*** 2019-2020 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[Maebea]

Just a follow-up question: how important is the interview overall before offering an acceptance? I enjoyed all my conversations with interviewers but find it hard to believe that they were that helpful to them.

Sent from my LM-Q720 using SDN mobile

I am not sure I understand the question. Assuming that you mean to ask how important the interviews are to the acceptance, I would say that they are pretty much everything. It is rare that we go back to the application or recommendation letters when it comes time to offer acceptances. About 60% of the applicants to our program end up in an MD-PhD, so when we invite someone we know that they are physician-scientist material. We interview 15-20% of the applicant pool, so the issue to be resolved is whether a candidate is a good fit for our program. The information gleaned from interviews with committee members informs that decision. (As noted above, the faculty interviews are usually not terribly insightful, but they can impact the decision, especially if the comments are relatively lukewarm.) The MD interview also plays a role, and every year there are one or two candidates we like who fall to a poor MD interview.

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[MSTPadvocate]

If we invite you for an interview, you are academically qualified. The interview is the most important part of the assessment in our mind. Are you resilient? Are you a leader? Can you explain your science and think on your feet? Will you add to our program? These are all crucial assessments that occur at the interview stage.

 

[shacoleblanconly]

Question for last year’s applicants: was NYU’s MSTP rolling admission when you applied? It looks like they accepted a lot all at once in January last year and none before that (per the SDN thread, which I know is not a complete picture), but this year they mentioned that they are rolling so I’m trying to get an idea of whether we could possibly hear earlier now.

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

As I sit here in silence reflecting on my application, it seems that the majority of MSTP programs have the same mission of producing physician-scientists and leaders in medicine, research, and academia. Therefore, for all the secondaries that asked "Why this school" I neglected to put anything like my explicit alignment with the mission statement because that's pretty much already answered in my primary MD/PhD Essays...was this a mistake? I focused more on specific factors, such as my desire to enter pediatrics and their pediatric program rankings/match rates, faculty research relevant to my interests, geographic location, etc.

 

[Sarasa Zebra]

As I sit here in silence reflecting on my application, it seems that the majority of MSTP programs have the same mission of producing physician-scientists and leaders in medicine, research, and academia. Therefore, for all the secondaries that asked "Why this school" I neglected to put anything like my explicit alignment with the mission statement because that's pretty much already answered in my primary MD/PhD Essays...was this a mistake? I focused more on specific factors, such as my desire to enter pediatrics and their pediatric program rankings/match rates, faculty research relevant to my interests, geographic location, etc.

I'm only an applicant, so take this with a grain of salt. I do think I might have something to say though, given how I have had some level of success with interview invites. You were being way too narrow-minded right there. First, every program has a pediatrics program they can brag about; pediatrics is nothing special about a program. Second, it's very rare for a program to want someone who is like, "When I was 5 years old, I knew I wanted to go into pediatric neurosurgery with a specialization in ___." As an MD-PhD applicant, it's not shallow to want to have a place with research that aligns with your interests. But it is a bit shallow to talk about rankings/matching rates. Like dude, you really should not worry about that right now. You really shot yourself in the foot for not making that the highlight of your "Why XYZ" essays.

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

I'm only an applicant, so take this with a grain of salt. I do think I might have something to say though, given how I have had some level of success with interview invites. You were being way too narrow-minded right there. First, every program has a pediatrics program they can brag about; pediatrics is nothing special about a program. Second, it's very rare for a program to want someone who is like, "When I was 5 years old, I knew I wanted to go into pediatric neurosurgery with a specialization in ___." As an MD-PhD applicant, it's not shallow to want to have a place with research that aligns with your interests. But it is a bit shallow to talk about rankings/matching rates. Like dude, you really should not worry about that right now. You really shot yourself in the foot for not making that the highlight of your "Why XYZ" essays.

If I may qualify, I suppose I'm not approaching the question as writing to make a "program to want someone" like me. When a school asks, "Why us?" I'm just trying to be honest in terms of what attracts me to their program, not why I am attractive to them. I believe the rest of the application process serves that purpose. My application heavily emphasizes my experiences with helping children and young adult populations, and when I say I am interested in pediatrics, it is not as specific as a speciality or subspecialty. I just like working with kids, and some programs have excellent children's hospitals where I can receive a good education. It also seems to me that programs really like to advertise their match rates, and I do think it's an important consideration to turn 8 years of training into actual results. Then may I ask besides my research interests, what doesn't seem shallow?

