African American DO v MD

[BestoFriedo-Todo]

So I'm in a position, where I will be choosing between MD or DO.

I am interested in DO, cause I want to learn OMM. However, I'm African American.
And in the back of my head I feel like there will always be someone thinking

"OH, he is a black Osteopath. I guess he wasn't good enough to get into an MD school."

I don't want to give anyone any reason to discriminate or think less of me during my medical career. So I'm kind of leaning toward MD, cause those letters behind my name of globally known and respected. No one will see MD and question or think less of it. My brain tells me to go MD to cast out any chance of someone looking down on me as a MD.

However, in my soon to be M1 heart, I want to be a DO, cause I want that OMM skill set.


Am I just paranoid about the DO discrimination being more prevalent as an African American? Anyone else in a similar situation who can speak on this?

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[JPmoleymole]

Just go MD and take a OMM elective

 

[SpoiledMilk]

If you heart is set on DO, then go DO.

But there are numerous threads on SDN about MD vs. DO and overwhelmingly, the consensus is that MD will open up more opportunities. If you want the OMM skills, I am sure that after getting your MD, you can take an OMM certification course. Do a search for MD vs DO threads...

While discrimination is a reality in everyday life, don't let it define your career goals. Do what you think will make you the happiest...

 

[FlavivirusProtease]

"OH, he is a black Osteopath. I guess he wasn't good enough to get into an MD school."

Who cares what other people think. If you want to be a DO you should do what you want and be confident in your abilities and choices. 99% of people outside healthcare don't even know that MDs and DOs are different things. Look around at the different threads and you'll see that inside healthcare nobody brags about MD being better than DO. The only people who talk **** about MDs and DOs are Premeds and Med Students, and honestly, who cares what they think?

I'm not saying that you won't have better opportunities presented to you if you go MD because you will definitely have better opportunities in front of you. However, if you believe that DO is the route for you, go for it and don't let anyone's opinions tell you otherwise.

Another note: I think it's like 90% of DO graduates never actually use OMM after graduating. I know a lot of people in DO school and most tell me almost everyone thinks it's bull, so make sure you factor that in too. I just want to make sure you aren't romanticizing it.

 

[21Rush12]

Warning: opinion ahead.

OMM’s usefulness is far less important than the availability of more opportunities to you as an MD. Nonsense or not (it’s literally based on pseudoscience), OMM is something you can learn independently if you’re interested and not worth handicapping yourself for.

 

[SuaveCardigans]

Do you have experience OMM? I ask because unless you do, I dont believe your interest in it should outweigh advantages of MD. If you do though, and sincerely want to use it, then I do think this is a legit question that we could probably advise best if you share the specific schools.

Regardless, eff the haters and base your decision on what you want, not what youre worried about other people thinking.

 

[500miles]

Do you know what specialty you want to go into? I guess it just depends how much OMM means to you. You may have better options going the MD route, which given the option is what I'd do. But I would follow your heart. If you really love OMM and the DO philosophy, it makes sense to go there! I can't speak much to discrimination except for the overall petty nature of the whole DO vs MD stuff that comes up mainly on sdn.

 

[DokterMom]

Warning: opinion ahead.

OMM’s usefulness is far less important than the availability of more opportunities to you as an MD. Nonsense or not (it’s literally based on pseudoscience), OMM is something you can learn independently if you’re interested and not worth handicapping yourself for.

This -- As you know, discrimination is real, and in the early years of a medical career, discrimination against DOs is real. If your desire is genuinely to learn the OMM skill set in addition to conventional medicine, you will be able to find someone who is more than happy to teach it to you as an MD without sacrificing the opportunities that come along with a USMD degree. Get the MD to maximize your opportunities and head off the potential stigma which you correctly intuit would probably be there.

 

[QPOC1231]

I feel like if your only reason for going DO is to learn OMM it'd be better to just go MD and learn OMM on the side as @JPmoleymole said. More opportunities. "Less" potential judgment from colleagues and patients. Although most people out of healthcare don't know the difference between MD and DO all it takes is a google search to find out. I don't think you're paranoid. I had similar concerns as yours which was why I ended up not applying to DO schools.

 

[deleted480308]

Go MD

The reason people would look at you as a black DO and think you might not have had the numbers for MD is because of the DO, not your skin color

 

[BigBoss]

OMM is a pseudoscience.


