ADHD stimulant meds-Dishonest performance enhancer or useful tool for students?

[170]

*Assuming the user doesn't actually have ADHD or ADD.

-Because as you may already know ADHD is often misdiagnosed.


In my opinion, I think they are helpful to students regardless of ADHD diagnosis. I don't think its along the same lines of dishonesty as steroids are in baseball. But the adverse side effects of current ADHD stimulants are enough to keep them federally controlled.

Your thoughts?

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[All4MyDaughter]

I think the use of ADHD meds to enhance academic performance (in a patient without a legit diagnosis) is pretty much exactly the same thing as the use of anabolic steroids by athletes. I don't see much difference.

 

[apteryx]

I'd be sure to share that point of view in your admissions interview.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'd be sure to share that point of view in your admissions interview.

Good call! I agree.

 

[170]

I'd be sure to share that point of view in your admissions interview.

I guess the way I worded it made me come across as if I would condone illegal ADHD usage.

Sorry, but I do not support that, I simply said that it does help students and I don't think its as bad as steroids are in baseball. Kind of like saying an verbal insult isn't as bad as a physical one. But of coarse they are both bad. And I did state that they should be kept federally controlled.

 

[Passion4Sci]

What the heck was going through your head when you made this thread, seriously???

 

[rxlea]

It's pretty much the same level of "dishonesty" as using steroids in sports. It's just that the media will have you believe that steroids are super duper terrible. I don't see how stimulants are any different.. Nonetheless, plenty of people misuse (and abuse) stimulants during professional school- there has been quite a bit of research conducted on this topic. Personally, I see the logic behind it, especially for med students/residents who are forced to stay up for 24-36 hours. It is quite a tragedy in the system, IMHO. As far as what I think? I don't know... I guess it could be considered a form of "cheating" because you may have the artificial stamina to pull the all nighters or study for extensive periods of time without as much fatigue. I take a CNS stimulant for a legitimate reason and I won't lie that it helps. Do I feel bad about that? Not really. Because without it, I would probably be worse off than my classmates who don't take "performance enhacing" stimulants. There is always the risk that you jeopardize your career by misusing prescription drugs (a given). As far as ethics- I don't know. I guess I have mixed feelings. Sometimes it feels almost impossible to juggle everything and I think many programs (like I said, particularly in medicine) do this stuff on purpose and I think the system has to change. Hmmm.. Maybe someone can convince me in either direction?

 

[R2pharmD2]

I guess the way I worded it made me come across as if I would condone illegal ADHD usage.

Sorry, but I do not support that, I simply said that it does help students and I don't think its as bad as steroids are in baseball. Kind of like saying an verbal insult isn't as bad as a physical one. But of coarse they are both bad. And I did state that they should be kept federally controlled.

Steroids: Illegal substances (unless prescribed) taken to artificially increase physical performance, risking the health of the individual in the process.

ADHD stimulant meds: Illegal substances (unless prescribed) taken to artificially increase mental performance, risking the health of the individual in the process.

I don't see a ton of difference between the two. If a person can't handle their personal obligations (again, a person without diagnosed ADHD) without taking a stimulant, they seriously need to re-prioritize.

 

[pharmhustle]

would you snitch your classmate out if u found out they did it?

 

[pharm B]

Is it snitching if you drop an anonymous tip that this person might need controlled substance abuse counseling?

 

[2411t]

Anabolics are not as bad as the media makes it out to be. I stand indifferent, and I hate how the public scrutinizes it so much when athletes are pressured to break records after records after records after records after records based on human potential alone. And in the same light, they aren't as harmful as you might think when the user does his/her post cycle therapy correctly.

How do I know this? I've kinda surrounded myself by a lot of bodybuilders in the past, both amateur and professional.

 

[owlegrad]

Of course ADHD meds taken inappropriately is the same as taking steroid inappropriately. I think that is pretty obvious.

