Abortion Views

[leechy]

I also want to add that while I am very pro-life I don't expect that elective abortion will ever be criminalized. As a pragmatist, I would be happy if we could ban the so-called "partial birth abortions" and second and third trimester abortions. I think you could generate enough support from the electorate for this. You could certainly never generate enough support for a complete ban on the practice which is why I don't waste my time, except for here, agitating for it. In this, I think my fundamentalist Christian friends protesting outside clinics are fundamentally wasting their time and winning few converts to our cause. I certainly vociferously support legislation for "conscience clauses" and the halting of federal funding for elective abortion because these things are politcally possible.

Well, I think we've hit upon a zone of overlap. I think most pro-lifers and pro-choicers, if required to outlaw abortion in one and only one trimester, would pick the third. In my view, that's significant in terms of the philosophy of moral status.

And I agree, the fundamentalist Christians are only succeeding in alienating people who might possibly support some of their causes.

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[leechy]

I'm talking about very young embryos here, like blastocyst stage, not about older fetuses. I'm in a rush right now, but will elaborate more later, hopefully with textual examples.

I was talking about stuff like this:
http://www.sdfertility.com/exercise.htm
"In mild cases, the ovaries may still produce and release eggs, but the lining of the uterus may not be ready to receive a fertilized egg because of inadequate ovarian hormone production." I.e., fertilized eggs die before implantation. Kind of like the morning after pill.

http://www.parentsplace.com/expert/...randRef=0&arrival_freqCap=1&pba=adid=13189133

If we really think that the two-thirds of conceptions who fail to make it are millions of children who are dying, we should be diverting funding from Alzheimer's and cancer and diabetes into research that will ensure these zygotes make it to term. "There's nothing we can do about it" or "it's natural" isn't an adequate answer any more than it is to childhood leukemia or brain cancers.

Also, I should add, people can be generally pro-life and not have a big issue with stem cell research, using the "pill" as a contraceptive or early stage abortions. I have friends like that, and I think they're pretty reasonable.

 

[Geronimo]

Well, I think we've hit upon a zone of overlap. I think most pro-lifers and pro-choicers, if required to outlaw abortion in one and only one trimester, would pick the third. In my view, that's significant in terms of the philosophy of moral status.

And I agree, the fundamentalist Christians are only succeeding in alienating people who might possibly support some of their causes.

A real difficulty for Christians such as myself is how do you go about getting what you believe to be supported by the powers that be. While I believe all abortion should be outlawed, this will not happen for many many years. So, we must take incremental steps as the homosexual agenda has done. Christians have to agree to outlaw abortions in the third trimester first. Then the next step would then be a little easier. All the organ systems are formed by the end of the second month, so we could then say that was a good line. It would certainly save a lot more lives that way. I'm all about incrementalism (sp?) if it saves lives.

 

[stinkycheese]

They would certainly not be considered to fall under the pale of orthodoxy if they do believe in a woman's right to choose. In Rabbi Ben Shava's address last month in Tel Aviv, he pointed out that those who abort their unborn children are no better than the pagan kings of old, like Babylon and the Philistines who ritualistically sacrificed mothers and their babies. The are like many of the "so-called" Christians in America who subscribe to religion but have little or no true faith in the teachings of Holy Scripture.

I said most modern Jews would not consider abortion wrong. Most modern Jews aren't Orthodox. I would say, "gotcha", but unlike you, I'm not going to put people down to make my point. The tone of your last message was inflammatory. Knock it off.

You are speaking gobbledygook.

Great argument

Cognition and emotional processing has nothing to do with eternal existence. Sp, if you don’t believe in souls, then you don’t believe in eternal life. Fine, your loss. You will believe one day, when your time on Earth is over.

Thanks for the heads up.

So you believe there is a difference? I would say “gotya” except I’m sure you would explain it away by saying that you are “like creatures” and thus a dog would see their emotion and longing and processing of information on a larger scale with other dogs than with a cat or a human.

I don't see what you're saying. Words order correct in put please.

