2020 FM Physicians - what do you earn?

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How many patients do you see on average?
For phone / video consults, I can generally do around 8 per hour.
The workflow for doing telemedicine for a 3rd party company is different than doing telemedicine visits for your own clinic patients and submitting a CPT code, and charges to insurance though. All I need to do is a SOAP note and sign off

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For phone / video consults, I can generally do around 8 per hour.
The workflow for doing telemedicine for a 3rd party company is different than doing telemedicine visits for your own clinic patients and submitting a CPT code, and charges to insurance though. All I need to do is a SOAP note and sign off
Wow that's about 1 patient every 7.5 minutes. What kinds of conditions are you managing by and large?
 
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Wow that's about 1 patient every 7.5 minutes. What kinds of conditions are you managing by and large?
Triaging whether someone needs to see PCP, go to UC, or ER. Refill albuterol, temporary refill of BP medication while they try to get in to PCP, sinus infection. yeast infection, uncomplicated UTI, URI vs COVID, flu, rashes. Pretty typical low level urgent care or acute care type problems. Anything not appropriate for virtual care gets recommended to in-person care (and you still get compensated for it even if you don't actively treat or manage it and just recommend pt be seen in person)

Then there are specialized telemedicine platforms: sexual health, mental health, women's health, etc.
 
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How do you gain access to these platforms and they don't employ you?

I just used google and linked in to search for telemedicine jobs.
The one I'm doing now is a "specialized" place and just deals with one broad category of things. I literally found it by googling and then emailed them to see if they were hiring.
I was also hired for a more general telemedicine company, but I decided to quit before I started because I'm too busy doing other stuff.
So yeah overall just searching around and word of mouth is how you can get in to telemedicine. You're a 1099 employee in my experience.
 
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I just used google and linked in to search for telemedicine jobs.
The one I'm doing now is a "specialized" place and just deals with one broad category of things. I literally found it by googling and then emailed them to see if they were hiring.
I was also hired for a more general telemedicine company, but I decided to quit before I started because I'm too busy doing other stuff.
So yeah overall just searching around and word of mouth is how you can get in to telemedicine. You're a 1099 employee in my experience.

What are the requirements? Must you be boarded in that specialty to do it? Can you consult with patients overseas?
 
What are the requirements? Must you be boarded in that specialty to do it? Can you consult with patients overseas?
You can only see patients that are located in a state where you have a licence to practice in.

Most telemedicine companies will want you to be board certified.

Their requirements for which specialty will likely be dependent on what they're looking for. I.E an urgent care telemed platform may want ER, IM, or FM board certification. A mental health telemed company may want psych, IM, or FM, etc.
 
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What are the requirements? Must you be boarded in that specialty to do it? Can you consult with patients overseas?

I think most of the places I looked up said board certified or board eligible in family medicine.
As far as I know, no you can't consult patients that are living overseas. You have to have a medical license for the state the person is in that you're treating.
 
I think most of the places I looked up said board certified or board eligible in family medicine.
As far as I know, no you can't consult patients that are living overseas. You have to have a medical license for the state the person is in that you're treating.
I know this is still in its infancy but have they started getting into BC specialists like Onc or Cards telehealth? To me that would be quite good.
 
Is Family Med in such demand that most job offers have some sort of loan repayment as part of their compensation package (even in suburban/metro areas) or is that still usually something you’ll only find in the rural areas?
 
Is Family Med in such demand that most job offers have some sort of loan repayment as part of their compensation package (even in suburban/metro areas) or is that still usually something you’ll only find in the rural areas?
I was offered some loan repayment and sign on bonuses in both rural and cities. I chose rural because that’s where we wanted to live. $75,000 combined loan repayment and sign on bonus. I can’t remember what the city offers were. In a rural setting you’re immensely more valuable to the community and they want you happy.
 
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I was offered some loan repayment and sign on bonuses in both rural and cities. I chose rural because that’s where we wanted to live. $75,000 combined loan repayment and sign on bonus. I can’t remember what the city offers were. In a rural setting you’re immensely more valuable to the community and they want you happy.
True. I definitely figured rural would have higher incentives. I just wasnt sure if it was common for more populous cities to offer loan repayment/sign on bonuses at all.
 
