accepted to both md and do school

[joshtb86]

i was accepted to both a do school and an md school but im not 100% sure of where to go.. does anyone know about the real disadvantages for residency placing of do candidates?
i checked out the match list of the do school from last year.. no one was placed into any surgical residencies although there were a bunch of internship and transitional ones

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[theserbatron]

i was accepted to both a do school and an md school but im not 100% sure of where to go.. does anyone know about the real disadvantages for residency placing of do candidates?
i checked out the match list of the do school from last year.. no one was placed into any surgical residencies although there were a bunch of internship and transitional ones

most will tell you that there aren't any disadvantage. DOs can apply to DO residencies and allopathic (MD) residencies as well, and a significant number of DO graduates end up in allopathic residencies after their medical education is completed. there are DOs in every discipline, and they are there bc they worked hard to get there, not because they went to a certain kind of school.

from the stand point of getting into a competitive residencies like surgery, a DO education will not hurt you. how you perform in your classes, your rotations, and licensing exams will have more of an effect on your placement than the title of your degree. you're better off asking some students at the school how they feel, how they've been perceived, as asking on SDN is a shot in the dark.

which school did you feel better at? was there one that you identified with or liked me? compare also the quality of education, the standing of the school, the cost... those are all important factors to consider as well.

 

[nascardoc]

While the match list is a good place to look, the bad thing is that ir changes from year to year depending on what that particular class was interesting in doing. If there aren't a lot of people interested in surgery, then you won't find many people placing into surgery. Does that mean the school is bad in that field....no. It is a variable thing.

As for what school, I suggest going to the school you feel the best about. What school gives you that feeling deep in your gut that its the right place for you? For me, which ever school gave me that feeling would be the school I go to. Sometimes I think we all get too bogged down into looking at this list and that list when choosing schools that you forget to go to the place that will make you happiest being at. I don't think you can go wrong choosing that school - regardless if it be DO or MD.

What schools are you choosing between?

 

[joshtb86]

UMDNJ-SOM and Jefferson Medical College

 

[sexyman]

If money isnt an issue go to Jeff.

 

[spazzz]

go to jeff. it's a different environment, but in the end you'll be getting one of the best medical educations in philly.

 

[Vano]

MD, unless there are personal circumstances that make it more preferable to go to DO school. MDs do have easier time placing into competitive specialties, some programs simply don't accept DO graduates. As far as I know DO schools place emphasis on holistic medicine and primary care(these aren't tough to get into).

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

MD, unless there are personal circumstances that make it more preferable to go to DO school. MDs do have easier time placing into competitive specialties, some programs simply don't accept DO graduates. As far as I know DO schools place emphasis on holistic medicine and primary care(these aren't tough to get into).

Just curious, what programs don't accept DO graduates?

 

[Akamu]

had the same dilemma - now that I am in med school, I realize it does NOT matter at all- just go where you will be happiest- medical school is so ridiculously difficult that all you'll be focused on is doing well!

 

[TexasTriathlete]

The answer is Jeff.

 

[Gut Shot]

Just curious, what programs don't accept DO graduates?

There are literally thousands of programs out there, and you probably won't find any programs that explicitly state "we do not accept DOs." What you will find (mostly by word of mouth) are programs that don't have DOs, have rarely or never had DOs, and don't intend to take DOs in the future. Some of this may be discrimination in some form, some of it may be justified, some of it may be due to DOs making up a small percentage of a highly qualified applicant pool.

 

[Gut Shot]

there are DOs in every discipline, and they are there bc they worked hard to get there, not because they went to a certain kind of school.

This is a faulty argument. There was a black man appointed to the Supreme Court in 1967... this does not indicate that there was no discrimination against blacks in the 1960's.

 

[arboth]

choose the school you feel most comfortable with. its all about doing well in medical school. jefferson is a great medical school and so is UMDNJ-SOM is a great school as well. Personally, I would pick UMDNJ-SOM...the class size a way smaller! Not sure about UMDNJ-SOM, but Jefferson is ridiculously expensive to attend. Nonetheless, good luck with your decision.

