ACOM vs. WVSOM

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KnicksDO

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Hello everyone! Im very thankful for these forums as they have guided me throughout this year while applying/interviewing. On that note, this is my first post as I am officially in need of personal advice, as opposed to general information. I am fortunate enough to have been accepted to both ACOM and WVSOM with no other interviews on the horizon. With that said, I must put down a deposit to one of these schools within the next 3 weeks. Admittedly I should have been a bit more proactive with this post as I've been having this dilemma for about a month.

Below, I will be posting what I believe are pro's/con's or just general information regarding each school. If I happen to make a mistake, I urge any user to please correct me. I am OOS, from NY with no allegiance to practicing medicine in any particular part of the country (although I would like to leave NY, but perhaps remain in the northeast sometime in the future). As of today I would like to pursue Internal Medicine and eventually sub-specialize. I know a lot could change between now and 4 years from now, so I am not really considering that when determining which school to pick (since both have established IM residency)

ACOM: 1) Warm weather
2) Surrounding area more developed (shopping, restaurants, etc)
3) Mandatory Attendance (~80% for lecture)
4) New school (I have a family member who will be apart of the first graduating class in '17, he scored well on his boards and has had no issue pursuing anesthesiology residency at hospitals with an allopathic affiliation)
5) Every student appeared to be very happy, almost too happy. Seemed like they were trying to sell me something which rubbed me the wrong way, but I understand)
6) Tuition: ~46,000 (up from ~$40,000 for the first class) At the rate ACOM is rising, I imagine they will be roughly the same price within a year or 2 and for that reason Ill consider it negligible.
7) Board Scores: I wont consider the numbers at either school, as I believe they are largely dependent on the student and I understand some schools may alter the statistics to yield a better %. However, ACOM is partnered with "wolfpacc" and therefore has a mandatory ~4 week board review class.
8) Housing: Several new housing options, one of which is pretty much located in the same parking lot that the school is in. I believe rent is roughly the same depending on how you choose to live.

WVSOM🙂 1) Colder and snow (which I am used to from NY, but wouldn't mind not having to deal with it when I should be studying)
2) From my brief stay, Lewisberg appears to consist of a Walmart and an Arby's. I am not exactly one to climb mountains.
3) Lecture is non-mandatory
4) Established school (one of my biggest difficulties in this decision is trying to figure out how to determine the strength of rotation sites. I have been judging them off of bed size (if there is a better way of determining this, please let me know. Each school appears to have similar rotation sites in terms of amount of beds. So really my question is, is WVSOM as an "established" school really a reason to knock ACOM as "new")
5) Students appeared to be more "serious" with their studies. I only met ~10 students at each school so the sample size is too small to really make the generalization that I made.
6) Tuition: ~$53,000 1st year, and decreases to ~$50,000 for years 2-4.
7) From what I've read, WVSOM gives the most time for independent dedicated board prep (~7 weeks at the end of year 2)
8) Housing: No affiliated housing, student is on their own to find roommate, house, landlord etc

At this point I am slowly realizing how long this thread is becoming, and that the more I type, the less likely it is to be read. For that reason, I will stop. If I have made any errors, or if you believe I am looking at something the wrong way, please do not hesitate to say something. I am very grateful to have been accepted to 2 schools and would appreciate any insight or guidance that either a current student or accepted student may have.
 
If you're aiming for IM then either school will get you there. The real question is which one will make you happiest and provide the best quality of life. Personally if I were in your situation, I would choose WVSOM. It's closer to your home in NY, it's more established and reputable, and it doesn't require mandatory attendance. Oh and it's one of the only 6 public DO schools in the country.
 
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I would personally choose WVSOM. I have an acceptance to both and if I hadn't have gotten into my first choice I would be going to WVSOM. I think it really is a diamond in the rough. I also understand what you mean by ACOM "trying to sell you something." I felt the same way at my interview and it also rubbed me the way, WVSOM just felt so much more genuine to me. In the end it is all about your own preference though.
 
