Acceptance Dilemma...

[Veterinary789234]

Would you rather go to a school that has everything you want, but pay out of state tuition? Or would you go to a school you don't particularly like at all if it had in-state tuition?

This is my current dilemma. I am currently trying to choose between out of state 'dream' and in state 'eh'.
First, I want to go to the University of Tennessee (out of state) which has everything that I want. An amazing teaching hospital, affordable pet-friendly housing, the people are amazing and nice, only 1.5yr didactic work, which means 2.5 worth of clinicals. great ophthalmology department (what I am wanting to specialize in), etc. BUT it would cost about $79,000 a year factoring in tuition and cost of living... with the only option for in-state tuition being if I married someone out there lol
My total cost for education would be over 300,000 which is insanely expensive imo.

OR

I could go to my 'in-state' school which is through the WIMU program. I would attend Utah State for the first 2 years and then transfer out to Washington. Though this is a great program, I worry about hands on learning at Utah state because there is no teaching hospital, they don't have many (if any) ophthalmology opportunities, and housing is less than desirable. for example, google "pet friendly housing" in Knoxville you get back 144 results... in Logan, UT you only receive a dismal 7. A lot of the classes are satellite as well meaning you see the slideshow but only hear the professor's voice through speakers because he is teaching from Washington.
This all being said, they do have some positive such as a small class size of only 30 students and the financial gains are extreme. For my full 4 year cost at this school would be about 170,000 which is HALF the price of Tennessee

I feel as though I am being a complete idiot for having this dilemma at all but I just had an 'off' feeling with Utah State and I don't quite know why. Has anyone gone through the program and can put me at ease? is it worth sticking out the 2 tough years to eventually make it to Washington?

And on another note, is it even worth saving that money if I plan on going through PSLF for loan repayment?
(I would end up paying the same amount overall regardless actual debt amount, most likely about 70-80k before forgiveness)
AND to add in another factor of confusion, the way Trump is swinging, should I even put that much confidence in that plan seeing as he is trying to discontinue PSLF for everyone?!

Help!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[bhiu15]

I'm having the the same problem.
I'm accepted to one school, which I love everything about minus the cost, and I'm waiting to hear back from my in state, which I dislike everything about BUT the cost.
Sorry I'm not much help, but I'll be stalking this thread!

 

[britzen]

Would you rather go to a school that has everything you want, but pay out of state tuition? Or would you go to a school you don't particularly like at all if it had in-state tuition?

I think you will soon find that many of the veterinary graduates on here will tell you to go to the cheapest school you can find unless you have a super compelling reason not too. The cons of high debt will probably far outweigh the benefits of one program over another and will impact your life in the long term when it comes to your ability to live comfortably and have the freedom to choose jobs you want rather than jobs you feel like you have to take to pay your loans down.

Remember that you also have to factor in the cost of capitalizing interest too, on top of your loans (6.8% compounded quarterly, I think for stafford loans?) Interest adds up much faster on $300K than it will on $170K.

From one of the many online loan calculators:

More expensive School cost over 10 years repayment
Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Term: 10 years
Monthly Loan Payment: $3,452.41
Cumulative Payments: $414,289.18
Total Interest Paid: $114,289.18

Vs.

Less expensive school cost over 10 years repayment:
Loan Balance: $170,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Term: 10 years
Monthly Loan Payment: $1,956.37
Cumulative Payments: $234,763.65
Total Interest Paid: $64,763.65


If you push that to a income repayment over 25 years you'd be looking at:

Expensive School:
Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Loan Term: 25 years
Monthly Loan Payment: $2,082.22
Cumulative Payments: $624,663.10
Total Interest Paid: $324,663.10

Cheaper School:
Loan Balance: $170,000.00
Loan Term: 25 years
Monthly Loan Payment: $1,179.92
Cumulative Payments: $353,978.03
Total Interest Paid: $183,978.03

ETA: This doesn't include any loan origination fees (~1% for stafford loans and little over 4% for grad plus loans). It also assumes that you are paying off all of the interest while you are still in school - if you don't do that, the total amount paid will be higher because graduate loans are unsubsidized so interest starts accruing and capitalizing as soon as you take out the loan.

 

[cdo96]

Would you rather go to a school that has everything you want, but pay out of state tuition? Or would you go to a school you don't particularly like at all if it had in-state tuition?

This is my current dilemma. I am currently trying to choose between out of state 'dream' and in state 'eh'.
First, I want to go to the University of Tennessee (out of state) which has everything that I want. An amazing teaching hospital, affordable pet-friendly housing, the people are amazing and nice, only 1.5yr didactic work, which means 2.5 worth of clinicals. great ophthalmology department (what I am wanting to specialize in), etc. BUT it would cost about $79,000 a year factoring in tuition and cost of living... with the only option for in-state tuition being if I married someone out there lol
My total cost for education would be over 300,000 which is insanely expensive imo.

