Advise on NP route

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dwightkschrute96

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Hello,
I am graduating in 2 years with a BSN. My career goal is to be a Family Nurse Practitioner. I need advice on which route to choose.
The Options:
A: Doing BSN to DNP program part-time while working as a nurse.
B: Working as a nurse for 2 years then applying to a BSN to DNP program
C: Enrolling into my schools 5 year BSN to NP program. Choosing this route would require me to stay in school for an extra year then graduate with my BSN and MSN specializing in adult care. I feel like if I did choose this route, I would eventually have to get my DNP.

Any and all kinds of advise is greatly appreciated!
Thanks

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Halfway through college? Go to medical school. The NP route is for people who thought they would like nursing but later decided that they don't want to take orders. It's a political loop hole but isn't what's best for your patients. However. If you're just after the money and don't actually care about the quality of care you offer, by all means skip doctor school and start doctoring.
 
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Halfway through college? Go to medical school. The NP route is for people who thought they would like nursing but later decided that they don't want to take orders. It's a political loop hole but isn't what's best for your patients. However. If you're just after the money and don't actually care about the quality of care you offer, by all means skip doctor school and start doctoring.

Doctoring? I'll be Nurse Practitioner who just happens to have a doctorate... I don't want to go to medical school. I'm totally fine with being a midlevel practitioner. Instead off demeaning other professions giving me advise that pertains to my question would be great, thanks...
 
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"Any and all kinds of advice is greatly appreciated."

Sorry. Just trying to help you out. By all means... ignore feedback and dive in feet first. If you just want to be told what you'd like to hear... let me know what that is and I'll be happy to copy paste.
 
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"Any and all kinds of advice is greatly appreciated."

Sorry. Just trying to help you out. By all means... ignore feedback and dive in feet first. If you just want to be told what you'd like to hear... let me know what that is and I'll be happy to copy paste.

Any and all kinds of advised relating to my question. I thought that was a given. For a 26 year old, you sure do sound a bit immature. Are you just one of the many trolls on this website?
 
I recommend option A: part time online education. Don't pay less than $200,000. Find a busy area where lots of MDs practice and build a clinic right across the street, using more loans of course. You're going to do awesome. I wish you all of the luck in the world friend. May your personal legacy and profession prosper forever.
 
I'd suggest enrolling in the MSN or FNP courses immediately, taking as many as you can, and working a bit more than you feel able. Keep your costs down and pay out of pocket for any or all of your tuition. Don't tack on any time or expense you don't need to earn the RN and FNP credentials.
 
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DNP is great way to make lots of money and put your patients at risk if you do not put effort and extra vigilance in compared to the bare bones. Ive seen a wide range of scary behavior from NPs. You must have humility, the level of training isn't there to adequately and safely care for patients independently. Do you want to be the best you can? or are you just looking for a job and shortcuts. thats really the difference. good luck

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
 
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I'd suggest enrolling in the MSN or FNP courses immediately, taking as many as you can, and working a bit more than you feel able. Keep your costs down and pay out of pocket for any or all of your tuition. Don't tack on any time or expense you don't need to earn the RN and FNP credentials.

Thank you! Also, by the time I graduate it will be 2019. Do you think it's going to be a requirement to get your DNP in order to work as a Nurse Practitioner? I just want to be an NP, I was totally fine with getting a MSN but the AANP seems like they're forcing the issue.
 
I recommend option A: part time online education. Don't pay less than $200,000. Find a busy area where lots of MDs practice and build a clinic right across the street, using more loans of course. You're going to do awesome. I wish you all of the luck in the world friend. May your personal legacy and profession prosper forever.
The salt is strong with this future MD
 
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Thank you! Also, by the time I graduate it will be 2019. Do you think it's going to be a requirement to get your DNP in order to work as a Nurse Practitioner? I just want to be an NP, I was totally fine with getting a MSN but the AANP seems like they're forcing the issue.
Do DNP. It seems like with more people going the NP route that that will set you apart from the rest.
 