God says so, and millions of other humans say so. By God saying so is enough. God will honor those who have enough faith to believe in His word alone. Jesus honored those who believed in Him while He was on Earth. One of the men who died on the cross beside Jesus believed and was saved. The other demanded a sign or a miracle before he believed. He was not saved.

That's great, but for people who don't believe in Jesus, the defense doesn't hold watta.

And what is your problem with just coming out and saying “GOD” or are you afraid He may actually exist and so you have to avoid saying His name in order to keep your conscious at ease? Or perhaps you just think you would offend others by using the letter O between G and D.

Now you're crossed the line. I am a Jew. We don't write G-d's name.

Some Christian you are.

Why, because they are emotional nut-cases who would never be fit to stand trial. So, we send them to get help and they spend some time in a ward. Sounds like punishment enough to me.

Are you going to be a doctor? Please make sure to announce on your psych rotation that people who attempt suicide are nutcases, and that psychiatric treatment is punishment.

 

[stinkycheese]

great post, Geronimo

and the God without the O has bothered me everytime i see it. The explanation i was once given was that they can never write God's name b/c if it got thrown out it was disrespectful to God. meanwhile God asks us to proclaim His name; hiding from it or refusing to mention it is an abomination to GOD!

Who's they? Jewish people? Can't you just write "Jewish people", or are so disrespectful of my people that you have to refer to us as "them"?

We don't hide from G-d's name. We believe that He is eternal and all-powerful, and don't believe that writing down His name on a disposable piece of paper, something that could get ripped, or something that can be deleted is appropriate. For the same reason, we don't rip our prayerbooks, and kiss them after closing them. We honor the print.

If you knew anything about Judaism, you would know that we didn't have a problem saying his name. In fact, there are more than 40 names in Hebrew for G-d. Some are so holy that they are only said on High Holy Days.

You really are acting pitifully, Psycho. Because of our past differences, you take every chance you can get to put down the Jewish faith. Putting down others while screaming to everyone about what a great Christian you are is pure hypocrisy. For this same reason, I can't respect someone who doesn't respect others' right to choice: about religion, about abortion, about anything.

 

[Benign_foodtube]

Yeah, Geronimo, you're a freekin *****. I am a practicing catholic, my faith is very important to me, and makes me who I am. I was also a religion major, and focussed in Jewish and Christian mysticism. I have studied religion, in particular the Abrahamic traditions for longer than you have had hair on yer b@lls, and I have studied it both exegetically, and through the eyes of faith. You are not only an arrogant ignorant sack of inflammatory garbage, but you also don't know what you are talking about. I'm not even going to argue with you. I make a point not to argue with people who have abandoned reason and courtesy, and heave up arguments like vomit. Your viewpoints are your opinion, so speak them if you may, but if you want to justify your own closed-minded actions and perspective, your feet should be placed on the fire of history, which you clearly have no sense of. I will say, however, that I feel very sorry for you. You're perceptions are skewed in such a way that you must be in a very lonely place right now.

 

[stinkycheese]

Thanks, classmate We're going to be, like, best friends next year, fo'sheezy.

 

[QofQuimica]

I would like to point out that many of Geronimo's statements are erroneous to the point of being, well, blasphemous. One thing I CAN agree with him on is the injustice of tarring the rest of you who call yourselves Christians with the same brush.

Speaking of Jews:

They would certainly not be considered to fall under the pale of orthodoxy if they do believe in a woman's right to choose. In Rabbi Ben Shava's address last month in Tel Aviv, he pointed out that those who abort their unborn children are no better than the pagan kings of old, like Babylon and the Philistines who ritualistically sacrificed mothers and their babies.

First, the great majority of Jews here in America and everywhere else on the planet, including Israel, are not orthodox. (Only about 11% of American Jews are orthodox: http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/demographics.htm ) And there are multiple sects and leaders among the orthodox; this rabbi does not speak for the whole of orthodox Judiasm in the way that the pope speaks for all Catholics.

Second, this statement applies to elective abortions. Jewish law recognizes that in the case of the mother's life being endangered during pregnancy, abortion of the fetus is permissible. No religious Jew would ever be expected to sacrifice her own life for her fetus if both could not be saved. Most people, whether religious or not, do distinguish between elective abortions and those needed to save the life of the mother. Opposition to the first does not necessarily entail opposition to the second. There is a clear difference in kind here.