OR

I could go to my 'in-state' school which is through the WIMU program. I would attend Utah State for the first 2 years and then transfer out to Washington. Though this is a great program, I worry about hands on learning at Utah state because there is no teaching hospital, they don't have many (if any) ophthalmology opportunities, and housing is less than desirable. for example, google "pet friendly housing" in Knoxville you get back 144 results... in Logan, UT you only receive a dismal 7. A lot of the classes are satellite as well meaning you see the slideshow but only hear the professor's voice through speakers because he is teaching from Washington.
This all being said, they do have some positive such as a small class size of only 30 students and the financial gains are extreme. For my full 4 year cost at this school would be about 170,000 which is HALF the price of Tennessee

I feel as though I am being a complete idiot for having this dilemma at all but I just had an 'off' feeling with Utah State and I don't quite know why. Has anyone gone through the program and can put me at ease? is it worth sticking out the 2 tough years to eventually make it to Washington?

And on another note, is it even worth saving that money if I plan on going through PSLF for loan repayment?
(I would end up paying the same amount overall regardless actual debt amount, most likely about 70-80k before forgiveness)
AND to add in another factor of confusion, the way Trump is swinging, should I even put that much confidence in that plan seeing as he is trying to discontinue PSLF for everyone?!

Help!

As a first year (at Oklahoma State), I have to say my “hands on learning” is very minimum. It’s been from anatomy, histology, parasitology, and immunology. 3/4 of those don’t involve touching the animal, and 4/4 of those don’t involve touching live animals. We had one class last semester and I touched basically one of each type of animal to do something, but other than that the majority of the first two years, you don’t really get to do much involving animals. So in this situation, while a teaching hospital would be nice to go look at animals, you’re going to be very very busy having pathways, transporters, and parasitological life cycles crammed down your throat that you won’t have time to go over there. Plus, you’ll be over at WSU when it matters- 3rd and 4th year.

Unless you have an absolutely critical reason not to go to the cheaper school, go to the cheaper route.

All vet schools will produce good veterinarians. Go the cheaper route so that way if you can to take the internship & eventual residency that you like (Opthamology) instead of the job that pays more money.

Because internship and residency salaries are tiiiiiiiny, and I promise that you don’t want to be sitting on & trying to repay ~$325K of debt when you’re making <$35,000 for 4-5 years after graduation.

 

[cdo96]

Cumulative Payments: $624,663.10

this number makes me want to vomit.


Good things vets are money hungry people who drive fancy cars, and clearly don’t love animals because if they truly loved animals they would do it FOR FREE.

 

[britzen]

Some thoughts on PSLF:

1. Based on the stories coming out about PSLF I would not count on that program being around in 15 years. I'd be surprised if it lasted another 5 honestly, and not just because of Trump specifically. It was not well thought out and not well implemented, and doesn't seem like it will be viable in the long-term.

2. To qualify for PSLF you'd have to work for a qualifying agency for 10 years continuously - are you sure you can find and secure such employment? And that you'd would be able to and want to do it continuously for 10 years?

You say you want to specialize in ophthalmology - I literally cannot think of a single job in the veterinary profession that would qualify for PSLF and require a veterinary ophthalmologist outside of a job at a veterinary school... Did you have some specific job in mind that would qualify?

On a side not for specializing, keep in mind that you probably won't be able to afford to make loan payments for the years that it takes to go through internship/residencies. So you'd be looking at tens of thousands of dollars of extra debt (if not six figures worth) before you even started repaying your loans.

3. I don't think all of your loans will be eligible for PSLF at the more expensive school. The aggregate loan limit for government stafford loans for health profession students caps out at $224,000. (Anybody who is more familiar with the borrowing process want to answer that...? @DVMDream maybe? You'll be taking your debt to the grave, right? )

I don't know if there is any other type of loan that you could get that would be eligible for PSLF, but if that cap is the limit then not all of your debt would be forgiven, just the specific government loans that qualify.

 

[britzen]

this number makes me want to vomit.


Good things vets are money hungry people who drive fancy cars, and clearly don’t love animals because if they truly loved animals they would do it FOR FREE.

The fanciest of cars! Mercedes dealerships take down payments in the form of kitten cuddles, right?

 

[ZZ801832]

Vet school will only affect you for 4 years, loans will affect you your whole life. Go to the cheapest!

 

[Lab Vet]

Hi OP. Thanks for stopping by with your question. I'm here to comment on the USU-WSU program. Although I didn't grow up in Utah, I spent many of my adult years living in both Logan and Salt Lake. I absolutely loved it in both places (for different reasons), and would return to the area in a heartbeat. I'd love to relocate back to that area in the future, and keep a close eye on the Intermountain West job market for positions in my discipline. Unfortunately, UT-ID-MT-WY isn't a hotbed of activity for biomedical research- jobs are few and far between for lab animal vets, but they do come up occasionally.

