AI researcher / software engineer thinking about switching to medicine

[guyfawkes9]

I'm a 29 year old male who works at a tech firm (one of Facebook, Google, Amazon, Netflix, Microsoft).

2009 - 2013: Graduated B.Sc. in Applied Math and CS (cGPA: 3.28; sGPA: 3.49)
Entered a PhD program in Statistics Fall 2013
Left PhD program with a Masters in Spring 2015 (cGPA: 3.1; sGPA: N/A)

Have worked in Statistics, ML, AI, and software development since then. While I left graduate school with a Masters, peers in my role are 90% PhDs (usually in computer science, physics, math, or related field). The short story is that I caught up through extensive self-study and rose the ranks. My role is a research role (i.e. regularly writing, reading, and applying academic machine learning papers is an expected duty of the role; publications are generally internal though for IP reasons) although we're also required to meet the same coding bar as the software engineers here.

I am looking to join medicine because I'm looking for something less abstract and more human. I want to help people, and I want see the people I'm helping. Lifestyle is fairly important to me, so I would probably be looking at one of the more relaxed specialties. Given that those usually pay less and that my compensation is already high, I figure this career change will probably be a paycut (even after residency and not counting the years without pay).

As far as school goes, I was actually pre-med for 1.5 years before switching to math/CS. So I took 1 year of each of physics, biology, and general chemistry in 2009-2011. Those courses are what make up my sGPA.

There's a very clear structure to my undergrad cGPA -- my science grades were mostly A/Bs; my early math courses (calc, etc.) were A/Bs. My CS courses and later math courses (i.e. the stuff only math majors take) were Cs. Everything else (writing, humanities, business, etc.) was unfailingly As. Given that I did math + CS + most of a pre-med curriculum, there wasn't a whole lot of non-[science/math/CS] though. Another interesting feature of my GPA was that cGPA was 3.56 as late as winter of my junior year; and cGPA was 3.44 going into winter of my senior year. My GPA tanked in the last two semesters (although I never got any Ds or Fs ever) because I took a full courseload of pure math/CS and had already applied to PhD programs. Not sure how much of this is of concern to admissions.

My hope is that my career success in math/stats/CS will somewhat mitigate my poor academic performance in them in the eyes of admissions and that my academic performance from 5-10 years ago will be somewhat de-emphasized relative to someone who recently graduated. Perspectives are welcome here.

My tentative plan is to take a year of organic chemistry + a course in biochemistry in a DIY post-bacc program before I apply to medical school -- I'll be aiming for As and I understand these grades will play a large role in how medical school admissions assess my ability to handle medical school coursework.

I have a several odds-and-ends activities that I can add to an application (as of today, at least) as well for what it's worth:
1) I published a pure math paper in a journal during undergrad
2) I won a debate state championship during undergrad
3) I was a student-athlete for my university during undergrad
4) I was an instructor for college-level statistics courses while I was in graduate school (meaning I planned the lectures, performed the lectures, wrote the test, graded the test, etc.)
5) I climb mountains for fun
6) As part of climbing mountains, I have some limited medical training (the equivalent of an 80-hour course in wilderness first response)


Here are my questions to the experts here:
1) How competitive do you think my application would be? I understand, of course, this depends in large part on my performance on MCAT and post-bacc courses.
2) What do you recommend I should do in terms of coursework?
My own thoughts are focused on:
- Organic chemistry is a required prerequisite I'll have to take
- My science courses are nearly 10 years old at this point
- Biochemistry is highly recommended

But I'm also aware that I'm not in position where my self-knowledge on this question is reliable and am seeking others' opinions. Would organic + biochem be sufficient? Or would more science coursework be recommended?

