Active shooter protocols in OR?

[deleted480308]

The footnote in that infographic states "Gun deaths were counted as mass shootings when four or more victims were shot." This is an INCREDIBLY dishonest way to present the data and significantly overstates the frequency of active shooter scenarios. "Four or more victims were shot" (not even killed?) includes every single inner-city, gang related "business" activity in Chicago, DC, St. Louis, Baltimore, etc. just to massively pump up the figures. Safe to say most of us are nowhere near inner-city turf wars and gang rivalries.

Pro-tip: Since there's no universally accepted definition of "mass shooting," always check how it's defined.
Pro-tip: Same with seeing how "gun violence" is defined as often times suicides are lumped in with homicides/murders but then that data is pivoted in the next sentence with gun ownership figures to castigate law-abiding gun owners with criminals. It's a sneaky tactic and very easy to miss unless you know what to look for.

a buddy actually pointed out to me once that some of those stats include officers shooting criminals as “gun violence”

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[Stroganoff]

Guys ... it is a problem ... you have protocols for what to do if you have an ‘active shooter’ in your hospital / OR ...

And 100% of schools have "active fire" protocols but 0 kids have died in school fires. So we should just scrap the drills? Or perhaps we're thinking of this backwards and the redundant, layered approach we take to fire prevention and mitigation is the very reason that the casualty rate is so low?

Active shooters in schools: The enemy is denial

Replace schools with any other potential soft target. In other words, we have all sorts of layered building codes, fire suppression, fire drills, and protocols to mitigate the threat of fire, but we have nowhere near the same sort of layered, redundant approach to violence prevention, deterrence, and mitigation.

 

[deleted59964]

And 100% of schools have "active fire" protocols but 0 kids have died in school fires. So we should just scrap the drills? Or perhaps we're thinking of this backwards and the redundant, layered approach we take to fire prevention and mitigation is the very reason that the casualty rate is so low?

Active shooters in schools: The enemy is denial

Replace schools with any other potential soft target. In other words, we have all sorts of layered building codes, fire suppression, fire drills, and protocols to mitigate the threat of fire, but we have nowhere near the same sort of layered, redundant approach to violence prevention, deterrence, and mitigation.

The problem is not that you have active shooter protocols - it’s that you need them.

 

[Stroganoff]

The problem is not that you have active shooter protocols - it’s that you need them.

I think that went over your head then. Not sure if you read the article. Deaths from fire are at an all time low, and we still have a multi-layered, redundant approach to fire prevention and mitigation. Similarly, deaths from active shooters are lower than they have been in decades past, and overall risk is still very low, yet many places do NOT have a multi-layered, redundant, defense-in-depth approach to prevention, deterrence, and mitigation.

 

[pgg]

a buddy actually pointed out to me once that some of those stats include officers shooting criminals as “gun violence”

They lie for effect, to exaggerate and fabricate a problem, so they can push little pieces of their incremental solution of banning private ownership of all firearms. For example the recent frantic screeching from Everytown about there being 18 "school shootings" so far this year. The truth is that most of those incidents were things like negligent discharges from a cop, no-injury gunshots in the parking lot at 2 AM, gangbanger drug arguments after hours on school grounds, accidents with no injuries, a suicide attempt, a shot hitting a school building at some unknown time not during school hours, etc.

They're not stupid people. These lies aren't accidental. They do it deliberately to mislead and inspire fear.

A month ago, American high school students' chief claim to fame was eating Tide pods. Now we're supposed to listen to them about the Constitution and civil rights legislation.

This is very much a media driven competition for eyeballs and attention. Reasonable people aren't the least bit worried about being the victim of a random shooting, whether on or off school grounds, during school hours or not.

 

[deleted59964]

I think that went over your head then. Not sure if you read the article. Deaths from fire are at an all time low, and we still have a multi-layered, redundant approach to fire prevention and mitigation. Similarly, deaths from active shooters are lower than they have been in decades past, and overall risk is still very low, yet many places do NOT have a multi-layered, redundant, defense-in-depth approach to prevention, deterrence, and mitigation.