And what is your problem with just coming out and saying “GOD” or are you afraid He may actually exist and so you have to avoid saying His name in order to keep your conscious at ease? Or perhaps you just think you would offend others by using the letter O between G and D.

Psychodoctor's explanation of this was correct. Many religious Jews (not necessarily orthodox, but believers) do not use the "o" when writing God's name on any temporary medium, whether it be a piece of paper that may be destroyed or an email that may be deleted. This practice is a sign of respect for God and should not be construed as being due to a fearful conscience or the fear of offending others.

The ACLU is stripping parents of their rights to bring them up as they wish. They fight parent custody when a child wishes to marry at age 14 or 12 or even 10 in a case from Nevada.

This gets back to the original argument about where to draw lines. We can all probably agree that a 20-year-old has the right to get married whenever s/he wishes to do so. But a 10-year-old??? A child of this age is not capable of "wishing to marry" and understanding the ramifications of making this kind of decision! While children are not property of their parents, their parents ARE in charge of looking out for their well-being and otherwise doing what is in the best interests of the child. If they do not do so, then someone from the outside must step in.

Why not a man and his dog?

For the same reason why no man is permitted to marry a ten-year-old child: the dog, like the child, is not capable of consenting to this.

 

[Benign_foodtube]

Thank you, Q. That, y'all, is an intelligent and well informed perspective.

About the whole name of G-d thing (man O man are we off topic here, sorry)-- G-d of course is not the name of G-d, it is a title, like Adonai. Interestingly, in old Jewish scriptures, the consonants of the hebrew language were written as text, while the vowels were written as dots and lines below the consonants they modify. The name of G-d, often abbreviated YHWH or even Yahweh (the appropriate vowel combination, thus the name of G-d, was only known by the high priest, and only uttered at very special times on the Jewish calendar, in the inner sanctum of the temple. The vowel combination was "lost" after the destruction of the 2nd temple) was, in these old texts, written YHWH, with the vowel combination for Adonai (a title, like Lord) written below the consonants. This was to remind the reader that they were to never utter the name of G-d, and to rather say "Adonai". Funny thing is, after time, many people assumed that this was the actual vowel combo for the name of G-d, and started pronouncing the whole name as "YaHoWaH", aka Jahova. "Jehova" therefore is a mispronunciation of G-d's name based on the splicing of the tetragramaton with the vowels of Adonai. It is, however, just as valid an expression for G-d as is "yahweh", which Christians use daily. So it's all good.

Kinda neat, huh?

Just to stay on topic-- abortion. There, I said it.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Thank you, Q. That, y'all, is an intelligent and well informed perspective.

About the whole name of G-d thing (man O man are we off topic here, sorry)-- G-d of course is not the name of G-d, it is a title, like Adonai. Interestingly, in old Jewish scriptures, the consonants of the hebrew language were written as text, while the vowels were written as dots and lines below the consonants they modify. The name of G-d, often abbreviated YHWH or even Yahweh (the appropriate vowel combination, thus the name of G-d, was only known by the high priest, and only uttered at very special times on the Jewish calendar, in the inner sanctum of the temple. The vowel combination was "lost" after the destruction of the 2nd temple) was, in these old texts, written YHWH, with the vowel combination for Adonai (a title, like Lord) written below the consonants. This was to remind the reader that they were to never utter the name of G-d, and to rather say "Adonai". Funny thing is, after time, many people assumed that this was the actual vowel combo for the name of G-d, and started pronouncing the whole name as "YaHoWaH", aka Jahova. "Jehova" therefore is a mispronunciation of G-d's name based on the splicing of the tetragramaton with the vowels of Adonai. It is, however, just as valid an expression for G-d as is "yahweh", which Christians use daily. So it's all good.

Kinda neat, huh?

Just to stay on topic-- abortion. There, I said it.

do you say the word GOD? If so, then write it too. if not, I'd like to know how to pronounce G D

 

[Benign_foodtube]

do you say the word GOD? If so, then write it too. if not, I'd like to know how to pronounce G D

Do you say the word "DOCTOR"? If so, then write it too. If not, I'd like to know how to pronounce Dr.