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I’m IM but Keep it coming but if I don’t decide to specialize (thinking pccm or palliative) gonna do some RPC. Keep up the motivation lol. Does anyone think one could do some palliative mixed in with primary care and make it work ?

looking to work in south East not picky about location
 
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I’m IM but Keep it coming but if I don’t decide to specialize (thinking pccm or palliative) gonna do some RPC. Keep up the motivation lol. Does anyone think one could do some palliative mixed in with primary care and make it work ?

looking to work in south East not picky about location
If you do the palliative fellowship, I can get you a job the day you graduate in upstate SC (my hospital is starting a palliative care fellowship in the next 1-2 years and they want attendings who also do a fair bit of clinical work).

You can also get an outpatient IM job right now and might be able to do weekends at our hospice house sans fellowship.
 
If you do the palliative fellowship, I can get you a job the day you graduate in upstate SC (my hospital is starting a palliative care fellowship in the next 1-2 years and they want attendings who also do a fair bit of clinical work).

You can also get an outpatient IM job right now and might be able to do weekends at our hospice house sans fellowship.
I’m just an intern but if I end up on the palliative bus I may look into that. I enjoy palliative but wouldn’t completely leave general medicine for it. Spent too much time memorizing the things to just not use them.
 
I’m IM but Keep it coming but if I don’t decide to specialize (thinking pccm or palliative) gonna do some RPC. Keep up the motivation lol. Does anyone think one could do some palliative mixed in with primary care and make it work ?

looking to work in south East not picky about location
One staff at my hospital is the main medical director of the main hospice in our area and also has some clinic time periodically through the week. She'll get paged throughout the day and field hospice stuff, but otherwise finds it very manageable. Other attendings spend their time on and off on the hospice/palliative service in the hospital with other time spent in their primary specialty (EM shifts or IM clinic or IM inpatient/ICU). I think you could definitely make both a PC clinic and hospice/palliative work.
 
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Does doing more OB typically increase or decrease pay?
 
Does doing more OB typically increase or decrease pay?
Increase pay but also increase stress, work hours, risk, and malpractice among other things —> not worth it to say the least
 
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If you do the palliative fellowship, I can get you a job the day you graduate in upstate SC (my hospital is starting a palliative care fellowship in the next 1-2 years and they want attendings who also do a fair bit of clinical work).

You can also get an outpatient IM job right now and might be able to do weekends at our hospice house sans fellowship.
do you think one could do something like 3 days of primary care clinic per week then 2 of palliative or something like that plus hospital consults/hospice work? I think something like that would be nice If i dont do PCCM. I do not mind working 50-60 hours per week
 
do you think one could do something like 3 days of primary care clinic per week then 2 of palliative or something like that plus hospital consults/hospice work? I think something like that would be nice If i dont do PCCM. I do not mind working 50-60 hours per week
No idea, my knowledge of how our palliative care schedule works is exceptionally limited. I suspect it depends on how much they want to have someone else on the schedule.

I know a residency classmate of mine was seeing patients four days a week and covering several weekends per month for the hospitals' hospice house.
 
Does doing more OB typically increase or decrease pay?

Like said above, it increases the pay but not as much as one would expect and (in my opinion) not nearly enough to justify the stress and effort required.
 
Like said above, it increases the pay but not as much as one would expect and (in my opinion) not nearly enough to justify the stress and effort required.
Im currently a second year but very interested in doing some OB in a family medicine practice. I would like to be able to incorporate deliveries & not sure if c-sections would be possible. If someone enjoys it is it worth it? Im a little worried about all the liability you take on as well..
 
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Im currently a second year but very interested in doing some OB in a family medicine practice. I would like to be able to incorporate deliveries & not sure if c-sections would be possible. If someone enjoys it is it worth it? Im a little worried about all the liability you take on as well..

I mean, that's the key question isn't it? Keep in mind I'm but a smooth-brained intern, but I figure just about anything you choose to do with your career revolves around this. There are TONS of FM docs that do OB and I'm sure they do so with their own reasoning.

Don't let my crustiness pop your balloon. If you want to do OB as an FM doc, rest assured there are plenty of options. Get to know The List well for your future application season:
 
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Is Family Med in such demand that most job offers have some sort of loan repayment as part of their compensation package (even in suburban/metro areas) or is that still usually something you’ll only find in the rural areas?
This is a good question.
There is the economic demand of a job which will pressure companies into offering loan repayment and you will see that.