No it didn’t.
First - mass shootings are an increasing problem.

Analysis | More than 50 years of U.S. mass shootings: The victims, sites, killers and weapons

150 shootings
In the 50 years before the Texas tower shooting, there were just 25 public mass shootings in which four or more people were killed, according to author and criminologist Grant Duwe. Since then, the number has risen dramatically, and many of the deadliest shootings have occurred within the past few years.

Second - the problem is that you have so many active shooters.
‘Active shooter’ isn’t even a term here. Yet it’s so common in the US that you have a term for it, and have protocols for it.

An ounce of prevention >> pound of cure.

Anyway I see you’ve posted 36,000 times so I think I’ll save my breath

 

[Stroganoff]

An ounce of prevention >> pound of cure.

I'm glad we agree. I'm just genuinely confused why you're arguing with me when we both agree.

 

[GravelRider]

A month ago, American high school students' chief claim to fame was eating Tide pods. Now we're supposed to listen to them about the Constitution and civil rights legislation.

Come on. Really? That tide pod thing was just as overblown as you claim mass shootings to be. And now all high school students’ opinions mean nothing because of a handful of idiots? I would think a gun owner wouldn’t want to condemn many because of the dumb actions of a few.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Second - the problem is that you have so many active shooters.
‘Active shooter’ isn’t even a term here. Yet it’s so common in the US that you have a term for it, and have protocols for it.

In your country, you don't have the term active shooter? It is simply a descriptive term that someone is shooting...at the current time. It is more about tense. He is a shooter vs he was a shooter. Is it the word active or the word shooter that you are having trouble with? In your country, if someone told everyone there was an "active shooter" in the school, people would go on about their business because they wouldn't have any idea what the term was referring to?

 

[deleted59964]

In your country, you don't have the term active shooter? It is simply a descriptive term that someone is shooting...at the current time. It is more about tense. He is a shooter vs he was a shooter. Is it the word active or the word shooter that you are having trouble with? In your country, if someone told everyone there was an "active shooter" in the school, people would go on about their business because they wouldn't have any idea what the term was referring to?

No the term is pretty self explanatory ... even for us simple folk down under.
I’d never heard the term till this thread ... this reflects the rarity of the event here I suppose, I guess if you don’t have a society flooded with guns you don’t have much use for the term.

 

[Gern Blansten]

No the term is pretty self explanatory ... even for us simple folk down under.
I’d never heard the term till this thread ... this reflects the rarity of the event here I suppose, I guess if you don’t have a society flooded with guns you don’t have much use for the term.

You have the term shooter, though. Right? And you know what active means. Somebody just combined two words. So, now Australia does have that term. You're welcome.

Seriously though, I'm not trying to pick a fight. It's just funny to me that you said Australia doesn't have that term, when, in reality, yeah you do.

 

[pgg]

Come on. Really? That tide pod thing was just as overblown as you claim mass shootings to be. And now all high school students’ opinions mean nothing because of a handful of idiots? I would think a gun owner wouldn’t want to condemn many because of the dumb actions of a few.

Maybe I should've put a smiley there; I was being a smart ass.

But no, I don't take teenagers' opinions seriously, on this or much of anything else. They lack experience and perspective in general; in this particular case they are being assisted and led by adults with an agenda.

They have my sympathy for what they've gone through, but that's it.

 

[GravelRider]

Maybe I should've put a smiley there; I was being a smart ass.

But no, I don't take teenagers' opinions seriously, on this or much of anything else. They lack experience and perspective in general; in this particular case they are being assisted and led by adults with an agenda.

They have my sympathy for what they've gone through, but that's it.

That’s a cop out, plain and simple. It sounds like a talking point from a news channel loudmouth’s notecard. Give me a break. I would feel better if you said that it was “fake news” or the kids were hired actors rather than saying their opinion doesn’t matter. These kids have had more experience with guns than many of the political shills in Washington or talking heads on cable news. They have every right to their opinion and they now have had plenty of experience to base that opinion on.