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[Cryc_to_the_point]

I'm a DO student. Go MD.

I'm very happy to be in medical school and I'm happy to get to pursue my dream as a DO, but the nonsense, biases, and lack of professional recognition far outweigh the sometimes useful but often overblown techniques of OMM.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You don’t want to learn OMM. Go MD.

Source: DO student

 

[Welshman]

"OH, he is a black Osteopath. I guess he wasn't good enough to get into an MD school."

Anyone who cares to think like that will assume any DO wasn't good enough for to get into an MD school.... Furthermore, anyone who cares to think like that will also probably thinks that a URM has a much easier time getting into an MD school.... So if you're trying to avoid the thoughts of people who think like that you know the answer

Also, just go MD

 

[BestoFriedo-Todo]

WHAT if i've already payed the $2000 security deposit at DO school and got my MD acceptance afterwards? Still go MD?

 

[Goro]

WHAT if i've already payed the $2000 security deposit at DO school and got my MD acceptance afterwards? Still go MD?

The Sunk Cost Fallacy

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

WHAT if i've already payed the $2000 security deposit at DO school and got my MD acceptance afterwards? Still go MD?

Yes.

 

[Ad2b]

The Sunk Cost Fallacy

comparing Farmville to WoW one you can play at will on your iphone, ipad, android, FallacyBook account; the other requires a computer with enough RAM, great graphics card and $15/month plus solid/great dexterity and ability to maneuver mouse, keyboard strokes, create macros... all if you want to play at end game ... sorry, lost me at that.

~ 965 RSham on PVP server (For The Alliance)
~ 955 RDruid on same PVP server (Horde Suck, For The Alliance)
AOTC Argus

Back to OP:

Just go MD and be done with it. $$$ is not everything, life is short - be happy.

 

[FlavivirusProtease]

WHAT if i've already payed the $2000 security deposit at DO school and got my MD acceptance afterwards? Still go MD?

I know someone who had completed their first year-ish at DO school and then went MD.

So a $2000 deposit is pretty small compared to $74,000 CoA and an extra year.

Edit: Let me clarify. They applied MD on the cycle during the summer before and their first year at DO school, got accepted, dropped out of the DO school after the first semester, and then moved to the MD school the following year.

 

[BestoFriedo-Todo]

The Sunk Cost Fallacy

Is it a lost investment? It seems to be set in stone that DO will have less opportunities than MDs, but with the residency merger right around the corner that could potentially change.

 

[Lawpy]

Is it a lost investment? It seems to be set in stone that DO will have less opportunities than MDs, but with the residency merger right around the corner that could potentially change.

MD is still a better option

 

[BestoFriedo-Todo]

I know someone who had completed their first year at DO school and then went MD.

So a $2000 deposit is pretty small compared to $74,000 CoA and an extra year.

Like he dropped out from a DO program and repeated first year at a MD school?

 

[Welshman]

Is it a lost investment? It seems to be set in stone that DO will have less opportunities than MDs, but with the residency merger right around the corner that could potentially change.

Oh wow, I'm sure none of the people on this thread considered that....

If you've read anything about the merger on this forum you would know the answer

 

[BestoFriedo-Todo]

Oh wow, I'm sure none of the people on this thread considered that....

If you've read anything about the merger on this forum you would know the answer

Thx for the sarcasm.
Any threads you recommend?

 

[Welshman]

Thx for the sarcasm.
Any threads you recommend?

No, but I can recommend the search bar

 

[Medic741]

Unless that MD program is in Puerto Rico, or in the Carribean you should 100% go MD.

>OMS-1 student

 

[MareNostrummm]

I know someone who had completed their first year-ish at DO school and then went MD.

So a $2000 deposit is pretty small compared to $74,000 CoA and an extra year.

Edit: Let me clarify. They applied MD on the cycle during the summer before and their first year at DO school, got accepted, dropped out of the DO school after the first semester, and then moved to the MD school the following year.

They wanted the MD that badly lol.

 

[BestoFriedo-Todo]

No, but I can recommend the search bar

Nice to know my problems are so easily fix.
However, yours is going to take some time.

 

[siliso]

2k is nothing in the long run. It’s a drop in the ocean. Take the US MD.