But does that make it wrong? Honestly, I don't think it is. I am not going to go overboard in my support for the abuse of say Adderall, but is it so different than using caffeine to stay awake all night? The biggest difference (setting aside Schedule) is efficacy. I would be willing to bet that caffeine has worse long-term effect to boot (just a guess). I haven't used it myself, but I have thought about it and I don't think less of my classmates who do use it. Why shouldn't they?

Why is it wrong to take steroids? Bodybuilders take all kinds of supplements, again the biggest difference to me (besides Schedule) is efficacy. They still have to exercise, etc. All they are doing is taking something that will make their efforts more effective. I honestly do not know why it is so villainized. That is basically how I feel about ADHD meds, you still have to study, etc. It is just making you more effective/making it easier.

I somewhat liken it to Viagra and it's ilk. There cannot possibly be as much ED as there is ED medications dispensed. It is no secret that people use them to enhance performance. And why shouldn't they? If you get benefit from a medication, why shouldn't you use it?

 

[chakapow]

9:29 a.m.: Bell said Bonds developed acne, lost hair, testicles became smaller
Kimberly Bell testified that Bonds' physical characteristics changed dramatically around 1999 to 2001, from acne on his back to losing his hair to bloating. And, her voice growing softer, she described how Bonds' testicles became smaller and he had trouble performing sexually, something that marked a change. "This was not something he ever experienced before," she said

PS. I'm going to school to sell drugs not to take them.
Also.........PLAY BALL!

 

[R2pharmD2]

Of course ADHD meds taken inappropriately is the same as taking steroid inappropriately. I think that is pretty obvious.

But does that make it wrong? Honestly, I don't think it is. I am not going to go overboard in my support for the abuse of say Adderall, but is it so different than using caffeine to stay awake all night? The biggest difference (setting aside Schedule) is efficacy. I would be willing to bet that caffeine has worse long-term effect to boot (just a guess). I haven't used it myself, but I have thought about it and I don't think less of my classmates who do use it. Why shouldn't they?

Why is it wrong to take steroids? Bodybuilders take all kinds of supplements, again the biggest difference to me (besides Schedule) is efficacy. They still have to exercise, etc. All they are doing is taking something that will make their efforts more effective. I honestly do not know why it is so villainized. That is basically how I feel about ADHD meds, you still have to study, etc. It is just making you more effective/making it easier.

I somewhat liken it to Viagra and it's ilk. There cannot possibly be as much ED as there is ED medications dispensed. It is no secret that people use them to enhance performance. And why shouldn't they? If you get benefit from a medication, why shouldn't you use it?

My thinking is that when a person decides to use steroids/adderall/whatever they get both the risks and benefits associated with that medication. Most people might not be willing to take on the risks, but if they want to remain competitive they're pressured to do so if their competitors are. And pharmacy school/landing a residency/getting a job is just as competitive as any athletic event.

 

[owlegrad]

My thinking is that when a person decides to use steroids/adderall/whatever they get both the risks and benefits associated with that medication. Most people might not be willing to take on the risks, but if they want to remain competitive they're pressured to do so if their competitors are. And pharmacy school/landing a residency/getting a job is just as competitive as any athletic event.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. But lets be honest here, the pressure already exists for many, and I can't bring myself to think those that take Adderall are wrong to do so. I agree that you weigh risk vs benefit - not so different that drinking massive amounts of caffeine or any other substance. Is it inherently unfair that some use Adderall while others don't? Sure, but it's unfair that some are born smarter than others. Life is unfair. I don't think using drugs to enhance performance is wrong. We already do that - it's just a matter of where do you draw the line?

 

[Passion4Sci]

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. But lets be honest here, the pressure already exists for many, and I can't bring myself to think those that take Adderall are wrong to do so. I agree that you weigh risk vs benefit - not so different that drinking massive amounts of caffeine or any other substance. Is it inherently unfair that some use Adderall while others don't? Sure, but it's unfair that some are born smarter than others. Life is unfair. I don't think using drugs to enhance performance is wrong. We already do that - it's just a matter of where do you draw the line?

