3rd year grades

[Halaljello]

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It's greatly emphasized here that clerkship grades are VERY important when applying to EM. now does that mean one must honor every rotation? my first rotation as an M3 is winding down (OB/GYN) and things didn't go as smoothly as I hoped they would. I most likely wont honor but mabey high pass or pass the rotation. If my case is the latter, is this a bad start? what were some of your grades like during M3?

thanks

 

[Sessamoid]

Have you read the FAQ?

 

[Halaljello]

Have you read the FAQ?

yes. nothing there that really answers my question

 

[Sessamoid]

yes. nothing there that really answers my question

Fair 'nuff. In answer to your question, grades are pretty important, but not paramount. You obviously shouldn't fail any rotations, but not honoring a rotation isn't going to noticably hurt the strength of your application. Letters of recommendation are more important, IMHO.

 

[lawmd]

I have been told that peds, IM and surgery are most important. Some say that M3 is more important than M1 and M2-I agree. I did very average first 2 years(50th%) in my class, did well step 1 (230), avg step 2, honors most M3 rotations but a B on surgery(Damn shelf exam) and got all the interviews I wanted but one. Matched #1.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Given that I am very familiar with your school (having graduated from there last year) you will have two problems with a "pass" in Ob/Gyn and both of them contain advice for those outside UIC-R.

First, dean's letters at 👍our school contain all of the comments in the relevant section of your evaluations. The Ob/Gyn folks are known for "damning with faint praise" those who do well on the rotation. I can only imagine what might be said if you bomb it. Those comments will be hard to "explain away" during the match process.

Second, the rotation itself has traditionally been graded on the apparent "effort" demonstrated by the student (as opposed to actual or demonstrated knowledge). Busting your a** was a certain path to "honors" (or shall I say "outstanding") and this was absolutely true during the first rotation of the year. If this is still the case, I would take a serious look at how you are being percieved by your instructors. EM programs are looking for those about whom "hard working" "very dedicated" "puts in extra time when needed" are frequent quotes. If those evaluating you do not see good effort on your part, it is unlikely you will get the kind of comments most highly sought by EM PDs.

All that said, do well on your other rotations and this one will be no problem. Let this start a trend and you may limit some of your options...

Just my $0.02 (actual cash value $0.005)

- H

 

[irlandesa]

Given that I am very familiar with your school (having graduated from there last year) you will have two problems with a "pass" in Ob/Gyn and both of them contain advice for those outside UIC-R.

First, dean's letters at 👍our school contain all of the comments in the relevant section of your evaluations. The Ob/Gyn folks are known for "damning with faint praise" those who do well on the rotation. I can only imagine what might be said if you bomb it. Those comments will be hard to "explain away" during the match process.

Second, the rotation itself has traditionally been graded on the apparent "effort" demonstrated by the student (as opposed to actual or demonstrated knowledge). Busting your a** was a certain path to "honors" (or shall I say "outstanding") and this was absolutely true during the first rotation of the year. If this is still the case, I would take a serious look at how you are being percieved by your instructors. EM programs are looking for those about whom "hard working" "very dedicated" "puts in extra time when needed" are frequent quotes. If those evaluating you do not see good effort on your part, it is unlikely you will get the kind of comments most highly sought by EM PDs.

All that said, do well on your other rotations and this one will be no problem. Let this start a trend and you may limit some of your options...

Just my $0.02 (actual cash value $0.005)

- H

Although EM is competitive, I think it is rather harsh to judge someone by one evaluation. How do you know he/she won't improve? To the original poster, I wouldn't worry about it; just try to see how you can improve on other rotations. I know someone from my school who matched in Optho at NYP-Cornell with ALL high passes during the 3rd year, and some of the following matches from people who were NOT AOA (top 15%) based entirely on clinical grades:
Anesthesia: NYU X2, Maryland
Emergency Medicine: U Michigan, UMass, UCSD
IM: Beth Isreal Deaconess X 3, NYP-ColumbiaX 2, NYP-Cornell, NWU, Cedars-Sinai, U Wash, U Chicago, Cleveland Clinic
OB/GYN: NYP-Columbia, Cedars-Sinai
Ortho: Einstein-Montefiore
Pathology: Duke
Peds:Boston Children's, UCLA, Children's National Medical Center, UCI
Rad Onc: JHU, Emory
Surgery:Cleveland Clinic, Tufts-NEMC

 

[FoughtFyr]

Although EM is competitive, I think it is rather harsh to judge someone by one evaluation. How do you know he/she won't improve? To the original poster, I wouldn't worry about it; just try to see how you can improve on other rotations. I know someone from my school who matched in Optho at NYP-Cornell with ALL high passes during the 3rd year, and some of the following matches from people who were NOT AOA (top 15%) based entirely on clinical grades:
Anesthesia: NYU X2, Maryland
Emergency Medicine: U Michigan, UMass, UCSD
IM: Beth Isreal Deaconess X 3, NYP-ColumbiaX 2, NYP-Cornell, NWU, Cedars-Sinai, U Wash, U Chicago, Cleveland Clinic
OB/GYN: NYP-Columbia, Cedars-Sinai
Ortho: Einstein-Montefiore
Pathology: Duke
Peds:Boston Children's, UCLA, Children's National Medical Center, UCI
Rad Onc: JHU, Emory
Surgery:Cleveland Clinic, Tufts-NEMC

I wasn't judging, I clearly stated that if this is one, isolated poor grade, it should be no problem. However, knowing the specific faculty involved, unfavorable comments on the dean's letter are a possibility. That could be problematic. Also, again from firsthand experience, the faculty involved reward even the appearance of hard work. I would suggest that anyone who IS working hard and not seeing acknowledgement of their work needs to assess how they are being percieved. Especially this early in the year. And anyone who is not working hard is not likely to fit well in EM. At no time did I suggest, nor am I now, that the OP is "beyond hope". As for your list, add me, I was not AOA, or even close, and I matched at my #1 in EM.

But again, these are just my thoughts.

- H

 

[irlandesa]

I wasn't judging, I clearly stated that if this is one, isolated poor grade, it should be no problem. However, knowing the specific faculty involved, unfavorable comments on the dean's letter are a possibility. That could be problematic. Also, again from firsthand experience, the faculty involved reward even the appearance of hard work. I would suggest that anyone who IS working hard and not seeing acknowledgement of their work needs to assess how they are being percieved. Especially this early in the year. And anyone who is not working hard is not likely to fit well in EM. At no time did I suggest, nor am I now, that the OP is "beyond hope". As for your list, add me, I was not AOA, or even close, and I matched at my #1 in EM.

But again, these are just my thoughts.

- H

Fair enough, my misunderstanding.. But I have to say that I don't think it reflects particularly well on a school to include negative comments in the Dean's letter UNLESS they reflect a general pattern. I know this COULD become a general pattern with the original poster or anyone, but if someone is thoughtful enough to post on here asking for advice I wouldn't predict that to happen. But, this is by no means unique to your school.

My impression of OB/GYN is that the majority of students everywhere seem to despise the rotation and attitudes of the residents; so it is hard to get Honors (or even a High Pass at some places) b/c the students' feelings end up shining through. Perhaps your school is different, in which case, congrats, you are truly lucky. I do agree about demonstrating to attendings and residents that you are working hard and trying to improve your knowledge base. Learn to present patients in an efficient and concise way (this is NOT easy and is something one never stops learning!), show enthusiasm about taking admits and/or consults, and do relevant research on topics relevant to your patients every day. These things are particularly important on Medicine and Pediatrics. And residents will be VERY impressed by how you respond to constructive criticism and work to improve your knowledge and skills🙂