I had a large dog in Logan (where USU is located), and had no problem finding dog-friendly housing. I rented an entire house for about $500 per month. The cost of living is amazing- super reasonable, plus the mountain view on all sides! Logan is a cross between a college town and a farm community, with plenty of agriculture surrounding the campus. Many people have dogs- they're everywhere! You shouldn't have any trouble locating a place that allows you to keep a dog. Also check out the surrounding communities- Hyrum, Smithfield. The commute would be very doable.

As for USU, the veterinary training program was established one year prior to my application date- 2013 (first graduating class, 2017). I applied to USU in 2014. It was the first program that accepted me, and I was over the moon happy! I loved the idea of the small class size, and would have been jazzed to stay in Logan. Like I said, loved it there. I wasn't thrilled about having to relocate to Pullman in two years (not that I had any problems with the Palouse; it was the emotional/financial investment in relocation that gets me), but would have done just fine. USU has a large, successful Department of Animal Sciences with plenty of animals to keep you busy throughout the first two years. Although you don't have a teaching hospital at your disposal, there are plenty of practices in the area (large, small, and mixed) that I'm sure would be happy to have you tag along. From memory, this may also be required. Not sure, but you may want to look into it. You'll also be learning basic examination skills, etc. on USU's home teaching herds of cattle, equine, and swine.

I had signed my acceptance form and paid my deposit for the WIMU program. Was totally stoked to start there in the summer. Out of the blue, I received my last acceptance of the admissions cycle- NCSU. I had long written NCSU off, as it is very hard to gain admission as an OOS student. Many qualified OOS applicants are turned away each year. I'm convinced (no hard evidence here, just my opinion) that the admissions game in vet schools has as much to do with class composition (diversity, in a all aspects) as it does with a given applicant's qualifications. I was shocked tat I had been admitted. I had wanted to attend NCSU for years, long before I ever applied, and long before the current teaching hospital was ever built. The proximity of NCSU to research triangle park, and a developed specialty in lab animal medicine were what originally drew me to the program. That....AND the ability to obtain in-state tuition after my first year. When I did the math, the price difference between NCSU and USU/WSU was nearly the same. I made the difficult decision to turn down my acceptance to USU/WSU, and started in Raleigh that summer. I'm happy with the decision I made to attend NCSU, but think that I would have been equally happy at USU/WSU for different reasons. It was a difficult decision. I really liked the culture of WSU- very friendly group. I also quite enjoy the 'middle of nowhere' and would have been happier, environment wise, in Logan/Pullman than I currently am in Raleigh (as far as location is concerned).

You mention that you'd like to pursue a specialty in Ophthalmology. I just finished my rotation on NCSU's Ophthalmology block, and talked with our faculty and house staff a bit about their process. It's quite competitive, and the decision makers expect you to have demonstrated evidence of commitment to be considered a serious contender. You should head on over to our recent thread 'factors when picking a school,' and read posters differing opinions on the significance of tracking. Most veterinary schools give their students a certain number of clinical blocks to travel offsite to gain experience in an area of expertise. A quick search of the website reveals that WSU has an Ophthalmologist on staff, and that a large Ophtho private practice exists not far away in Spokane. I'd speak with the WSU folks and inquire what the Ophtho exposure will be throughout your clinical year. Also, be sure to ask about offsite experiences where you can travel to outside practices. You'll want to do that anyway, if you're serious about the pursuit of advanced training.

And then....there's the internship year. That's a big step between your graduation from vet school, and acceptance to a specialty residency. You've got to complete the internship year (traditionally focused on medicine, surgery, and emergency) before you even come close to an Ophthalmology residency. Some disciplines, Ophtho included, are also adopting the requirements of a rotating PLUS specialty internship before even being considered for a residency. The point is, you've got a LONG way to go before you apply for the Ophtho residency match. You need to learn how to be a doctor before you become an ophthalmologist. USU/WSU will do a fine job of that. The program is now fully accredited. I've heard wonderful things about WSU. Maybe what you need is a reframing of your perspective. Success in vet school (and your future career) has more to do with the individual student than it does with the school. It's really up to you to pave the way for your career.

Not having clinical exposure to a teaching hospital in the first two years is far from a deal breaker, in my opinion. I didn't set foot in NCSU's small animal hospital (other than being a client with my own pets) until the start of my fourth year. Many of my classmates did (the opportunities were there), but I had different goals. Do I think my clinical education suffered in the least? Maybe in the beginning, while I was learning the ropes. Any teaching hospital can be challenging to navigate, and electronic data management systems can be a bear to wrap your head around. Now that I'm in the final stretch, we're on equal ground. If there ever was a deficiency on my end, that 'lack' was on me- not the school. My classmates who had 'hung out' in the teaching hospital throughout years 1-3 had a bit of a head start, but now we're on equal ground.