 

[Sarasa Zebra]

If I may qualify, I suppose I'm not approaching the question as writing to make a "program to want someone" like me. When a school asks, "Why us?" I'm just trying to be honest in terms of what attracts me to their program, not why I am attractive to them. I believe the rest of the application process serves that purpose. My application heavily emphasizes my experiences with helping children and young adult populations, and when I say I am interested in pediatrics, it is not as specific as a speciality or subspecialty. I just like working with kids, and some programs have excellent children's hospitals where I can receive a good education. It also seems to me that programs really like to advertise their match rates, and I do think it's an important consideration to turn 8 years of training into actual results. Then may I ask besides my research interests, what doesn't seem shallow?

Again, take this with a grain of salt.

From what I can tell, admissions committee members like to see people with a "focus." This should be apparent in your activities, perhaps your personal statement, etc. However, so many people change their minds when going into medical school. It's naive to think that you will only be doing pediatrics. It makes any person question, "Well, what if he figures out he likes something else? [More importantly] What if he realizes he can't do pediatrics, for some reason? Will he still want to go down this path?" Perhaps that's not how you come across as in your application, but you are at the burden of proving you are not that kind of person. And when you have so many qualified applications, that might be a dealbreaker. You can have a focus, but you need to show some level of flexibility.

I think you'll be fine. But I'm not necessarily sure if saying you want to go to XYZ place because XYZ program has Z% in match rates for pediatric subspecialties was the absolutely best idea. They advertise those numbers to get you to apply, but you show you're a fit for the program through other means. You should mention clinical fit with an MD-PhD program, but there are so many better ways of approaching that by restating what you can find on their websites.

 

[LTimeLearnerAmIRight]

Are accepted applicants typically all notified on the same day per interview schedule? I.e. if I can see that someone who interviewed alongside me on a particular date was notified of acceptance last week, and I have yet to hear anything, what is the appropriate level of dispair?

 

[EvoMed]

what is the appropriate level of dispair?

^^^ eloquent. So much of my digging on SDN is in search of the answer to this question

 

[shacoleblanconly]

^^^ eloquent. So much of my digging on SDN is in search of the answer to this question

Unfortunately I think the amount of despair is directly proportional to time spent on SDN

 

[heavymetal_celldeath]

Sup y'all. Late-cycle MSTP applicant here, slowly becoming more neurotic with each passing day, just wanted to pop in, say hi, and get in on the fun of this thread.

 

[Seihai]

Sup y'all. Late-cycle MSTP applicant here, slowly becoming more neurotic with each passing day, just wanted to pop in, say hi, and get in on the fun of this thread.

Run before you get sucked in.

 

[babykarat]

I took a two week break and felt pretty good. Then the radio silence from places with upcoming interviews started to get to me so I came back. I think the key is just to check in once a day rather than every 5 mins like I was before...

 

[deleted993768]

I took a two week break and felt pretty good. Then the radio silence from places with upcoming interviews started to get to me so I came back. I think the key is just to check in once a day rather than every 5 mins like I was before...

the radio silence has been killing me. I think I’m on week 3 now...

 

[babykarat]

I was in radio silence since Sep 21, but got slapped with that UCLA R this morning. I was happy just to get SOME news. Their PhD program was the worst fit for my field of interest, so not too bummed

 

[heavymetal_celldeath]

Yeah, I'm coming up on about 6 weeks since my first secondary was complete. Have not heard anything conclusive since 9/17 (my only II) and had a delightful pre-II hold email 10 days ago that has done nothing for nerves. Should probably start hearing back from the 9/7 complete schools soon, I hope! Among them, UCLA. When were you complete there, @babykarat ?

 

[babykarat]

Yeah, I'm coming up on about 6 weeks since my first secondary was complete. Have not heard anything conclusive since 9/17 (my only II) and had a delightful pre-II hold email 10 days ago that has done nothing for nerves. Should probably start hearing back from the 9/7 complete schools soon, I hope! Among them, UCLA. When were you complete there, @babykarat ?

I was complete July 18th at UCLA

 

[heavymetal_celldeath]

I was complete July 18th at UCLA

Oh, like a month before my primary was even verified. Darn. The wait continues!

 

[babykarat]

The order in which different programs review apps is definitely not chronological, don't worry. Timing obv does matter to a point, but it seems that schools sort people into different stacks of varying priority

 

[deleted998376]

Hey everyone, was wondering what y’all think about triaging interviews in my situation. I currently have 8 II, all from schools I’m extremely interested in except 1. The research at that school is not a good fit and it is considered low-tier for MD-PhD schools (non-MSTP, non-guaranteed funding during medical school).

This interview would require a 6+ hour drive, require me to miss 2 days of work (out of PTO), and I have a flight prescheduled out of my hometown for another interview two days later. While I don’t want to close any doors before I have an acceptance, the interview process has been long, and I’m not sure it’s worth it.