 

[RySerr21]

i was accepted to both a do school and an md school but im not 100% sure of where to go.. does anyone know about the real disadvantages for residency placing of do candidates?
i checked out the match list of the do school from last year.. no one was placed into any surgical residencies although there were a bunch of internship and transitional ones

there is an overwhelming consensus that DO=MD and the education you will receive truly won't vary much besides OMM. however, that being said, there is still a negative stigma among some high ranking MDs (how many, i have no clue) that somehow DOs aren't as qualified, especially for matching at an MD residency. this opinion will clearly put you at a disadvantage. whether you think as a DO you are less qualified doens't matter. also as a DO to applying to a competeive MD residency i think the general consensus is that you must take and do well on the USMLE.

obviously you can always go to a DO residency, but i'm assuming you were asking about MD b/c you referred to the disadvantage for residency placing as a DO....which wouldn't make sense if talkking about DOs applying to DO residencies. obviously there will be no disadvantage there.

here is an example of the negative stigma i hear about from high ranking MDs. its an email from the chief of sports medicne and orthopedic surgery residency director at an MD residency. i asked him if there really was a disadvantage for DOs applying to MD residencies. obviously this is one person and it may vary from residency to residency, but its still insight into what it is like in the minds of some of the people that will be deciding whether or not they want you at their residency program

"Interesting that you ask the question about DO vs MD degree for ortho,
because just this past weekend we did our interviews for the four
resident positions at USF (we had about 500 applications). I think it
is substantially more difficult to get into an ortho residency with a DO
degree (though it is possible: we interviewed a couple of DOs).

My concern with DO training is that the last two years are inconsistent
within and between schools, compared to MD training which is much more
uniform. So residency programs don't really know what they are getting,
and therefore there's a bias against the DO graduates. DO graduates
also don't take the same board tests, which programs use as a key
metric. Without those exams, it makes things much tougher to get an
interview.

As far as the application of OMM to orthopaedic surgery care: this is
not really important at all. What you learn as a resident is far more
important that the things learned in med school or osteopath school. I
think OMM is more relevant to those who choose primary care, and if that
is your goal then I don't have any good advice to provide. I think
primary care docs would be in a better position to tell you."

this is not the final word and i'm sure people will say "not every person feels that way." and thats something you will have to judge for yourself b/c no one really knows how many people do and don't feel that way. but what you do know w/o a doubt is that if you go to an MD program, you won't be at a disadvantage applying to an MD residency. the same can not be said coming from a DO school applying to an MD residency. also note that email was focused specifically on ortho residencies and not other specialites so you may wanna check that out as well. i doubt its the same applying for something like family practice.

 

[spazzz]

oh no, the letter comes out again!!!........

this isn't a DO vs. MD arguement, Jefferson is a better school than UMDNJ.....and it's not in Jersey.....so Jeff all the way

 

[J1515]

there is an overwhelming consensus that DO=MD and the education you will receive truly won't vary much besides OMM. however, that being said, there is still a negative stigma among high ranking MDs that somehow DOs aren't as qualified, especially for matching at an MD residency. this opinion will clearly put you at a disadvantage. whether you think as a DO you are less qualified doens't matter. also as a DO to applying to a competeive MD residency i think the general consensus is that you must take and do well on the USMLE.
obviously you can always go to a DO residency, but i'm assuming you were asking about MD b/c you referred to the disadvantage for residency placing as a DO....which wouldn't make sense if talkking about DOs applying to DO residencies. obviously there will be no disadvantage there.

Dude, for the love of God, PLEASE stop talking out of your ***. You are a pre-med. The OP simply asked about residency. Not MD vs DO, not general surgery vs. orthopedics. I know as a pre-med you are excited to show off how much you know but there is no point in giving advice to a student who is at the same place in his career as you are.

I'm going to get the director of the MD surgery program here at my hospital to write an email saying that he views MDs and DOs on equal footing. Perhaps then you will realize you don't know as much as you think you do based on the view of the 3 doctors you shadowed. If you would like me to approach him for this please by all means let me know.

 

[RySerr21]

oh no, the letter comes out again!!!........

this isn't a DO vs. MD arguement, Jefferson is a better school than UMDNJ.....and it's not in Jersey.....so Jeff all the way

haha. i'm not trying to make it an argument. but the OP asked a question about disadvantages so the letter was appropriate. do you disagree?

i do apologize that you've had read it multiple times though.