Just throwing in my support for USU/WSU. I LOVED living in Logan and Salt Lake (moved there from California, and couldn't be happier with the decision). If you were accepted to USU in state, I'm assuming you're a resident of UT. Which part? You're welcome to send me a message to inquire about the area/program, if that's something you'd be interested in doing.

Best of luck with your decision. Either school will turn you into a veterinarian, which is the goal you're after at this stage. I highly recommend that you read the thread surrounding tracking ('factors when picking a school') as recent conversations on that board touch on your very concerns. You'll see a variety of opinions there (mine included). Say hi to Utah for me!

 

[SkiOtter]

Go for the cheapesttttttttt

You may want to read through this thread as there are some good responses to a very similar question to yours
I’m gonna quote one of my responses from there because it applies to you as well.

Okay but think of it this way
Would you rather dig yourself in a deep deep hole that will take you 2-3 times longer to dig yourself out of? Or go to a cheaper school and be able to pay your loans off a lot quicker and then be debt free faster and not have to have tens of thousands of dollars looming over your head?

 

[SkiOtter]

Also, is there any way that we can, like, plaster these numbers on the top of the main pre-vet forum page somewhere so we stop getting threads asking if a student should attend a cheaper school that they think they don't like versus a far more expensive OOS one with "more opportunities/facilities/better ranking/better weather/etc."?

Only partly kidding.

(Not like anyone will actually look at it though.............)

 

[LamJams]

My opinion is, if you have the option between IS/OOS, take a loss and save up so your kids can go to their dream school without worrying about the $$$

 

[battie]

(Not like anyone will actually look at it though.............)

Straight savage

 

[SkiOtter]

Straight savage

Is it not true

 

[battie]

Is it not true

Never said you were wrong. Lol. It's like those posts a while back where we were all just saying, "There's a search button...."

 

[DVMDream]

Never said you were wrong. Lol. It's like those posts a while back where we were all just saying, "There's a search button...."

There is a search button..... it is a little pet peeve of mine when people don't at least attempt to use it. I mean, have a little self-guidance, right?

 

[pinkpuppy9]

There is a search button..... it is a little pet peeve of mine when people don't at least attempt to use it. I mean, have a little self-guidance, right?

Sorta like all the questions about a school's interview style...it's all on the school's website.

 

[battie]

Sorta like all the questions about a school's interview style...it's all on the school's website.

And there's an interview review section around here somewhere.

 

[SkiOtter]

And there's an interview review section around here somewhere.

It’s conveniently under SDN Resources

 

[SkiOtter]

Sorta like all the questions about a school's interview style...it's all on the school's website.

You mean I actually have to look on their website to figure out how they do interviews?!?! HOW INCONVENIENT THAT I HAVE TO TAKE 5 MINUTES OUT OF MY TIME TO FIND THAT WHEN I COULD JUST ASK ON HERE AND WAIT 2 HOURS FOR A RESPONSE.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

You mean I actually have to look on their website to figure out how they do interviews?!?! HOW INCONVENIENT THAT I HAVE TO TAKE 5 MINUTES OUT OF MY TIME TO FIND THAT WHEN I COULD JUST ASK ON HERE AND WAIT 2 HOURS FOR A RESPONSE.

lolol.

But for real, whatever the schools want you to know will be on their website. And like has been mentioned multiple times, some schools have you sign a contract agreeing not to reveal interview info.

 

[SkiOtter]

First, I want to go to the University of Tennessee (out of state) which has everything that I want. An amazing teaching hospital, affordable pet-friendly housing, the people are amazing and nice, only 1.5yr didactic work, which means 2.5 worth of clinicals.

Follow up: is this actually a thing? Because if so that sounds like a rough time trying to fit in that much didactic work into 1.5 years instead of like 3 but if they can make it work.....

Paging my favorite UTKer @WildZoo

 

[WildZoo]

Haven't read the rest of the thread but @Veterinary789234 you've got it flipped. 2.5 years in the classroom, 1.5 years in clinics.

 

[britzen]

I mean, have a little self-guidance, right?

 

[WildZoo]

Would you rather go to a school that has everything you want, but pay out of state tuition? Or would you go to a school you don't particularly like at all if it had in-state tuition?

This is my current dilemma. I am currently trying to choose between out of state 'dream' and in state 'eh'.
First, I want to go to the University of Tennessee (out of state) which has everything that I want. An amazing teaching hospital, affordable pet-friendly housing, the people are amazing and nice, only 1.5yr didactic work, which means 2.5 worth of clinicals. great ophthalmology department (what I am wanting to specialize in), etc. BUT it would cost about $79,000 a year factoring in tuition and cost of living... with the only option for in-state tuition being if I married someone out there lol
My total cost for education would be over 300,000 which is insanely expensive imo.