Who’s opinion does matter then? The opinion that has been shaped by the corporate marketing of a billion dollar industry?

 

[nlax30]

how do you plan on carrying into an OR? would be fairly conspicuous in your scrubs...

Appendix carry.... “that’s not a gun”....

 

[Cryc_to_the_point]

sb247,
1. I'd love to work with like minded people
2. Yeah I'd take being bumped from a program over being killed by some nut
3. Guys you can conceal A LOT if you know how to.

 

[deleted480308]

That’s a cop out, plain and simple. It sounds like a talking point from a news channel loudmouth’s notecard. Give me a break. I would feel better if you said that it was “fake news” or the kids were hired actors rather than saying their opinion doesn’t matter. These kids have had more experience with guns than many of the political shills in Washington or talking heads on cable news. They have every right to their opinion and they now have had plenty of experience to base that opinion on.

Who’s opinion does matter then? The opinion that has been shaped by the corporate marketing of a billion dollar industry?

I don’t think being around a school shooting makes anyone knowledgeable about security and gun policy/function/rights any more than falling overboard would make me a marine biologist

They have a right to an opinion, but let’s not pretend it’s more informed than it is

 

[Cryc_to_the_point]

People hand you their lives daily on the consent form to me its only right that you would be willing to lay your life down protecting your patients. A honorable death is a honor of its own.

Saying that with preparations made to be effective at fighting= honorable
Saying that with just hope and a prayer= stupid.

Train to win. No different than any other preparation.

 

[Stroganoff]

These kids have had more experience with guns than many of the political shills in Washington or talking heads on cable news.

I'm extremely skeptical that the kids who the MSM gives the most attention to actually have firearms knowledge and experience but are merely groomed and used by the likes of Everytown and MDA. (For example, I did a point-by-point rebuttal of Emma Gonzalez's speech in SPF -- the speech is completely nasty and dishonest and Exhibit A of her firearms ignorance/agenda of deception.) The very students who do have firearms knowledge and experience aren't given the time of day or any coverage. For example, the JROTC student/hero from Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS was denied admission to the CNN dog-and-pony lynch mob and is barely given attention by MSM.

 

[Stroganoff]

I've only been in a small handful of ORs, surgical suites, and surgery departments, but in the vast majority it seems like anyone can roam to-and-fro very freely.

I don't think it's reasonable (or legal) to mandate that health care professionals lay down their own lives to protect their patients: as much as I commiserate, I think it's ridiculous. To the couple in this thread who believe they should, more power to ya. Seriously. But most just want to go home to their families and live another day.

In the scenario of a threat of violence in the OR or with any situation with incapacitated/unconscious patients, seems like ORs could be better hardened with 100% locked doors policy with RFID badge readers. With regard to those wearing face masks and/or scrubbed in, maybe integrating a retina/iris scan into the locking system would solve that. Or incorporate the RFID component into one's reusable surgical cap so you don't have to break aseptic technique just to badge into the OR. With the RFID door locks I've worked with, you can adjust their sensitivity/strength in the settings so you can be 1-2 feet away from the sensor for it to read your badge.

Edit: If a 24/7 locked door policy is too extreme, doors should at least be lock-able in the event of emergency.

 

[GravelRider]

I'm extremely skeptical that the kids who the MSM gives the most attention to actually have firearms knowledge and experience but are merely groomed and used by the likes of Everytown and MDA. (For example, I did a point-by-point rebuttal of Emma Gonzalez's speech in SPF -- the speech is completely nasty and dishonest and Exhibit A of her firearms ignorance/agenda of deception.) The very students who do have firearms knowledge and experience aren't given the time of day or any coverage. For example, the JROTC student/hero from Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS was denied admission to the CNN dog-and-pony lynch mob and is barely given attention by MSM.