Should I cancel it? If I do, I want to ASAP so that they have time to invite someone else, but I’m hesitant because interviewing isn’t my strong suit and I don’t want to throw away another chance.

 

[narla_hotep]

@Elephant_enthusiast @heavymetal_celldeath Ok time to give some super anecdotal n=1 advice. I think it's pretty normal to have a ~2 month lag between being complete (secondaries and all) and receiving interview invites. Plus, the MSTP cycle often runs a lil bit slower than the MD cycle. Have heard that from others and that was the case for me as well. I was complete in early September, and aside from one early II from a school that didn't have secondaries (so to them, I was complete in July), I had no other interview invites till late October. Right around now, actually. Then I got like 4 invites all in the same week at the end of October, and then another lag period till about December when I got 3 more. They seem to come in waves as people review rounds of applications, and it sounds like my app was in an early round of review at the first few schools and in a late round of review at the next few. So don't despair, there is still hope!

@james_harden13 There's no hard and fast rule about how many interviews equal an acceptance, but if you have 8 interviews for MSTP that's a pretty high chance of getting at least one acceptance. MSTP programs don't throw out interview invites to everyone so if you have an II they're at least somewhat seriously considering you. I'd go with your gut on this, but if the school with the inconvenient interview is also the one you're least interested in, then go ahead and cancel, but do make sure to go to your other interviews. Like for me I think I had like 8 interviews, canceled a 9th, and got 3 A's (tho 1 was after a looong time on the waitlist after I'd basically already made up my mind to go to a diff school).

 

[Fencer]

Hey everyone, was wondering what y’all think about triaging interviews in my situation. I currently have 8 II, all from schools I’m extremely interested in except 1. The research at that school is not a good fit and it is considered low-tier for MD-PhD schools (non-MSTP, non-guaranteed funding during medical school).

This interview would require a 6+ hour drive, require me to miss 2 days of work (out of PTO), and I have a flight prescheduled out of my hometown for another interview two days later. While I don’t want to close any doors before I have an acceptance, the interview process has been long, and I’m not sure it’s worth it.

Should I cancel it? If I do, I want to ASAP so that they have time to invite someone else, but I’m hesitant because interviewing isn’t my strong suit and I don’t want to throw away another chance.

Cancel ASAP. Tell them that you have found a program that better suits your scientific needs. It opens a slot for interview of your potential peers.

 

[narla_hotep]

Ok cool, I'm glad an actual MSTP director agrees with me

 

[deleted998376]

Thanks, @Fencer @narla_hotep for your input. I just withdrew my application from the school. Hopefully, someone gets some good news in the coming days because of it.

 

[deleted1013395]

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the major differences between MD/PhD interviews and MD interviews? Obviously MD/PhD interviews are more research focused and require you to articulate your motivation for pursuing an MD/PhD, etc., but does anyone have other insight that might not be as obvious?

I've had several MD interviews but am just getting started on the MD/PhD interview trail and would love any and all advice! Thanks in advance!

 

[narla_hotep]

I agree MD/PhD interviews tend to be more research focused. Some schools have only the research focused interviews, while others have a mix of traditional MD interviews and research interviews. For the research interviews, expect to be asked to talk about your previous research and occasionally answer nitpicky questions about it, and also to listen to the interviewer talk about their own research (which is nice because then you get to take a breather from answering questions).

Another thing I've noticed is that MD/PhD interview days tend to be longer than regular MD only interviews, and have more structure to them. For example, at one school I did an MD only interview and it was just one day and there wasn't much to do in between my 2 interviews. At MSTP interviews, they could take 2 days or occasionally even 2.5 days, with some of that time being interviews and some of it being activities like dinner with students, receptions with faculty, tours, etc. I know some MD interview days have this kind of stuff too but MSTP seems to do more of it. It's nice because you can learn more about the school and have some free food, but is also exhausting to be 'on' and trying to impress people for so long.

 

[mdphd_applicant]

Totally agree with @narla_hotep that it's hard to be "on" for so long during the interviews. I straight up got so tired that I wasn't able to perform at 100% near the end of the day for many interviews. I think the interviewers understand bcs they always comment that the MD-PhDs are over-scheduled or the like.

 

[VioletAdventuring]

For those of you traveling to schools that offered accommodations (either a hotel room or staying with current students) for interviews, did you receive details about where you were staying before arriving at the school? And if so, how far in advance? I have my first group of interviews coming up in early November. For all of them, I signed up for accommodations, exchanged emails with the coordinator, etc. when I first received the invite, since I'm traveling from a fair distance. I haven't heard anything since then and the first one is about a week away now. Am I missing something? Should I reach out? Or should I just be patient and wait?