You draw the line where Uncle Sam tells you to draw the line.

Can you go buy Dextroamphetamine off the shelf at Wal-Mart? No, and until you can, it is absolutely not acceptable to use it off-label for "performance enhancement."

I can't even believe this discussion is happening.

I mean, PCP sure would make me run faster... I guess I should go grab some. And I REALLY need to relax better on the weekends, so I should add LSD to my list, since I am under a lot of pressure, a good trip will really be a performance enhancement for me.

C'mon people.

 

[chakapow]

You draw the line where Uncle Sam tells you to draw the line.

Can you go buy Dextroamphetamine off the shelf at Wal-Mart? No, and until you can, it is absolutely not acceptable to use it off-label for "performance enhancement."

I can't even believe this discussion is happening.

I mean, PCP sure would make me run faster... I guess I should go grab some. And I REALLY need to relax better on the weekends, so I should add LSD to my list, since I am under a lot of pressure, a good trip will really be a performance enhancement for me.

C'mon people.

You are going to have a hard time relaxing while taking LSD.

 

[2411t]

This discussion is kinda grey. Are we talking wrong in an ethical or legal standpoint? B/C they obv lead to different arguments.

 

[MathDebate]

This discussion is kinda grey. Are we talking wrong in an ethical or legal standpoint? B/C they obv lead to different arguments.

The legal standpoint is pretty obvious. As far as ethics goes, I think it's up to the individual. I'm fine with it as long as other people aren't negatively affected.

You draw the line where Uncle Sam tells you to draw the line.

Can you go buy Dextroamphetamine off the shelf at Wal-Mart? No, and until you can, it is absolutely not acceptable to use it off-label for "performance enhancement."

I can't even believe this discussion is happening.

I mean, PCP sure would make me run faster... I guess I should go grab some. And I REALLY need to relax better on the weekends, so I should add LSD to my list, since I am under a lot of pressure , a good trip will really be a performance enhancement for me.

C'mon people.

Trippin balls, yes. Running and relaxing, no!

 

[owlegrad]

You draw the line where Uncle Sam tells you to draw the line.

Can you go buy Dextroamphetamine off the shelf at Wal-Mart? No, and until you can, it is absolutely not acceptable to use it off-label for "performance enhancement."

I can't even believe this discussion is happening.

I mean, PCP sure would make me run faster... I guess I should go grab some. And I REALLY need to relax better on the weekends, so I should add LSD to my list, since I am under a lot of pressure, a good trip will really be a performance enhancement for me.

C'mon people.

I agree with the first part, if a substance is illegal, it is illegal. Doesn't mean I agree or disagree with that decision, but it is made for me so I don't have to. If it is illegal - that is the end of the conversation for me.

Your problem is that it is used off-label? That is somewhat surprising to me. Students shouldn't use adderall - ok I can see where you are coming from. I don't think "Uncle Sam" actually drew that line - as long as you can get a prescription, you are not breaking the law. It is not illegal to go to your doctor and ask for a prescription for adderall. Medications are used for off-label uses all the time - nothing illegal about that. Do you specifically have a problem with performance enhancement as an off label use? If so, why?

Do you have a problem with any other performance enhancers? Viagra? Again that is not something you can get over the counter and I doubt anyone is going to argue that it is not abused - is that wrong? I don't see how. Weight loss drugs? Now I am kinda stretching it, but my point remains the same. What is wrong with using (legal) drugs to improve yourself? Again we already do that (caffiene, supplaments, etc.), why not prescription meds? (Just to be 100% clear, I am not talking about lying to your doctor or any other unethical behavour. In my fictishous example the prescriber would not be mislead into diagnosing anyone with ADHD or anything like that.)

 

[Busta919]

Bottom line, if your doctor provided a prescription for any of the above mentioned controlled substances, it doesn't matter if it provides an edge.

If, however, these substances are obtained through other means, then that person is subject to undesirable consequences.

In industry, if you are drug tested for a substance that you do not have a valid prescription for.... you are done, goodbye, no second chance.