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Look to allnurses.com and post there. The amount of information and site traffic there is massive compare to this sub-forum. There're a lot of hate for the NP certification on this website. You'll get more helpful answers at allnurses.
 
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Any and all kinds of advised relating to my question. I thought that was a given. For a 26 year old, you sure do sound a bit immature. Are you just one of the many trolls on this website?

I'm not a "troll" on this or ANY website, and I would give you the same advice that Sansa did. If you want to practice medicine (and despite legalistic semantics, that's what PA/NPs really do), then the best path for that is REAL medical school. You're still in undergrad, take the hard classes (OChem, Biochem, Physics) and study for the MCAT.

Get into medical school, do a residency, become a BC physician.

If you CAN'T get into medical school (and lots of good people don't), then consider PA or NP.

If you WANT to be a NURSE, then BE A NURSE. Huge difference between what nurses do and what medical providers do.

There is a lot of information at AllNurses...but beware, virtually all of that information will be very one-sided.
 
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There sure is.

Here, as well.

MD side: more training is better for patients

NP side: extra training is a hassle. We can make money right now

Pick your side I guess. I know who will be taking care of my family when it hits the fan.
 
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There sure is.

Here, as well.
Really? You, PAMAC, Makati, me, plus various Stu Docs who come & go....pretty varied experience & opinions there. You even have the militant, yet ridiculously naive DNP students here as well.
 
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MD side: more training is better for patients

NP side: extra training is a hassle. We can make money right now

Pick your side I guess. I know who will be taking care of my family when it hits the fan.

I think you'll find a faction of us calling for an overhaul of NP education. I beat that drum on Allnurses under the similar name Psych Guy. It is what it is, unfortunately. I really think the highest quality outcome we could see in healthcare is restriction of FMGs.

I truly don't think the quality of "midlevel" practice is at the heart of the anti midlevel rhetoric, yet it provides a less jaded forum for Inquisition. My opinion is that it all boils down to defensive posturing and each of our own needs to have a sense of purpose and accomplishment along with economics. If I make 200k on a 30k investment, why would I invest 200k to make 250k - more consumed resources and greater opportunity cost with a largely identical role in the office.

If I were 18 again, I'd pursue premed...back when I was 18. If I were 18 today, I'd pursue something not dependent on satisfaction and third party regulation. At 18, I had no idea what to do, at 21 I had a BS and was cum laude. I taught high school biology and chemistry for a year and then spontaneously decided to become a police officer which I did for years. In all sincerity, my dream career is with the National Clandestine Service, but my youthful self-defeatist attitude prevented me from doing anything competitive. The fact that I'm in mental health, do well at it, and enjoy it is quite unexpected and somewhat paradoxical to my personality.
 
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Really? You, PAMAC, Makati, me, plus various Stu Docs who come & go....pretty varied experience & opinions there. You even have the militant, yet ridiculously naive DNP students here as well.

I think we misread each other. I was really only referring to the med student kids who are pretty much anti anything other than MD. You know, plenty of people on this site look down their noses at DOs and probably even podiatrists. Truth be told, I'd be very selective about what I'd see a NP about.

DNP is the biggest farse to hit academia. I can't for the life of me understand why it doesn't follow a PA doctoral model or that of the "professional PharmD" made for those old practicing pharmacists with a B.S., RPh.

I'm so anti DNP I've considered taking a published editorial approach to chastising it. As I understand it, the DNP did not "materialize" in the manner intended.

When I entered nursing, I really expected something...more.
 
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I think we misread each other. I was really only referring to the med student kids who are pretty much anti anything other than MD. You know, plenty of people on this site look down their noses at DOs and probably even podiatrists. Truth be told, I'd be very selective about what I'd see a NP about.

DNP is the biggest farse to hit academia. I can't for the life of me understand why it doesn't follow a PA doctoral model or that of the "professional PharmD" made for those old practicing pharmacists with a B.S., RPh.

I'm so anti DNP I've considered taking a published editorial approach to chastising it. As I understand it, the DNP did not "materialize" in the manner intended.