 

[deleted993768]

For those of you traveling to schools that offered accommodations (either a hotel room or staying with current students) for interviews, did you receive details about where you were staying before arriving at the school? And if so, how far in advance? I have my first group of interviews coming up in early November. For all of them, I signed up for accommodations, exchanged emails with the coordinator, etc. when I first received the invite, since I'm traveling from a fair distance. I haven't heard anything since then and the first one is about a week away now. Am I missing something? Should I reach out? Or should I just be patient and wait?

For all my interviews I got all the info the beginning of the week since most of my interviews started on Wed or Thurs.

So generally like 3-4 days before.

 

[babykarat]

In his response to my thank you letter, a program director at an institution I really liked told me that "I look forward to seeing you in the near future."

Eirher he was tired and didn't realize what that implies, or I got an early notice of admission??? This is too much!

 

[babykarat]

One can hope!

 

[deleted1005053]

Seeking an opinion — I’m fortunate enough to have had invitations to interview at some top programs, so I know that there is nothing alarming with my application. I am, however, still waiting to hear back from programs, in particular two in my home town that are amongst my top choices (bc of program fit and location)... is it worth sending an update? I started a full time research position for my gap year in July, so it didn’t make it onto my primary and only barely into my secondaries. I could update them on what I’ve been doing, which includes preparation of a patent for some of the stuff I’ve been working on. Just don’t know if it’s futile at this point, as I’m sure many invitations have already gone out.

 

[Fencer]

... I’m fortunate enough to have had invitations to interview at some top programs, so I know that there is nothing alarming with my application. ..

... waiting to hear back from programs, in particular two in my home town that are amongst my top choices (bc of program fit and location)... is it worth sending an update? I started a full time research position for my gap year in July, so it didn’t make it onto my primary ...

Absolutely... update all programs that have not rejected you. Make it into a truly personalized email indicating your fit into the program, and name 3-5 potential mentors (make sure that each is funded, and has PhD students, preferably MD/PhD students). Unless you are told by the program, an email of interest every other month or so is welcomed, particularly if there is a substantive improvement (i.e.: manuscript or poster presentation and/or acceptance, or coursework completed with grades).

 

[babykarat]

Absolutely... update all programs that have not rejected you. Make it into a truly personalized email indicating your fit into the program, and name 3-5 potential mentors (make sure that each is funded, and has PhD students, preferably MD/PhD students). Unless you are told by the program, an email of interest every other month or so is welcomed, particularly if there is a substantive improvement (i.e.: manuscript or poster presentation and/or acceptance, or coursework completed with grades).

Would it be appropriate to ask for a status update on your application? I was planning on saying (1) what research I've been up to since July, (2) what I still like about their program, (3) which faculty I want to meet

 

[931kra]

Has anybody heard back from MUSC since they sent that email earlier in the summer saying they received way more apps than they expected and would get back to us in October (other than a small number who got IIs then)? It’s nearing the end of the month and I’m getting curious about when they’re going to send out the rest of their IIs~~

 

[apple2817]

Does yield protection apply for MSTPs as well? If so, are there schools well known to do so? I know this process is random and that high stats aren't everything but just wondering in general

 

[Fencer]

Would it be appropriate to ask for a status update on your application? I was planning on saying (1) what research I've been up to since July, (2) what I still like about their program, (3) which faculty I want to meet

Yes ... you get an email as often as every 8 weeks or so.

 

[Fencer]

The Nov. 1st MD/PhD Program Application deadline is looming soon... Make a decision to add schools if you have received less than 5-6 interviews. This is possibly your last shot this cycle for realistically adding schools for potential interviews. Although it only takes one school to accept you to join the fraternity of physician-scientists, ideally, you want to have at least 2 or 3 acceptances to optimize your fit with the program regarding the area of your research interest, geographical region, and/or other factors. If you only have 2 or 3 interviews, you might end up empty handed at the end of this cycle. PM me if you need to discuss.

 

[EvoMed]

The Nov. 1st MD/PhD Program Application deadline is looming soon... Make a decision to add schools if you have received less than 5-6 interviews. This is possibly your last shot this cycle for realistically adding schools for potential interviews. Although it only takes one school to accept you to join the fraternity of physician-scientists, ideally, you want to have at least 2 or 3 acceptances to optimize your fit with the program regarding the area of your research interest, geographical region, and/or other factors. If you only have 2 or 3 interviews, you might end up empty handed at the end of this cycle. PM me if you need to discuss.