I would think you should be concerned if you found a classmate who was illegally acquiring controlled substances. Particularly if it was affecting their judgement. Leopards do not change their spots, I would not anticipate that person to change their habit unless caught. If however, they requested help, then there is another set of consequences, which may not result in expulsion or loss of job/position. They would however have to abide by a set of conditions which are non-negotiable. (At least in industry).

 

[All4MyDaughter]

RE: the question of snitching on a classmate who you think is using performance enhancing drugs

I don't care that they might be getting "an edge" over me or whatever. No drug is going to make someone any smarter. They might have more energy or be able to stay up longer than me, but it really doesn't affect me or anyone else. Now, if I thought a friend or classmate was abusing drugs of any type and putting themselves or others at risk of harm or death, then I would probably say something to someone and/or encourage the drug user to seek help.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I agree with the first part, if a substance is illegal, it is illegal. Doesn't mean I agree or disagree with that decision, but it is made for me so I don't have to. If it is illegal - that is the end of the conversation for me.

OK, so far so good, you're still rational...

Your problem is that it is used off-label? That is somewhat surprising to me.

It shouldn't be. I can get a prescription for Cocaine HCl, and for the sake of brevity, "Do some Organic Chemistry", isolate the good stuff and smoke it. That's certainly off label isn't it? How do you feel about that?

Students shouldn't use adderall - ok I can see where you are coming from.

Do you specifically have a problem with performance enhancement as an off label use? If so, why?

I have a problem with a student securing an Rx for Adderall for the express purpose of personal gain. If said student has a legitimate need for Adderall and when s/he uses it it gives him/her that same advantage, then so be it.

Do you have a problem with any other performance enhancers? Viagra?

Do I have a problem with a man with ED taking Viagra or other PDE-5 inhibs. as Rx'd? Absolutely not.

You don't see a problem with people grabbing up Rx's of Vicodin and other opioids for the sole purpose of getting high to be problematic? See, it's not just the performance enhancing angle that bothers me. It's the entire idea, and that encompasses Vicodin fiends too. Why are those pain clinics in FL being targeted for shut down? Because of fraudulent prescriptions. A student going to Dr. McCrackhead for Adderall so he can study for the PCAT better is tantamount to a junky going into a pain clinic for OxyContin so he can get high. It. Is. The. Same. Thing. And it's illegal.

If you get a legit script for OxyContin and while you take it prn back pain you get high, then alright, so be it. Same with Adderall. Same with Viagra. It's when you blur that line into habit or dependence that I grow weary and will object every single time.

 

[2411t]

You don't see a problem with people grabbing up Rx's of Vicodin and other opioids for the sole purpose of getting high to be problematic? See, it's not just the performance enhancing angle that bothers me. It's the entire idea, and that encompasses Vicodin fiends too. Why are those pain clinics in FL being targeted for shut down? Because of fraudulent prescriptions. A student going to Dr. McCrackhead for Adderall so he can study for the PCAT better is tantamount to a junky going into a pain clinic for OxyContin so he can get high. It. Is. The. Same. Thing. And it's illegal.

I don't think this is a completely fair comparison seeing how opioid fiends have a completely different objective than say... the kid who needs some adderall to pull an all-nighter due to whatever circumstances he faced prior to.

 

[R2pharmD2]

I agree with the first part, if a substance is illegal, it is illegal. Doesn't mean I agree or disagree with that decision, but it is made for me so I don't have to. If it is illegal - that is the end of the conversation for me.

Your problem is that it is used off-label? That is somewhat surprising to me. Students shouldn't use adderall - ok I can see where you are coming from. I don't think "Uncle Sam" actually drew that line - as long as you can get a prescription, you are not breaking the law. It is not illegal to go to your doctor and ask for a prescription for adderall. Medications are used for off-label uses all the time - nothing illegal about that. Do you specifically have a problem with performance enhancement as an off label use? If so, why?

