mrfeet

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I think that the military scholarship issue really needs to be discussed at the upcoming APMSA meeting. I still feel that it is a travesty that nearly every medical profession can receive scholarships to go to school from the military (yes, even veterinarians) and yet podiatrists cannot qualify.

There are many students out there who I am sure would love to take the military scholarship option and alleviate the $150,000+ of debt that is incurred by going to pod school.

I hope that some of you that are attending will seriously address this issue of inequality.
 

krabmas

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mrfeet said:
I think that the military scholarship issue really needs to be discussed at the upcoming APMSA meeting. I still feel that it is a travesty that nearly every medical profession can receive scholarships to go to school from the military (yes, even veterinarians) and yet podiatrists cannot qualify.

There are many students out there who I am sure would love to take the military scholarship option and alleviate the $150,000+ of debt that is incurred by going to pod school.

I hope that some of you that are attending will seriously address this issue of inequality.

At the last meeting this issue was brought up and debated. I do not remember what the outcome was but I do remember the sentiment of the debate.

The people who knew anything about the military said something along the lines of....

As long as the pod spots in the military get filled without the military having to give benefits for them (loan repayment...) the military has no incentive to change the way that pods are treated.

So basically as long as there is not a shortage of pods in the military there will be not loan repayments.
 

Ski Bum

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krabmas said:
At the last meeting this issue was brought up and debated. I do not remember what the outcome was but I do remember the sentiment of the debate.

The people who knew anything about the military said something along the lines of....

As long as the pod spots in the military get filled without the military having to give benefits for them (loan repayment...) the military has no incentive to change the way that pods are treated.

So basically as long as there is not a shortage of pods in the military there will be not loan repayments.

This was a big issue in the APMSA house in 2002-2003. I can try to see what came of it then to see why it is dead in the water
 
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Dr_Feelgood

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According to Dr. Rogers, they drafted a resolution supporting changes to the military scholarship and the response was "thanks but no thanks" from the DOD (Department of Defense).
 

funfeet

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The Air Force does offer a scholarship for podiatry. Every year they pair for tuition and more, you must serve a year (plus an extra year). So if they help pay for 2 years, you serve 3. I was in the Army before. I know the Army does not offer podiatry scholarships. However, even as a medical doctor, you must go through a 6 (?) week training. With the Air Force, its only 4 weeks for health professionals. Army will take podiatrists, but as civilian doctors in hospitals. They will not pay for school...yet. For those who are set on the Army career, good luck with what you are doing. But if you are looking for a way to pay back loans and serve, go Air Force.
 
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mrfeet

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funfeet said:
The Air Force does offer a scholarship for podiatry. Every year they pair for tuition and more, you must serve a year (plus an extra year). So if they help pay for 2 years, you serve 3. I was in the Army before. I know the Army does not offer podiatry scholarships. However, even as a medical doctor, you must go through a 6 (?) week training. With the Air Force, its only 4 weeks for health professionals. Army will take podiatrists, but as civilian doctors in hospitals. They will not pay for school...yet. For those who are set on the Army career, good luck with what you are doing. But if you are looking for a way to pay back loans and serve, go Air Force.
The Air Force offers scholarships in podiatry, but the Army (who has a bulk of the infantry) doesn't? Once again, our military making no sense!
 

funfeet

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mrfeet said:
The Air Force offers scholarships in podiatry, but the Army (who has a bulk of the infantry) doesn't? Once again, our military making no sense!

No, i definently know it doesnt make sense. been there and done that. I've actually talked to many people in the military about this. But if you are just wanting to do the military thing for the money and scholarships, you can do air force. Training is shorter anyways. Air force also does offer financial help for residency time as well. I'm not sure if navy/marines have podiatry scholarships however. they might, but i never looked into it.
 
