Dec 15, 2015
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So I am a rising Senior now and just got my score back today.

My uGPA is a 3.63, sGPA is a 3.84. Grade trend is strong upward (got a 2.5 first semester freshman year). Minus this one semester my gpa is a 3.78 uGPA and a 3.93 sGPA.
Biochemistry Major with a Liberal Arts degree, graduating in 2017
I took the MCAT twice.
5/20 509/129/125/128/127
7/09 514/130/127/129/128 ~ 92%

EC:
President and Founder of the School's Biochemistry Club
Officer Pre-health Society
Calculus TA - 1 year
Volunteer O-Chem tutor/ta, will be paid though this fall
Volunteer English Tutor for H.S in Italy during my study abroad.
Shadowing - Will be shadowing for an entire week next week so probably 50+ hours

Jobs:
Worked for several months as a Clinical Research Coordinator on several Phase 3 drug trials in the field I am interested in (Neurology). I had direct patient contact and basically was second to the PI in running the trials. Approximately 400 hours.
Organic Chemistry Research - 400 hours -> no posters

LOR: Will get strong LOR. I believe I will get 2 committee letters from both the Chemistry and Biology department.

Will have a strong personal statement about my journey to medicine and the medical ailments I have had to overcome which affected and led me to medicine.


I am not really sure where to apply. I know I am late but I should be ready to go in 2 weeks (transcripts, LOR). Yes I probably should take a gap year to better my chances but I still want to apply this cycle. I am a resident in Michigan and have strong ties to the Texas area and NY so I am applying to most of these schools. I do not have a problem with DO schools as well. Can someone help me make a list.

Here is my Rough list, and yes I know many are reaches.

Albert Einstein
Rosalind Franklin
Eastern Virginia
Emory
George Washington
Georgetown
UC Keck
Loyola - Chicago
Mayo
Pennsylvania State
Rush – Chicago
Stony Brook
Tufts
UC David Geffen
U Miami
NC Chapel Hill
Loma Linda
SUNY Downstate
Saint Louis
Tulane
Wake
CUNY
Dartmouth
Toledo

Mega Leaps – Hopkins, Stanford

TX
McGovern
A&M
Tech – Lubbock
UT Austin
UT Southwestern
Baylor
TCOM

Instate:
Central Michigan
University of Michigan – My #1
Wayne State
Oakland University
Western Michigan
Michigan State

Maybes:
U Florida
U Kentucky
U Mass
Oregon
Florida Herbert Wertiheim
 
Last edited:

gyngyn

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You must have some sort of list?
Look for OOS schools that take at least 15-20% OOS with a median MCAT around 32.
 
OP
Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
352
144
Status
Pre-Medical
You must have some sort of list?
I really didn't, I just knew I was going to apply to every school in Michigan and many in TX ( have a better chance than most OOS since my UG is in Texas and I live here - don't have residency yet though)

Edited in to main post!
 
Last edited:
Jul 23, 2016
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Just a heads up- TMDAS operates on an earlier cycle than AMCAS. So the fact that you are OOS and submitting late will hurt you.
 
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Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
352
144
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Pre-Medical
Just a heads up- TMDAS operates on an earlier cycle than AMCAS. So the fact that you are OOS and submitting late will hurt you.
Yeah I know, and I realize it is a poor decision but I said I would apply to TMDSAS anyway so for sure I'm doing them and my state schools but I have no clue where to apply other than that.
 

GrapesofRath

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Sounds like you ought to go through MSAR. Follow gyngyns guideline for schools to tsrget. I personally would give priority to those that get <11k apps

If you aren't a resident of those states UIC SIU and U of Maryland aren't the best choices for you(espec the latter 2)
 
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OP
Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
352
144
Status
Pre-Medical
Sounds like you ought to go through MSAR. Follow gyngyns guideline for schools to tsrget. I personally would give priority to those that get <11k apps

If you aren't a resident of those states UIC SIU and U of Maryland aren't the best choices for you(espec the latter 2)
Thank you! And what do you mean by UIC SIU? Forgive my ignorance.
 

Goro

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I htink he missed a comma. Don't bother with the two ILL state schools

Thank you! And what do you mean by UIC SIU? Forgive my ignorance.
 

GrapesofRath

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Thank you! And what do you mean by UIC SIU? Forgive my ignorance.
Both are state schools in Il SIU is a pure donation for you they won't even look at OOS. UIC isn't a terrible choice but there are better ones out there for you

You are lucky you live in a very good state for MD admission. Apply to all MI schools and Toledo you should get IIs. Apply selectively OOS focus more so on those you'd seriously consider turning down that cheap IS tuition for. Tufts SLU Loyola and Einstein are solid OOS choices from above( I hear SLU and Loyola average multiple scores though)
 
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Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
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I htink he missed a comma. Don't bother with the two ILL state schools
Okay thanks,
Both are state schools in Il SIU is a pure donation for you they won't even look at OOS. UIC isn't a terrible choice but there are better ones out there for you

You are lucky you live in a very good state for MD admission. Apply to all MI schools and Toledo you should get IIs. Apply selectively OOS focus more so on those you'd seriously consider turning down that cheap IS tuition for. Tufts SLU Loyola and Einstein are solid OOS choices from above( I hear SLU and Loyola average multiple scores though)
Ah good to know. Thank you for the advice. I really will go wherever I am accepted so I just want a broad list since I'm applying so late. Do you think I even have a shot at U michigan? I'm applying regardless but that has been my dream school for years now.
 