Do you have a problem with any other performance enhancers? Viagra? Again that is not something you can get over the counter and I doubt anyone is going to argue that it is not abused - is that wrong? I don't see how. Weight loss drugs? Now I am kinda stretching it, but my point remains the same. What is wrong with using (legal) drugs to improve yourself? Again we already do that (caffiene, supplaments, etc.), why not prescription meds? (Just to be 100% clear, I am not talking about lying to your doctor or any other unethical behavour. In my fictishous example the prescriber would not be mislead into diagnosing anyone with ADHD or anything like that.)

I understand where you're coming from here. I bet it's not that tough to go to a doc and say "Look, I KNOW I don't have ADHD, but I'm really struggling to keep up in school. Think you could hook me up with some adderall for a semester so I don't flunk out of pharmacy school?" and some of them would probably be sympathetic to your cause. There's nothing illegal about that. It still doesn't seem ethical to me though.

It's interesting to think about where you draw the line on things though. I see your point about caffeine, but I don't think it's in quite the same league of addictiveness or health risks (although that's probably debatable) as ADHD meds.

 

[2411t]

just so we're all on the same page, everyone is okay with me getting high off kratom right?

 

[owlegrad]

I understand where you're coming from here. I bet it's not that tough to go to a doc and say "Look, I KNOW I don't have ADHD, but I'm really struggling to keep up in school. Think you could hook me up with some adderall for a semester so I don't flunk out of pharmacy school?" and some of them would probably be sympathetic to your cause. There's nothing illegal about that. It still doesn't seem ethical to me though.

It's interesting to think about where you draw the line on things though. I see your point about caffeine, but I don't think it's in quite the same league of addictiveness or health risks (although that's probably debatable) as ADHD meds.

Caffeine is many times more addictive than ADHD meds, I would bet. As for health risks...caffeine at least raises blood pressure (and who knows what else), does Adderall? I would bet that caffeine is worse than Adderall in just about every way, we have simply had caffeine much longer and it is not scheduled.

 

[owlegrad]

OK, so far so good, you're still rational....

Thanks!

It shouldn't be. I can get a prescription for Cocaine HCl, and for the sake of brevity, "Do some Organic Chemistry", isolate the good stuff and smoke it. That's certainly off label isn't it? How do you feel about that?

I am not sure you can get an outpatient prescription for cocaine, it is only used during surgery, right? If I am wrong so be it. More to the point though - doing what you described is more than just off label, you are using it for a purpose other than what it is prescribed for (presumably). What you described is straight up diversion. I am not for diversion.

I have a problem with a student securing an Rx for Adderall for the express purpose of personal gain. If said student has a legitimate need for Adderall and when s/he uses it it gives him/her that same advantage, then so be it.

Now we are getting to the heart of the matter. Almost everyone who takes Adderall takes it for the same reason. What is a legitimate need? I am having a hard time in pharmacology (true story), is that a legitimate need? What exactly is wrong with taking a med for personal gain? Everyone who takes Adderall takes it for personal gain, I assume you mean only people with ADHD should take it - but I am not sure why that is.

Do I have a problem with a man with ED taking Viagra or other PDE-5 inhibs. as Rx'd? Absolutely not.

I suspect you are being deliberately dense here.

The discussion has been about people taking meds even if they don't really need them. I expressly pointed out my opinion that way more Viagra is dispensed than there are men with ED (well, it's more than my opinion, but I don't care to source it). It is a drug that is used for recreation purposes by men without ED in addition to it's labeled use. That is no secret. Of course my question was about men who take it who do not have ED in the strictest sense of the word. I bet most people do not have a problem with that, nor should they (IMO).

You don't see a problem with people grabbing up Rx's of Vicodin and other opioids for the sole purpose of getting high to be problematic? See, it's not just the performance enhancing angle that bothers me. It's the entire idea, and that encompasses Vicodin fiends too. Why are those pain clinics in FL being targeted for shut down? Because of fraudulent prescriptions. A student going to Dr. McCrackhead for Adderall so he can study for the PCAT better is tantamount to a junky going into a pain clinic for OxyContin so he can get high. It. Is. The. Same. Thing. And it's illegal.