When I entered nursing, I really expected something...more.

Go to allnurses. The posters on this site are intentionally offensives. The "moderator" is one of the most offensive of them all.

The DNP is very useful in an administrative position that gives RNs a seat at the table of decisions made about their own profession. The DNP is not clinically based, it's its own animal.
 
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Go to allnurses. The posters on this site are intentionally offensives. The "moderator" is one of the most offensive of them all.

The DNP is very useful in an administrative position that gives RNs a seat at the table of decisions made about their own profession. The DNP is not clinically based, it's its own animal.
I've been banned from Allnurses for "divisive" language (anti-nursing establishment) and telling the administrators to kiss my ****.
 
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DNP is the biggest farse to hit academia. I can't for the life of me understand why it doesn't follow a PA doctoral model or that of the "professional PharmD" made for those old practicing pharmacists with a B.S., RPh.

If they did that (Mirrored the DNP after PA programs and turned it into an actual clinical doctorate) they would put the PA profession out off business. Bad for PAs, but that would be good for patient's.

I've been banned from Allnurses for "divisive" language (anti-nursing establishment) and telling the administrators to kiss my ****.

Allnurses is where you WILL only find one-sided information. Anyone with a different opinion than the militant Nursing Mafia is banned.
 
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I've been banned from Allnurses for "divisive" language (anti-nursing establishment) and telling the administrators to kiss my ****.

Your posts were some of the only worthwhile ones on there. You were targeted due to your political leanings and blunt truths. They made the rest fit into the result they wanted. Its their loss. I only tune in there to sift through to find the successful NPs to glean what I can from them, not the ones with ideological axes to grind.
 
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I think you'll find a faction of us calling for an overhaul of NP education. I beat that drum on Allnurses under the similar name Psych Guy. It is what it is, unfortunately. I really think the highest quality outcome we could see in healthcare is restriction of FMGs.

I truly don't think the quality of "midlevel" practice is at the heart of the anti midlevel rhetoric, yet it provides a less jaded forum for Inquisition. My opinion is that it all boils down to defensive posturing and each of our own needs to have a sense of purpose and accomplishment along with economics. If I make 200k on a 30k investment, why would I invest 200k to make 250k - more consumed resources and greater opportunity cost with a largely identical role in the office.

If I were 18 again, I'd pursue premed...back when I was 18. If I were 18 today, I'd pursue something not dependent on satisfaction and third party regulation. At 18, I had no idea what to do, at 21 I had a BS and was cum laude. I taught high school biology and chemistry for a year and then spontaneously decided to become a police officer which I did for years. In all sincerity, my dream career is with the National Clandestine Service, but my youthful self-defeatist attitude prevented me from doing anything competitive. The fact that I'm in mental health, do well at it, and enjoy it is quite unexpected and somewhat paradoxical to my personality.
FMGs actually have outcomes that are similar to (and in many cases better than) US MDs per the only study I've seen on the issue. They also serve rural communities far more often than US MDs because of J1 visa requirements, and essentially form the backbone of many rural hospitals' physician workforces. They train in the same residencies, complete the same exams, and are held to the same standard as US MDs (and truly, residency makes the physician more than anything else). Given that you're in psych, I can see why you might have a negative bias- psych tends to be a backup field for FMGs, and the cultural barriers often lead to practice that is different, particularly in regard to therapy, than their US MD counterparts.

But that's just a tangent. Carry on.
 
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If they did that (Mirrored the DNP after PA programs and turned it into an actual clinical doctorate) they would put the PA profession out off business. Bad for PAs, but that would be good for patient's.



Allnurses is where you WILL only find one-sided information. Anyone with a different opinion than the militant Nursing Mafia is banned.
I honestly wish NPs had higher standards- I truly have no fear of competition, but I do fear my country being swamped with underqualified clinicians. There are great NP programs out there, and there are terrible ones. It really gets under my skin to know that someone from an online school that arranged their own rotations has the same scope of practice as someone from one of the better schools that has strong clinical rotations and twice as many hours under their belt.
 