PS Blow me, Captain Sarcastic!

 

[vhawk]

Christians, for the most part, could never hold true to the concept of turning the other cheek in the literal sense. Christians should stop being pansies and stand up for what they believe. They have stood in the halls of congress to long allowing activist groups like the ACLU and homosexual agenda chip away slowly at Christian heritage and family. Christians and Jews are the majority in this country and should have a darn big “say” in what goes on around here.

If we are seen as trampling on minority rights, then we have to consider two things. First of all, is it tradition or is it something that is morally defensible. If it lines up with God’s word, such as abortion or homosexuality, then we can not take a back seat and let others run the country. If it has to do with praying over a meal at school, God never said prayers can’t be silent. None-the-less, God does say let your light so shine before men that it will bring glory to God the Father in heaven. If a child can’t pray in school, they probably can not proselytize either. That limits there freedom of religion as God does instruct men to make disciples of others. Perhaps the greatest goal of the Christian church is to convince others that there is a God, He is Holy and Just and expects mean to live without blemish or sin, all men have failed an fallen short of God’s standard, none-the-less God loves man, He died in place of man for man’s sin, man only needs to accept that fact and offer his love in return to God in return for eternal life.

Now, you may say that Christians can not do this if they offend others. God’s word is offensive. The very nature of telling other people they will go to hell if they don’t subscribe to our faith is offensive. However, we see it as love to try and save you from falling into eternal damnation, not a hateful offense. Jesus said that some will never listen, some will listen but never accept it, others will listen and entertain it but in the end, not accept, and yet others will listen and accept it. Christians should be prepared to deal with all of this, realizing they are just going to offend some people. If someone is so offended by the “Truth” that they will not accept it, that is terribly sad as they will spend eternity without God. But, the Christian fulfilled what God expects of them and delivered the message. Don’t shoot the messenger if you don’t like the message. Jesus said that if you are rejected by man, it is not you there are rejecting but Me.

Wow, this is a baffling post. My religion is offensive, it preaches that, rather than preaching and converting, I must de-pants disciples, willing or otherwise, in order to carry out the word of my God. Luckily, this doesnt do any true physical harm, although it is certainly irritating and conflicts others day-to-day operations, especially in a buidling designed to teach kids how to read, but I have religious freedom, so I shall be free!. Let the de-pantsing begin!

 

[vhawk]

Who's they? Jewish people? Can't you just write "Jewish people", or are so disrespectful of my people that you have to refer to us as "them"?

We don't hide from G-d's name. We believe that He is eternal and all-powerful, and don't believe that writing down His name on a disposable piece of paper, something that could get ripped, or something that can be deleted is appropriate. For the same reason, we don't rip our prayerbooks, and kiss them after closing them. We honor the print.

If you knew anything about Judaism, you would know that we didn't have a problem saying his name. In fact, there are more than 40 names in Hebrew for G-d. Some are so holy that they are only said on High Holy Days.

You really are acting pitifully, Psycho. Because of our past differences, you take every chance you can get to put down the Jewish faith. Putting down others while screaming to everyone about what a great Christian you are is pure hypocrisy. For this same reason, I can't respect someone who doesn't respect others' right to choice: about religion, about abortion, about anything.

Karma's a bitch. Watch your back.

So, I am a strong atheist, as far as that goes, although I dont much like labels. Seems kinda weird to join a club for NOT believing in something, like saying I am a member of the "We Don't Believe in Bigfoots." However, most of the people I interact with ona daily basis are either Christian or Jewish, some of other faiths, but predominantly those two. Why does it always seem that, and here of course I am making broad generalizations based on anecdotal evidence, that my Jewish friends, while still of strong character and conviction, sure seem a lot more at peace with their beliefs, and much less evangelical about it. Maybe its the whole "Chosen people" thing, but I sure as heck would rather get into a religious argument with a Jew than a fundy any day, and although I generally lose, I almost always come out of it feeling much more informed, rather than the soiled, disappointed feeling I usually get when arguing(or reading posts) from the Christian right.