Thank you guys for your input, I appreciate it. Ill do my best to not talk myself in a circle on this one so here I go. Essentially what I am trying to do is develop a firm understanding of the terms "reputable" and "established." Basing this entirely on my family member, the idea of a school being reputable has seemingly had no impact. I understand "ACOM vs. WVSOM" isn't exactly comparing a top tier school to a no-name school. Essentially, they are probably viewed simply as an osteopathic school with no true distinction. This, at least in my eyes voids the "reputable" argument. As for "established," they both appear to have residencys in the same fields and quantity of rotation sites with similar beds. WVSOM has a urology residency, which I guess you could say helps promote it as "established." But, I have very little interest at this moment in surgery, with urology not being towards the top if I had to choose today. With the merger, who knows how protected that urology residency will even be for WVSOM students. I also have no idea how the 50th percentile at each school tends to score or match and wont know since ACOM has no data. I understand my family member may be an outlier and may not be representative of his class, or the other 3 classes below him. Am I simplifying and confusing this too much at the same time? Probably. Its just that every point of distinction I try to make just comes back with an answer that at least to my eye, shows no distinction.
 
Thank you guys for your input, I appreciate it. Ill do my best to not talk myself in a circle on this one so here I go. Essentially what I am trying to do is develop a firm understanding of the terms "reputable" and "established." Basing this entirely on my family member, the idea of a school being reputable has seemingly had no impact. I understand "ACOM vs. WVSOM" isn't exactly comparing a top tier school to a no-name school. Essentially, they are probably viewed simply as an osteopathic school with no true distinction. This, at least in my eyes voids the "reputable" argument. As for "established," they both appear to have residencys in the same fields and quantity of rotation sites with similar beds. WVSOM has a urology residency, which I guess you could say helps promote it as "established." But, I have very little interest at this moment in surgery, with urology not being towards the top if I had to choose today. With the merger, who knows how protected that urology residency will even be for WVSOM students. I also have no idea how the 50th percentile at each school tends to score or match and wont know since ACOM has no data. I understand my family member may be an outlier and may not be representative of his class, or the other 3 classes below him. Am I simplifying and confusing this too much at the same time? Probably. Its just that every point of distinction I try to make just comes back with an answer that at least to my eye, shows no distinction.

I think you are overthinking it a little. I maintain that you should go where you feel most comfortable. It seems you are trying to get validation for ACOM, if that's where you want to go then go! Remember though that ACOM had mandatory attendance.
 
Third year at WVSOM here, happy to answer any questions you have if you PM me.
 
I wont deny that I can be pessimistic at times. But to comment from above, I'm actually leaning towards WVSOM, not ACOM. I am lucky to have a 4 family members (3 currently in Med School, 2 DO/1MD) to give me some guidance. However, they have kinda just been shooting at the hip since they don't know much about either school or showing favoritism toward the school they attended. In the end, I know this is entirely my decision. A large purpose of this thread was to validate to myself that I was looking at things with a proper perspective and outlook or perhaps to add things that I should consider in this decision. Perhaps the biggest strength that these forums have for us is the ability to share ideas and different viewpoints that each of us have on similar topics. I would imagine making this decision in hindsight would work out well, unfortunately that isn't an option. 200+ K in debt (I know what I signed up for, that wasn't intended to sound overly pessimistic or induce sympathetic thoughts) puts some pressure on making the "right" decision, even when there may be no clear answer. I guess its the fact that one of these 2 doors will officially close on me in 3 weeks and its making me over-analyze things.
 
Hello everyone! Im very thankful for these forums as they have guided me throughout this year while applying/interviewing. On that note, this is my first post as I am officially in need of personal advice, as opposed to general information. I am fortunate enough to have been accepted to both ACOM and WVSOM with no other interviews on the horizon. With that said, I must put down a deposit to one of these schools within the next 3 weeks. Admittedly I should have been a bit more proactive with this post as I've been having this dilemma for about a month.