 

[BestoFriedo-Todo]

Seems to a be a lot of DO students here, saying go MD. What were your reasons for sticking with DO?

 

[BigBoss]

There is no reason to do DO if you have an MD acceptance. People only do DO if they don’t have any MD acceptances.


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[Cryc_to_the_point]

Seems to a be a lot of DO students here, saying go MD. What were your reasons for sticking with DO?

I got accepted to a DO program with ties to a handful of locations I want to do residencies at and I got no MD acceptance on this side of the continent. After all the BS, I'll be the same physician anyway, so I figured why not?

 

[BestoFriedo-Todo]

This has been helpful. Thanks.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Seems to a be a lot of DO students here, saying go MD. What were your reasons for sticking with DO?

I didn't want to spend 40k on an SMP and got into one of the few DO schools that is set up very similar to MD schools. If I was single I would have done the SMP but I have a wife and kids so 40k simply on a chance didn't make sense to me.

 

[Medic741]

Seems to a be a lot of DO students here, saying go MD. What were your reasons for sticking with DO?

I was unaware how different the quality of clinical education would be WRT COCA standards vs. ACGME...

COCA's requirements for a rotation site = is there a willing preceptor?
ACGME's requirement is that there is a residency program at your clinical site. The presence of a residency program suggests a hospital is set up to teach.

What's funny is that FMG accreditation requires for student rotations to be at residency program sites, but COCA (stateside) doesn't, and yet everyone trashes on FMG, relating that FMG >>>>>> DO. I dunno.

OMM is great, whenever I've had a back injury from running, lifting / whatever a 15 minute OMM session from another student usually gets me >85% pain reduction pretty consistently. There's a lot of ridiculous 'treatments' that we learn, but I feel that I've learned enough of value in OMM to be confident that it'll be of significant use in my future career (aiming for deployments w/ Army).

The upshot is that you will get a measurably worse clinical education. I have so far received far better clinical training at a community paramedic program I attended before DO school. Paid $5,500 for a full year for the community paramedic program and was taught *every single skill* to a much higher level than I have been in a terminal degree program. Which is frustrating to say the least.

*CAVEAT* is that the students in my program are brilliant. We all work really hard, have great access to research and being a DO won't limit my career ambitions. If you're thinking of military medicine, have heard from multiple sources that ~50% of milmed docs are DO so it's the most advangageous place to be starting out a career as a DO.

Why I ended up at DO...
I ended up at a DO program d/t negligently poor advising at my undergraduate. Like really, really terrible. Advice included "You should apply to St. George's, it's a great MD program that's just as good as US MD programs"
"You don't really need a committee letter" and, my favorite
"applying in September isn't late at all, in fact you're getting your app in way before the deadlines" etc.

Super salty about that. So... ended up in a DO school with solid stats and great EC, great LOR because I just had absolutely terrible advice. By the time the app cycle was over I just didn't have the $$$ to do it all over again. That's why I pop into this site periodically, I would give anything to be able to do this all over again and want to help others make good decisions with all the information.

I encourage you to call the DO and MD school and ask:
>"How will I receive my clinical skills training? What are the group sizes that I will be taught in? Who will be teaching us?" This matters quite a lot.

Things that I now realize don't really matter...
>Access to professors, you don't really need access to them, just read the book
>Sim lab resources, you just don't spend a lot of time using them
>

 

[NoMD4Me]

I'm going to be honest, from one URM to another: there are some awful people out there who will look down upon you whether you're DO or MD. They will think that the only reason you got into medical school is because of your race. Some of them will even be your classmates. Go for the MD.

 

[DrDude2004]

The typical person (with few exceptions) that ends up at DO programs has either lower GPA or lower MCAT. With the merger if you have some kind of interest in OMM you could always apply for ACGME residencies with osteopathic recognition and learn the futility of OMM. Take a look at match data and compare between 2017 and 2018. The numbers are mindblowing and it is going to get worse in the next few years with the explosion of new DO programs. Make your life easier and take the MD acceptance.

 

[Medic741]

The typical person (with few exceptions) that ends up at DO programs has either lower GPA or lower MCAT. With the merger if you have some kind of interest in OMM you could always apply for ACGME residencies with osteopathic recognition and learn the futility of OMM. Take a look at match data and compare between 2017 and 2018. The numbers are mindblowing and it is going to get worse in the next few years with the explosion of new DO programs. Make your life easier and take the MD acceptance.