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funfeet said:
No, i definently know it doesnt make sense. been there and done that. I've actually talked to many people in the military about this. But if you are just wanting to do the military thing for the money and scholarships, you can do air force. Training is shorter anyways. Air force also does offer financial help for residency time as well. I'm not sure if navy/marines have podiatry scholarships however. they might, but i never looked into it.
The Navy provides all of the medical care for the Marine Corps. I have talked to several Navy doctors and they have told me that podiatrists do not qualify for Navy Health Scholarships. The Navy, like the Army, contracts out civilian podiatrists to do a bulk of their foot and ankle work. Yes, the Air Force is always an option.
 

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mrfeet said:
The Navy provides all of the medical care for the Marine Corps. I have talked to several Navy doctors and they have told me that podiatrists do not qualify for Navy Health Scholarships. The Navy, like the Army, contracts out civilian podiatrists to do a bulk of their foot and ankle work. Yes, the Air Force is always an option.
This is weird to me b/c when I discussed this with the Air Guard, podiatry was not an option. I understand the structure of the military, but usually the DOD make scholarship decisions together. Are you 100% sure that the Air Force gives the Military scholarships to podiatrists? As I understood the situation, no branch offered it to podiatrists. You can still enter the military as a pod, you just don't get the money to pay off your loans.
 
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Dr_Feelgood said:
This is weird to me b/c when I discussed this with the Air Guard, podiatry was not an option. I understand the structure of the military, but usually the DOD make scholarship decisions together. Are you 100% sure that the Air Force gives the Military scholarships to podiatrists? As I understood the situation, no branch offered it to podiatrists. You can still enter the military as a pod, you just don't get the money to pay off your loans.
Well, when I met with the Air Force recruiter several months ago, she told me that had I not missed the deadline, they would have offered me a scholarship. Ofcourse, the Army recruiter was also going to offer me a scholarship until he found out from his superiors that DPM's don't qualify. The Air Force recruiter could have made the same mistake, but she seemed to be certain that she could offer me a health scholarship and pay off my loans. I'll do more investigation.
 

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I've brought this up before but don't believe anyone responded....

I have heard from several people that podiatry students do not qualify for the HSPS their first year but, after this, they may apply and can be accepted in the 2nd year. Does anyone know about this? The people who told me are very reliable sources and they don't even know each other. Any ideas?

AZPOD Rocks
 

GetnMyFtNtheDor

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Hello, everyone. I have never posted her but been viewing this forum for several years. I have always been interested in podiatry. I'm the son of a successful podiatrist; I should be applying in a year or so. But anyway, I've been researching and I came across this thread. It is my understanding that the NAVY has a new program called HSCP (not HSPS) that will fund our education if we choose to go that route. This program is only offered by the Navy (no other military branches). Under this program we would classify as an E-7 while we are in school. They would pay us E-7 salary. Out of that, we would pay for our school,books, and living expenses. Then when we graduate we will rank as an O-3 Officer in the Navy. Atleast, this is my understanding. Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong but this information can be viewed at navy.com
 
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GetnMyFtNtheDor

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[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]U.S. Navy - Health Services Collegiate Program.
Only offered through the United States Navy, this unique program is an excellent opportunity to earn money and benefits while finishing a required degree (Masters or PhD) for the job openings that are available. Typically these include Health Care Administration, Entomology, Environmental Health, Pharmacy, Podiatry (Surgical Residents only), and Dental. Additional openings in other fields may be available on a case-by-case basis annually. This program may be two or three years in length. There are four-year positions available for dental students only.

Minimum Qualifications: U.S. citizen, at least 18 and receive commission before 42nd birthday, excellent health, 3.0 or higher GPA, and of high moral character.

Value: Participants in this program will receive approximately $2,400-$2,800 per month take-home pay depending on school location and marital status. This equates to approximately $30,000-$36,000 per year gross pay. Students must pay their own tuition and school costs. Students pay taxes only on a portion of this income and are entitled to most of the benefits of being an active duty member. Other benefits include: medical and dental coverage (for student and dependents), $400,000 life insurance available for student (spouses can receive coverage for minimal charge and children automatically are covered for $10,000 at no charge), Thrift Savings Plan (Similar to 401K), students earn 30 days vacation each year in the program, time in this program counts towards retirement (20-year eligibility) and longevity for pay raises with many more benefits. No uniforms, grooming standards, or military training while in school.