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I honestly wish NPs had higher standards- I truly have no fear of competition, but I do fear my country being swamped with underqualified clinicians. There are great NP programs out there, and there are terrible ones. It really gets under my skin to know that someone from an online school that arranged their own rotations has the same scope of practice as someone from one of the better schools that has strong clinical rotations and twice as many hours under their belt.
It's unfair that our system put these people on equal footing with PA when it comes to hiring practice...
 
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It's unfair that our system put these people on equal footing with PA when it comes to hiring practice...
Don't fret. Your charm and leadership will rocket your trajectory.
 
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BSN to NP while working as a nurse.
If you MUST go straight into graduate education, then this option is the most ideal because the education you gain as a bedside/direct care nurse will benefit you.

However, you also state you're interested in advanced practice, going the PA route would also work and you'd get more clinical hours in training.

Entirely up to you.
 
I graduated with my BSN and immediately went on for my FNP. If you decide on this route, my advice is to make sure that while you are in your Masters program that you work as an RN as you do not want to graduate as a new NP without any RN experience or NP experience. I was lucky in that I worked as a hospital RN throughout my full time Masters program. I did have to drive 80 miles each way but it was the only hospital that would work with my class schedule and clinical NP rotations. In the end, I graduated and was hired as an NP once I was licensed. I don't think this would have happened if I did not have the RN experience from working full-time during my Masters program or the strong NP clinical rotations. Good Luck as it will not be easy.
 
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I'm not of the "RN work is necessary mentality." I was hired into my job and never once spoke about what I did as a RN. I'm not even sure "they" knew NPs have to be RNs.
 
I'm not of the "RN work is necessary mentality." I was hired into my job and never once spoke about what I did as a RN. I'm not even sure "they" knew NPs have to be RNs.

It absolutely is necessary. Personally, I think all ARNP schools should become more standardized. I think one of the points of standardization should be a minimum years of RN experience requirement (at least 2 years of acute care experience); a BSN (or BS in related science degree [i.e., chemistry, biology, health sciences, etc. + RN license); and no online didactics...You talked about reforming education for ARNPs. This would be a start since we are not entirely medically focused.
 
The ANA is more interested in flooding the market with wannabe doctors...

I really doubt thats what they are trying to do. However, I think standards need to go up. What I just said in the reply to psych NP guy would def. be a good start. NP program design is meant for the experienced RN to expand their practice in which ever area they are working in. But now that we have a bunch of students just going straight through and with no bedside nursing experience, then standards absolutely need to be raised to ensure quality control.
 
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To answer the original post, I would say first off that you are on the WRONG site posting a question like this LMAO. You want advice, go to allnurses.com. I come on this website to help enlighten medical students and physicians of our profession and to debate issues. But since I'm addressing you, I would recommend that you have bedside (acute care) RN experience before practicing as an ARNP. So working while in school is fine. I would do it in a step wise fashion (BSN-->MSN-->DNP) rather than bridge path because I've seen too many people quit during their bridge programs and end up with nothing (also I would recommend that you choose a good, reputable, accredited program with NO online didactics). Keep in mind that once you start a bridge program, it's very difficult to get the school (a good one) to give you a MSN and not finish with your DNP if you choose to do so. Regarding your other question about adult certification, I would ask why you would short change yourself? If your going to go the ARNP route then just get a FNP degree and nothing less. This gives you the most "bang for you buck" and you will be able to switch specialties much more seamlessly with this certification. Finally, I would caution you about going into this profession all together. Just beware that you're going to encounter quite a bit of resistance, animosity, and criticism from physicians, some patients, other HCPs, etc. because they are not to familiar with what we do. Realize that you are not "like a doctor" but a "first rate nurse". Don't ever pretend to be anything different and you'll be successful.
 