Below, I will be posting what I believe are pro's/con's or just general information regarding each school. If I happen to make a mistake, I urge any user to please correct me. I am OOS, from NY with no allegiance to practicing medicine in any particular part of the country (although I would like to leave NY, but perhaps remain in the northeast sometime in the future). As of today I would like to pursue Internal Medicine and eventually sub-specialize. I know a lot could change between now and 4 years from now, so I am not really considering that when determining which school to pick (since both have established IM residency)

ACOM: 1) Warm weather
2) Surrounding area more developed (shopping, restaurants, etc)
3) Mandatory Attendance (~80% for lecture)
4) New school (I have a family member who will be apart of the first graduating class in '17, he scored well on his boards and has had no issue pursuing anesthesiology residency at hospitals with an allopathic affiliation)
5) Every student appeared to be very happy, almost too happy. Seemed like they were trying to sell me something which rubbed me the wrong way, but I understand)
6) Tuition: ~46,000 (up from ~$40,000 for the first class) At the rate ACOM is rising, I imagine they will be roughly the same price within a year or 2 and for that reason Ill consider it negligible.
7) Board Scores: I wont consider the numbers at either school, as I believe they are largely dependent on the student and I understand some schools may alter the statistics to yield a better %. However, ACOM is partnered with "wolfpacc" and therefore has a mandatory ~4 week board review class.
8) Housing: Several new housing options, one of which is pretty much located in the same parking lot that the school is in. I believe rent is roughly the same depending on how you choose to live.

WVSOM🙂 1) Colder and snow (which I am used to from NY, but wouldn't mind not having to deal with it when I should be studying)
2) From my brief stay, Lewisberg appears to consist of a Walmart and an Arby's. I am not exactly one to climb mountains.
3) Lecture is non-mandatory
4) Established school (one of my biggest difficulties in this decision is trying to figure out how to determine the strength of rotation sites. I have been judging them off of bed size (if there is a better way of determining this, please let me know. Each school appears to have similar rotation sites in terms of amount of beds. So really my question is, is WVSOM as an "established" school really a reason to knock ACOM as "new")
5) Students appeared to be more "serious" with their studies. I only met ~10 students at each school so the sample size is too small to really make the generalization that I made.
6) Tuition: ~$53,000 1st year, and decreases to ~$50,000 for years 2-4.
7) From what I've read, WVSOM gives the most time for independent dedicated board prep (~7 weeks at the end of year 2)
8) Housing: No affiliated housing, student is on their own to find roommate, house, landlord etc

At this point I am slowly realizing how long this thread is becoming, and that the more I type, the less likely it is to be read. For that reason, I will stop. If I have made any errors, or if you believe I am looking at something the wrong way, please do not hesitate to say something. I am very grateful to have been accepted to 2 schools and would appreciate any insight or guidance that either a current student or accepted student may have.

WVSOM.

No mandatory attendence. This is the big one. You need the study time, and forcing students to attend lectures a major time drain. Everyone I know who thought they would do better at a mandatory attendance school regretted it.

Oh yeah, and more time to prep for boards.

The $10k additional tuition is worth it for these reasons IMO. I think you'll be more successful at WVSOM.
 
WVSOM.

No mandatory attendence. This is the big one. You need the study time, and forcing students to attend lectures a major time drain. Everyone I know who thought they would do better at a mandatory attendance school regretted it.

Oh yeah, and more time to prep for boards.

The $10k additional tuition is worth it for these reasons IMO. I think you'll be more successful at WVSOM.

I think what worries me the most is the lack of elective rotations 4th year. I have no idea what I want to specialize in yet, so having the ability to rotate in different specialties is intriguing.

If you don't want to go into primary care, you may be better off at ACOM
 
I think what worries me the most is the lack of elective rotations 4th year. I have no idea what I want to specialize in yet, so having the ability to rotate in different specialties is intriguing.

If you don't want to go into primary care, you may be better off at ACOM

What are you talking about? WVSOM has plenty of 4th year electives...

Edit: 14 weeks worth of electives.
 
Wvsom and it's not even close.

No mandatory attendance.

More board prep time.

More residencies to rotate through.

An actual alumni base.

I got the weird feeling from acom too. I felt like I was being lured into a gingerbread house. Your understanding of established vs reputable seems pretty spot on.


