4th Year Away Rotations

[tele turnin]

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Yeah, it's that time of year. I failed to find a thread that gave good information regarding 4th year away rotations and figured it wouldn't be a bad idea to start one. Seems like some institutions provide a good syllabus, others nearly nothing, but what would really be helpful is input from students that have done these electives. I figured that this would be somewhat like the "Residency Review" thread for electives to give students insight onto not just whether the elective good or not, but to answer things like how much responsibility students got, labs/skills sessions, didactics, etc. Add what you got. I would like to start by asking about the following EM rotations:

Indiana University
Penn State (Sub-I)
Regions (Advanced rotation)
Western Michigan University
Lehigh Valley (Advanced rotation)
University of Arizona-Tuscon (Combined EM/CC)
University of New Mexico
SUMMA

 

[QuackaDO]

If you failed to find a thread with this info you probably didn't search too hard... there's been MANY and several in the last month. Perhaps not about ALL the specific sites, but at least about some of them. With that said, I think this is a pretty decent idea although I doubt it will fly like a residency review thread. I do know that if you haven't already been accepted to Indiana it's probably too late (or will be VERY soon) but I can't comment on any of the rotations until later this year 🙂 Perhaps after that I can chip in on 2 or 3 of those...

**also, if you haven't looked in the "rotations" subforum there is some info there as well

 

[Iride]

Yeah, it's that time of year. I failed to find a thread that gave good information regarding 4th year away rotations and figured it wouldn't be a bad idea to start one. Seems like some institutions provide a good syllabus, others nearly nothing, but what would really be helpful is input from students that have done these electives. I figured that this would be somewhat like the "Residency Review" thread for electives to give students insight onto not just whether the elective good or not, but to answer things like how much responsibility students got, labs/skills sessions, didactics, etc. Add what you got. I would like to start by asking about the following EM rotations:

Indiana University
Penn State (Sub-I)
Regions (Advanced rotation)
Western Michigan University
Lehigh Valley (Advanced rotation)
University of Arizona-Tuscon (Combined EM/CC)
University of New Mexico
SUMMA

I actually had trouble finding much on this topic last year myself. Unfortunately I cannot help you with any of the above mentioned places.

That being said, I am of the thought that THE most important aspect of everything is how much responsibility you get at a place. Reason being is that if ALL you can do is see patients without any charting/ordering capabilities, then your just adding work to whoever you check out to AND there really is no way to prove that you are a hard worker. Only way to shine on a rotation like this, in my opinion, is to be brilliant....which I don't think necessarily makes a great ED doc. Of course you can prove that your easy to get along with and a normal person.... but thats the easy part, assuming your a normal person.

 

[ABRuniverse]

If you failed to find a thread with this info you probably didn't search too hard... there's been MANY and several in the last month. Perhaps not about ALL the specific sites, but at least about some of them. With that said, I think this is a pretty decent idea although I doubt it will fly like a residency review thread. I do know that if you haven't already been accepted to Indiana it's probably too late (or will be VERY soon) but I can't comment on any of the rotations until later this year 🙂 Perhaps after that I can chip in on 2 or 3 of those...

**also, if you haven't looked in the "rotations" subforum there is some info there as well

FWIW, according to VSAS Indiana won't be accepting apps until the week of April 15th...

 

[Caesar]

FWIW, according to VSAS Indiana won't be accepting apps until the week of April 15th...

They are full for some months already.

 

[tele turnin]

They are full for some months already.

So those of us following this are somehow in the dark?
https://services.aamc.org/20/vsas/public/school/instID/129

 

[Caesar]

So those of us following this are somehow in the dark?
https://services.aamc.org/20/vsas/public/school/instID/129

I emailed. They did some pre-application thing.

 

[ABRuniverse]

I emailed. They did some pre-application thing.

Then what is the point of participating in VSAS?!

 

[Dane07MD]

Many programs fill their spots before VSAS opens. Highland does it I believe, and a few others if I recall. Email coordinators ahead of VSAS opening for a guarantee. Some will say "wait til VSAS", others will say "we can hold a spot for you".