Student's responsibilities: Maintain at least a 2.8 GPA while in this program, contact recruiter twice monthly (once in person, if possible), ensure recruiter receives official transcripts each semester, successfully complete the Navy semi-annual Physical Readiness Test.
 

diabeticfootdr

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This was a big issue in the APMSA house in 2002-2003. I can try to see what came of it then to see why it is dead in the water
I led this effort in 02-03, and I'll tell you, I didn't only hit road blocks with the DoD, but with APMA as well. After APMSA passed the resolution to seek equal pay for equal work for military DPMs, Faye Frankfort the legislative liaison at APMA, did not feel it an important enough issue to pursue. Probably because there are few DPMs in the military. But we have to speak for them, since the are censured and can not speak for themselves.

I did write letters to the DoD and eventually VP Cheney. The DoD said that there is 1. no 'wartime mission' for DPMs, and 2. no shortage of them in the military. But if you look at the wartime mission of a dentist, it is triage. And the wartime mission of a veterinarian, is food inspection/safety. VP Cheney's staff wrote me and said they investigated the matter with the DoD and gave me the same response.

The central issue is that DPMs are in the Medical Services Corps, with PTs, MHAs, etc. They are not in the Medical Corps with the MDs and DOs. Dentists and Vets (and nurses) have their own corps. If you are not in the medical corps you don't qualify for scholarships or loan repayment, or for the medical corps bonus pay with brings your salary up from an standard O-3, to that commensurate with a physician.

I communicated with a DPM in the military who was an O-6 (Capt. in Navy, Col. in others), he had served 16 years and earned ~ $76,000 per year. Compare that with the years of double average pay in the civilian sector.

This should be a major issue. My suggestion is to contact the 2 presidential candidates staff members from the APMSA, ask them to commit to moving the DPMs into the Medical Corps, or at least providing the same benefits.

The sad truth is (where the military is right), if there are DPMs willing to work for $60k, why pay them any more??? We need a little more professional self-respect, and say "NO", we won't let our highly trained military surgeons who keep the boots on the ground to be indentured.

If you do decide to go into the military as a DPM, go into it realizing you'll make half to a third as much money as your civilian colleagues, and make sure your primary reason is because you love the military and this country.

LCR
 
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LCR, great post!

What about pharmacists & optometrists which qualify for loan repayment... and also currently have accession bonuses?

DPM, Pharm, Opt are all in the medical service corp - I understand supply and demand will drive this, however I just wanted to chime in as I'm curious since they are all in the same med serv corp if that was the reason they weren't getting loan repayments.
 

GetnMyFtNtheDor

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HSCP is not a "scholarship" per se. It is a "program" Health Services Collegiate Program" to be exact. There is no loan repayment. The Navy pay the student (E-7 pay while in school) and the student pays for school out of pocket. In addition the student will receive most of the military benefits of active duty.
 

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I led this effort in 02-03, and I'll tell you, I didn't only hit road blocks with the DoD, but with APMA as well. After APMSA passed the resolution to seek equal pay for equal work for military DPMs, Faye Frankfort the legislative liaison at APMA, did not feel it an important enough issue to pursue. Probably because there are few DPMs in the military. But we have to speak for them, since the are censured and can not speak for themselves.

I did write letters to the DoD and eventually VP Cheney. The DoD said that there is 1. no 'wartime mission' for DPMs, and 2. no shortage of them in the military. But if you look at the wartime mission of a dentist, it is triage. And the wartime mission of a veterinarian, is food inspection/safety. VP Cheney's staff wrote me and said they investigated the matter with the DoD and gave me the same response.