Lot of great advice on this thread

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

COCA's requirements for a rotation site = is there a willing preceptor?
ACGME's requirement is that there is a residency program at your clinical site. The presence of a residency program suggests a hospital is set up to teach.

This is 100% false.... go read the clerkship requirements for both LCME and COCA. It's a common misconception but they are the exact same. There is only the requirement (LCME) that students have ONE core rotation with a residency program.

ACGME has nothing to do with medical student rotations.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I encourage you to call the DO and MD school and ask:
>"How will I receive my clinical skills training? What are the group sizes that I will be taught in? Who will be teaching us?" This matters quite a lot.

Things that I now realize don't really matter...
>Access to professors, you don't really need access to them, just read the book
>Sim lab resources, you just don't spend a lot of time using them

Agree with this x1000. If I were to go back and interview again I would ask completely different questions than I did the first time. Basically everything they show you or tell you on interview day is worthless.

 

[Doc93]

Go MD. Racism is so engrained in America that people will think less of you because of your skin regardless of your degree. Just read about the experiences that other black physicians have had. That's just the reality and one I will face too as a black woman in medicine. With an MD you will have more options and can still take an elective to study OMM. Don't limit yourself when you have this opportunity.

 

[SuperMD17]

I'm going to be honest, from one URM to another: there are some awful people out there who will look down upon you whether you're DO or MD. They will think that the only reason you got into medical school is because of your race. Some of them will even be your classmates. Go for the MD.

Omggg same thing I say I totally agree!

 

[Leopold23]

I'm going to be honest, from one URM to another: there are some awful people out there who will look down upon you whether you're DO or MD. They will think that the only reason you got into medical school is because of your race. Some of them will even be your classmates. Go for the MD.

Indeed. For me it started at interviews. One fellow interviewee insinuated that the only reason I was there was because I’m black...And I know it probably won’t stop there.

Give yourself the best option by busting down as many doors as you can. And give no f**** to the haters

 

[878956]

Go MD. Racism is so engrained in America that people will think less of you because of your skin regardless of your degree. Just read about the experiences that other black physicians have had. That's just the reality and one I will face too as a black woman in medicine. With an MD you will have more options and can still take an elective to study OMM. Don't limit yourself when you have this opportunity.

Honestly, as another African American male, I will tell you that DO will be just another stigma you will have to endure as a black doctor. If you have the choice, go MD.

 

[Doc93]

Indeed. For me it started at interviews. One fellow interviewee insinuated that the only reason I was there was because I’m black...And I know it probably won’t stop there.

Give yourself the best option by busting down as many doors as you can. And give no f**** to the haters

Even before interviews! Just look at all the posts on SDN of people whining that black applicants get in without even trying. It's so frustrating.

 

[SuperMD17]

Even before interviews! Just look at all the posts on SDN of people whining that black applicants get in without even trying. It's so frustrating.

Yep! I literally tried to encourage someone on a “what are my chances” post. When the bitter folks got a whiff of my URM status I was told that I was “humble bragging” it caused a real stir. So pathetic, these bitter people

 

[Doc93]

Yep! I literally tried to encourage someone on a “what are my chances” post. When the bitter folks got a whiff of my URM status I was told that I was “humble bragging” it caused a real stir. So pathetic, these bitter people

It's crazy! This attitude is why medicine continues to have racial bias that hurts minoroties even more. I've noticed that It's more bitter now that people are sitting on waitlists and are mad at all the brown people who got in. You can be racist all you want, but at the end of the stay you're still going to call me Dr.

 

[SuperMD17]

It's crazy! This attitude is why medicine continues to have racial bias that hurts minoroties even more. I've noticed that It's more bitter now that people are sitting on waitlists and are mad at all the brown people who got in. You can be racist all you want, but at the end of the stay you're still going to call me Dr.

Hollaaaaa lol love it!

 

[Magus5454]

There is no reason to do DO if you have an MD acceptance. People only do DO if they don’t have any MD acceptances.


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Hah, wish the people in the ARCOM thread would realize this.

 

[Ad2b]

........

the quote in your sig is wrong: the character Gregory House was an MD