3) What non-coursework activities would strengthen my application?
4) Is 1.5 years (while working a 40 hrs/wk) a reasonable amount of time to get my application in-shape? Taking a 3-month or so unpaid sabbatical to dedicate full attention to this for a while is probably a possibility.
5) I'm sure software and/or tech -> med school has been done before, but has anyone written about and shared their experience for me to consume?
6) What would others caution me about were I to take this path?
7) Any other advice, feedback, recommendations would be highly appreciated

I'm very much interested in changing careers to medicine because I think it would make me happier than I am today (not whatsoever for financial or social status reasons). Medicine attracts me because I miss the sense of purpose I once had when I thought achieving my current role would lead to satisfaction; and I think that working with and seeing patients each day is a sustainable way to maintain that sense of purpose (because wanting to help others is part of who I am). But I'm also aware that many doctors regret choosing medicine, the grass is always greener somewhere else, and I'm a little hesitant about spending most of my mid-late 30s in med school + residency. I'm single, I would like to start a family one day, and worried that med school + residency from 32 - 39(+?) might jeopardize that. At the same time, my lack of interest in work bleeds through the rest of my life in a way that I'm unwilling to accept and so I'm quite motivated to undertake this path.

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[Meridian32]

I think your application to med school would probably be competitive and your skills would be in demand because the intersection of medicine and AI/ML is a hot area right now (as just one example, read this paper: Accuracy of a Deep Learning Algorithm for Detection of Diabetic Retinopathy). However, it sounds like while you like the idea of being a doctor, you may not know what being a doctor actually involves. Have you talked to or shadowed any doctors? If not, that should be the most important next step. You don't want to get to med school, then realize you don't want to be a doctor because your understanding of the profession did not align with reality.

If you work at Google or Microsoft, there are people at those companies with MDs, and talking to them would be a good place to start. As would searching this forum for threads by people interested in switching from engineering to medicine, of which there are a number. This thread from a few years ago is a good example of why the switch did NOT work out: Listen to the naysayers or why I left medical school

 

[GreenDuck12]

Here are my questions to the experts here:
1) How competitive do you think my application would be? I understand, of course, this depends in large part on my performance on MCAT and post-bacc courses.
Your story is unique as there likely aren't many other applicants with your background. As for how competitive, I'm not sure. Your stats, as they are, are well below the 25/75 percentile ranges for most schools, but that would be repaired to some degree by a post-bac program. Age could be a factor as well (it was something my advisor cautioned about this past year). Specifically, he mentioned that research heavy schools tend to have a younger median age of matriculant that other programs. That may be a factor but given your background it may not. Personally, I think your background could make an interesting addition to most programs given how important machine learning is becoming.

2) What do you recommend I should do in terms of coursework?
My own thoughts are focused on:
- Organic chemistry is a required prerequisite I'll have to take
- My science courses are nearly 10 years old at this point
- Biochemistry is highly recommended
Before starting classes, I would highly recommend you invest in a subscription of the MSAR from the AAMC. It provides an overview of admissions data for all US and Canadian medical schools detailing which schools accept older classes/online classes/community college classes. This would give you an idea which schools would accept 10 year old courses.

Biochemistry is becoming a requirement at most schools and is very heavily emphasized on the MCAT.

Personally, I don't think taking organic chemistry and biochemistry would be sufficient. Part of what you need to do as an older applicant (like myself) is demonstrate that 1. you can still handle the rigors of being a student by taking several science classes at the same time for several semesters and do well in them and 2. that the student that earned the following GPAs is not the student you currently are ( cGPA: 3.28; sGPA: 3.49) I would recommend, if not redoing biology and general chemistry (for age of course requirements), taking upper level courses in genetics, cell biology, molecular bio, etc etc will help round out your application. Given the length of time you've been out of school, I think 3 or 4 semesters of classes is reasonable if you are a part time student.


3) What non-coursework activities would strengthen my application?
As an older student, you are expected to have a strong reason for changing careers and the standard answer of wanting to help people isn't going to cut it. You should spend some time doing the following: 1. shadowing physicians, both PCPs and specialists, to see if you like the work that they do 2. spend time volunteering in a hospital, clinic, hospice, or free clinic to see if you like working in the settings that doctors commonly work in and if you enjoy being around folks who are sick, dealing with illness, addiction, mental illness, etc. Additionally, most applicants to medical school have some experience with medical/biological research. Getting experience as a clinical coordinator in a research hospital could be useful but given your background may not be necessary. It will take some time to get the hours needed to round out your application.