OK here we <partially> agree - I am not in favor of allowing junkies to use fraudulent prescriptions to score their junk. That is wrong/illegal. I can go to my doctor, ask him for something to help me study, and he can oblige if he is so inclined. It is not the same thing, and it certainly is not illegal. Why do you think it is?

If you get a legit script for OxyContin and while you take it prn back pain you get high, then alright, so be it. Same with Adderall. Same with Viagra. It's when you blur that line into habit or dependence that I grow weary and will object every single time.

I am not really talking about habit or dependence though. At least not directly. The question is, is it wrong for students to use ADHD meds in order to study if they don't have ADHD? My answer is no it is not. Now if they are getting the meds "on the street" or by lying to their doctor, etc. that changes the story. But you don't have to do any of that (or so I have been told, I wouldn't know).

 

[R2pharmD2]

Caffeine is many times more addictive than ADHD meds, I would bet. As for health risks...caffeine at least raises blood pressure (and who knows what else), does Adderall? I would bet that caffeine is worse than Adderall in just about every way, we have simply had caffeine much longer and it is not scheduled.

A bit of googling has revealed that there's quite a bit of debate over how addictive caffeine is, or whether the symptoms that come along with caffeine dependence qualify as true addiction, but point taken. Adderall does raise BP for sure though, and it does stimulate one of the reward centers in the brain apparently. Does that make it as/more/less addictive than caffeine? I don't know, but I suspect your right that if people had been consuming low doses of amphetamines on a daily basis for hundreds of years it probably wouldn't be a controlled substance either. If only there were some pharmacy students around who could better explain this so I didn't have to look it up on wikipedia

 

[owlegrad]

A bit of googling has revealed that there's quite a bit of debate over how addictive caffeine is, or whether the symptoms that come along with caffeine dependence qualify as true addiction, but point taken. Adderall does raise BP for sure though, and it does stimulate one of the reward centers in the brain apparently. Does that make it as/more/less addictive than caffeine? I don't know, but I suspect your right that if people had been consuming low doses of amphetamines on a daily basis for hundreds of years it probably wouldn't be a controlled substance either. If only there were some pharmacy students around who could better explain this so I didn't have to look it up on wikipedia

Allow me to end the debate. It is addictive. I really did not know their was a debate - have you ever tried doing without it? It's terrible. I get headaches, the shakes, and my mood becomes foul. Did I mention the headaches? It's awful. Having said that, I have had only two sodas in the last three weeks! I am very proud of myself - I never thought I was gonna be able to break the habit.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'd say amphetamines are more dangerous. I think it's harder to OD on caffeine than on amphetamines.

 

[R2pharmD2]

Allow me to end the debate. It is addictive. I really did not know their was a debate - have you ever tried doing without it? It's terrible. I get headaches, the shakes, and my mood becomes foul. Did I mention the headaches? It's awful. Having said that, I have had only two sodas in the last three weeks! I am very proud of myself - I never thought I was gonna be able to break the habit.

I know exactly what you mean. I had a massive headache today, which went away shortly after I had a coffee. Not the first time I've noticed that either. I guess it depends on how you want to define addiction really though. Compared to trying to quit drinking, smoking, doing crack, etc. it's really easy to quit caffeine. I've never felt like I needed caffeine, but there may be people who do.

 

[owlegrad]

I know exactly what you mean. I had a massive headache today, which went away shortly after I had a coffee. Not the first time I've noticed that either. I guess it depends on how you want to define addiction really though. Compared to trying to quit drinking, smoking, doing crack, etc. it's really easy to quit caffeine. I've never felt like I needed caffeine, but there may be people who do.

I am not trying to call you out friend, but if you think it is so easy to quite, please try. It isn't. I mean ok compared to crack - you got me there. But I bet you might get a new appreciation for addiction if you try. Or maybe you can give it up easily and I am just weak willed.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

It's hard to quit caffeine. At least for me, I really want it. Or I just want Diet Coke. I'm not sure if it's the caffeine or the whole beverage. I don't know if caffeine pills would hold the same appeal.