 

[RySerr21]

Dude, for the love of God, PLEASE stop talking out of your ***. You are a pre-med. The OP simply asked about residency. Not MD vs DO, not general surgery vs. orthopedics. I know as a pre-med you are excited to show off how much you know but there is no point in giving advice to a student who is at the same place in his career as you are.

I'm going to get the director of the MD surgery program here at my hospital to write an email saying that he views MDs and DOs on equal footing. Perhaps then you will realize you don't know as much as you think you do based on the view of the 3 doctors you shadowed. If you would like me to approach him for this please by all means let me know.

great. i'm sure he does. which is exactly why i said "this not the final word. i'm sure there are people that don't feel this way." but my point was valid, you don't know which doctors hold a bias or not and the truth is that some do. do you deny that? the only way to not fall under the bias of some doctors would be go to an MD program. i don't see how you can deny that.

 

[J1515]

great. i'm sure he does. which is exactly why i said "this not the final word. i'm sure there are people that don't feel this way." but my point was valid, you don't know which doctors hold a bias or not and the truth is that some do. do you deny that? the only way to not fall under the bias of some doctors would be go to an MD program. i don't see how you can deny that.

Yes, I agree there are a few programs that are biased to DOs, as well as FMGs. These are more than made up for by the programs that aren't biased as well as the osteopathic residencies open only to DOs. You choose to leave out that last part though when presenting all the options for a 4th year. If you were a 4th year DO student who had to scramble in the match for a FP residency because he couldn't land his residency of choice then you would be qualified to comment on the process. But until then, if an MD told you amputating your left arm would improve your chances at an allopathic residency, you would come on SDN and pass that along to all the naive pre-meds because you don't know any better.

If I get the PD at my hospital to write a letter stating he views the two degrees on equal footing, will you post that email daily as well?

 

[physicsnerd42]

i was accepted to both a do school and an md school but im not 100% sure of where to go.. does anyone know about the real disadvantages for residency placing of do candidates?
i checked out the match list of the do school from last year.. no one was placed into any surgical residencies although there were a bunch of internship and transitional ones

I'm going to take what I'm sure is an unpopular position, but you need the information. I would, all things being equal, go to the MD school if you want a competitive residency. Can a DO students get into an allopathic residency in a competitive specialty? Sure. Heck, the chair of Ortho at my (MD) school is a DO. That does not mean, however, that the difficulty of getting a spot at a competitive allopathic residency program is equal for an osteopathic medical grad and allopathic medical grad. If you are a DO and want to beat an MD for that competitive spot, the rest of your application needs to be MUCH better than theirs. Look, for instance, at (most of) the results for the neurosurgery match that took place last month. From what I can tell, more IMGs matched at allopathic neurourgery residencies than DO schools.

There are DO residencies available for most, if not all, specialties. There are, however, many fewer spots in DO residencies for competitive specialties when compared to the number of available MD residency spots. This is due to, among other things, the poor planning of the AOA. The competition for these competitive DO-only spots will only increase as new osteopathic schools continue to be built while the number of residency spots in competitive specialties remains unchanged.

I honestly don't think that there is much difference between the medical education you will get at a good DO school vs. most MD schools. You will, however, have much more difficulty securing a spot in a competitive residency than an MD candidate if you go to an osteopathic school. This difficulty is not insurmountable, it just means that you need to have a stronger application than if you had come from a MD school.

 

[J1515]

There are DO residencies available for most, if not all, specialties. There are, however, many fewer spots in DO residencies for competitive specialties when compared to the number of available MD residency spots.

You forgetting there are far fewer DOs applying for DO spots than MDs applying for MD spots?

the results for the neurosurgery match that took place last month. From what I can tell, more IMGs matched at allopathic neurourgery residencies than DO schools.

You are again forgetting about the osteopathic match. The DO match comes before the MD match and upon acceptance to an osteopathic residency you must withdraw from the MD residency. Is that to say the accepted DO student wouldn't get accepted in the MD match? Maybe yes, maybe no. But I can pretty much guarantee you 99% of students aren't going to withdraw from the DO match in hopes of landing an allopathic spot.