OR

I could go to my 'in-state' school which is through the WIMU program. I would attend Utah State for the first 2 years and then transfer out to Washington. Though this is a great program, I worry about hands on learning at Utah state because there is no teaching hospital, they don't have many (if any) ophthalmology opportunities, and housing is less than desirable. for example, google "pet friendly housing" in Knoxville you get back 144 results... in Logan, UT you only receive a dismal 7. A lot of the classes are satellite as well meaning you see the slideshow but only hear the professor's voice through speakers because he is teaching from Washington.
This all being said, they do have some positive such as a small class size of only 30 students and the financial gains are extreme. For my full 4 year cost at this school would be about 170,000 which is HALF the price of Tennessee

I feel as though I am being a complete idiot for having this dilemma at all but I just had an 'off' feeling with Utah State and I don't quite know why. Has anyone gone through the program and can put me at ease? is it worth sticking out the 2 tough years to eventually make it to Washington?

And on another note, is it even worth saving that money if I plan on going through PSLF for loan repayment?
(I would end up paying the same amount overall regardless actual debt amount, most likely about 70-80k before forgiveness)
AND to add in another factor of confusion, the way Trump is swinging, should I even put that much confidence in that plan seeing as he is trying to discontinue PSLF for everyone?!

Help!

Don't get me wrong, I adore my school. I'm very, very happy here. But
1) It was the only acceptance I got and
2) I was able to get in state tuition after one year, and knew going in that there was a high chance I would be able to do that (marrying a TN resident does work out nicely).

I could talk up UTK forever, because it really is a great school, but there is nothing about it that is worth the extra money. There really isn't. I would say there isn't a single vet school in existence that has so much to offer over any other that it is worth 1.7k extra in loans, without even mentioning interest.

You are absolutely free to make your own decision but don't expect anyone here to justify it for you.

3. I don't think all of your loans will be eligible for PSLF at the more expensive school. The aggregate loan limit for government stafford loans for health profession students caps out at $224,000. (Anybody who is more familiar with the borrowing process want to answer that...? @DVMDream maybe? You'll be taking your debt to the grave, right? )

I don't know if there is any other type of loan that you could get that would be eligible for PSLF, but if that cap is the limit then not all of your debt would be forgiven, just the specific government loans that qualify.

Are GradPlus loans elligible? Because if not then yeah, you can only get 40.5k a year from the regular (?) loans, if you need more you have to apply for grad plus, and I think you can get up to 35k from that.

I'm convinced (no hard evidence here, just my opinion) that the admissions game in vet schools has as much to do with class composition (diversity, in a all aspects) as it does with a given applicant's qualifications.

This is absolutely true for some schools. Or at least it's true for UTK, they talk a lot about how every cycle the dean hand picks people to build a cohesive and diverse class, and when they pull people from waitlists it's about filling that spot in the class, which is why they don't necessarily follow a ranked list.

 

[WildZoo]

I will say that you probably have to work pretty hard to hit that 79k a year in total cost of attendance (just in case there are any future OOS UTK students reading this thread). They overestimate quite a bit. I was somewhere in the 65-70k range first year.

Still not ideal of course.

 

[britzen]

Are GradPlus loans elligible? Because if not then yeah, you can only get 40.5k a year from the regular (?) loans, if you need more you have to apply for grad plus, and I think you can get up to 35k from that.

A quick google search says yes, so I take it back. If the loan combo is regular loans + plus loans, looks like the whole amount would qualify for PSLF.

Assuming, again, that the program still exists 15 years from now... Which seems unlikely, imo.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

@Abnerrs is the only person I know of who went through the Logan program, but she's not super active here anymore. A quick search brings up conversations she's contributed to before:

I liked it. Honestly there are some pros and there are somes cons to going through that program. And Logan is really cheap for living expenses. I had a 2bd 1.5ba townhouse with a carport, w/d, dishwasher, little storage unit, and a fireplace for $620/mo. Pullman is much more expensive.

If you got offered a spot in Pullman you can apply for IS after your first year. You can't do that if you go through the Utah program. You pay OOS all 4 years. By the way I saw it, I was OOS everywhere, Nevada doesn't have a school. And it's not that bad for tuition in that regard. And especially if they still do the 8k/year tuition assistance for the OOS Utah students. It made it fairly "cheap" as an OOS.

Logan is beautiful, way more stuff to do outside than Pullman. But not much in the way of bars etc of you're into that.

It's only 30 students. And marking yes doesn't preclude you from going to Pullman. They put you where they think you will be most successful.

No, there isn't a vth in Logan. The program is only 5 years old. But they have an agriculture program there so I was doing embryo transfers and placing cannulas in my first 2 years on my own time with one of the professors.