The central issue is that DPMs are in the Medical Services Corps, with PTs, MHAs, etc. They are not in the Medical Corps with the MDs and DOs. Dentists and Vets (and nurses) have their own corps. If you are not in the medical corps you don't qualify for scholarships or loan repayment, or for the medical corps bonus pay with brings your salary up from an standard O-3, to that commensurate with a physician.

I communicated with a DPM in the military who was an O-6 (Capt. in Navy, Col. in others), he had served 16 years and earned ~ $76,000 per year. Compare that with the years of double average pay in the civilian sector.

This should be a major issue. My suggestion is to contact the 2 presidential candidates staff members from the APMSA, ask them to commit to moving the DPMs into the Medical Corps, or at least providing the same benefits.

The sad truth is (where the military is right), if there are DPMs willing to work for $60k, why pay them any more??? We need a little more professional self-respect, and say "NO", we won't let our highly trained military surgeons who keep the boots on the ground to be indentured.

If you do decide to go into the military as a DPM, go into it realizing you'll make half to a third as much money as your civilian colleagues, and make sure your primary reason is because you love the military and this country.

LCR

I remember reading in some income survey that the average starting salary for podiatrists was ~$60k. Just an off-topic quip, but how do new podiatrists manage to pay-off monthly loan fees and all other common expenses on such paltry (for a doctor, that is) salaries? Is it common for recent graduates to live with their parents during their first few years of practice?
 

diabeticfootdr

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I remember reading in some income survey that the average starting salary for podiatrists was ~$60k. Just an off-topic quip, but how do new podiatrists manage to pay-off monthly loan fees and all other common expenses on such paltry (for a doctor, that is) salaries? Is it common for recent graduates to live with their parents during their first few years of practice?
The average starting salary is far above $60k. If you agree to work for $60k when you graduate residency (as a surgical subspecialist) you should see a neurologist to have your head examined.

If you allow yourself to be "preyed" upon and accept a job for that little money, I have no advice on how to pay your bills. None of my friends who graduated from residency made less than $100k, and most got offers >$120k.
 
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I remember reading in some income survey that the average starting salary for podiatrists was ~$60k. Just an off-topic quip, but how do new podiatrists manage to pay-off monthly loan fees and all other common expenses on such paltry (for a doctor, that is) salaries? Is it common for recent graduates to live with their parents during their first few years of practice?
HenryH,
off topic but relevant to all situations!
I know we are both hoping to have a kind current POD student to send us the salary survey that they have access to from APMA... (please assist, just IM me.. I will be much obliged) but I did read from someone... very secondhand... that the survey only included those who worked for podiatrists, as opposed to pods whom owned an establishment.... and also included the salaries of those in residency and thus the lower $ amount.
However - if a caring pod student sends me the info..i will surely pass it to you..
 

spo01

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I remember reading in some income survey that the average starting salary for podiatrists was ~$60k. Just an off-topic quip, but how do new podiatrists manage to pay-off monthly loan fees and all other common expenses on such paltry (for a doctor, that is) salaries? Is it common for recent graduates to live with their parents during their first few years of practice?
A little part of me dies inside every time I read one of your posts...
 

jonwill

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I remember reading in some income survey that the average starting salary for podiatrists was ~$60k. Just an off-topic quip, but how do new podiatrists manage to pay-off monthly loan fees and all other common expenses on such paltry (for a doctor, that is) salaries? Is it common for recent graduates to live with their parents during their first few years of practice?

Yea, it would be pretty hard to pay off 150K in loans only making 60K a year. Come to think of it, who in their right mind would go in debt six figures to start at 60K a year???

I'm not sure where people read these things but they are grossly incorrect. Even the "online salary wizards" are 6 figures.
 

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A little part of me dies inside every time I read one of your posts...
I couldn't care less if reading one of my posts caused you to drop dead.

And for others questioning the source of the $60k figure: it was taken from an official APMA survey (I think the specific number was $66k).
 