 

[R2pharmD2]

I am not trying to call you out friend, but if you think it is so easy to quite, please try. It isn't. I mean ok compared to crack - you got me there. But I bet you might get a new appreciation for addiction if you try. Or maybe you can give it up easily and I am just weak willed.

You're on!

I have an exam tomorrow morning, another one each on Tuesday and Wednesday, plus a paper Tuesday and another Thursday, so I'm going to see if I can make it through this stretch without any caffeine whatsoever. No coffee, no cokes, nada. I also pledge to do without any tylenol, ibuprofen, etc. for headaches, should they occur. I am willing to sacrifice my own well-being in the name of science

 

[fturepharmD]

Another aspect to the discussion might be the relatively new diagnosis of "shift work disorder" and how this applies to the class of drugs. The perspective of using these meds to treat sleep disregulation caused by shiftwork disorder could be paralleled to the same challenges seen by some students whereby their "shiftwork" is essentially similar to the demands of studying. For the good or bad, we have become a society that creates demands on individuals that may or not be congruent with an individuals ideal physiologic baseline or optimal functioning.

When a medication is prescribed, its efficacy is often evaluated on the basis as to whether it improves that specific patients quality of life and provides them benefit. (of course this is assuming there is some deficit that warrants a legitimate treatment...and I guess "deficit" could be interpreted to extremes). The reality is, like someone said earlier, these drugs do not make people smarter, and if people were to abuse them and not take them as directed...they could find themselves in a situation where they may actually cause sleep deprivation by worsening sleep patterns. Just because someone take amphetamines, does not mean they are immune to the potential adverse effects; in this case they may actually negate the perceived benefits of why they are taking the medication to begin with.

The reality is, we are all responsible for balancing our lives including all of its demands, developing mechanisms to cope with our defecits and build on our strengths. Who am I to say that - as long as it is done under a doctors orders based on clinical judgement - that it is wrong or right.

 

[owlegrad]

It's hard to quit caffeine. At least for me, I really want it. Or I just want Diet Coke. I'm not sure if it's the caffeine or the whole beverage. I don't know if caffeine pills would hold the same appeal.

I can say for me - I think it may be the whole package (sugar, carbonation, caffeine, God Knows What).

I haven't tried it, but I just don't think caffeine pills would do it for me. I considered Excedrin for the headaches (clever, no?), but being a man it seemed like it wouldn't mean anything unless I did it "cold turkey".

I really hoped I would feel "better" in some way after giving it up (healthier or something), so far - not so much. Other than being proud of myself, no real change. I didn't even lose any weight - I had expected to. I sleep more, and I think I am more headache prone.

Going from greasy, fried fast food to subs and sandwiches did me a world of good though. Lost about 20 pounds and I just feel soooo much better than I used to. I didn't even realize I wasn't feeling good until after the change. That was two years ago though. I think the next big thing I have to do is start an exercise regimen. Anyone here go from being a lazy slob to having an exercise regimen? Any tips?

 

[owlegrad]

You're on!

I have an exam tomorrow morning, another one each on Tuesday and Wednesday, plus a paper Tuesday and another Thursday, so I'm going to see if I can make it through this stretch without any caffeine whatsoever. No coffee, no cokes, nada. I also pledge to do without any tylenol, ibuprofen, etc. for headaches, should they occur. I am willing to sacrifice my own well-being in the name of science

Don't forget the oft-overlooked portion of science - report, report, report! Let us know how it goes!

 

[2411t]

I can safely say I've had one energy drink almost every morning for the past 2 years. It's become an acquired taste and that rush I get when I slam one on an empty stomach wakes me the hell up. Wooooooooooooo! I should quit though....