4) Is 1.5 years (while working a 40 hrs/wk) a reasonable amount of time to get my application in-shape? Taking a 3-month or so unpaid sabbatical to dedicate full attention to this for a while is probably a possibility.
I am highly doubtful on this front. To get your application in shape, you are going to need to complete some rigorous classes and do well in them, relearn general chemistry, biology, and physics plus study for the MCAT, gain experience in a medical setting, and craft a reasonable career change personal statement. For perspective, I started my post-bac at 25, I took three years to complete the pre-reqs plus some other classes, and an additional year to take the MCAT. I was recently admitted to med school at 29 and will enroll shortly after turning 30. Preparing a competitive application takes time. That being said, I only took classes part time because I needed to work. Those who can commit to full-time study or already have some pre-reqs completed are able to prepare applications in less time.

5) I'm sure software and/or tech -> med school has been done before, but has anyone written about and shared their experience for me to consume?
Not sure but there have been posts by many folks who have switched from banking, consulting, law, nursing, academic, etc.

6) What would others caution me about were I to take this path?
"I am looking to join medicine because I'm looking for something less abstract and more human. I want to help people, and I want see the people I'm helping. Lifestyle is fairly important to me, so I would probably be looking at one of the more relaxed specialties."

I would encourage you to really examine your motivations to pursue this career change and the amount of work you are committing yourself to by doing it.Medical school and residency both with involve significant amounts of effort and time, at a time when most folks your age are looking to settle down. I also say this as someone who started my post-bac program with about 250 other post-bac students who gradually came to realize they didn't want to continue with this process, including some close friends of mine.


7) Any other advice, feedback, recommendations would be highly appreciated
My final piece of advice would be to respect your competition. Each year, 60% of applicants to medical school do not matriculate. That isn't to discourage you from pursuing a career in medicine but to help put things in perspective and not rush the process. Ive had several friends who have gotten impatient with the pace of their preparation and decide to either take to many classes or take the MCAT to soon and in turn have harmed their application and had unsuccessful application cycles. Make sure you sign up for a reasonable course load (not too lite but also not more than you can chew). Make sure you take the MCAT when you are prepared to do well and do not rush it in an effort to make a certain application cycle. Spend time working on your personal statement and get feedback from people you trust and from others who aren't familiar with your study. Get some current letters of recommendation as well as some letters from when you were in school before. A career change to medicine is a marathon, not a sprint. Best of luck to you.

 

[futuremdforme]

I will address #5. I am a software --> Med non-trad. I didn't have to take any extra courses despite my pre-reqs being 10 years old because my GPA was sufficient. I studied for the MCAT while working my (more than) full time job. I chose volunteering that I could do on weekends. I applied to 13 schools, had 5 interviews, and had 4 acceptances (all but the first). It was almost exactly 2 years from my decision to do medicine to the date I matriculated.

 

[guyfawkes9]

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to respond. Responses were immensely helpfuI and I greatly appreciate it. I will post here later if I have any additional/follow-up questions.

 

[samuel984]

4) Is 1.5 years (while working a 40 hrs/wk) a reasonable amount of time to get my application in-shape? Taking a 3-month or so unpaid sabbatical to dedicate full attention to this for a while is probably a possibility.
I am highly doubtful on this front. To get your application in shape, you are going to need to complete some rigorous classes and do well in them, relearn general chemistry, biology, and physics plus study for the MCAT, gain experience in a medical setting, and craft a reasonable career change personal statement. For perspective, I started my post-bac at 25, I took three years to complete the pre-reqs plus some other classes, and an additional year to take the MCAT. I was recently admitted to med school at 29 and will enroll shortly after turning 30. Preparing a competitive application takes time. That being said, I only took classes part time because I needed to work. Those who can commit to full-time study or already have some pre-reqs completed are able to prepare applications in less time.

@GreenDuck12
I have similar situation as OP. Did you take the pre-req classes part-time in community college or 4-year university? I heard classes from community college may weigh less for admission, but it seems most part-time pre-req classes are open in community colleges.

Thanks!

 

[GreenDuck12]

I did a combination of the two. My first year of postbac classes were at a CC due to geographic and professional constraints. For the second and third year I took classes at a 4 year university like postbac program That offered more premedical support and had classes with students who were doing similar things I was. In terms of how community classes are viewed, some schools state a preference for classes to be completed at 4 year universities, some accept them on a case by case basis, others have no issues with them. If you get an MSAR subscription from the AAMC you can see the preference from programs that you are interested in applying to. I think the general consensus here is that CC classes for non traditional students are fine.