I’m extremely skeptical of anyone who uses the abbreviation MSM.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I don’t think being around a school shooting makes anyone knowledgeable about security and gun policy/function/rights any more than falling overboard would make me a marine biologist

They have a right to an opinion, but let’s not pretend it’s more informed than it is

 

[Stroganoff]

I’m extremely skeptical of anyone who uses the abbreviation MSM.

Do you have a genuine, adult response to the content of my reply or do you just want to childishly troll? I stand by my point that a lot of the kids parading around in mainstream news outlets don't truly have firearms knowledge or experience but are merely being used by the likes of Everytown as emotional puppets to further the agenda. Obama is pretty famous for using kids to tug at people's emotional heart strings to further an anti-gun agenda. As others in this thread already said: being involved in a mass tragedy doesn't in itself mean that someone has firearms knowledge or experience or is in any way qualified to discuss policy -- but these kids are prime pickins to be used as pawns just to emotionally manipulate adults to "think of the children."

 

[GravelRider]

I don’t think being around a school shooting makes anyone knowledgeable about security and gun policy/function/rights any more than falling overboard would make me a marine biologist

They have a right to an opinion, but let’s not pretend it’s more informed than it is

That’s not even remotely equivalent.

What do the majority of gun owners know about security/policy/function/rights? My guess is that the majority of gun sales are driven by marketing. Let’s be honest, the tough guy individualist/survivalist is on trend right now. That gun will look sweet in that next Instagram post.

 

[GravelRider]

Do you have a genuine, adult response to the content of my reply or do you just want to childishly troll? I stand by my point that a lot of the kids parading around in mainstream news outlets don't truly have firearms knowledge or experience but are merely being used by the likes of Everytown as emotional puppets to further the agenda. Obama is pretty famous for using kids to tug at people's emotional heart strings to further an anti-gun agenda. As others in this thread already said: being involved in a mass tragedy doesn't in itself mean that someone has firearms knowledge or experience or is in any way qualified to discuss policy -- but these kids are prime pickins to be used as pawns just to emotionally manipulate adults to "think of the children."

I didn’t read it. I stopped at MSM.

Edit: I didn’t read this one either because I saw Obama’s name tucked in there. No thanks.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I’m extremely skeptical of anyone who uses the abbreviation MSM.

A healthy dose of skepticism is good most of the time.

“Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.”
― George Carlin

 

[Gern Blansten]

I didn’t read it. I stopped at MSM.

If you look up the alternative meaning of MSM, your post takes an entirely different turn.

 

[GravelRider]

A healthy dose of skepticism is good most of the time.

“Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.”
― George Carlin

As a devout atheist, that is one of my favorite quotes.

 

[Stroganoff]

If you look up the alternative meaning of MSM, your post takes an entirely different turn.

Don't ask, don't tell.

 

[deleted480308]

That’s not even remotely equivalent.

What do the majority of gun owners know about security/policy/function/rights? My guess is that the majority of gun sales are driven by marketing. Let’s be honest, the tough guy individualist/survivalist is on trend right now. That gun will look sweet in that next Instagram post.

I’m not comparing the avg kid’s knowledge on the topic to the avg gun owner here.....I’m comparing them to me. And comparatively they are woefully uninformed

I’m not giving up my rights or pretending they are knowledgeable just because a bad thing happened to them. Punish they guy who did it, arrest/convict/then execute him.

But leave me alone

 

[Stroganoff]

I didn’t read it. I stopped at MSM.

Edit: I didn’t read this one either because I saw Obama’s name tucked in there. No thanks.

It's impossible to have an adult conversation with someone who closes his eyes, closes ears, and closes mind. Thanks for outing yourself. Adding you to Ignore for trolling. Instead of genuinely reading the content of my posts and formulating a response, you instead choose to cherrypick trigger words and use that as the basis for any response. I don't get it. Either way, so long.

I stand by the points I made that children are being used as puppets and that experience in tragedy doesn't in itself make someone knowledgeable about firearms or firearms policy. I stand by my point that those teenagers who do have knowledge and experience are categorically and routinely silenced and are rarely given the same attention by mainstream news because it goes against their agenda.