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It absolutely is necessary. Personally, I think all ARNP schools should become more standardized. I think one of the points of standardization should be a minimum years of RN experience requirement (at least 2 years of acute care experience); a BSN (or BS in related science degree [i.e., chemistry, biology, health sciences, etc. + RN license); and no online didactics...You talked about reforming education for ARNPs. This would be a start since we are not entirely medically focused.

So how is nursing and nurse indoctrination going to make NPs more independently oriented toward medicine.

I've actually found those who have been RNs the longest before making the switch to be more passive regarding treatment with the use of numerous consults, referrals, and subtherapeutic drug regimens. These typically don't subscribe to any journals or other literature either, in my experience of course.

It's not the clinician's fault either. They're dealing with a discrepancy in roles (a sort of confirmation bias) charged with independently managing an illness with 10,000+ hours of experience and mindset of "operate with assured safety at the discretion of a physician or counterpart with their sage guidance."
 
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So how is nursing and nurse indoctrination going to make NPs more independently oriented toward medicine.

I've actually found those who have been RNs the longest before making the switch to be more passive regarding treatment with the use of numerous consults, referrals, and subtherapeutic drug regimens. These typically don't subscribe to any journals or other literature either, in my experience of course.

It's not the clinician's fault either. They're dealing with a discrepancy in roles (a sort of confirmation bias) charged with independently managing an illness with 10,000+ hours of experience and mindset of "operate with assured safety at the discretion of a physician or counterpart with their sage guidance."

If you want to be more "independently oriented towards medicine" then why didn't you just go to medical or PA school? Nursing is a multidisciplinary science and is its own profession. It has it's own theories and science to orient independent clinical practice. Experience as an RN is a large part of that just like experience in the ICU as an RN is a large part of CRNA practice or like how OBGYN RN experience is a large part of becoming a certified nurse midwife...And what your describing is ridiculous. Not subscribing to journals or keeping up with evidence based practice is a problem with the clinician individually, not the fact that that person has RN experience. And regarding your multiple referrals point, maybe you perceive them as making numerous consults because you're unsafe as a clinician and think you know too much..

Experience as an RN is so important because that is where we hone our assessment and communication skills. We get exposure to hundreds of pathologies and the treatment of those illnesses. RNs become experts on the implementation side of medical and nursing care making the transition to becoming the decision maker infinitely more comfortable and seamless. Even as a PMHNP, having that exposure as an RN in clinical settings makes for a more keene ability to identify organic causes of altered mental states...

What people like you represent is the problem with our profession today. By advocating for no RN experience, whether you realize it or not, sets the bar lower and makes for a more watered down clinician. All I'm saying is that people at least need 2-3 years of RN experience, ideally in the respective area they will be working in as an NP. Thankfully most NPs do have years of RN experience which is the cornerstone of our quality as providers. I also don't advocate for programs with all online didactics or fast track programs...These factors make all the difference in the world, and make for a much better clinician and keeps our standards high.

Physicians and employers are becoming aware of the lowering standards in the NP profession and so for the prospective NP that has no RN experience and/or does some online program, you will have a hard time finding good and competitive employment as the market becomes inundated with less experienced providers. No matter, it's no skin off my back. When a employer looks at my resume vs. some NP who took the easier path, then I will win out every time.

Case and point, If you choose to be an NP then you better be okay with being an RN as well.. otherwise go to medical or PA school.
 
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To both of your points, a NP who is risk adverse and seeks consults is, in my opinion, more competent than their cowboy counter parts. These NP's know what they don't know and want the best for the patient. I have found the NP's that consult often are highly knowledgeable in their areas, up to date on the journals, and have seen how often things go wrong.

I'm interested in hearing why you are finding such a high correlation between incompetence and consultation, because that's not what I am seeing.

Also to the writer, if you have no interest in nursing, don't be a nurse. You need to want to be a nurse to be successfull in nursing school. While the program is not as difficult as PA, it's also not easy. Either choose a different profession, or find a reason to enjoy nursing before your in a chair starting your first lecture.
 