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jonwill

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I couldn't care less if reading one of my posts caused you to drop dead.

And for others questioning the source of the $60k figure: it was taken from an official APMA survey (I think the specific number was $66k).
Probably some type of base salary or something. Who knows. I think a board member of ACFAS said it best when he stated, "If you do a 3-year residency and take anything less than six figures your first year out, you're a sucker." The lowest I've personally seen is 120K.
 

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I couldn't care less if reading one of my posts caused you to drop dead.

And for others questioning the source of the $60k figure: it was taken from an official APMA survey (I think the specific number was $66k).
i think that figure is based on podiatrists who work part time, as well. they average it all out.. full time salaries, part time salaries, old pods, newer pods, etc
 

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i dont know if anyone is still wanting to know about this or not but i will be starting the HSCP program this fall. We dont qualify for HPSP in the first year for any branch (that i know of) so the collegiate program seemed like a good deal.
 

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i dont know if anyone is still wanting to know about this or not but i will be starting the HSCP program this fall. We dont qualify for HPSP in the first year for any branch (that i know of) so the collegiate program seemed like a good deal.
check PM...thanks!

-HM2
 

HenryH

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So the only reason to do the Navy program is for the monthly stipend received while in school? Since there's no tuition repayment...what's the point, other than for the extra money per month?
 

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So the only reason to do the Navy program is for the monthly stipend received while in school? Since there's no tuition repayment...what's the point, other than for the extra money per month?
No..There are many advantages to the HSCP...

1) If you are prior service (like me) this is a better choice, since the years in pod school will count towards retirement...I have (6) years prior active and (2) in current Navy Reserve so when I start residency while in the Navy, I will have (10) years towards retirement!! Just 10 more to go!!! Thats at least an extra 30k+ in your pocket afterwards depending on rank....

2) You get ALL privileges just as if you are a Active Duty sailor...This means, you get medical + dental benefits......This is GREAT if you have a family....U also get added stuff like housing allowance (based on area), cost of living allowance (in case you go to Cali, where houses are $$$), and food allowance..

3) You'll get paid as an E-6...This'll be about $40,000 a year depending on allowances as stated above...U make the deans list and get paid as a E-7.(more $$)..If you go to a cheap school, then you'll be able to afford paying for loans...

These are just a FEW benefits to the HSCP vs. something like the HPSP.....It really is a greatest option for those who are prior service and want to retire..

Hope this answers your question...

-HM2
 

GetnMyFtNtheDor

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DPM2B,

I am a rising junior in undergrad right now. This plan seems like a viable option for me. I've done my research on the Navy and I plan on entering the HSCP program once I'm accepted and I graduate. I just have a few questions....

According to what I've read on the navy.com website, this program only covers 3 years for pods (I could be wrong, but I read that it only covers 4 years for pre-dents) . Also, do I have to do a navy residency; or will they defer my repayment time until I finish? If you could also give me some information on basic training and physical fitness requirements; that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

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DPM2B,

I am a rising junior in undergrad right now. This plan seems like a viable option for me. I've done my research on the Navy and I plan on entering the HSCP program once I'm accepted and I graduate. I just have a few questions....

According to what I've read on the navy.com website, this program only covers 3 years for pods (I could be wrong, but I read that it only covers 4 years for pre-dents) . Also, do I have to do a navy residency; or will they defer my repayment time until I finish? If you could also give me some information on basic training and physical fitness requirements; that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
I have been researching the HSCP program through the navy as well and it seems like a pretty good deal if you are interested in serving your country (which I am). The problem I see with it is that if you are only going to put your minimum amount of duty time in is it really worth it because it essentially sets you back 3-4 years after residency when you could be using that time to either build a practice or enter a group practice. I am still unsure about what I am going to do, but one this is for sure that the military isn't for everyone and you better make sure you are willing to make the most of it otherwise it wouldn't be worth doing.