GrapesofRath

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Okay thanks,

Ah good to know. Thank you for the advice. I really will go wherever I am accepted so I just want a broad list since I'm applying so late. Do you think I even have a shot at U michigan? I'm applying regardless but that has been my dream school for years now.
You won't know unless you apply. U of MI does take some lower stat apps from in state. 1/3 of their class went there for UG if you did it'll also help
 
OP
Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
352
144
Status
Pre-Medical
You won't know unless you apply. U of MI does take some lower stat apps from in state. 1/3 of their class went there for UG if you did it'll also help
I wish I did, I got accepted there but was told I would be more competitive for grad school if I went OOS for UG lol. Do you have any more ideas for my list? I'm really clueless about this and really just want to get an acceptance before Physical Chemistry and Research destroys whats left of my GPA
 
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oak'n'oats

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You seem like a solid candidate to get admission in one of the Michigan schools and that's where your best chance lies. Not sure about U MI but you might as well apply as IS. I think you can definitely cut that list a bit more since you're a strong Michigan IS candidate so you can save some money. In addition to other suggestions, take out UF, Kentucky, UNC, Umass, FIU, & Oregon
 
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Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
352
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You seem like a solid candidate to get admission in one of the Michigan schools and that's where your best chance lies. Not sure about U MI but you might as well apply as IS. I think you can definitely cut that list a bit more since you're a strong Michigan IS candidate so you can save some money. In addition to other suggestions, take out UF, Kentucky, UNC, Umass, FIU, & Oregon
Okay solid advice, thank you. Are there any other OOS schools that are friendly to OOS students that I am missing?
 
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Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
352
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Pretty sure I've talked with you a little bit over on the "other forum" that so many here cringe when they hear it mentioned. But I would add Tulane and Wake. I certainly am.
Haha ikr, well thanks for this I'll add them.
 

GrapesofRath

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I wish I did, I got accepted there but was told I would be more competitive for grad school if I went OOS for UG lol. Do you have any more ideas for my list? I'm really clueless about this and really just want to get an acceptance before Physical Chemistry and Research destroys whats left of my GPA
IF you apply to every school in your state and Toledo that gives you 6 schools you have a reasonable shot at getting a II. In Michigan at 3.7ish/32ish that's often enough for an acceptance.

Wouldn't hurt to add maybe a half dozen more OOS schools you can go in saying you have a reasonable shot at getting a II though.
For that go through MSAR target schools with an MCAT median around 32 that are OOS friendly and get <10k apps(ie Creighton, Jefferson MCW etc)
 
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Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
352
144
Status
Pre-Medical
IF you apply to every school in your state and Toledo that gives you 6 schools you have a reasonable shot at getting a II. In Michigan at 3.7ish/32ish that's often enough for an acceptance.

Wouldn't hurt to add maybe a half dozen more OOS schools you can go in saying you have a reasonable shot at getting a II though.
For that go through MSAR target schools with an MCAT median around 32 that are OOS friendly and get <10k apps(ie Creighton, Jefferson MCW etc)
Okay thank you so much for the advice. I will look through the MSAR and re-update. I figured my MCAT was more of a 34 tbh because I thought they would weight P/S lower and the numbers would be 13/10/12. Am I wrong here? Not that it really matters I'm just curious for when I am looking through the MSAR.
 

gyngyn

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Okay thank you so much for the advice. I will look through the MSAR and re-update. I figured my MCAT was more of a 34 tbh because I thought they would weight P/S lower and the numbers would be 13/10/12. Am I wrong here? Not that it really matters I'm just curious for when I am looking through the MSAR.
Both MCAT's count. How they count varies by examiner, but you are likely to be viewed as about a 32.
 
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GrapesofRath

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Okay thank you so much for the advice. I will look through the MSAR and re-update. I figured my MCAT was more of a 34 tbh because I thought they would weight P/S lower and the numbers would be 13/10/12. Am I wrong here? Not that it really matters I'm just curious for when I am looking through the MSAR.
509 is a 31. 514 is about 33-34. Many will average scores. You can report from 2010 that highlights why many schools do this if it is of interest to you below.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20881707
There are absolutely schools on that list above that tend to average multiple scores (ie Stony Brook Downstate SLU Loyola are examples of some that I've heard do)
You can't predict if an individual evaluator at a school is going to put more or less weight on P/S(many will give it similar weight as all sections)

I personally would use 32 as your MCAT score as a rough guide when going through schools in MSAR.
If you want to pick a few reaches using your 514 which is around a 33-34(ie Rochester as an ex) that's fine but they shouldn't constitute the majority of your list.
 