 

[owlegrad]

I also pledge to do without any tylenol, ibuprofen, etc. for headaches, should they occur. I

I considered Excedrin for the headaches (clever, no?), but being a man it seemed like it wouldn't mean anything unless I did it "cold turkey".

Hilarious that we came to the same conclusion independent of one another! Great men think alike.

 

[R2pharmD2]

Don't forget the oft-overlooked portion of science - report, report, report! Let us know how it goes!

Will do!

I can safely say I've had one energy drink almost every morning for the past 2 years. It's become an acquired taste and that rush I get when I slam one on an empty stomach wakes me the hell up. Wooooooooooooo! I should quit though....

I think for a lot of people, it just becomes part of your daily routine as much as anything. I'm going to find out though.

Hilarious that we came to the same conclusion independent of one another! Great men think alike.

Indeed!

 

[rxlea]

I don't know about y'all but I am busting out my stimulants right now to pull an all nighter. Exam manana!

 

[cjflahave]

Going from greasy, fried fast food to subs and sandwiches did me a world of good though. Lost about 20 pounds and I just feel soooo much better than I used to. I didn't even realize I wasn't feeling good until after the change. That was two years ago though. I think the next big thing I have to do is start an exercise regimen. Anyone here go from being a lazy slob to having an exercise regimen? Any tips?

I treat working out like studying. I schedule an hour a day to work out, P90X, and I'm in the best shape of my life. I feel so amazing, and like you said I didn't even know how bad I felt until I accomplished my goal. I only wish I had started years ago. Do it, you won't regret it!

 

[owlegrad]

I treat working out like studying. I schedule an hour a day to work out, P90X, and I'm in the best shape of my life. I feel so amazing, and like you said I didn't even know how bad I felt until I accomplished my goal. I only wish I had started years ago. Do it, you won't regret it!

Thanks for the encouragement friend! I have heard about this P90X business (on SDN I think, a sign I am on here too much?), is that a good place to start? Isn't it expensive? I guess I could google it, but I would appreciate it if you would share your insight on the matter.

 

[NaOH]

I can safely say I've had one energy drink almost every morning for the past 2 years. It's become an acquired taste and that rush I get when I slam one on an empty stomach wakes me the hell up. Wooooooooooooo! I should quit though....

Last spring, I had an 8AM Micro class... unfortunately during that time my routine breakfast became a NOS energy drink and a Payday. Every. Day.

Trying to break that now. Hard though.

 

[Dave4468]

Which is safer, Adderall or coffee? If adderall is safer than coffee and people find it more effective, then I say it should be legal as a study-aid. Why not?

Allow me to end the debate. It is addictive. I really did not know their was a debate - have you ever tried doing without it? It's terrible. I get headaches, the shakes, and my mood becomes foul. Did I mention the headaches? It's awful. Having said that, I have had only two sodas in the last three weeks! I am very proud of myself - I never thought I was gonna be able to break the habit.

I personally don't ever feel like I need it (though I have been able to quit smoking cold turkey no problem). I agree though about the headaches and losing its effectiveness when you consume it consecutively over a period of time.

Have you tried cycling it? I usually only drink coffee during weeks when I need the extra edge in studying, and then I wont drink it for the next couple of weeks and I'm fine. It always hits me pretty strong the days I drink it and the days I don't drink it aren't that bad at all.

 

[owlegrad]

Have you tried cycling it? I usually only drink coffee during weeks when I need the extra edge in studying, and then I wont drink it for the next couple of weeks and I'm fine. It always hits me pretty strong the days I drink it and the days I don't drink it aren't that bad at all.

I haven't tried. I suspect I will be back on the sauce for finals, it will be interesting to see if I can go back off it as easily. I did notice how much more it effected me after being off it for a while. We shall see.

 

[Dave4468]

I haven't tried. I suspect I will be back on the sauce for finals, it will be interesting to see if I can go back off it as easily. I did notice how much more it effected me after being off it for a while. We shall see.

report, report, report

 

[owlegrad]

Well I never claimed to be doing it for science, but if you insist.

report, report, report

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I like my new avatar.