A new residency program. How many more can we bear?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Path or bust

Path or bust

I like meat
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
404
Reaction score
25
Just saw it on path outlines, a new pathology residency program has been submitted for "review" in Staten Island, NY. How many more programs can the market bear?

Chief of Anatomic Pathology
STATEN ISLAND, NEW YORK (USA). Staten Island University Hospital is a 714-bed, progressive, state-of-the-art teaching facility. The hospital is recognized nationally for its quality of clinical care, including a top-ranked Cardiothoracic Surgery Program. Regional Burn Center, New York State-designated Stroke Center, ASBS-designated Bariatric Surgery Center of Excellence and the Nalitt Cancer Center, to name a few.

Founded in 1861, Staten Island University Hospital today is a member of the North Shore-LIJ Health System, and enjoys numerous academic and clinical affiliations and accreditations.

The Department of Pathology is recruiting a Senior Surgical Pathologist with subspecialty training in GI Pathology, GYN Pathology, Pulmonary Pathology or Dermatopathology. Clinical Research is encouraged and a residency program has been submitted for review.


http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/jobs.html#siuh4
Members don't see this ad.
 
I don't think it's any reason to panic. Besides, didn't you post earlier that you already secured a job in the city of your choice which I'm guessing isn't NYC...so what are you worried about? It's not like graduates of this program are going to flood into Wichita or whatever city you're in and undercut your group's billing fees taking food from your baby's mouth. But I'll give you a few numbers which might make you feel better:

In the last five years 8 pathology residency programs have become extinct. If this gets approved, it'll be the first pathology program in more than the last five years. So that's still a net loss of programs. In addition, I personally know of another program that is still operational but will not be seeking re-accreditation/renewal in the next couple of years so that would negate the opening of a new program which still leave us with (-8) programs.

Plus look at the bright side, there's a new department opening up that needs staff pathologists, and as a result creating jobs :D
 
from what I have heard is that it will only have 2 residents/year..

but I agree the net should be to reduce the positions not increase them..
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Does someone know of a direct person to contact to fight this? Do you try the ACGME chair, Dr. Flynn or is there someone else more directly related to pathology? With the oversupply and struggle to find employment, this really needs to be fought.
 
atnag said:
Plus look at the bright side, there's a new department opening up that needs staff pathologists, and as a result creating jobs :D
Click to expand...

I know a POTUS that is currently in office that finds this type of thinking brilliant. You can be the next chief economic cabinet advisor
 
atnag said:
Plus look at the bright side, there's a new department opening up that needs staff pathologists, and as a result creating jobs :D
Click to expand...

Not true as this department already has pathologists on staff, most of which were hired 2 years ago around this time. There are too many path programs and just because there is still a net -8 programs it doesn't mean that they should open this one. Its just not practical given the current state of affairs.
 
veo1 said:
Not true as this department already has pathologists on staff, most of which were hired 2 years ago around this time. There are too many path programs and just because there is still a net -8 programs it doesn't mean that they should open this one. Its just not practical given the current state of affairs.
Click to expand...


How do you know there are too many path programs???? Why are there so many fear mongerers on this message board?
 
atnag said:
I don't think it's any reason to panic. Besides, didn't you post earlier that you already secured a job in the city of your choice which I'm guessing isn't NYC...so what are you worried about? It's not like graduates of this program are going to flood into Wichita or whatever city you're in and undercut your group's billing fees taking food from your baby's mouth.
Click to expand...

I know what you're saying, but simply because I have a job doesn't mean I stop caring about the future of the specialty.

Many people have also made the point that having a lot of people in the "pool" degrades the opportunities that exist for everyone in practice. Easier to lose contracts since someone is willing to do it for less, less partnerships, lower salary, more pod labs.

It's not about fear mongering, its about information. The more information that is out there, the more informed we can all be about the state of our specialty. All is not well. There is no sense in sticking your head in the sand, either.
 
I hear conflicting things on this board.

1) Too much government in our lives. Government has to stop funding residency spots in crappy places. Government has to get out of health care. Tea Party. Tea Party. Reagan! Reagan! Free Market!

2) Reference labs and sleazy clinicians as well as sycophant pathologists are ruining pathology. We need to regulate them more! No free market!
 
That program sounds horrible. IMG magnet maybe?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Yay! Free market. Path labs in India.
Repubs will like nothing better.. except.. um.. outsourcing the govt to India.
-POTUS (I)
 
Looks like the room is full of anti-religious bigots. The one group it is still okay to make fun of.