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To both of your points, a NP who is risk adverse and seeks consults is, in my opinion, more competent than their cowboy counter parts. These NP's know what they don't know and want the best for the patient. I have found the NP's that consult often are highly knowledgeable in their areas, up to date on the journals, and have seen how often things go wrong.

I'm interested in hearing why you are finding such a high correlation between incompetence and consultation, because that's not what I am seeing.

Also to the writer, if you have no interest in nursing, don't be a nurse. You need to want to be a nurse to be successfull in nursing school. While the program is not as difficult as PA, it's also not easy. Either choose a different profession, or find a reason to enjoy nursing before your in a chair starting your first lecture.

Exactly. I agree with everything you said with the exception of the path to becoming an NP (traditional route) being easier than the path to becoming a PA. I often recommend to people to go the PA route if they dont like nursing because it is quicker (though intense) and permits more variation in experience prior to entry. Of course there are exceptions for both programs because now, sadly, some NP programs don't require experience, just like some PA programs are now going to online didactics and some are not graduate level training.

But thankfully most NPs have tons of RN experience and most PAs that I know are excellent, even if they were just a phlebotomist prior to becoming a PA.
 
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No one, not a physician nor any other person, "knows what they don't know." That mantra so ubiquitous to SDN is ridiculous. However, a reasonable person approaches any problem with some degree of skepticism before jumping wildly in with an answer. If one lacks that pragmatism, one need not be any type of clinician or go outside their house on any recurring basis for risk of getting lost at their mailbox.

I don't think a lack of referrals makes one a "cowboy," and I also don't think one is a better NP by merely being a RN in some employment capacity. Honing "communication skills" isn't a facet solely of nursing. I'm not sure what fantasy world your idealized nurse is given with time to sit and communicate with their clientele for any lengthy period.

The two roles are so markedly contrasting, I fully believe this necessity dogma in being a nurse first is solely a hold over and absence in forward thinking.

I'll make over $200,000 this year in a solo outpatient environment with little meaningful nursing experience. Perhaps I'm an outlier, but the example is set that nursing experience is unnecessary. By all of our metrics, my productivity is outstanding and my quality of care is great. Yours can be too!
 
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The longer I'm in nursing, the more I see things as psyche NP guy does as far as experience. I bought into the hype for a little bit and hit the floor to get experience. I don't regret it, but I'm also grateful I didn't settle down for very long before moving towards the next stage. I certainly didn't need 2 years experience as a nurse to hone a special insight that qualified me for NP school. I wish I had chased NP school as soon as I possibly could have after obtaining my RN.

My own personal view is that there is a golden amount of time where RN experience can be helpful, and it seems to be a small window. I haven't been a nurse as long as many of my peers in my NP school or NP students at work, but I've worked a lot of different departments, and I'm always surprised at how much of a difference that perspective provides me compared to folks that stayed put for a long time and only saw a certain type of patient day in and day out. It affects their confidence down the line as well when they are out of familiar territory even briefly. In their narrow comfort zone, folks like that are very sharp. Outside of it they can really struggle. Often, "not knowing what you don't know" is best used to describe folks that have a lot of experience in a niche and think it carries over to other realms. I'm thinking of the ICU or ED nurses who are useless on other floors. ive had an easier time moving newer medical nurses to other units in the midst of a staffing pinch than some of the seasoned ICU cowboys who only work with 2 patients at a time, then are told they now have 6.

I'm a newer nurse with plenty of other healthcare experience, competent, but rarely accused of being a rockstar RN in any particular realm. But they can drop me in anywhere in any role and I can hold my own for as long as they need. I'd choose to be where I am vs having tons of focused experience.
 
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Just because your earning capacity is high and you hit high scores on your quality measures does not make you a good clinician. Maybe you are good, I don't know, but I just have to disagree with you and pamac. I also just don't feel like you should be feeding people that nonsense either or you get new nurses like pamac who are under qualified and unaware of how to pick up on subtleties in an assessment that is really only learned as a nurse while on the floor.
 