 

[physicsnerd42]

You forgetting there are far fewer DOs applying for DO spots than MDs applying for MD spots?

You are absolutely correct that there are fewer DOs applying (since there are four times as many MD students as DO students currently, although that ratio will shrink since the rate of growth of osteopathic medical school spots is much greater than the rate of growth of allopathic spots). There are however, only nine DO neurosurgery residency programs and >100 MD neurosurgery residency programs. I'm not going to go through and count the average number of spots per program (and I'd guess that there are more MD spots per program, on average, due to huge places like Barrow, UCSF, Hopkins, Harvard, etc.). So, even normalizing for the greater number of MD students vs. DO students in the country (and assuming that the average number of spots per program is equal), there are 3x as many residency spots in allopathic residency programs to train neurosurgeons as there are in osteopathic programs:

Assume 1 spot per residency (which isn't true, but assume it): 9 osteo residencies x 4 (to normalize for the ratio of allopathicsteopathic students) = 36 spots. In allo, there are >100 spots. >100/36 = ~ 3. This disparity will continue to increase as, like I said, new osteopathic schools open at an astonishing pace while the AOA makes no effort to expand the number of DO residency spots. Obviously, the case in neurosurgery is not the case in every specialty (and neurosurgery isn't as competitive as radonc or derm or plastics, etc.), but it is a good case study that is indicative of the state of affairs in medical education in competitive specialties.

Let's look at radonc. As far as I can determine, there are zero osteopathic radiation oncology residencies. There are only ~140 allopathic residency spots. DOs can compete for these spots, but each year only 1-3 DO students typically match: I know this doesn't seem like a reputable source, but I would trust it.

Like I said, it's not that you can't get a competitive residency as a DO. It's not that you're a less qualified physician if you have those two letters after your name vs. someone with the MD. It's just that, due to the numbers (and biases) in current graduate medical education, it's more difficult to secure a spot in a competitive residency as a DO vs. a MD. Part of it is not due to bias vs. DOs, either. It's just that in competitive specialties, there are few people in academic positions and those people know each other. So, if you're at an MD school with a RadOnc residency, your PD can call the PD of the program you want to match in and that will hopefully help you out. Since there are 0 DO radonc residencies, you can't have a PD at your home school call/write letters for you.

 

[J1515]

You are absolutely correct that there are fewer DOs applying (since there are four times as many MD students as DO students currently, although that ratio will shrink since the rate of growth of osteopathic medical school spots is much greater than the rate of growth of allopathic spots). There are however, only nine DO neurosurgery residency programs and >100 MD neurosurgery residency programs. I'm not going to go through and count the average number of spots per program (and I'd guess that there are more MD spots per program, on average, due to huge places like Barrow, UCSF, Hopkins, Harvard, etc.). So, even normalizing for the greater number of MD students vs. DO students in the country (and assuming that the average number of spots per program is equal), there are 3x as many residency spots in allopathic residency programs to train neurosurgeons as there are in osteopathic programs:

Assume 1 spot per residency (which isn't true, but assume it): 9 osteo residencies x 4 (to normalize for the ratio of allopathicsteopathic students) = 36 spots. In allo, there are >100 spots. >100/36 = ~ 3. This disparity will continue to increase as, like I said, new osteopathic schools open at an astonishing pace while the AOA makes no effort to expand the number of DO residency spots. Obviously, the case in neurosurgery is not the case in every specialty (and neurosurgery isn't as competitive as radonc or derm or plastics, etc.), but it is a good case study that is indicative of the state of affairs in medical education in competitive specialties.

Let's look at radonc. As far as I can determine, there are zero osteopathic radiation oncology residencies. There are only ~140 allopathic residency spots. DOs can compete for these spots, but each year only 1-3 DO students typically match: I know this doesn't seem like a reputable source, but I would trust it.

Like I said, it's not that you can't get a competitive residency as a DO. It's not that you're a less qualified physician if you have those two letters after your name vs. someone with the MD. It's just that, due to the numbers (and biases) in current graduate medical education, it's more difficult to secure a spot in a competitive residency as a DO vs. a MD. Part of it is not due to bias vs. DOs, either. It's just that in competitive specialties, there are few people in academic positions and those people know each other. So, if you're at an MD school with a RadOnc residency, your PD can call the PD of the program you want to match in and that will hopefully help you out. Since there are 0 DO radonc residencies, you can't have a PD at your home school call/write letters for you.