OP
Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
352
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Pre-Medical
509 is a 31. 514 is about 33-34. Many will average scores. You can report from 2010 that highlights why many schools do this if it is of interest to you below.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20881707
There are absolutely schools on that list above that tend to average multiple scores (ie Stony Brook Downstate SLU Loyola are examples of some that I've heard do)
You can't predict if an individual evaluator at a school is going to put more or less weight on P/S(many will give it similar weight as all sections)

I personally would use 32 as your MCAT score as a rough guide when going through schools in MSAR.
If you want to pick a few reaches using your 514 which is around a 33-34(ie Rochester as an ex) that's fine but they shouldn't constitute the majority of your list.
Fair enough, thank you for being straight with me. I'd rather that than assume something that isn't true. Is my list too top heavy then? I figured since I was probably okay for most of my instate schools it would be alright to be more so for my OOS schools. I wish I had voided that first one =/
 

GrapesofRath

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Fair enough, thank you for being straight with me. I'd rather that than assume something that isn't true. Is my list too top heavy then? I figured since I was probably okay for most of my instate schools it would be alright to be more so for my OOS schools. I wish I had voided that first one =/
Your list is way too long as is.
Like I said above a good goal is to have about a dozen targets you can go in saying you have a reasonable shot at getting a II at.
You can find them through MSAR through that criteria I listed(32ish MCAT OOS friendly <11k apps). Tulane and Wake are examples on your list.
Once you have those dozen you can add some reaches or preferential choice type options
 
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Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
352
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The only thing that I would add is to make sure you don't apply to so many schools that the quality of your II's suffer. Theoretically, the statistical chance of you gaining an acceptance by applying to 20+ schools compared to just 12-15ish (assuming the school profiles and selectivity of said schools doesn't dramatically change) isn't going to matter much. Assuming your list is accurate, thats FORTY schools. That just seems a little nuts.

I know I would certainly be overwhelmed to have to write like 40 QUALITY secondary essays. I'm not saying it can't be done, but your list is veryyy long. I think you should truly look at your list (and MSAR) and look for schools that you honestly see yourself at and see yourself being happy. I mean do you realllyyy think that every single one of those schools is somewhere you can defend your reasoning as to why you chose to apply there?

For example, I'm applying to 12 schools that I know I would be happy at and left any of the schools off my list that I would lack the true motivation to write the best secondary essays I could. Regardless, I am 100% committed to pursuing medicine as my career choice and will be thankful for even just one admittance, but with your profile, you definitely are worthy of middle-tier or better acceptance(s). Once again, I'm not doubting your ability to write quality secondaries all around and jumble all of the applications, timelines, fees, etc. at one time, I just know that it may not be in your best interest or use of time... and certainly not for your wallet. However, if neither of those are of any true concern for you, I don't see any problem with your list at all. Best of luck to you, man.
You are correct. I just need a rough list where I will narrow down. I will have a list of top 15 I want to apply to (after my State schools) and then whatever I can get done I will do. I just needed a rough list of schools where I would be competitive for and then I can look through that list and apply to schools I really would want go to.

So far the schools I really like are

My state schools, UTSW and TCOM (I really like the DFW area, prob not the best reason but whatever), Georgetown, George Washington, Albert Einstein, UC David Geffen. And that is already 12 schools, so I totally understand where you are coming from.
 
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Roayer
Dec 15, 2015
352
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Status
Pre-Medical
Both MCAT's count. How they count varies by examiner, but you are likely to be viewed as about a 32.
Sorry I don't mean to be neurotic here, but how damning is my GPA? Is the grade trend looked a lot more favorably that my uGPA? Since there is a big difference between a 3.6 and a 3.8 I'm just rather curious how the trend is taken into account? Thank you! Like those grades my first semester were a C- in Bible Class (yeah I know...) a B in General Chemistry I and a B in English 1. Idk if it helps but I got a B+ in my next dumb Religion class (those classes are hard, who has a 96 for an A), A in GC II, and A in English 2
 

gyngyn

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Sorry I don't mean to be neurotic here, but how damning is my GPA? Is the grade trend looked a lot more favorably that my uGPA? Since there is a big difference between a 3.6 and a 3.8 I'm just rather curious how the trend is taken into account? Thank you! Like those grades my first semester were a C- in Bible Class (yeah I know...) a B in General Chemistry I and a B in English 1. Idk if it helps but I got a B+ in my next dumb Religion class (those classes are hard, who has a 96 for an A), A in GC II, and A in English 2
In order, science gpa, total MCAT and then trend were most important in a 2013 survey by the AAMC: https://www.aamc.org/download/434596/data/usingmcatdata2016.pdf
See table 1.