 

[stinkycheese]

do you say the word GOD? If so, then write it too. if not, I'd like to know how to pronounce G D

I don't know why I am going to respond, but I am.

Do you know of the Ten Commandments? Do you know how we're not supposed to take G-d's name in vain? Well, to a Jew, writing the word G-d in a place where it can be easily erased or destroyed is, in some ways, taking His name in vein. Out of deference, we don't do it. He is eternal and His name, and the ways in which we speak about Him, should honor that.

Why does this personally offend you so much? Why are you instructing an entire people to change their faith based on YOUR convictions? Why can't you just respect differences? It makes me sad for you.

 

[8744]

You rock! I have some pro-life friends with similar viewpoints.

I am sad to report that today, while only three blocks from my house on the tail end of our daily run my beautiful Border Collie Nora ran out in front of a car and was killed. I have been running this dog for five years. I let her run off the leash in "safe" areas like our neighborhood where the speed limit is only 25 MPH. The guy who hit her didn't even stop. I knew it was bad but I still prayed that she'd get up with only serious but treatable injuries. This was not the case. My poor friend was in a lot of pain. Some good samaritan helped me take her to our vet but her injuries were so severe that I asked the vet to put her down.

Big, ex-Marine as I am I cried like a girl in the vets office. My wife and I are heart-broken. I know it is silly to shed tears over a dog especially in light of the legions of the dead from the Tsunami but we can't help it.

That was one good dog. My constant companion with whom I have run thousands of miles over the last five years.

 

[velo]

I don't know why I am going to respond, but I am.

Do you know of the Ten Commandments? Do you know how we're not supposed to take G-d's name in vain? Well, to a Jew, writing the word G-d in a place where it can be easily erased or destroyed is, in some ways, taking His name in vein. Out of deference, we don't do it. He is eternal and His name, and the ways in which we speak about Him, should honor that.

Why does this personally offend you so much? Why are you instructing an entire people to change their faith based on YOUR convictions? Why can't you just respect differences? It makes me sad for you.

I understand and respect that, but I have a serious question you might be able to clarify just because i find this interesting...don't we not actually know God's name? Isn't he "him who is called 'I am'"? I understand you don't want to take his name in vain, but since he understands that we need to call him something and that we just made up a word that isn't even his real name, why does he mind if we write it out?

 

[velo]

I am sad to report that today, while only three blocks from my house on the tail end of our daily run my beautiful Border Collie Nora ran out in front of a car and was killed. I have been running this dog for five years. I let her run off the leash in "safe" areas like our neighborhood where the speed limit is only 25 MPH. The guy who hit her didn't even stop. I knew it was bad but I still prayed that she'd get up with only serious but treatable injuries. This was not the case. My poor friend was in a lot of pain. Some good samaritan helped me take her to our vet but her injuries were so severe that I asked the vet to put her down.

Big, ex-Marine as I am I cried like a girl in the vets office. My wife and I are heart-broken. I know it is silly to shed tears over a dog especially in light of the legions of the dead from the Tsunami but we can't help it.

That was one good dog. My constant companion with whom I have run thousands of miles over the last five years.

sorry to hear about that P-bear, condolences. I know they're not human, but pets really do get to feel as though they're members of the family and good friends...Just try to remember the good times.

 

[MoosePilot]

I am sad to report that today, while only three blocks from my house on the tail end of our daily run my beautiful Border Collie Nora ran out in front of a car and was killed. I have been running this dog for five years. I let her run off the leash in "safe" areas like our neighborhood where the speed limit is only 25 MPH. The guy who hit her didn't even stop. I knew it was bad but I still prayed that she'd get up with only serious but treatable injuries. This was not the case. My poor friend was in a lot of pain. Some good samaritan helped me take her to our vet but her injuries were so severe that I asked the vet to put her down.

Big, ex-Marine as I am I cried like a girl in the vets office. My wife and I are heart-broken. I know it is silly to shed tears over a dog especially in light of the legions of the dead from the Tsunami but we can't help it.

That was one good dog. My constant companion with whom I have run thousands of miles over the last five years.