Unfortunately it also looks like the room is full of people who cannot think for themselves and fall into the drive-by media's narrative that Conservatives/Republicans are all hypocrites and they are not.

It is sort of like the narrative I have heard that you can't take social security if you believe the program is terrible and should be abandoned or at minimum seriously reformed. As if it is hypocritical to want pennies back on your dollar that the government "invests". Similarly, government propping up academics by giving them residents with big time money is something most conservatives/libertarians would find issue with. However, given those are the rules that we cannot (or because of the CAP/academia WILL not) change, we have to also like corporate pathology (who benefits from more government cronyism that most conservatives/libertarians hate)?

Either those commenting above are seriously mis-informed/ignorant of the conservative worldview or they are deliberately mis-representing it.
 
Thrombus said:
Looks like the room is full of anti-religious bigots. The one group it is still okay to make fun of.

Unfortunately it also looks like the room is full of people who cannot think for themselves and fall into the drive-by media's narrative that Conservatives/Republicans are all hypocrites and they are not.

It is sort of like the narrative I have heard that you can't take social security if you believe the program is terrible and should be abandoned or at minimum seriously reformed. As if it is hypocritical to want pennies back on your dollar that the government "invests". Similarly, government propping up academics by giving them residents with big time money is something most conservatives/libertarians would find issue with. However, given those are the rules that we cannot (or because of the CAP/academia WILL not) change, we have to also like corporate pathology (who benefits from more government cronyism that most conservatives/libertarians hate)?

Either those commenting above are seriously mis-informed/ignorant of the conservative worldview or they are deliberately mis-representing it.
Click to expand...

There is an interesting article about conservatives and accessing safety net programs, even while deploring them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/u...ly-depend-on-it.html?_r=1&ref=republicanparty

Perhaps hypocrisy does exist?
 
Thrombus said:
Looks like the room is full of anti-religious bigots. The one group it is still okay to make fun of.
Click to expand...

Probably, because unlike religious bigots, anti-religious bigots don't generally threaten those with a dissenting point of view with violence, rape, eternal damnation, etc. So, I say, let's go for it.
 
Thrombus said:
Looks like the room is full of anti-religious bigots. The one group it is still okay to make fun of.
Click to expand...

Yeah, ok dude. Conservatives never make fun of anyone. You do realize that any time a "liberal" makes fun of a "conservative" the conservative media goes ape**** over it, right? Partisan hacks of all political stripes are worthless and pathetic and should all be put in their own echo chamber so no one else has to hear them.

Unfortunately it also looks like the room is full of people who cannot think for themselves and fall into the drive-by media's narrative that Conservatives/Republicans are all hypocrites and they are not.

It is sort of like the narrative I have heard that you can't take social security if you believe the program is terrible and should be abandoned or at minimum seriously reformed. As if it is hypocritical to want pennies back on your dollar that the government "invests". Similarly, government propping up academics by giving them residents with big time money is something most conservatives/libertarians would find issue with. However, given those are the rules that we cannot (or because of the CAP/academia WILL not) change, we have to also like corporate pathology (who benefits from more government cronyism that most conservatives/libertarians hate)?

Either those commenting above are seriously mis-informed/ignorant of the conservative worldview or they are deliberately mis-representing it.
Click to expand...


Yeah this would make sense except for the fact that I have seen you criticizing pod labs, reference labs, people who would hugely benefit by having LESS regulation and more free enterprise. The existence of these labs is pure capitalism and free market. You also criticize residency programs for being too prevalent and that they should be limited and their funding should be cut. You are twisting the argument to favor regulation and funding when you want it to exist (so that it benefits YOU) and getting it out of the way when it hinders YOU. This is ok. This is politics. But you can't really say all this and then at the same time rail against socialist liberals and government interference. It is truly hypocritical. I know you don't see it that way, but it is.

If the government got out of funding residency programs and also got out of regulating physician licensure, that would not help matters at all.

You know what a true free market would look like in pathology if the government wasn't involved at all? Would not be pretty.

I am not saying I have the answers. Far from it. I am just saying you don't either and you shouldn't claim to. You say others can't think for themselves but I would posit that you are the one who can't think for himself - you have an idealized version of the truth which, if instituted, would improve the lot of everyone who worked hard and was a good pathologist. No, you need to think more. You need to analyze what the current barriers are to the job market, what any potential solutions are, and what are the potential consequences to any changes that are made. Things do not go as planned.