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Wvsom and it's not even close.

No mandatory attendance.

More board prep time.

More residencies to rotate through.

An actual alumni base.

I got the weird feeling from acom too. I felt like I was being lured into a gingerbread house. Your understanding of established vs reputable seems pretty spot on.


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I disagree.

I think it's more like "WVSOM, and its close but still decisive."
 
I am actually in the exact same position and am leaning towards ACOM. I honestly loved WVSOM, but I really do feel like with all the mandatory primary care rotations and the requirement to do rural med rotations really is kind of the tipping point for me. I'm also from California and have spent the last 3+ years in a state with cold weather so that also plays a little bit of a role lol. I think if you're from NY WVSOM would be closer to you and if that's a big factor then there's your school. I don't think you can go wrong either way!

Also, speaking as someone who transferred out of a school as an undergrad because the town was so small and isolated you should take WVSOM's location into account. Again I thought Lewisburg was charming but it's going to be a culture shock coming there from NY. Just my opinion!
 
What are you talking about? WVSOM has plenty of 4th year electives...

Edit: 14 weeks worth of electives.

My mistake then. I was reading up on both and saw someone post about the lack of elective opportunities.

Thanks for the clarification!

Probably me.

That is on the lower end. You could do 3 1/2 blocks of electives, which is enough for semi-competitive fields but not high end competitive fields (there are people who do 5-6 blocks of auditions). So if you are a risk taker and want something like opthalmology, then you will more than 3 months of electives. Otherwise you are fine for fields like EM. My only compliant with WVSOM, otherwise an excellent school.

My school has around 24 weeks of electives, this is higher than average.
 
My mistake then. I was reading up on both and saw someone post about the lack of elective opportunities.

Thanks for the clarification!

Probably me.

That is on the lower end. You could do 3 1/2 blocks of electives, which is enough for semi-competitive fields but not high end competitive fields (there are people who do 5-6 blocks of auditions). So if you are a risk taker and want something like opthalmology, then you will more than 3 months of electives. Otherwise you are fine for fields like EM. My only compliant with WVSOM, otherwise an excellent school.

My school has around 24 weeks of electives, this is higher than average.

Then I must apologize to the above poster! Apparently I was mistaken with comparing WVSOM's elective time with other schools, I was going by what current students told me and just be by what they fhey said during the interview. 24 weeks of electives is awesome, what school? (You can PM me if you want)
 
Then I must apologize to the above poster! Apparently I was mistaken with comparing WVSOM's elective time with other schools, I was going by what current students told me and just be by what they fhey said during the interview. 24 weeks of electives is awesome, what school? (You can PM me if you want)

No problem. In the end, I just want OP to have accurate information 🙂
 
Then I must apologize to the above poster! Apparently I was mistaken with comparing WVSOM's elective time with other schools, I was going by what current students told me and just be by what they fhey said during the interview. 24 weeks of electives is awesome, what school? (You can PM me if you want)

Keeping my school confidential, but the school is still on the younger end of the spectrum. However, schools like KCU (24 weeks/ 6 blocks) and Western (28 weeks / 7 blocks) give a large amount of elective time.

If I were to give a rule of thumb, most schools have around 16 weeks (4 blocks) of elective time. So anything high is a good amount of electives and anything lower is not a good amount. So keep this in mind when picking your schools and congratulations on your acceptances.

EDITS MADE
 
I'm comparing Lewisburg to Dothan when I say that. Dothan's metro area is around 150,000 whereas greenbrier county is around 35,000.
Lewisburg itself is a town of what 4000?

lol Dothan doesn't have a metro area. It is a city of 60k but there are more restaurants and shopping than 60k could sustain because the town services a 100 miles radius of the rural tristate region
 
Then I must apologize to the above poster! Apparently I was mistaken with comparing WVSOM's elective time with other schools, I was going by what current students told me and just be by what they fhey said during the interview. 24 weeks of electives is awesome, what school? (You can PM me if you want)
his first apology.

times is changing
 
lol Dothan doesn't have a metro area. It is a city of 60k but there are more restaurants and shopping than 60k could sustain because the town services a 100 miles radius of the rural tristate region

Do a quick Google search of Dothan AL metro population

Edit: I'm guessing you're an ACOM student so I will defer to you!
 
