23 or below MCAT score ?

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sonofva said:
how so?
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I was about to say, there is more relative and biological material on the USMLE step 1, 2 etc than on the MCAT. I have no problem with biology it's just the dam math, physics and chemistry. I took the SAT subject test in biology and scored a 610 (without taking AP bio btw and it was 2 years after my bio course ended). Also I've been told by doctors that they remembered the MCAT to be much harder than any test they took afterwards. Bottom line is that the MCAT is a poor predictor of your success in med school
 
Columbia09 said:
I was about to say, there is more relative and biological material on the USMLE step 1, 2 etc than on the MCAT. I have no problem with biology it's just the dam math, physics and chemistry. I took the SAT subject test in biology and scored a 610 (without taking AP bio btw and it was 2 years after my bio course ended). Also I've been told by doctors that they remembered the MCAT to be much harder than any test they took afterwards. Bottom line is that the MCAT is a poor predictor of your success in med school
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both tests want to see if you can solve problems and interpret information that you've never seen before with only a basic fund of knowledge. you don't have to be a physics whiz to do well on the physical sciences portion of the MCAT, you just have to have a basic foundation of the subject matter and good reasoning/deduction skills.

same thing with the boards, although the definition/depth of the term "basic foundation"changes slightly once you reach medical school.
 
i would also say, from what i've seen, that the people who struggled on standardized tests prior to medical school continued to struggle on them throughout their medical school career. so maybe the mcat is somewhat a predictor of medical school success?
 
sonofva said:
i would also say, from what i've seen, that the people who struggled on standardized tests prior to medical school continued to struggle on them throughout their medical school career. so maybe the mcat is somewhat a predictor of medical school success?
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I highly doubt it but again it depends on the person. You know some people would say if you scored in the 400 zone on each of the sections of the SAT or if you got anything below a 21 on the ACT, you shouldn't even consider med school because of the whole standardize test thing. But there is just so much difference between these tests and so much time between them that the ACT/SAT becomes irrelevant
 
Columbia09 said:
I highly doubt it but again it depends on the person. You know some people would say if you scored in the 400 zone on each of the sections of the SAT or if you got anything below a 21 on the ACT, you shouldn't even consider med school because of the whole standardize test thing. But there is just so much difference between these tests and so much time between them that the ACT/SAT becomes irrelevant
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You can doubt it all you want, it doesn't ignore the fact that the MCAT is correlated at least to a weak to moderate degree to performance on the USMLE Step 1. If you're unable to successfully prepare and study for a standardized test then you'll probably have difficulty in medical school. That being said, you just need to figure out what you did wrong and fix it and attack the mcat again and score decently.

And I understand your position myself, physics and chemistry aren't my forte either, but giving up and settling for a substandard score isn't the answer. Hell, I scored well above you and I still plan to retake it.
 
If you're Asian, general bio major from a mid-tier university, no. If anything, you should retake the MCAT, get work/volunteer/research experience.
 
sonofva said:
i would also say, from what i've seen, that the people who struggled on standardized tests prior to medical school continued to struggle on them throughout their medical school career. so maybe the mcat is somewhat a predictor of medical school success?
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I would say that people who do well on the mcat probably tend to do well on Step 1, but people who don't do as well on the mcat are not necessarily going to do poorly on Step 1. Step one is mostly memorization that you must apply to clinical situations. MCAT is much less memorization and mostly critical thinking. If you do better on exams with memorization and understanding, Step 1 would be better for you than the MCAT. Personally, in taking the MCAT numerous times and currently being in a SMP that gives exam questions in the Step 1 style, I know I can handle Step 1 much better than the MCAT. Yes it will be tons of information and will be difficult, but not as difficult as the MCAT was for me. I don't want people to think if you do poorly on the MCAT that you will definitely do better on Step 1 because that is not always the case; however I also dont want people to think that because they struggle with the MCAT that Step 1 will be exactly the same experience.
 
Columbia09 said:
Has anyone here gotten into a D.O school with a 23 or below MCAT score and it doesn't count if you're an URM.
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If you have lower scores, try increasing your volunteer, research, patient care, EC hours. It's not always about the scores (although it usually is) :laugh:
Good luck! 😀
 
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23 is not that bad. There are several DO schools with MCAT averages of 25-26 (VCOM, LMU, WCU, WVSOM, KYCOM, KCUMB, PNWU, and likely the 3 new schools). I'm sure there are plenty students attending them with 22-23 MCAT scores.
 
What are the three new schools and are those schools you listed state schools?
 
Columbia09 said:
What are the three new schools and are those schools you listed state schools?
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WVSOM is.


user3 said:
23 is not that bad. There are several DO schools with MCAT averages of 25-26 (VCOM, LMU, WCU, WVSOM, KYCOM, KCUMB, PNWU, and likely the 3 new schools). I'm sure there are plenty students attending them with 22-23 MCAT scores.
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I pray in two years you're not telling us all that a 425 on the COMLEX is not that bad either.
 