 

[MalachiConstant]

Many programs fill their spots before VSAS opens. Highland does it I believe, and a few others if I recall. Email coordinators ahead of VSAS opening for a guarantee. Some will say "wait til VSAS", others will say "we can hold a spot for you".

This would have been nice to know ahead of time. I suspect Ohio State did this as well, since I went to apply there on VSAS and there's one month available and it's December. Pretty stupid. Kind of defeats the purpose of having this whole rotation application system.

 

[QuackaDO]

FWIW, according to VSAS Indiana won't be accepting apps until the week of April 15th...

Yup, that is true... Indiana won't be accepting OFFICIAL applications until then, BUUUUUUTTT... they do a preapp thing where you contact them, fill out their preapp and submit everything they want and that serves as a place holder for people. Take it from someone who did 😉 I was told they were already booked out til October or November (can't remember which one) back in early March so they may have little or no availability remaining when the official app opens. Basically, you filled out the preapp and got preapproved with a slot saved and when the official opened all you had to do was fill out the official and it's all done.

 

[QuackaDO]

Does seem silly in a way but it rewards the ambitious and the ones willing to make extra effort to get slots... kinda what they are looking for in the first place. I've always been of the mind that if you want something, go out and get it... don't sit and wait for anything to happen unless you know for certain that is what you are supposed to do and they only way to know for certain is to ask in advance. Just my .02

This would have been nice to know ahead of time. I suspect Ohio State did this as well, since I went to apply there on VSAS and there's one month available and it's December. Pretty stupid. Kind of defeats the purpose of having this whole rotation application system.

 

[FSU2013]

Does seem silly in a way but it rewards the ambitious and the ones willing to make extra effort to get slots... kinda what they are looking for in the first place. I've always been of the mind that if you want something, go out and get it... don't sit and wait for anything to happen unless you know for certain that is what you are supposed to do and they only way to know for certain is to ask in advance. Just my .02

Yea, but there's something to be said for people that can follow the rules as well.....

 

[MalachiConstant]

Does seem silly in a way but it rewards the ambitious and the ones willing to make extra effort to get slots... kinda what they are looking for in the first place. I've always been of the mind that if you want something, go out and get it... don't sit and wait for anything to happen unless you know for certain that is what you are supposed to do and they only way to know for certain is to ask in advance. Just my .02

I can't really argue this point as I've been more aggressive setting up other rotations myself. Still, in principle, I don't agree with creating the illusion of participating in the system, then doing backdoor deals.

FWIW, at least one place I know of suggests that contacting the program prior to their app opening on VSAS will actually hurt your chances of rotating there.

 

[Iride]

I can't really argue this point as I've been more aggressive setting up other rotations myself. Still, in principle, I don't agree with creating the illusion of participating in the system, then doing backdoor deals.

FWIW, at least one place I know of suggests that contacting the program prior to their app opening on VSAS will actually hurt your chances of rotating there.

Having just been through the whole process, I still think it is kind of ridiculous how valued away rotations are. Don't get me wrong, I know its nice to see that more than one place thinks your a hard working good person, but I think its crazy that you are forced to feel the pressure of essentially having your application together 5 months before ERAS opens.

Personally, I think away rotations are way more for yourself than for them to see you. If I could do it all over again I guess I would still do an away rotation, but only so I didn't rank that program higher on my list than I should have.

All that to say I think it is absolutely ridiculous for programs to give away spots before VSAS opens, and if they are going to, it should be very clear on their website that they are doing that.

 

[mybubbles14]

UT Houston does this too...VSAS says they don't accept apps until May 1st, but I contacted them a few weeks ago and they have a "wait list" prior to then and will be reviewing apps from the wait list may 1st.

 

[Dane07MD]

I don't necessarily support it either, but it does make sense. Programs use VSAS to facilitate receipt of applications and send out notifications/emails. They capitalize on the ambitious students ahead of VSAS opening to ensure they fill their spots. Sadly, there are no "rules" with the away rotation game, so this behavior is tolerated.