Thanks for the wake-up call. Applied dangerously narrowly, so I've been feeling ok with no Rs and 2 IIs.... But I needed this reminder to get in an additional 3-5 apps in the coming days....

 

[deleted993768]

At what point should I be worried about not receiving any response from a school about interview invite decisions?

I submitted early July and have received decisions from 2/3 of my schools, but with the application deadline coming up I figured they would have already looked at my application and are waiting to see if there are better fish in the sea about to submit.

So wasn't sure if it was worth while asking schools for an application status without any updates to report.

 

[Fencer]

If we go by the INVITE thread, you have been quite successful getting invitations to Interview. As I have indicated, an email of interest (even without any major updates) can still be helpful. After all, you would be at least affirming that you are continuing your research experiences since early July, when you submitted your primary. It is likely that you were kept in the HOLD pool of applicants for some of those schools and use your application as metric to compare to potential "better fish in the sea".

 

[Maebea]

Does yield protection apply for MSTPs as well? If so, are there schools well known to do so? I know this process is random and that high stats aren't everything but just wondering in general

I can understand a program's decision to use yield protection if for no other reason than it saves a lot of time, effort, and resources. My program abandoned yield protection 15 years ago when a new dean said that they wanted us to go after the best applicants, even if it resulted in a 5% yield. To compensate for the lower yield, we increased our interview slots by 40%. We get a lot more decline of admissions offers than we used to, but we manage to hit our interview target each year by pulling 1 or 2 applicants off the waitlist.

 

[heavymetal_celldeath]

Interested in some thoughts here: My big paper from undergrad was just submitted this morning. I've still yet to hear back from 8 of the 12 schools I applied to, but I'd have to imagine some of the II decisions are coming rather soon. Should I wait to send updates until we hear from the journal about whether it will be sent for review? Or should I send update statements now based purely on the submission?

The logic here being that anyone can ~submit~ a paper to *insert journal name here* and not all papers will be sent for review, but also that I probably am limited on time if I want to get this update out to programs before they chop me.

 

[Fencer]

@mdphd_applicant
Congratulations on your multiple interviews! It is very likely that you will join a MD/PhD training program and have several choices. However, if you completed 37 secondaries and only received 7 interviews at this point, you are likely not the "Ivy Perfect" applicant, which explains their hesitation. If you know the PD or one of the APDs, reach out to one of them in a one-to-one manner. It is not likely that they will reply in writing to you with your true status, but might be hinted or disclosed in a one-to-one meeting. Before you do that, send the substantive update with interest in their MSTP and let a week or two pass by to give you a last chance of potential interview. They might have you as the filling slot for a cancellation.
Good luck!

 

[mtoboggan]

Would an accepted publication with low authorship (5th) be worth updating schools on at this point? It was not listed on my primary, but I mentioned it as a submitted manuscript on secondaries where appropriate. I have received a handful of interviews to "mid-tier" programs but no luck from top schools and still have yet to hear back from about 60% of the programs I applied to. I know a handful of those programs only interview into December though, so I'm not sure if interview slots to those are already full.

 

[mdphd_applicant]

@mdphd_applicant
Congratulations on your multiple interviews! It is very likely that you will join a MD/PhD training program and have several choices. However, if you completed 37 secondaries and only received 7 interviews at this point, you are likely not the "Ivy Perfect" applicant, which explains their hesitation. If you know the PD or one of the APDs, reach out to one of them in a one-to-one manner. It is not likely that they will reply in writing to you with your true status, but might be hinted or disclosed in a one-to-one meeting. Before you do that, send the substantive update with interest in their MSTP and let a week or two pass by to give you a last chance of potential interview. They might have you as the filling slot for a cancellation.
Good luck!

Thank you for your advice! I know I have a weaker MCAT relative to my peers who are applying, and that is why I applied (very) broadly. I will be reaching out and hopefully get more clarity.

 

[lazypanda1]

Any applicant to UNC's MD/PhD program have their application status change on their portal (pre II)? Mine changed pre-II but haven't heard from them yet

 

[shacoleblanconly]

Any applicant to UNC's MD/PhD program have their application status change on their portal (pre II)? Mine changed pre-II but haven't heard from them yet

What did the status change to? I am not sure what mine said beforehand but today it shows "awaiting decision."

 

[lazypanda1]

What did the status change to? I am not sure what mine said beforehand but today it shows "awaiting decision."

It says “decided”

 

[icedcoffee1]

Quick question on the proper protocol for submitting application updates. Which is preferred: sending update to general program email, sending update directly to the MSTP director, or uploading update documentation on the application portal?

Some schools have a space to upload documents on the portal but don't list application update as an option and I want to be sure the update is seen and reviewed.