Columbia09 said:
The COMPLEX? I thought it was the USMLE step 1 and 2
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The USMLE is the licensing exam for MD schools, the COMLEX is the exam for DO students. Although DO students are eligible to sit for the USMLE...

also, WVSOM is not a new school, per se.
 
Columbia09 said:
The COMPLEX? I thought it was the USMLE step 1 and 2
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COMLEX is the exam. There is no P. The COMLEX is the required board exam for DO students. USMLE is required for MD students. Many DO students take both the COMLEX and USMLE.
 
I see and I think he meant that it was a state school WVSOM
 
And the new schools are ACOM in alabama, Campbell, and Marian. Check out the school specific threads to learn more about them.
 
I heard bad things about Campbell thats in Mississippi correct? Plus being a NY resident I would imagine that it would be hard for me to gain admissions into WVSOM correct? It really sucks being a NY resident. We only have 2 D.O schools and they're both private so theres no preference. And our State M.D schools are much more generous to out of state students than other public med schools in other states.
 
Columbia09 said:
I heard bad things about Campbell thats in Mississippi correct? Plus being a NY resident I would imagine that it would be hard for me to gain admissions into WVSOM correct? It really sucks being a NY resident. We only have 2 D.O schools and they're both private so theres no preference. And our State M.D schools are much more generous to out of state students than other public med schools in other states.
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Nah dude (or dude-ette) you are making all kinds of assumptions that are unfounded sorry. I've got a friend going to WVSOM from Utah right now. So yeah they're going to be as friendly as any to out of state students. 17 from NY last year, 17 from PA last year, and several others.

http://www.aacom.org/data/studenten...1-12_1st-Yr-Enroll-by-COM-Legal-Residence.pdf

Also, Campbell is in North Carolina. Marian is in Indiana. I haven't heard anything bad about either one personally. But as I said, I'd suggest checking out the school specific threads.
 
weezynation said:
URM isn't about one's struggle; it is about races who are underserved in healthcare and addressing that issue by accepting people of those races to medical school (some having lower stats, some not). I don't understand why some URMs are so worried about what other people think. If there was no such thing as URM, do you really think people wouldn't still question your abilities as a physician due to the sole fact that you are a minority?
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I agree with you 100%, except for your taste in music.
 
Plus I also believe that Touro NY is also a relatively new school. How competitive is that college?
 
Columbia09 said:
I heard bad things about Campbell thats in Mississippi correct? Plus being a NY resident I would imagine that it would be hard for me to gain admissions into WVSOM correct? It really sucks being a NY resident. We only have 2 D.O schools and they're both private so theres no preference. And our State M.D schools are much more generous to out of state students than other public med schools in other states.
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No. I covered this when you asked in the school-specific thread, too.
 
Wait so you actually have to attend a school in the city where you want to live? And do NYers have an avantage over other students from lets say Florida? I want to practice in NY which is my home state.
 
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Columbia09 said:
Wait so you actually have to attend a school in the city where you want to live? And do NYers have an avantage over other students from lets say Florida? I want to practice in NY which is my home state.
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.... I'm guessing you had problems in verbal along with physical science...

No, I'm saying that plenty of people dream of attending medical school and living in NYC while doing so. And any medical school will prefer students with connections to the area because it means they have family and a safety net.
Regardless, Touro is getting competitive. So if you want a good chance retake the mcat....
 
serenade said:
.... I'm guessing you had problems in verbal along with physical science...

No, I'm saying that plenty of people dream of attending medical school and living in NYC while doing so. And any medical school will prefer students with connections to the area because it means they have family and a safety net.
Regardless, Touro is getting competitive. So if you want a good chance retake the mcat....
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HAHAHAHA I laughed way hard when reading this. Serenade this is my favorite thing you have ever said.
 
abolt18 said:
HAHAHAHA I laughed way hard when reading this. Serenade this is my favorite thing you have ever said.
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I feel like he has a good future publishing electrophysiology papers. The methods rarely make sense or are explained, the extrapolations esoteric, and the general end point being nothing different than what was previously mentioned in the beginning.
 
serenade said:
.... I'm guessing you had problems in verbal along with physical science...

No, I'm saying that plenty of people dream of attending medical school and living in NYC while doing so. And any medical school will prefer students with connections to the area because it means they have family and a safety net.
Regardless, Touro is getting competitive. So if you want a good chance retake the mcat....
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You do know I didn't take the MCATs yet right? And I don't understad your logic behind those two sections being my problem......oh I get it because I had a grammatical error in my last post and I said I didn't like chemistry, physics and math. OOhhhhhhhh I see what you did there. smh
 
Columbia09 said:
You do know I didn't take the MCATs yet right? And I don't understad your logic behind those two sections being my problem......oh I get it because I had a grammatical error in my last post and I said I didn't like chemistry, physics and math. OOhhhhhhhh I see what you did there. smh
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No, verbal has little to do with grammar and much to do with reading comprehension. You seem to not be getting what is being said. That is the point. Killed the joke.
 