There is also government sponsored loan repayment.
The federal government offers each state up to a 1:1 match dollar for dollar up to 100K from federal (and additional 100K from the state if they wish to match that much) for Family Medicine, Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, Psychiatry, Ob/GYN, and Geriatrics.
Each state decides how much they want to match and for how many years. Typical max is 50k loan forgiveness per year. (though this is tax free)
The is typically offered in areas of high need/shortage areas which can be rural or urban.
This is how a lot of FQHCs recruit.
 
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This is a good question.
There is the economic demand of a job which will pressure companies into offering loan repayment and you will see that.

There is also government sponsored loan repayment.
The federal government offers each state up to a 1:1 match dollar for dollar up to 100K from federal (and additional 100K from the state if they wish to match that much) for Family Medicine, Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, Psychiatry, Ob/GYN, and Geriatrics.
Each state decides how much they want to match and for how many years. Typical max is 50k loan forgiveness per year. (though this is tax free)
The is typically offered in areas of high need/shortage areas which can be rural or urban.
This is how a lot of FQHCs recruit.

I got a very generous loan repayment with an FQHC I worked at but it's a very strenuous job. I don't know if they are all like this but the one I worked at was very disorganized, we had double booked patient slots, 30% of our patients were new or barely known to us. Things just didn't work. Computers, the EMR, the electricity, the otoscopes would stop working. And so on and so forth.

Comparing the FQHC pay with the loan repayment it was similar in pay to a good set up in a RVU based job I found after working at the FQHC. Your experience may vary but I do not recommend working at an FQHC unless you know there is low turnover or that the work conditions are bearable.

Somebody posted on SDN that they worked at an FQHC seeing 2 patients an hour. My experience was vastly different and I won't work at another FQHC in the future.
 
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Can anyone comment on current job market for graduating residents? Do you generally have your pick for location, even in saturated cities like in CA? Trying to compare to the dumpster fire that's apparently the EM market rn.
 
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Can anyone comment on current job market for graduating residents? Do you generally have your pick for location, even in saturated cities like in CA? Trying to compare to the dumpster fire that's apparently the EM market rn.
I can't speak to the super desirable places like SD, LA, SF, or NYC but here in SC every single city of note is hiring for multiple physicians with the possible exception of Charleston.
 
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Can anyone comment on current job market for graduating residents? Do you generally have your pick for location, even in saturated cities like in CA? Trying to compare to the dumpster fire that's apparently the EM market rn.

I’m on the east coast so can’t speak to CA, but yes, no problems finding jobs. I’m most familiar with Philly, NYC, Washington DC and a few large cities in TX that friends had multiple interviews and jobs to pick from. Lots of hiring.

FM/primary care won’t ever be like EM since they’re essentially tied to working in the ED or urgent care. There are so many practice settings that FM can work in that unless the whole health care industry collapses, we should be able to find jobs.

I still get recruiting calls/texts a couple of times per week.
 
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In New York City colleagues are getting lots of interviews/job offers. Though no one I know of is celebrating the pay, lower than the median (this is first job out of residency). I have noticed, speaking with attendings out ~3-5 years, that there is a lot of turnover in some places.
 
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I got a very generous loan repayment with an FQHC I worked at but it's a very strenuous job. I don't know if they are all like this but the one I worked at was very disorganized, we had double booked patient slots, 30% of our patients were new or barely known to us. Things just didn't work. Computers, the EMR, the electricity, the otoscopes would stop working. And so on and so forth.

Comparing the FQHC pay with the loan repayment it was similar in pay to a good set up in a RVU based job I found after working at the FQHC. Your experience may vary but I do not recommend working at an FQHC unless you know there is low turnover or that the work conditions are bearable.

Somebody posted on SDN that they worked at an FQHC seeing 2 patients an hour. My experience was vastly different and I won't work at another FQHC in the future.
How much of this did you know going in for that FQHC? What would you have done differently to become aware of those things while applying?

The few FQHCs I'm familiar with have a similar setup to what you describe, which is why I was surprised when the 30 min time slots were mentioned.
 