I'm sorry, Panda

 

[stinkycheese]

That's really sad, Panda, and it's not silly to grieve for a pet. Just because there is horror all over the world doesn't mean that we can't take the time to reflect on and mourn over our own losses. However insignificant something may seem to the rest of the world - it's not insignificant to you. She was your companion, and I hope you can always hold the good times you had with her near to your heart. I know that if it were me, my heart would be broken as well. My heart really goes out to you. Take care.

 

[stinkycheese]

I understand and respect that, but I have a serious question you might be able to clarify just because i find this interesting...don't we not actually know God's name? Isn't he "him who is called 'I am'"? I understand you don't want to take his name in vain, but since he understands that we need to call him something and that we just made up a word that isn't even his real name, why does he mind if we write it out?

You know, I think that's a great question. For an expert answer, and for my own enlightenment as well, I am going to email this to my Rabbi and ask that he respond. (He loves this stuff!) I have vague ideas, but am not educated well enough to make a proper response. Let me get back to you on this one.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Do you say the word "DOCTOR"? If so, then write it too. If not, I'd like to know how to pronounce Dr.

PS Blow me, Captain Sarcastic!

sorry i should have said how do you pronounce G-D. But anyway that's an established English abbreviation. Abbreviations are to reduce the number of letters. I think this is different.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

So, I am a strong atheist, as far as that goes, although I dont much like labels. Seems kinda weird to join a club for NOT believing in something, like saying I am a member of the "We Don't Believe in Bigfoots." However, most of the people I interact with ona daily basis are either Christian or Jewish, some of other faiths, but predominantly those two. Why does it always seem that, and here of course I am making broad generalizations based on anecdotal evidence, that my Jewish friends, while still of strong character and conviction, sure seem a lot more at peace with their beliefs, and much less evangelical about it. Maybe its the whole "Chosen people" thing, but I sure as heck would rather get into a religious argument with a Jew than a fundy any day, and although I generally lose, I almost always come out of it feeling much more informed, rather than the soiled, disappointed feeling I usually get when arguing(or reading posts) from the Christian right.

are you or your Jewish freiends deceived enough to think that Jews are still the "chosen people"? they blew that opportunity a long time ago.

and the reason Jews don't seem evangelical is b/c they are mssing the second part of the Bible, in the NT where God commands His people to spread the gospel to the whole world....they may seem like they are at peace, but they may also be deceiving themselves...

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I am sad to report that today, while only three blocks from my house on the tail end of our daily run my beautiful Border Collie Nora ran out in front of a car and was killed. I have been running this dog for five years. I let her run off the leash in "safe" areas like our neighborhood where the speed limit is only 25 MPH. The guy who hit her didn't even stop. I knew it was bad but I still prayed that she'd get up with only serious but treatable injuries. This was not the case. My poor friend was in a lot of pain. Some good samaritan helped me take her to our vet but her injuries were so severe that I asked the vet to put her down.

Big, ex-Marine as I am I cried like a girl in the vets office. My wife and I are heart-broken. I know it is silly to shed tears over a dog especially in light of the legions of the dead from the Tsunami but we can't help it.

That was one good dog. My constant companion with whom I have run thousands of miles over the last five years.

Panda Bear, I am so sorry; I know how much it must hurt. A pet is a member of a family and you should mourn your loss. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

 

[velo]

You know, I think that's a great question. For an expert answer, and for my own enlightenment as well, I am going to email this to my Rabbi and ask that he respond. (He loves this stuff!) I have vague ideas, but am not educated well enough to make a proper response. Let me get back to you on this one.

Good deal, let me know what he says

 

[velo]

are you or your Jewish freiends deceived enough to think that Jews are still the "chosen people"? they blew that opportunity a long time ago.

and the reason Jews don't seem evangelical is b/c they are mssing the second part of the Bible, in the NT where God commands His people to spread the gospel to the whole world....they may seem like they are at peace, but they may also be deceiving themselves...

oh.....my......god......

I'm speechless at this one, just going to save it for posterity, and future ammo against PD's insanity

 

[Cerberus]

are you or your Jewish freiends deceived enough to think that Jews are still the "chosen people"? they blew that opportunity a long time ago.

and the reason Jews don't seem evangelical is b/c they are mssing the second part of the Bible, in the NT where God commands His people to spread the gospel to the whole world....they may seem like they are at peace, but they may also be deceiving themselves...