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Do a quick Google search of Dothan AL metro population

Edit: I'm guessing you're an ACOM student so I will defer to you!

Ya. It's honestly not bad. I wouldn't consider it a rural town at all. It's the size of my college town so it wasn't that big of a change. It's more the southern lifestyle that someone would need to adjust to
 
Ya. It's honestly not bad. I wouldn't consider it a rural town at all. It's the size of my college town so it wasn't that big of a change. It's more the southern lifestyle that someone would need to adjust to

Are you a student at ACOM? If so can I pm you with a question or two? Just got accepted and would like your opinion on some things if you are willing!
 
You have officially been ignored, you're not worth my time
Just being honest you do act fairly condescending. I'm not sure you mean to be, but in almost every post you make you act like you're already a physician and have all the answers. Not trying to start a pissing match because I don't care, but might be worth it to at least make an attempt to act like what you are: someone who hasn't even started medical school same as the rest of us.
 
To get back on topic, WVSOM also has a "deans selective" for 4 weeks. Seems to be basically an elective, just with the deans approval. I guess its just a way to prevent someone from rotating in a specialty that the students board scores would not allow them to realistically match. So the 14 weeks is totally free, but could also be interpreted as 18 weeks.
 
To get back on topic, WVSOM also has a "deans selective" for 4 weeks. Seems to be basically an elective, just with the deans approval. I guess its just a way to prevent someone from rotating in a specialty that the students board scores would not allow them to realistically match. So the 14 weeks is totally free, but could also be interpreted as 18 weeks.

This is true, but I believe you have only a certain amount of specialities you can choose from. So if there is a specialty you want that is not on this list, you go back to the original 14 weeks. This hurt people who want to specialize more, because AOA residencies want audition rotations with their programs. Certain AOA won't even interview applicants who haven't rotated with them. So if you want something extremely competitive, the low amount elective weeks will hurt you. If you read the handbook more, you will find that they make exceptions for those who want to rotate in FM or IM. You can go beyond the 4 rotation maximum only for these primary care fields. Which is why I felt the school was trying to push primary care hard by doing this.
 
This is true, but I believe you have only a certain amount of specialities you can choose from. So if there is a specialty you want that is not on this list, you go back to the original 14 weeks. This hurt people who want to specialize more, because AOA residencies want audition rotations with their programs. Certain AOA won't even interview applicants who haven't rotated with them. So if you want something extremely competitive, the low amount elective weeks will hurt you. If you read the handbook more, you will find that they make exceptions for those who want to rotate in FM or IM. You can go beyond the 4 rotation maximum only for these primary care fields. Which is why I felt the school was trying to push primary care hard by doing this.

This is the primary reason why I'm leaning towards ACOM. I don't know yet if I'd like to specialize, but having the rotation time to explore that is something I want for sure.
 
This is the primary reason why I'm leaning towards ACOM. I don't know yet if I'd like to specialize, but having the rotation time to explore that is something I want for sure.

Really look into their elective rotation time, I believe it is 16 weeks for ACOM (not sure). However, for the most part you will be okay for mildly competitive fields at either school. Schools will usually post this schedule on their website or handbooks. So make sure to read them before choosing.
 
Really look into their elective rotation time, I believe it is 16 weeks for ACOM (not sure). However, for the most part you will be okay for mildly competitive fields at either school. Schools will usually post this schedule on their website or handbooks. So make sure to read them before choosing.

Pretty sure it's 20ish weeks at ACOM!
 
This is the primary reason why I'm leaning towards ACOM. I don't know yet if I'd like to specialize, but having the rotation time to explore that is something I want for sure.

And that's the reason that I didn't go to wvsom. But you should also consider if a school with mandatory attendance, less board prep time, and less wards based clinical education will set you up as well to perform as well to specialize.