I agree that in the case of RadOnc as a DO student, you are pretty much out of luck. I quickly glanced at the acgme website and running down the page counted 97 neurosurg residencies. So between the fact that there are fewer DO students and I am making the possibly stupid and naive assumption that there is less interest in neurosurgery amongst osteopathic students (based on surveys of the past 3 classes at my school, known to churn out more nonprimary care specialties than some other DO schools - admittedly a very small sample size), I would not say it's "much" more difficult to get a spot at a DO residency.

 

[bluemonkey]

 

[154465]

I'd pick Jefferson without a moment of hesitation.

 

[VALSALVA]

Disclosure: I'm a DO in an MD residency program.

To the OP:

Go to Jefferson. No question about it. That way, you avoid any potential problems with matching, which boards to take, state licensure(sp?), stigmas. etc.

Unless you're truly interested in OMM and are sincerely considering it as a primary field, go to Jefferson.

 

[ak1978]

I would echo what Gut Shot & Valsalva said. At your stage it's hard to know what area of medicine fits you best, as well as whether you are suited for academic medicine. If you intend to apply for an allopathic residency and/or fellowship, an MD WILL make it easier, especially if you want to try for competitive programs. Just to give you my own example-none of the residency programs I interviewed to had DOs or even interviewed DOs, and I'm doing internal medicine. I would venture to say that getting into academic medicine at any large allopathic center would be difficult with a DO. Jeff will definately open doors for you-most of the people on this thread haven't gone through the residency application process.

 

[PatriotsForever]

For a lot of people the DO and MD thing actually is a difference maker. However, I would prefer to go to UMDNJ because it is cheaper and has a smaller class size and you are going to be able to do the exact same thing there as at Jefferson. The cost alone would sway me from going to Jefferson but this is only my opinion!

 

[theserbatron]

This is a faulty argument. There was a black man appointed to the Supreme Court in 1967... this does not indicate that there was no discrimination against blacks in the 1960's.

right... however, i don't think the OP, or anyone else in osteopathic medical school should be overly concerned with how it was for DOs in the past. it is necessary to be mindful of it, yes, but professional decisions should be based on the current climate and outlook for the future. these are all positive for DOs, and this is where my original comment came from. IMO, the limiting factor in your success is not the title, but the work you put in to your education and the relationships you build along the way.

 

[VALSALVA]

right... however, i don't think the OP, or anyone else in osteopathic medical school should be overly concerned with how it was for DOs in the past. it is necessary to be mindful of it, yes, but professional decisions should be based on the current climate and outlook for the future. these are all positive for DOs, and this is where my original comment came from. IMO, the limiting factor in your success is not the title, but the work you put in to your education and the relationships you build along the way.

I wish this were true, but it just ain't. I guess it also depends on one's definition of success, as well. The title can be a stumbling block as well documented in this thread, other threads, and elsewhere. How much work you put into your education doesn't mean squat if you're simply an average medical student (which most students end up being). Relationships (i.e. connections) can be helpful - there's no denying that.

 

[theserbatron]

I wish this were true, but it just ain't. I guess it also depends on one's definition of success, as well. The title can be a stumbling block as well documented in this thread, other threads, and elsewhere. How much work you put into your education doesn't mean squat if you're simply an average medical student (which most students end up being). Relationships (i.e. connections) can be helpful - there's no denying that.

perhaps my perception is limited, as i haven't been through everything to know. i'll do the best i can with the opportunities i have, and if a DO school is the only route I have to being a physician, so be it. at the end of the day, i'll still have opportunities available to me that many others don't have. that means something to me. whether or not i was at a disadvantage for the particular path i wanted remains to be seen (for me). thanks for the feedback tho.

whether or not a DO program is a good decision for the OP (or anyone else reading this), is solely up to them.