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The longer I'm in nursing, the more I see things as psyche NP guy does as far as experience. I bought into the hype for a little bit and hit the floor to get experience. I don't regret it, but I'm also grateful I didn't settle down for very long before moving towards the next stage. I certainly didn't need 2 years experience as a nurse to hone a special insight that qualified me for NP school. I wish I had chased NP school as soon as I possibly could have after obtaining my RN.

My own personal view is that there is a golden amount of time where RN experience can be helpful, and it seems to be a small window. I haven't been a nurse as long as many of my peers in my NP school or NP students at work, but I've worked a lot of different departments, and I'm always surprised at how much of a difference that perspective provides me compared to folks that stayed put for a long time and only saw a certain type of patient day in and day out. It affects their confidence down the line as well when they are out of familiar territory even briefly. In their narrow comfort zone, folks like that are very sharp. Outside of it they can really struggle. Often, "not knowing what you don't know" is best used to describe folks that have a lot of experience in a niche and think it carries over to other realms. I'm thinking of the ICU or ED nurses who are useless on other floors. ive had an easier time moving newer medical nurses to other units in the midst of a staffing pinch than some of the seasoned ICU cowboys who only work with 2 patients at a time, then are told they now have 6.

I'm a newer nurse with plenty of other healthcare experience, competent, but rarely accused of being a rockstar RN in any particular realm. But they can drop me in anywhere in any role and I can hold my own for as long as they need. I'd choose to be where I am vs having tons of focused experience.

Disagree. You and your classmates actually lower the standards of our profession and you lowered the standards for your self too. You should have got experience...I dont know why you and psych np guy keep drawing this false correlation of nurses with lots of experience vs ones that don't have experience are somehow better clinicians. Its false information. If I had the choice between an NP with no experience versus a PA with no experience, I would go with the PA every time. But an experienced NP, I would choose that person every time...if I was hiring ofcourse.
 
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Disagree. You and your classmates actually lower the standards of our profession and you lowered the standards for your self too. You should have got experience...I dont know why you and psych np guy keep drawing this false correlation of nurses with lots of experience vs ones that don't have experience are somehow better clinicians. Its false information. If I had the choice between an NP with no experience versus a PA with no experience, I would go with the PA every time. But an experienced NP, I would choose that person every time...if I was hiring ofcourse.

This is correct. The view experience doesn't matter is dangerous. It's taking our professions strenth and making it our weakness. It's one of the problems with our current educational process.

Knowing when that hypercapnic COPD patient has finally bought themselves a tube is as much about wisdom as about knowledge. I wouldn't want a nurse without significant fund of wisdom and bedside experience making that call.
 
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Disagree. You and your classmates actually lower the standards of our profession and you lowered the standards for your self too. You should have got experience...I dont know why you and psych np guy keep drawing this false correlation of nurses with lots of experience vs ones that don't have experience are somehow better clinicians. Its false information. If I had the choice between an NP with no experience versus a PA with no experience, I would go with the PA every time. But an experienced NP, I would choose that person every time...if I was hiring ofcourse.

Admittedly, I'm a bit different than the typical RN. I've been a nurse for just under 5 years, so I'm not a noob. I also have a biology degree, and a medical laboratory science degree and experience there as well. I have all the premed coursework, as well as having took heavy sciences as my electives even though they weren't required for my major. I've taken the DAT and did well, especially in the bio sciences section where I scored above the 98th percentile among all the extremely intelligent folks sitting for that exam. I also have all the coursework in my background to be able to sit for the MCAT (which I have yet to meet a nurse or an NP personally that could do that). I'm attending a top ranked NP school with brick and mortar and a great reputation where I'm NOT at all challenged, and am blown away that my pathophysiology coursework were the weakest pathophysiology coursework I've ever taken (took it as an undergrad, and again at a different institution to refresh before I applied to nursing school). My 4.0 comes with minimal effort. I've met experienced nurse practitioners with plenty of RN experience that didn't have basic understanding of biological principles, and that's happened on enough occasions that it terrifies me. They are also overconfident in areas that only slightly correlated to their RN experience. If there is anything lowering the standards for the NP profession, it's the rigor of NP education...hands down. It is subpar, and that was before all of the lower quality NP programs emerged (which I'm noticing that my experienced RN peers seem to be attending quite frequently due to personal convenience). One might assert that my background was good for PA and not NP, but I didn't throw that out there to impress, but to show that I have enough education to know the value of it, and nursing education leaves a lot to be desired by comparison. I'm not confident that nursing experience is enough to overcome what they lack in a standardized fashion for all experienced RNs.