\
p.s. "drive by" media is not even close to being limited to the left. And don't call me a liberal. I hate liberals. I just hate right wingers even more because their social conservative mores are trying to control my life even more than the left wingers.
 
Art said:
There is an interesting article about conservatives and accessing safety net programs, even while deploring them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/u...ly-depend-on-it.html?_r=1&ref=republicanparty

Perhaps hypocrisy does exist?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately you have a perfect of example of how the leftist media can twist the narrative.

Many tea part folks would rather not have all these "safety nets", the government picking winners and losers, inflating some products and services while deflating others, and federal reserve currency manipulation. They feel they suffer as a result, the dollar buys less, the economy suffers as a result, their businesses/jobs are less profitable, they have more regulations/fees/taxes to pay etc. etc. Because of these hindrances, many qualify for various welfare/social programs. Of course they want pennies back on their dollar!! What are they supposed to do? You are forced by the government to play the game....but you can't hate it?

I personally hate the social security program. I feel I would rather invest privately than have the government's ponzi scheme forcing me to participate. I would like to see the thing ended. But you better believe I will take what comes to me (if anything by then, and God willing I am healthy to see that age).
 
Last edited:
lipomas said:
Yeah, ok dude. Conservatives never make fun of anyone. You do realize that any time a "liberal" makes fun of a "conservative" the conservative media goes ape**** over it, right? Partisan hacks of all political stripes are worthless and pathetic and should all be put in their own echo chamber so no one else has to hear them.




Yeah this would make sense except for the fact that I have seen you criticizing pod labs, reference labs, people who would hugely benefit by having LESS regulation and more free enterprise. The existence of these labs is pure capitalism and free market. You also criticize residency programs for being too prevalent and that they should be limited and their funding should be cut. You are twisting the argument to favor regulation and funding when you want it to exist (so that it benefits YOU) and getting it out of the way when it hinders YOU. This is ok. This is politics. But you can't really say all this and then at the same time rail against socialist liberals and government interference. It is truly hypocritical. I know you don't see it that way, but it is.

If the government got out of funding residency programs and also got out of regulating physician licensure, that would not help matters at all.

You know what a true free market would look like in pathology if the government wasn't involved at all? Would not be pretty.

I am not saying I have the answers. Far from it. I am just saying you don't either and you shouldn't claim to. You say others can't think for themselves but I would posit that you are the one who can't think for himself - you have an idealized version of the truth which, if instituted, would improve the lot of everyone who worked hard and was a good pathologist. No, you need to think more. You need to analyze what the current barriers are to the job market, what any potential solutions are, and what are the potential consequences to any changes that are made. Things do not go as planned.

\
p.s. "drive by" media is not even close to being limited to the left. And don't call me a liberal. I hate liberals. I just hate right wingers even more because their social conservative mores are trying to control my life even more than the left wingers.
Click to expand...

In a free"er" market, groups of competent pathologists would be able to smoke the corporate labs in my opinion; additionally the oversupply of pathologists would not be an issue if there was not so much pork given to academia through fat resident contracts (less than half of which goes to residents) while receiving "free" labor, and it would be more difficult to exploit pathologists; few corporations would "buy" a practice for much of a price if there were not an oversupply of pathologists. I will begin and end my defense of it there. I think you are a smart, thoughtful person, albeit with a different view on things than me. I don't have the answers either, but the path we are headed down is unsustainable and unaffordable.

The legal climate also prohibits one to shed light on unethical practice by corporate pathology. Who wants to deal with libel claims for simply exposing the truth?

Current laws and regulations are being put into place to hurt all physician negotiating power/leverage. This is anything but the free market! Obamacare writes that anyone can own a hospital EXCEPT a physician!!! Tyranny IMO.
 
Thrombus said:
Looks like the room is full of anti-religious bigots. The one group it is still okay to make fun of.
Click to expand...

Correction: I'm not an anti-religious bigot. I'm simply making a mockery of an individual who deserves to be mocked. And I make fun of everybody. Get over your persecuted self; I'm sure you are living a rough life.
 
Ruination said:
Correction: I'm not an anti-religious bigot. I'm simply making a mockery of an individual who deserves to be mocked. And I make fun of everybody. Get over your persecuted self; I'm sure you are living a rough life.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong, but using terms like "religious douchebaggery" and mocking prayer seems to entail religious bigotry to me, and most in my part of the country would certainly agree. Say that about another class of people and see how far that gets you.