 

[silas2642]

i was accepted to both a do school and an md school but im not 100% sure of where to go.. does anyone know about the real disadvantages for residency placing of do candidates?
i checked out the match list of the do school from last year.. no one was placed into any surgical residencies although there were a bunch of internship and transitional ones

Personally I would choose Jefferson. When I was applying, I considered osteopathic schools because I wanted to stay close to home and UNECOM would have kept me only 2.5 hours away from my hometown. Ultimately chose to go allopathic because although I like the osteopathic philosophy and respect DO's greatly, to me it wasn't the right path. Going to a school like Jefferson is definitely going to open doors, and if you choose to pursue a competitive specialty like rads or ortho, it's not going to be nearly as difficult to match into as it would have been had you gone the DO route. To me, osteopathy also means more work-- OMM (which I may or may not be able to use in practice), taking USMLE and COMLEX, etc... it just wasn't for me.

The other thing that Jefferson really has going for it is that it is NOT in New Jersey. That alone should be enough to convince you to choose it as a school. It has a fantastic location in Philly, which will provide you with plenty of great clinical experiences that you might otherwise not see if you were in a more rural area. Of course, who knows what kind of monstrous things they have in NJ. I'm sure they are very scary.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Dude, for the love of God, PLEASE stop talking out of your ***. You are a pre-med. The OP simply asked about residency. Not MD vs DO, not general surgery vs. orthopedics. I know as a pre-med you are excited to show off how much you know but there is no point in giving advice to a student who is at the same place in his career as you are.

I'm going to get the director of the MD surgery program here at my hospital to write an email saying that he views MDs and DOs on equal footing. Perhaps then you will realize you don't know as much as you think you do based on the view of the 3 doctors you shadowed. If you would like me to approach him for this please by all means let me know.

Fo sho. Nothing against Ryyer or pre meds (as I am one), but I do get bothered with this specific argument because I personally witnessed this opinion being forged in one specific thread, and the person in question pull a complete 180 based on these points of view. This is a common problem with the boards. One person gets advice from some random person (who could really be anyone) and they pass it on to another person, who passes it on to another etc etc ... it's like some SDN STD!!!!

I don't know much about Jeff, but it seems like you'll do well either way. I think the question you should really be asking is what qualities should I look for in choosing x school. This way you can evalute both schools based on these qualities, and decide which is best for you in the end.

 

[VALSALVA]

perhaps my perception is limited, as i haven't been through everything to know. i'll do the best i can with the opportunities i have, and if a DO school is the only route I have to being a physician, so be it. at the end of the day, i'll still have opportunities available to me that many others don't have. that means something to me. whether or not i was at a disadvantage for the particular path i wanted remains to be seen (for me). thanks for the feedback tho.

whether or not a DO program is a good decision for the OP (or anyone else reading this), is solely up to them.

Well stated. If given no choice, just do your best and see what happens. I didn't have a choice of DO vs. MD either and things worked out fine for me.

However, going back to the OP's original question...in hindsight, if given a choice I would have chosen MD without hesitation. Having an MD behind my name would have saved me a load of time, money and Maalox. I think that's why I feel so paternal when it comes to this issue. I feel like a parent thinking, "come on son...just make the right choice! Avoid what I had to go through." Hope that makes sense to everyone.

 

[spazzz]

Fo sho. Nothing against Ryyer or pre meds (as I am one), but I do get bothered with this specific argument because I personally witnessed this opinion being forged in one specific thread, and the person in question pull a complete 180 based on these points of view. This is a common problem with the boards. One person gets advice from some random person (who could really be anyone) and they pass it on to another person, who passes it on to another etc etc ... it's like some SDN STD!!!!

I don't know much about Jeff, but it seems like you'll do well either way. I think the question you should really be asking is what qualities should I look for in choosing x school. This way you can evalute both schools based on these qualities, and decide which is best for you in the end.

you're spreading the same STD, go to the better school, not the one that fits you garbage. Jefferson is a better school.

 

[ajk63]

you're spreading the same STD, go to the better school, not the one that fits you garbage. Jefferson is a better school.

are you saying UMNDJ-SOM is signifcantly worse than Jefferson? They appear comparable to me. I'd say go with what fits you best and where you think you'll excell. Isn't it your responsibility to do well in medical school?

 

[VALSALVA]

are you saying UMNDJ-SOM is signifcantly worse than Jefferson? They appear comparable to me. I'd say go with what fits you best and where you think you'll excell. Isn't it your responsibility to do well in medical school?