I was offered some loan repayment and sign on bonuses in both rural and cities. I chose rural because that’s where we wanted to live. $75,000 combined loan repayment and sign on bonus. I can’t remember what the city offers were. In a rural setting you’re immensely more valuable to the community and they want you happy.
How long do you have to work that job to get the loan repayment/sign on bonus?
 
How long do you have to work that job to get the loan repayment/sign on bonus?
3 years. The sign on bonus was immediate and the loan repayment is paid monthly. If I leave prior to 3 years I’d have to pay it back. I’ll be at three years in august, I’m planning on staying. Another city had a 100,000 sign on bonus but they paid much less of a guarantee. Like $50,000 less and they wouldn’t give me average salaries of new physicians or tell me cost of partner buy in. The cost of living was also much higher.
 
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3 years. The sign on bonus was immediate and the loan repayment is paid monthly. If I leave prior to 3 years I’d have to pay it back. I’ll be at three years in august, I’m planning on staying. Another city had a 100,000 sign on bonus but they paid much less of a guarantee. Like $50,000 less and they wouldn’t give me average salaries of new physicians or tell me cost of partner buy in. The cost of living was also much higher.

I wonder why recruiters/groups do this. They must not struggle finding hires who don't mind the red flags/really need the job or they are REALLY afraid to show what they're hiding.
 
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I wonder why recruiters/groups do this. They must not struggle finding hires who don't mind the red flags/really need the job or they are REALLY afraid to show what they're hiding.
Exactly, its probably a horrible deal or horrible management. Some people genuinely don't know what new hires get because their books are a mess or they don't retain new hires enough to know this info (i.e. revolving door where people are usually there less than a year), or they're not interested in people buying in. Red flags are red flags for a reason.
 
Anyone here covers nursing homes (NH)?

Let's say you have privileges at 3 NH (total 20-25 patients)... How much can you expect to make every month?

I just wanna have a flexible side gig and use that money just to pay my student (expecting payment to be ~3k/month)...
 
Anyone here covers nursing homes (NH)?

Let's say you have privileges at 3 NH (total 20-25 patients)... How much can you expect to make every month?

I just wanna have a flexible side gig and use that money just to pay my student (expecting payment to be ~3k/month)...
I've had a couple FM docs ask me about this since SAR work is pretty lucrative for PM&R. From what I understand, the major hindrance to this is that the primary in SNF's (usually FM or IM) can only round on the patients once per month. PM&R can round twice per week. You can probably estimate the gross collections based off the link below:

 
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Anyone here covers nursing homes (NH)?

Let's say you have privileges at 3 NH (total 20-25 patients)... How much can you expect to make every month?

I just wanna have a flexible side gig and use that money just to pay my student (expecting payment to be ~3k/month)...
I do but I don’t know how much I generate. Right now during covid it’s not a lot. None of the patients or families want them in the nursing home. My census is a 7 maybe. It was previously over 20. It is nice that it lets me be able to do a 4 day work week. I see my patients every 60 days at least but also them in between if something comes up.
 
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I do but I don’t know how much I generate. Right now during covid it’s not a lot. None of the patients or families want them in the nursing home. My census is a 7 maybe. It was previously over 20. It is nice that it lets me be able to do a 4 day work week. I see my patients every 60 days at least but also them in between if something comes up.
I have a 4 day clinic work week and one day a week of the 5 day week is nursing home.
 
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Does anyone have the Family Medicine MGMA 75th percentile wRVU productivity number for 2020 (based on 2019 data)? I know for 2018 it was 5,925 but that number has probably changed a bit.

Also, when does the 2021 MGMA report come out?
 
Awesome thread, thank you to everyone for sharing your numbers and experiences.

I'm curious if anyone reading this works in Direct Primary Care and what the compensation/hours are like.
 
^ same question. Can you make 250k without being on telephone call for 24 hours?
 
^ same question. Can you make 250k without being on telephone call for 24 hours?
Only solo providers I would think are on direct call 24 hours a day. I share call between all the other doctors in my practice. I don’t make that amount currently but I think it’ll be close once I’m a partner but still waiting to see financials and how things hash out with covid.
 
Only solo providers I would think are on direct call 24 hours a day. I share call between all the other doctors in my practice. I don’t make that amount currently but I think it’ll be close once I’m a partner but still waiting to see financials and how things hash out with covid.
I think it was a DPC specific question
 
Awesome thread, thank you to everyone for sharing your numbers and experiences.