Also, I do not believe that there are any Navy Pod residency programs. I know that there is an Army residency, but that is the only armed services residency that I am aware of.
 

allenmarchallo

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I have been researching the HSCP program through the navy as well and it seems like a pretty good deal if you are interested in serving your country (which I am). The problem I see with it is that if you are only going to put your minimum amount of duty time in is it really worth it because it essentially sets you back 3-4 years after residency when you could be using that time to either build a practice or enter a group practice. I am still unsure about what I am going to do, but one this is for sure that the military isn't for everyone and you better make sure you are willing to make the most of it otherwise it wouldn't be worth doing.

Also, I do not believe that there are any Navy Pod residency programs. I know that there is an Army residency, but that is the only armed services residency that I am aware of.

Yeah, you are right....If you aren't considering making it a career, then it usually won't benefit you.....The point of the HSCP is to let your school years count towards retirement so you can eventually retire 3-4 years earlier....The greatest benefit is to the people who are prior service, or if you have a CHEAP school...(There are no cheap pod. schools though)...That and you get free Med/dent benefits 4 your family...Not a bad deal....

But, it's better than nothing....The HPSP isn't available to pods just yet but perhaps one day it will be...

Yeah, you're also correct that the Army has a residency...(A good one I hear, aswell)....The Navy allows you to go to a civilian residency.....I went to the Navy Hospital today to the podiatry clinic, and all (3) pods were DEPLOYED !!! lol.....I did manage to talk to 1 of the 3 orthopods (MD), about residency for general pods, and he wasn't sure...I will talk to a Navy pod (reservist) pretty soon, and let you know how they work it 4 sure.....

You won't find TOO many pods in the Navy....A lot are getting out/not coming in these days.....I've talked to (4) recent graduating pods, all from different schools, and not 1 went into the Navy (to their knowledge).....However, (2) went to Army....Dang!!....It's really not advantageous for many to go into the service now....$60k in the military vs. $150k+ civilian???? ----it takes some dedication...lol...

The Navy pods here don't do very much.....Here they usually do waiver requests (for the PRT), bunions, and orthotics...lol....The orthopod I met today (filling for the 3 deployed pods) pulled me privately into his office and told me to reconsider coming into the Navy as a pod...He also said that the current pods gladly left (for deployment) b/c they weren't getting good enough surgical cases...(ouch)...I'm going to do it anyway, simply b/c I enjoy working with other Corpsmen and serving my country while I'm at it....

-HM2
 

DPM2B

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sorry for not responding sooner, dont get on here very much. For people asking about the residency you can do whichever residency that you wish with the HSCP. While there is added benefits to doing a military residency such as loan repayment and added salary I still plan on trying to get into a nice civilian residency like fairfax etc...

honestly its not for everyone...you will get paid about 2300 a month salary, will get a food allowance of about 300 a month, and a housing allowance depending on where u live (well over 2000 a month if you are living in new york for example) This is about 4000 a month give or take a few bucks. No uniforms are required, u will have to pass physical fitness test twice a year, and will owe back four years.

The program is probably better for those planning on retiring but for others considering it i will let you know i have no plans on retiring from military myself. you will get paid as a captain 0-3 when u graduate and yes while the salary is about 60,000 for that paygrade you also get that same housing allowance, food allowance, free health insurance for you and/or family, zero malpractice, etc which begins to add up nicely. I also think it will be a nice way to get into the proffession considering the fact that you dont have to find your patients since it is done for you or have to deal with insurance companies and trying to get paid bc you already know you check is coming every month. I think this would help me ease myself into the field since i prob dont have the business savvy as well as many of you. But that is just me

once again, def not for everyone but something to consider for those not eager about all the loans
 

GetnMyFtNtheDor

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Thanks, that was very useful information. HSCP is definately something I will consider
 

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Come to think of it, who in their right mind would go in debt six figures to start at 60K a year???
Physical therapist, specifically the ones wanting a DPT, Extra 40k for a "D"
 
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