No... It's not the noobs hurting the profession and lowering the standards.... It's the NP education establishment. And it not only fails the folks without much experience (that I know the profession was not built around) but also the experienced RNs. They just don't know the science behind a lot of what they are doing unless they went out on their own and sought it out.

Assessment skills are skills. They teach them to PAs and they go out and do very well. RNs in the right environment perform them enough to catch on fairly quick, and they can become very adept at the ones associated with the limited RN role. Some things get better with age, other things just get faster.

I feel for the NPs that don't have a background like mine because they often have bare bones basic science knowledge to draw from. I've had very experienced NP professors with only a passing knowledge of the scientific principles they are touching on. NP school has turned into instruction on how to be a "self learner" and how to "look up the latest research when you hit a wall". I think experience is helpful, but I'm just not feeling the notion that spinning wheels for years as an RN is the be all end all threshold that will improve the profession. At this point, we spend more time out of the room doing intricate documentation than we do assessing our patients anyway. Are you saying that contributes a lot to the RB to NP experience as well?
 
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Admittedly, I'm a bit different than the typical RN. I've been a nurse for just under 5 years, so I'm not a noob. I also have a biology degree, and a medical laboratory science degree and experience there as well. I have all the premed coursework, as well as having took heavy sciences as my electives even though they weren't required for my major. I've taken the DAT and did well, especially in the bio sciences section where I scored above the 98th percentile among all the extremely intelligent folks sitting for that exam. I also have all the coursework in my background to be able to sit for the MCAT (which I have yet to meet a nurse or an NP personally that could do that). I'm attending a top ranked NP school with brick and mortar and a great reputation where I'm NOT at all challenged, and am blown away that my pathophysiology coursework were the weakest pathophysiology coursework I've ever taken (took it as an undergrad, and again at a different institution to refresh before I applied to nursing school). My 4.0 comes with minimal effort. I've met experienced nurse practitioners with plenty of RN experience that didn't have basic understanding of biological principles, and that's happened on enough occasions that it terrifies me. They are also overconfident in areas that only slightly correlated to their RN experience. If there is anything lowering the standards for the NP profession, it's the rigor of NP education...hands down. It is subpar, and that was before all of the lower quality NP programs emerged (which I'm noticing that my experienced RN peers seem to be attending quite frequently due to personal convenience).

No... It's not the noobs hurting the profession and lowering the standards.... It's the NP education establishment. And it not only fails the folks without much experience (that I know the profession was not built around) but also the experienced RNs. They just don't know the science behind a lot of what they are doing unless they went out on their own and sought it out.

Assessment skills are skills. They teach them to PAs and they go out and do very well. RNs in the right environment perform them enough to catch on fairly quick, and they can become very adept at the ones associated with the limited RN role. Some things get better with age, other things just get faster.

I feel for the NPs that don't have a background like mine because they often have bare bones basic science knowledge to draw from. I've had very experienced NP professors with only a passing knowledge of the scientific principles they are touching on. NP school has turned into instruction on how to be a "self learner" and how to "look up the latest research when you hit a wall". I think experience is helpful, but I'm just not feeling the notion that spinning wheels for years as an RN is the be all end all threshold that will improve the profession. At this point, we spend more time out of the room doing intricate documentation than we do assessing our patients anyway. Are you saying that contributes a lot to the RB to NP experience as well.
What are you doing on SDN?!! You should be out there curing cancer by now!
 
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