I'm curious if anyone reading this works in Direct Primary Care and what the compensation/hours are like.
^ same question. Can you make 250k without being on telephone call for 24 hours?
A full DPC practice should gross a doctor about 225-250k/year gross.

Call depends on the area but basically you do need to be available for your patients 24/7. I know of some DPC doctors whose solution to that was have their answering machine message talk about going to an ER and urgent care for anything that could not wait until the morning. I would not be comfortable with that personally.

But, you do not have to be available for anything patients want all the time. You could make it clear when they join your practice that after hours phone calls are for urgent and emergent matters only. Usually patients understand those boundaries.
 
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PGY3. Signed a contract on the east coast, urban setting. 220k guarantee for 2yrs, then rvu/quality metrics w/ base afterward. 100k retention over 5yrs. Sign on bonus. Will be working 4 days a week. 90 patients a week before I start hitting my bonus structure.
 
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PGY3. Signed a contract on the east coast, urban setting. 220k guarantee for 2yrs, then rvu/quality metrics w/ base afterward. 100k retention over 5yrs. Sign on bonus. Will be working 4 days a week. 90 patients a week before I start hitting my bonus structure.
This sounds like a good deal. Outpatient has better deal than inpatient.

Just signed a contract as well but it's inpatient (hospitalist) 7 days on/off. 330k/yr guarantee with no incentive, 30k sign on. Small city SE (~60k people) with a major airport 1h45 mins away. Average daily census 16-20 with 1-2 admits.

I am IM, and I know this thread is for FM but the two specialties are similar. The place I signed in has some FM hospitalists on the group.
 
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I moved up to Canada 13 years ago after residency.
Right now I’m making about 450k (CAD) = 360k USD. I make about 123k with full benefits, db pension, and 6 weeks vacation at workers comp doing occ med, 80k with benefits and pension doing administrative stuff and teaching for an FM residency program. These two jobs are mostly work from home. In my private practice I bill patients, the government insurance plan, and WCB and other third parties for about 220k a year after expenses. This goes in my Corp which gets taxed at 15% for incomes less than 500k. I make about 30k in dividend income. This excludes any capital gains in my stocks.
taxes are not bad here considering I don’t have to pay for health insurance (my last year in the US back in the mid 2000s I was paying almost 2k a month for health insurance), have full benefits, feel comfortable sending my kids to public school etc.
work life balance is great. I’m 41 and I’ve achieved all my financial goals since my mid 30s. Net worth is at 4.5m. Partner is stay at home parent.
 
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I moved up to Canada 13 years ago after residency.
Right now I’m making about 450k (CAD) = 360k USD. I make about 123k with full benefits, db pension, and 6 weeks vacation at workers comp doing occ med, 80k with benefits and pension doing administrative stuff and teaching for an FM residency program. These two jobs are mostly work from home. In my private practice I bill patients, the government insurance plan, and WCB and other third parties for about 220k a year after expenses. This goes in my Corp which gets taxed at 15% for incomes less than 500k. I make about 30k in dividend income. This excludes any capital gains in my stocks.
taxes are not bad here considering I don’t have to pay for health insurance (my last year in the US back in the mid 2000s I was paying almost 2k a month for health insurance), have full benefits, feel comfortable sending my kids to public school etc.
work life balance is great. I’m 41 and I’ve achieved all my financial goals since my mid 30s. Net worth is at 4.5m. Partner is stay at home parent.
Is this rural canada or a big city? Thats awesome!
 
Is this rural canada or a big city? Thats awesome!
Big city. Expensive to live in in terms of gas, about 6.30/gallon CAD (we drive a Tesla and bike everywhere as a result, so not a big deal for us). Electricity is cheap about 9.4 cents per KWH. Housing is also expensive but on par with cities like SF, LA, etc. property taxes are ridiculously low (7200 a year on a house worth 2.5m). Food isn’t cheap either… a dozen organic eggs will run you 6-7 bucks CAD, organic Milk about 8-9 bucks for 4 L (3.78 L in a gallon). A chipotle burrito bowl runs about 15 bucks but I haven’t been to a US chipotle in a long time so not sure how much it is back stateside.
 
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