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And that's the reason that I didn't go to wvsom. But you should also consider if a school with mandatory attendance, less board prep time, and less wards based clinical education will set you up as well to perform as well to specialize.


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Can you fill me in on the differences between preceptors and wards based rotations?

Also I have interviews at KCU and my undergrad md program so ACOM is my current choice without having an answer from either of them!
 
Also have the merger looming over the upcoming classes. I dont want this to turn into an MD/DO debate. But its something to consider when looking 4 years down the line and competitive specialties
 
Can you fill me in on the differences between preceptors and wards based rotations?

It's all over this website, so you can probably find a better description than I'll give. Generally though, a wards based rotation shows you what it's like to function as an intern and is a much more structured environment. These are important so that you don't look like an idiot during your audition rotations. Preceptor based rotations vary wildly in quality and structure. This is where you basically follow around a doctor. You might get to see patients and do some procedures. But it's not quite the education that residencies are looking for. From what I understand, acom has a very well organized preceptor network and they're very well paid so I imagine this is as good as preceptor based education can get. There are a few residencies in the AMEC, but not nearly enough to accommodate all of their students.

So you have to ask yourself if more elective time is really so great when you may very well be using your first elective just to figure out how a wards based rotation even works. After all, that elective won't really be all that great of a rotation if you look like a bungling idiot.




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Can you fill me in on the differences between preceptors and wards based rotations?

Also I have interviews at KCU and my undergrad md program so ACOM is my current choice without having an answer from either of them!

It's really difficult to put into just a preceptor based and ward based context. Better to put it into a more preceptor based and residency team context.

Preceptor based rotations - one attending to one medical student/several medical students. So you are taught by this one attending through the rotation with no interference from residents. This can range from being in a doctors office to a large clinic to a hospital setting (i.e. wards).

Residency based rotations - one attending, several residents, and several medical students. So you are learning in a team along with residents. Usually this is done in hospitals (wards).

The problem with preceptor based rotations is that you get lulled into this false sense of security because they are doing procedures without interference of residents. There are medical students out there who definitely think this. The issue with this setup is that you don't know how a resident functions. Its the whole reason why you are in the wards, its to learn how to be a resident in order to match into a residency. With a residency based team, you see how they do their notes and how they handle patients (the bread and butter of medicine). Its good for you because they are like the intermediate step to functioning like a doctor. So you get to see the A, B, C steps in seeing patients versus when you are with an attending only and seeing them fly to X, Y, and Z. You don't learning anything if you cannot see the step by step thinking process.
 
It's really difficult to put into just a preceptor based and ward based context. Better to put it into a more preceptor based and residency team context.

Preceptor based rotations - one attending to one medical student/several medical students. So you are taught by this one attending through the rotation with no interference from residents. This can range from being in a doctors office to a large clinic to a hospital setting (i.e. wards).

Residency based rotations - one attending, several residents, and several medical students. So you are learning in a team along with residents. Usually this is done in hospitals (wards).

The problem with preceptor based rotations is that you get lulled into this false sense of security because they are doing procedures without interference of residents. There are medical students out there who definitely think this. The issue with this setup is that you don't know how a resident functions. Its the whole reason why you are in the wards, its to learn how to be a resident in order to match into a residency. With a residency based team, you see how they do their notes and how they handle patients (the bread and butter of medicine). Its good for you because they are like the intermediate step to functioning like a doctor. So you get to see the A, B, C steps in seeing patients versus when you are with an attending only and seeing them fly to X, Y, and Z. You don't learning anything if you cannot see the step by step thinking process.

So are you severely handicapped if you go to a school with a preceptor based rotation system? Most of the DO schools I've seen have that setup KCU is my #1 but I better go look at their rotations in comparison to ACOM in that sense.
 
So are you severely handicapped if you go to a school with a preceptor based rotation system? Most of the DO schools I've seen have that setup KCU is my #1 but I better go look at their rotations in comparison to ACOM in that sense.

Check out the clinical rotations by school thread in osteo. It's a really good source and really helped me finalize my school decision.


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