It is not a stand alone vet school. So you get your degree from WSU.

I'm not sure what you're asking about varied caseload? You can get a job your first few years but your interactions with live animals is minimal on both campuses.

Well you don't REALLY have that at either campus. 4th year is where it's at dude! Lol

You doso SOME animals. For therio and animal handling etc but you get the exact same thing in Logan.

My very best friend is a Pullman student in my class. Trust me, you're over thinking it. Our educations are so so similar. And in some areas mine was better.

The program isn't for everyone though I suppose. But it's less spots you're competing for.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

@Abnerrs is the only person I know of who went through the Logan program, but she's not super active here anymore. A quick search brings up conversations she's contributed to before:

BTW, if you click on the arrow by 'Abnerrs said:' it will take to to that thread, if you want to read the whole conversation.

 

[WildZoo]

A quick google search says yes, so I take it back. If the loan combo is regular loans + plus loans, looks like the whole amount would qualify for PSLF.

Assuming, again, that the program still exists 15 years from now... Which seems unlikely, imo.

Oh yeah, I definitely wouldn't base anything on that program existing or qualifying for it.

 

[VIN-Foundation]

I've been teaching at University of Tennessee for over 25 years. I agree it's the best veterinary school, mostly because of the outstanding instructors, and all of our students are above average. Plus I have more than passing concerns about the newer schools without a teaching hospital. In other words ... I'm coming at this with EXTREME bias in favor of UT.

But I have to tell you ... $300,000 vs $170,000? It's a no brainer. Go with the less expensive option.

If you or your family are very wealthy and can pay this comfortably without taking any loans, then ignore this and go where you want.

Regarding ophtho, to get an ophtho residency you need high GPA/Class rank, a really good internship and good recommendations. Where you went to school won't matter.

Regarding PSLF, academic programs are almost all not for profit. If you do an academic internship, +/- academic specialty internship and an academic residency you are half way there. Just get a job at a vet school (easy peasy if you are a boarded ophthalmologist) for 5 years, boom, done. Then go to private practice and watch the dough roll in.

BUT and this is a huge BUT, this only works if PSLF is still intact. And it may very well not be. So please don't factor that into your decision.

William Thomas

 

[Caiter92]

Hopefully Abners will see this and give you more info, but I can tell you my classmates that are at USU are very happy there. It’s a small class and they’re very close, and they preferred their anatomy set up to what we had at WSU (comparative vs a semester of SA and semester of LA). There are a few classes unfortunately that are either recorded from WSU or teleconferenced in, but not many. We have two classes this semester that are teleconferenced with USU and I believe they’ve had another that they watched recordings of in lecture, but other than that we’ve just had a few lectures here and there where it was a special topic that was online. I wouldn’t worry too much about that, it’s definitely not a majority of your classes.

For housing, USU has their own FB group (in addition to the main WSU one), and current 1st and 2nd years will post there looking for roommates or if they are leaving and their apartment is available for rent. Housing is cheaper there than Pullman from my understanding.

I know there are some complaints about the lack of teaching hospital the first two years, but local veterinarians in the area let students come for their “intro to clinics” (we’re required to do a few hours every semester). You may be able to find one who is willing to let you routinely shadow if you want. But you’ll have all third and fourth year to make connections in the VTH, so I wouldn’t be worried

There should already be FB groups for WSU c/o 2022 and USU c/o 2022. Join them and talk to upperclassman about their experiences. I think that would help

 

[missdarjeeling]

AND to add in another factor of confusion, the way Trump is swinging, should I even put that much confidence in that plan seeing as he is trying to discontinue PSLF for everyone?!

Adding to the chorus saying not to assume this program will still be in place. The proposal to gut PSLF is still in committee, but there's a non-zero chance it will make it into the proposed Higher Education Act updates that end up on the House floor for a vote and that it will eventually squeak by both the House and Senate. In addition to gutting PSLF, the current proposals have changes that will screw everyone else, too, like lowering the total amount you can take out in ANY graduate loans considerably, to the extent that a ton of vet students across the country may have no choice but to take out private loans. If they do this quickly enough without any grandfathering or any kind of gradual introduction, some of us currently in school may be affected, which is quite literally something that keeps me up at night.

It's by no means certain that things will radically change, but it's also by no means certain that they will stay the same, so if I were in your shoes, I'd err on the side of caution and go with the cheaper option.

 

[LetItSnow]

There's not really a dilemma here. With that cost difference - go to the cheaper school.

I personally would not count on PSLF. It's a ways down the road for you and whoooooo knows if it will be around. Even if it's technically around, it has to be funded. You're putting a lot of trust in things outside your control if you just "assume" you'll be able to go that route to throw away the debt.