Columbia09 said:
You do know I didn't take the MCATs yet right? And I don't understad your logic behind those two sections being my problem......oh I get it because I had a grammatical error in my last post and I said I didn't like chemistry, physics and math. OOhhhhhhhh I see what you did there. smh
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***MCAT***** not MCATs. Unless you have taken multiple MCAT exams you have never taken MCATs......
 
I think Columbia09 is a very clever troll.
 
user3 said:
23 is not that bad. There are several DO schools with MCAT averages of 25-26 (VCOM, LMU, WCU, WVSOM, KYCOM, KCUMB, PNWU, and likely the 3 new schools). I'm sure there are plenty students attending them with 22-23 MCAT scores.
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23 is terrible the same way that any grade below a C is terrible.

50th percentile is 25.1. IIRC, there are >80k MCAT scores recorded per year. I don't know the percentile for 23, but I'd venture a guess that it's in the bottom 45%. That means >44000 scores were higher than yours. In what is perhaps the most competitive graduate school application process, that's pretty terrible.
 
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I was non-science major in undergrad so I went back and took all pre-reqs in 1.5 yrs w/ 4.0 gpa

MCAT: 23
cGPA: 3.01
sGPA: 3.90

I'm a 2nd yr and am in top 10% of my class...
 
MedPR said:
23 is terrible the same way that any grade below a C is terrible.
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It may be a poor score, but that isn't what counts. What counts is how competitive it is compared to the applicant pool.

Although 23 is at the low end of competitive, it is still competitive enough to get in as long as your GPA isn't terrible. Look at the 10 schools with averages of 25-26. 23 may be below those averages, but it isn't that far off the mark. And Look at the the person with a 22 and 4 acceptances, and the multiple people with 23's that have several interviews and acceptances. The people with 23's and no success usually have not applied to the right schools or applied too late.
 
user3 said:
It may not be a good score, but that isn't what counts. What counts is how competitive it is compared to the applicant pool.

Although 23 is at the low end of competitive, it is still competitive enough to get in under most circumstances. Look at the 10 schools with averages of 25-26. 23 may be below those averages, but it isn't that far off the mark. And Look at the the person with a 22 and 4 acceptances, and the multiple people with 23's that have several interviews and acceptances. The people with 23's and no success usually have not applied to the right schools or applied too late.
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Perhaps we share different definitions of "competitive". It's common knowledge that, in most cases, you need a strong all around application to matriculate. In my opinion, if you need to compensate for any part of your application, then that part of your application is weak. Just because someone gets in with a 23 does not mean that a 23 is competitive. It means the rest of their application was above average to spectacular enough to eclipse the poor score.
 
At those schools, a 23 wouldn't be considered too weak, is what he/she is trying to say.
 
KnuxNole said:
At those schools, a 23 wouldn't be considered too weak, is what he/she is trying to say.
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If >40% of matriculants had a 23 and otherwise lackluster application, then I would agree that 23 is competitive.
 
user3 said:
It may be a poor score, but that isn't what counts. What counts is how competitive it is compared to the applicant pool.

Although 23 is at the low end of competitive, it is still competitive enough to get in as long as your GPA isn't terrible. Look at the 10 schools with averages of 25-26. 23 may be below those averages, but it isn't that far off the mark. And Look at the the person with a 22 and 4 acceptances, and the multiple people with 23's that have several interviews and acceptances. The people with 23's and no success usually have not applied to the right schools or applied too late.
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User3, you just don't understand statistics. What you fail to realize is that getting in isn't some sort of cut off, you don't just get the minimal stats and suddenly get guaranteed a spot in med school. Fact is that plenty of people fail to get in with above average stats, why waste time and money applying with below average stats that probably put you at less than a 10% chance of getting accepted? It's just counter-intuitive and doesn't make any sense. So yes, some people have gotten in with a 22, but they were fighting against enormous odds.
 
it is a bad score in that the national average is around 24-35 these days. so a 23 would be below that...it is a long shot from being considered "competitive," even in relation to the rest of the applicant pool.
 
MedPR said:
More likely than not, it does.
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This is the negative of the Underdog thread, it makes people think that if someone got in with low stats that you can get in. People need to realize they need to make sure their application is as attractive to schools as possible. Chances are that the following years will see more and more pre-allo's seeping into DO schools and will be raising the averages well into the high 20s.
 
serenade said:
This is the negative of the Underdog thread, it makes people think that if someone got in with low stats that you can get in. People need to realize they need to make sure their application is as attractive to schools as possible. Chances are that the following years will see more and more pre-allo's seeping into DO schools and will be raising the averages well into the high 20s.
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Yea it's weird that 99% of pre-med SDN is about inflated stats, but the one place where low stats are successful is what many people believe the most in.

IMO one of the most important things to remember is a single high point on your app is never enough to matriculate, but a single low point is sometimes enough to get you rejected.
 
Columbia09 said:
If it does than why are there people wh do get in with that score or lower ?
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Sorry, I meant to type "more often than not, it does". What I typed should be clear enough though.. Yes a 23 doesn't always mean rejection, but more 23s get rejected than accepted.
 
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