 

[deleted59964]

sb247,
3. Guys you can conceal A LOT if you know how to.

Ah a man who knows how to keister!

 

[deleted59964]

You have the term shooter, though. Right? And you know what active means. Somebody just combined two words. So, now Australia does have that term. You're welcome.

Seriously though, I'm not trying to pick a fight. It's just funny to me that you said Australia doesn't have that term, when, in reality, yeah you do.

Normally we would use the term hunter, or marksman ... since that’s what guns are for

 

[deleted480308]

Normally we would use the term hunter, or marksman ... since that’s what guns are for

Not solely though. Sometimes people need to be shot. That’s why military, the police, and anyone interested in their self defense have guns.....

 

[pgg]

That’s a cop out, plain and simple.

Nope

To be explicitly clear, I think everyone who favors the sort of gun control these kids and their enablers are calling for (to wit, bans of semi-automatic rifles) is uninformed, ignorant, and/or foolish - whether they are in high school now or left it 50 years ago. Moreover, the fact that they are attacking a fundamental civil right that I and they and all of our descendants deserve to have is of great concern to me, and I will vigorously oppose their efforts.

It sounds like a talking point from a news channel loudmouth’s notecard. Give me a break. I would feel better if you said that it was “fake news” or the kids were hired actors rather than saying their opinion doesn’t matter.

You'd feel better if I took a page from the gun control lobby's playbook or fringe right winger talk radio and said something obviously false and intended to stir an emotional irrational reaction? Why would you want that?

Would you favor high schoolers driving healthcare policy debate because most of them have a grandma or cousin or friend who got sick once? They have experience. Opinions too.

Maybe they can frame the discussion on what to do about the Israeli - Palestinean conflicts. Surely there are more teens who've visited that place than have been within 100 miles of a school shooting. Why are we ignoring these future ambassadors?

Maybe the ones with part time jobs can weigh in on balancing the federal budget too.

No. Their opinions don't matter. At least, they wouldn't if not for the adults leveraging them.

These kids have had more experience with guns than many of the political shills in Washington or talking heads on cable news. They have every right to their opinion and they now have had plenty of experience to base that opinion on.

Of course they have a right to an opinion.

They don't have a right to vote.

Maybe, while we're raising the age required to buy a rifle to 21, we should raise the voting age to 21 also.

Who’s opinion does matter then? The opinion that has been shaped by the corporate marketing of a billion dollar industry?

What corporate marketing are you referring to here, and whose opinion? Is there a specific marketing campaign you have in mind or are you implying something about the NRA and gun owners?

 

[nimbus]

Never mind. After all our handwringing over guns, turns out the one of the causes of school shootings is......drumroll.......PORNO!!

At least according to “root cause analysis” by this genius.

Tennessee lawmaker says pornography is "root cause" of school shootings - CNNPolitics

 

[GravelRider]

Never mind. After all our handwringing over guns, turns out the one of the causes of school shootings is......drumroll.......PORNO!!

At least according to “root cause analysis” by this genius.

Tennessee lawmaker says pornography is "root cause" of school shootings - CNNPolitics

Well, she’s a nurse so she “goes back to root cause.”

Apparently, according to her, you can also get pornography at the grocery store. I didn’t realize that the aisle at my Whole Foods with all the soaps that smell like hippies also had porno. Maybe I’ll venture down that aisle next time I’m there. All this time I’ve been getting my porno on the internet when I could be getting my porno while I stock up on avocados.

 

[Psai]

Well, she’s a nurse so she “goes back to root cause.”

Apparently, according to her, you can also get pornography at the grocery store. I didn’t realize that the aisle at my Whole Foods with all the soaps that smell like hippies also had porno. Maybe I’ll venture down that aisle next time I’m there. All this time I’ve been getting my porno on the internet when I could be getting my porno while I stock up on avocados.

Wonder what the checkout girl is thinking as she sees your stack of avocados and porn

 

[deleted162650]

Wonder what the checkout girl is thinking as she sees your stack of avocados and porn

It’s worse when he buys zucchini.