 

[Veterinary789234]

Hi OP. Thanks for stopping by with your question. I'm here to comment on the USU-WSU program. Although I didn't grow up in Utah, I spent many of my adult years living in both Logan and Salt Lake. I absolutely loved it in both places (for different reasons), and would return to the area in a heartbeat. I'd love to relocate back to that area in the future, and keep a close eye on the Intermountain West job market for positions in my discipline. Unfortunately, UT-ID-MT-WY isn't a hotbed of activity for biomedical research- jobs are few and far between for lab animal vets, but they do come up occasionally.

I had a large dog in Logan (where USU is located), and had no problem finding dog-friendly housing. I rented an entire house for about $500 per month. The cost of living is amazing- super reasonable, plus the mountain view on all sides! Logan is a cross between a college town and a farm community, with plenty of agriculture surrounding the campus. Many people have dogs- they're everywhere! You shouldn't have any trouble locating a place that allows you to keep a dog. Also check out the surrounding communities- Hyrum, Smithfield. The commute would be very doable.

As for USU, the veterinary training program was established one year prior to my application date- 2013 (first graduating class, 2017). I applied to USU in 2014. It was the first program that accepted me, and I was over the moon happy! I loved the idea of the small class size, and would have been jazzed to stay in Logan. Like I said, loved it there. I wasn't thrilled about having to relocate to Pullman in two years (not that I had any problems with the Palouse; it was the emotional/financial investment in relocation that gets me), but would have done just fine. USU has a large, successful Department of Animal Sciences with plenty of animals to keep you busy throughout the first two years. Although you don't have a teaching hospital at your disposal, there are plenty of practices in the area (large, small, and mixed) that I'm sure would be happy to have you tag along. From memory, this may also be required. Not sure, but you may want to look into it. You'll also be learning basic examination skills, etc. on USU's home teaching herds of cattle, equine, and swine.

I had signed my acceptance form and paid my deposit for the WIMU program. Was totally stoked to start there in the summer. Out of the blue, I received my last acceptance of the admissions cycle- NCSU. I had long written NCSU off, as it is very hard to gain admission as an OOS student. Many qualified OOS applicants are turned away each year. I'm convinced (no hard evidence here, just my opinion) that the admissions game in vet schools has as much to do with class composition (diversity, in a all aspects) as it does with a given applicant's qualifications. I was shocked tat I had been admitted. I had wanted to attend NCSU for years, long before I ever applied, and long before the current teaching hospital was ever built. The proximity of NCSU to research triangle park, and a developed specialty in lab animal medicine were what originally drew me to the program. That....AND the ability to obtain in-state tuition after my first year. When I did the math, the price difference between NCSU and USU/WSU was nearly the same. I made the difficult decision to turn down my acceptance to USU/WSU, and started in Raleigh that summer. I'm happy with the decision I made to attend NCSU, but think that I would have been equally happy at USU/WSU for different reasons. It was a difficult decision. I really liked the culture of WSU- very friendly group. I also quite enjoy the 'middle of nowhere' and would have been happier, environment wise, in Logan/Pullman than I currently am in Raleigh (as far as location is concerned).

You mention that you'd like to pursue a specialty in Ophthalmology. I just finished my rotation on NCSU's Ophthalmology block, and talked with our faculty and house staff a bit about their process. It's quite competitive, and the decision makers expect you to have demonstrated evidence of commitment to be considered a serious contender. You should head on over to our recent thread 'factors when picking a school,' and read posters differing opinions on the significance of tracking. Most veterinary schools give their students a certain number of clinical blocks to travel offsite to gain experience in an area of expertise. A quick search of the website reveals that WSU has an Ophthalmologist on staff, and that a large Ophtho private practice exists not far away in Spokane. I'd speak with the WSU folks and inquire what the Ophtho exposure will be throughout your clinical year. Also, be sure to ask about offsite experiences where you can travel to outside practices. You'll want to do that anyway, if you're serious about the pursuit of advanced training.

And then....there's the internship year. That's a big step between your graduation from vet school, and acceptance to a specialty residency. You've got to complete the internship year (traditionally focused on medicine, surgery, and emergency) before you even come close to an Ophthalmology residency. Some disciplines, Ophtho included, are also adopting the requirements of a rotating PLUS specialty internship before even being considered for a residency. The point is, you've got a LONG way to go before you apply for the Ophtho residency match. You need to learn how to be a doctor before you become an ophthalmologist. USU/WSU will do a fine job of that. The program is now fully accredited. I've heard wonderful things about WSU. Maybe what you need is a reframing of your perspective. Success in vet school (and your future career) has more to do with the individual student than it does with the school. It's really up to you to pave the way for your career.