Glad that you "make fun of everybody". I used to do that to as an 8 year old and found it wasn't worth it after my conscience matured a bit and efforts of discipline began to take their effect.

The elementary-level, shallow, personal, judgemental, stereotypical insult also is noted.
 
Last edited:
wow... this post really took a left turn...
 
sbp said:
wow... this post really took a left turn...
Click to expand...

You know what's kind of funny? The people who are acting like children and bickering in this thread are many of the people who, tomorrow, will be at work acting like professionals, politely calling back frozens and strutting around the halls acting professional.

Hahhahahaha such is life...

Everyone's true immaturity and insecurity is manifest on the Internet under the guise of anonymity.
 
KluverB said:
Probably, because unlike religious bigots, anti-religious bigots don't generally threaten those with a dissenting point of view with violence, rape, eternal damnation, etc. So, I say, let's go for it.
Click to expand...

We should not threaten, although as we are human we fail. For it is by God's grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but God's gift, so that no one can boast about it (Ephesians 2;8-9).
 
Let's get the thread back on track. The religion angle (pro or con) is a major thread derailment.
 
Thrombus said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but using terms like "religious douchebaggery" and mocking prayer seems to entail religious bigotry to me, and most in my part of the country would certainly agree. Say that about another class of people and see how far that gets you.

Glad that you "make fun of everybody". I used to do that to as an 8 year old and found it wasn't worth it after my conscience matured a bit and efforts of discipline began to take their effect.

The elementary-level, shallow, personal, judgemental, stereotypical insult also is noted.
Click to expand...

I'd rather have a cheerful mocking 8-year-old than an unhappy curmudgeon who sees persecution in every single joke and ironic statement.

Look inside yourself, find that 8-year-old again and laugh at yourself a little. It's WAY more fun. We won't loose our faith just because we acknowlege some of it's expressions are a little goofy. <O:p
 
2121115 said:
Let's get the thread back on track. The religion angle (pro or con) is a major thread derailment.
Click to expand...

Sure.... what was the thread all about?
Oh yeah... unregulated v. regulated markets...
Get gov't out of v. into my GME, medicare, podlab, Ameriquestclarientbostwickpath, etc.
More resident spots v. less...
Jobs... jobs... jobs... They Took Our Jobs, dey turk er jurbs, durkur duur - durkur dur!

Bottom line...
Whine wine whine
I did my time
So it ain't no crime
To have others do the work
While I shoot tequila and lime.
So, yes fool
I deserve to pull
down millions
just for showing up.
You tool.
Autopsy,
Biopsy,
Chemistry,
I ain't doin' none
Of that scutt, G.
I'll be board certified
In June, mofo
So, just show me the money
It's just like winin' the lotto.
And while your away salvin'
Down in the morgue
I'll be at the beach rollin'
Me a fatty (tee-hee that's illegal)
And bloggin' on conservative.org.

Peace, I'm out...

The blessing of the LORD brings wealth, without painful toil for it. (Proverbs 10:22)
 
path24 said:
Does someone know of a direct person to contact to fight this? Do you try the ACGME chair, Dr. Flynn or is there someone else more directly related to pathology? With the oversupply and struggle to find employment, this really needs to be fought.
Click to expand...
Don't worry, I heard that "new" path program is already in big trouble!
 
Guess we have to make sure there are enough slots so that ANYBODY can get in to pathology
 
mikesheree said:
Guess we have to make sure there are enough slots so that ANYBODY can get in to pathology
Click to expand...

That's true. The more I see of the oversupply, the more I think that its main beneficiaries are the megalabs.

If pathologists are just worker bees akin to assembly line workers, then that suits the megalabs quite well. They can make a ton of money off the labor of their workers while paying a very modest, fixed salary. That appears to be the direction this is going in.

I would not be surprised if there was some collusion at the top of the academic pyramid with these megalabs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

RoachUSMLE
Here you go! More path resident slots
Replies
37
Views
4K
medgator
M
gbwillner
CertLink question- how many questions do you get?
Replies
5
Views
849
LADoc00
LADoc00
LADoc00
How many groups jumped on COVID testing when they had the chance?
Replies
13
Views
1K
KeratinPearls
KeratinPearls
L
How many Path residencies to apply to/ chances???
Replies
6
Views
2K
KeratinPearls
KeratinPearls
cmz
Apparently we are "behind the times"...
Replies
26
Views
2K
ScubaV
S
Top