Someones just jealous that god didn't choose him.

But seriously, you have got to be the biggest ****ing douchebag this forum has ever known.

 

[Cerberus]

I don't know why I am going to respond, but I am.

Do you know of the Ten Commandments? Do you know how we're not supposed to take G-d's name in vain? Well, to a Jew, writing the word G-d in a place where it can be easily erased or destroyed is, in some ways, taking His name in vein. Out of deference, we don't do it. He is eternal and His name, and the ways in which we speak about Him, should honor that.

Why does this personally offend you so much? Why are you instructing an entire people to change their faith based on YOUR convictions? Why can't you just respect differences? It makes me sad for you.

Don't try to talk to PD about Judaism. If it's not his brand of religion, its wrong, plain and simple.

 

[MadameLULU]

are you or your Jewish freiends deceived enough to think that Jews are still the "chosen people"? they blew that opportunity a long time ago.

and the reason Jews don't seem evangelical is b/c they are mssing the second part of the Bible, in the NT where God commands His people to spread the gospel to the whole world....they may seem like they are at peace, but they may also be deceiving themselves...

As a certain kitty would say, "Shame on you!"

 

[Cerberus]

great post, Geronimo

and the God without the O has bothered me everytime i see it. The explanation i was once given was that they can never write God's name b/c if it got thrown out it was disrespectful to God. meanwhile God asks us to proclaim His name; hiding from it or refusing to mention it is an abomination to GOD!

I think you are an abomination to G-D! Seriously, WTF does it matter to you if I type GOD or G-D? You are the most intolerant bigot on this forum. I hope god loves you because I sure as hell dont.

 

[leechy]

As a certain kitty would say, "Shame on you!"

Agreed.

He should be ashamed, but he's probably just repeating the kinds of verbiage that are tossed around amongst the fundy communities.

 

[leechy]

I am sad to report that today, while only three blocks from my house on the tail end of our daily run my beautiful Border Collie Nora ran out in front of a car and was killed.

I'm terribly sorry to hear about your loss. My heart goes out to you and your wife.

 

[Cerberus]

My blood boils after reading his posts

 

[leechy]

A real difficulty for Christians such as myself is how do you go about getting what you believe to be supported by the powers that be. While I believe all abortion should be outlawed, this will not happen for many many years. So, we must take incremental steps as the homosexual agenda has done. Christians have to agree to outlaw abortions in the third trimester first. Then the next step would then be a little easier. All the organ systems are formed by the end of the second month, so we could then say that was a good line. It would certainly save a lot more lives that way. I'm all about incrementalism (sp?) if it saves lives.

Even if some of us pro-choicers were willing to discuss third trimester restrictions, for instance, the knowledge that pro-lifers are on a religiously-inspired mission to ultimately make it illegal to give the morning after pill to 13 year olds who've been raped by their daddies basically freaks us out. That's why, even if I have some ambivalence about third trimester abortions, I'm not going to support efforts to outlaw it.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Someones just jealous that god didn't choose him.

But seriously, you have got to be the biggest ****ing douchebag this forum has ever known.

you seriously don't realize that the Jews didn't follow God's commandments and put their trust in Him and therefore God gave up on the Jews? well i guess if you are actually Jewish you wouldn't actually accept that God moved on to save others through Jesus, but surely this isn't a new concept to you...you have heard it. So even if you don't believe it, it does not make me insane for believing it and mentioning it myself. I mean otherwise you are totally clueless of something tha thas been preached for generations.

 

[leechy]

My blood boils after reading his posts

That's entirely understandable.

In a way, though, I'm glad PD's true colors were revealed. Not that I didn't suspect it before, but it's good to have a clear picture of the nature of the people you're dealing with.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

My blood boils after reading his posts

well then it's mutual, my blood boils after reading your posts

 

[DrMom]

It appears that the OP's questions have been addressed and that the rest of this has turned into a flame war. In light of this, I'm going to go ahead & close this thread.