Not having clinical exposure to a teaching hospital in the first two years is far from a deal breaker, in my opinion. I didn't set foot in NCSU's small animal hospital (other than being a client with my own pets) until the start of my fourth year. Many of my classmates did (the opportunities were there), but I had different goals. Do I think my clinical education suffered in the least? Maybe in the beginning, while I was learning the ropes. Any teaching hospital can be challenging to navigate, and electronic data management systems can be a bear to wrap your head around. Now that I'm in the final stretch, we're on equal ground. If there ever was a deficiency on my end, that 'lack' was on me- not the school. My classmates who had 'hung out' in the teaching hospital throughout years 1-3 had a bit of a head start, but now we're on equal ground.

Just throwing in my support for USU/WSU. I LOVED living in Logan and Salt Lake (moved there from California, and couldn't be happier with the decision). If you were accepted to USU in state, I'm assuming you're a resident of UT. Which part? You're welcome to send me a message to inquire about the area/program, if that's something you'd be interested in doing.

Best of luck with your decision. Either school will turn you into a veterinarian, which is the goal you're after at this stage. I highly recommend that you read the thread surrounding tracking ('factors when picking a school') as recent conversations on that board touch on your very concerns. You'll see a variety of opinions there (mine included). Say hi to Utah for me!

Thank you so much for your thoughtful post. I truly do appreciate it and it helps a lot having someone else's perspective. I feel as though I am being pulled two different directions, all my friends and family and fellow doctors at my hospitals want me to go to Tennessee but my pocketbook wants me to go to USU lol.
It helps a lot to hear an impartial opinion where they aren't just saying "follow your dreams and forget about the cost!"
Because the cost DOES matter. Quite a lot actually lol.

Thank you again. This helps me get a clearer understanding, though I would love to know where you got housing for $500!! Jealous! Everywhere I have looked and with all the students I spoke to in logan say it's about 1,000/month to find a rental.
(Border line thinking about buying a trailer home and living there )

 

[DVMdreamcometrue]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful post. I truly do appreciate it and it helps a lot having someone else's perspective. I feel as though I am being pulled two different directions, all my friends and family and fellow doctors at my hospitals want me to go to Tennessee but my pocketbook wants me to go to USU lol.

Ask your friends and family and fellow doctors if they're willing to chip in for repayments of your student loan if you go to Tennessee

 

[JaynaAli]

Your friends and family aren’t the ones who are going to be stuck with all that debt. So while it is important to include them in conversations and listen to their thoughts, ultimately it is up to you. And as far as your veterinary mentors go, I am very surprised that practicing vets would counsel you for the more expensive place. It makes me wonder if these vets are older graduates or ones graduating within the last few years, because things have definitely been changing fairly rapidly in that regard.

 

[Lab Vet]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful post. I truly do appreciate it and it helps a lot having someone else's perspective. I feel as though I am being pulled two different directions, all my friends and family and fellow doctors at my hospitals want me to go to Tennessee but my pocketbook wants me to go to USU lol.
It helps a lot to hear an impartial opinion where they aren't just saying "follow your dreams and forget about the cost!"
Because the cost DOES matter. Quite a lot actually lol.

Thank you again. This helps me get a clearer understanding, though I would love to know where you got housing for $500!! Jealous! Everywhere I have looked and with all the students I spoke to in logan say it's about 1,000/month to find a rental.
(Border line thinking about buying a trailer home and living there )

I had insider info for the house- lucked out. Knowing the housing market in the area, though, 1K per month for a 1 bedroom seems a bit steep. Look a bit farther out. I think you'll be presently surprised.

Yes, the debt matters- a lot. Your degree of debt will dictate your flexibility in taking a position (as well as state/city of relocation) post-graduation. I would not have accepted my slot at NCSU had the price differential been significant. I stand by my opinion that you have sole responsibility for the direction of your career. School prepares you, but you've got to grab the bull by the horns and blaze your own trail to success. ALL accredited programs in the US prepare you to be a solid, entry level practitioner. The rest is up to you. I refer you to @LetItSnow 's opinion of tracking, which is different than my own. Both of these perspectives are valid, and should give you some interesting food for thought. You can make it as an ophthalmologist by attending USU/WSU. Get to know the Ophtho faculty out in Pullman and arrange to complete externships at the private referral practice in Spokane. While you're in Logan, find out if there are any Ophtho folks in SLC. It's 90 miles from Logan to SLC- too far to commute back and forth on a daily basis, but doable for an externship/weekend. Also look into southern Idaho (Boise, perhaps Meridian). Get creative and be 'aggressive' (for lack of a better word) in finding opportunities and making them happen.

No disrespect to UTK...wonderful school, I'm sure (had a visitor from UTK on my Ophtho block and she was lovely). The price differential here is astronomical, though. Plus...I just love Utah. Good luck, OP. Let us know what you decide.

 

[Abnerrs]

@Abnerrs is the only person I know of who went through the Logan program, but she's not super active here anymore. A quick search brings up conversations she's contributed to before:

I'm here I'm here!

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I'm here I'm here!

You're here!