I'm sure both schools offer an excellent education. As stated ad nauseum on these boards, if you want a maximum number of doors opened for you at a lesser figurative cost, go to the MD school. If you're convinced you want to do Family Med., OMT or peds, then none of this matters. If you think you might want to do something more competitive, go MD...period. Why is this concept lost on so many pre-meds???

Example: Take general surgery for example...a modestly competitive specialty whose MD programs are still more closed to DO's than most comparable fields. Let's say the OP is convinced that an MD Gen. Surg. program is the way to go, but they attended a DO school. That means:

1. They'll need to take both steps of the USMLE ($700.00 each) in addition to the COMLEX.
2. Their USMLE scores will have to be in the 230 range as opposed to their MD competitors being in the 220 range (these are averages of course). The COMLEX scores likely will not matter a lick no matter how good they are.
3. Many MD General Surg. programs are very wary of DO applicants if they haven't actually seen them in action on a rotation. That leaves a maximum of 2-3 programs that might see the DO applicant - but only if the DO candidate as the foresight and money to schedule rotations at programs he/she could see himself at.
4. Let's face it...all things being equal, why would an MD program take a DO over an MD?? Frankly, most medical students are "equal" in the sense that very few distance themselves from everyone else in terms of letters, research, etc. VERY FEW.

Hope this helps, OP.

 

[ajk63]

I'm sure both schools offer an excellent education. As stated ad nauseum on these boards, if you want a maximum number of doors opened for you at a lesser figurative cost, go to the MD school. If you're convinced you want to do Family Med., OMT or peds, then none of this matters. If you think you might want to do something more competitive, go MD...period. Why is this concept lost on so many pre-meds???

Example: Take general surgery for example...a modestly competitive specialty whose MD programs are still more closed to DO's than most comparable fields. Let's say the OP is convinced that an MD Gen. Surg. program is the way to go, but they attended a DO school. That means:

1. They'll need to take both steps of the USMLE ($700.00 each) in addition to the COMLEX.
2. Their USMLE scores will have to be in the 230 range as opposed to their MD competitors being in the 220 range (these are averages of course). The COMLEX scores likely will not matter a lick no matter how good they are.
3. Many MD General Surg. programs are very wary of DO applicants if they haven't actually seen them in action on a rotation. That leaves a maximum of 2-3 programs that might see the DO applicant - but only if the DO candidate as the foresight and money to schedule rotations at programs he/she could see himself at.
4. Let's face it...all things being equal, why would an MD program take a DO over an MD?? Frankly, most medical students are "equal" in the sense that very few distance themselves from everyone else in terms of letters, research, etc. VERY FEW.

Hope this helps, OP.

Thank you for your post. This concept is not lost on me. I understand this issue well, and if we are strictly speaking of securing ACGME competitive residencies, fine. However, my comment was directed more toward spazzz's subjective assessment of 'better.' From what I've been led to believe, all things equal a US MD will get the spot over a US DO for a ACGME competitve residency. Though, all things are rarely equal and a student who does poorly at a US MD school will not get the derm/rads/surgery spot. I believe it's important to be comfortable at your chosen medical school and the environment should be one where you feel able to excell. Granted, this is a bit off topic as the OP was asking about residency disadvantages for DOs. Thus, I will take my leave. Bye!

 

[JaggerPlate]

you're spreading the same STD, go to the better school, not the one that fits you garbage. Jefferson is a better school.

Ehh ... not really. I didn't sit here and state anything that I've learned on this site, or claimed any knowledge to be my opinion. 'Go to the school that fits you best ??' I don't think that is something expressed through misguided pre med knowledge. So I guess if I am spreading it, you are too through your thoughts. Thanks for the reply

 

[Saregamapadanis]

If I get the PD at my hospital to write a letter stating he views the two degrees on equal footing, will you post that email daily as well?

Can you please ask him? This issue has been raised many times, I will try to also contact any Adcom members I know and see what they say.

 

[J1515]

you're spreading the same STD, go to the better school, not the one that fits you garbage. Jefferson is a better school.

What's your definition of better? A school that has a systems based curriculum? A PBL school? A school that teaches to the boards vs. a school that teaches to becoming a great physician? A school with X full time faculty?