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Torrent of Water

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Preface: I hereby declare that multiple majors do not in any measurable way increase your chances of getting into medical school or the MD/PhD program. Do not crucify me.

However, one of the biggest slights against modern education is the notion that majoring in more than one thing, or even triple-majoring, is an utter waste of time that should be condemned and rebuked till not a single pretentious snot-nose daring to learn about more than one thing remains. If you think I'm blowing it out of proportion, I'm not; merely meandering the forums, even academic ones, regarding double- or triple-majoring, one finds comments against people pursuing such ideals like, "They're d**k measuring," or "Somebody thinks he's hung," or "People who get more than one major come across as indecisive and unprepared."

You might say that people only say these things to expunge the false belief that double- or triple-majoring supplements medical school applications--but that's not always the case. Looking at it qualitatively, the average opinion of most academic critics toward undergraduate majoring in multiple fields can be described by one word: pretentious. From magazine articles decrying it to retired professors on rants at my school, it is the obvious attitude.

I believe this is hogwash. SO LONG as no more than 4-5 years is spent pursuing your interests, double- and triple-majoring should be ENCOURAGED. A friend of mine was going to pursue a dual-degree in music and in chemical engineering, but dropped the second music degree because of people left and right discouraging him. Granted, they had a point--there's not much music in chemical engineering, but that is beside the point, and that's something nobody seems to get. I believe there is a dissolution of fascination with knowledge making its way around the developed world. People get degrees for "job" insights and "career" moves, rather than truly going all out with the things that interest them. And to say that devoting all your time on any one thing during your undergraduate years is the wiser move is fallacious. True, eventually you will specialize beyond undergraduate, but that doesn't mean you should be disenchanted with the thought of diversifying earlier on. Knowledge is never wasted.

The "advice" given by most people regarding multiple majors is almost NEVER positive, despite many successful people having done so (like Bill Maher, the guy who discovered the Titanic shipwreck, etc.). Some of the greatest figures in history (Newton, Galileo, Aristotle, Einstein, etc.) were learned in WAY more than one field. It seems as time progresses less and less people are encouraging the pursuit of multiple areas of knowledge, and are completely disregarding the possible benefits. For example, someone pursuing a PhD in medicine can EASILY benefit from a bachelor's in psychology, due to the intensive, literature-based empiricism of latter psychology courses that one does not comparably receive while pursuing a bachelor's in biochemistry or biology. I'm almost finished with Biochem, and I'll be damned if I know any of the procedures involved in setting up an experiment, amassing sample sets (volunteers, subjects), or how to write a proposal, etc.,whereas in my school these facets are all commonplace learning points in the upper-division psychology courses.

In one sentence: Whether or not it gives me an edge in medical school, if you asked me whether I wanted to be knowledgeable in psychology AND biochemistry versus just one of the two at the risk of seeming "pretentious," I will choose the former.

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First of all, where is this rant coming from? I've never met ANYONE who looked down on people who majored in multiple things. In fact, I'm pretty sure most people are in awe of people who double major.

Personally, I agree with you that there's value in being good at multiple things vs. just one. I think it was Scott Adams who said that it's easier to be successful if you're good at two things rather than great at one. But it's better to choose things that are worthwhile. For example, double majoring with psychology is not as impressive or useful as double majoring with Comp Sci. And I guess I would assume that if someone double majored in psych they were mainly doing it just to boost their GPA. (At least that's what people did at my college). However, I still really respected the people who did it because it's still pretty awesome to double major in any two fields.
 
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I must say that you haven't quite thought out the concept of multiple majors as well as you think you have. First off, the "negativity" that you may have seen on forums is because of questions such as "Will having 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10…….. majors help me?!?!?" The response given is a result of the intention behind pursuing multiple majors as well as the simple truth that having additional majors does not directly benefit one in admission to medical school.

There is obviously value in having a wide breadth of knowledge and experiences, but the more important thing to consider is whether it's a better investment on for someone to pursue all that extra "stuff." Sure you could triple major but why not spend the extra time giving back to the community, learning new skills through research, etc? Majoring in something isn't the only way to amass knowledge nor is it the most efficient. Heck, what you go through for a major largely won't be helpful at all IMO. If you're interested in a particular topic, you can just learn it without having to go through the major itself. As an example, doctors don't have to have degrees in bioethics, public health, biostatistics, epidemiology, etc. They learn these things but you don't need an actual degree.
 
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If you're interested in a particular topic, you can just learn it without having to go through the major itself. As an example, doctors don't have to have degrees in bioethics, public health, biostatistics, epidemiology, etc. They learn these things but you don't need an actual degree.

I agree 100% actually. To anyone looking to build their knowledge base - LEARN PROGRAMMING. Especially if you're in a gap year. LEARN PROGRAMMING. There are so many resources online to learn from. Tons of programmers are self taught. It's only going to get more important and useful as time goes on. I guarantee you that you won't regret it.
 
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I really don't understand what you're ranting for OP. As @NimbleNavigator and @MaxPlancker said there isn't a 'negative' attitude concerning multiple majors on SDN except when the question is posed as their possible utility in getting into med school (which is not a lot).

I was a ChemE/biochem double major in UG and found it helped with time management and certainly with the PhD part of my MD/PhD training. That being said, it's a tough path to take that most likely results in one taking a critical hit with their GPA which tends to be detrimental to med school aspirations.

Also from what I've seen not all multiple major combos really make a lot of sense or better prepare one for the workforce. So taking a GPA hit in a non/less marketable major seems like a double hit that hurts ones chances of med school and a job which seems like a bad choice to me. If you just want to learn the subject matter, the Internet is free or minor in the subject.
 
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I have literally never heard of someone getting dinged for double majors...

also is there a TL;DR? I stopped reading after the 12th paragraph
 
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Why would anyone even be critisized in the first place? If anything, it's impressive. One of my teachers has 5 majors over the course of his education.
 
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First of all, I apologize for the tl;dr. I also concede that perhaps I blew it out of proportion. But for future reference, bear in mind that USA Today claims double-majoring can ruin your career (with just a bunch of statistical garbage that doesn't really pertain to how or why double-majoring can ruin your career. Maybe they should have double-majored in statistics). An article by Time magazine suggests universities are considering banning double majors altogether.
So it is a swift rebuttal for all of you to say that there hasn't been any negativity toward multiple majors. From the way you guys are refuting my post, one would imagine that multiple majors are just as aptly the root of all good in the world for undergraduates, like it was twenty years ago.
In reality, double-majoring and triple-majoring has come under harsher scrutiny than you guys may have previously thought. Just this week a retired lawyer/professor from the University of Chicago went on a 2-hour rant during a seminar about why double-majoring is for arrogant peasants.
@MaxPlancker "Heck, what you go through for a major largely won't be helpful at all IMO. If you're interested in a particular topic, you can just learn it without having to go through the major itself." I don't think that is at all accurate. While it's true you can learn programming by yourself, it is extremely difficult and almost not worth your time for many other disciplines, simply because of the nature of the discipline. Medical Laboratory Science, for example. Theoretical Physics. Biochemistry. Music Theory and History. These are majors that quite frankly are not worth your time wrestling with on your own. The disciplines are way too broad, general, and intensive to be worth your time without proper instruction.
Undergraduate research is also not the answer. For one, undergraduate research is not a quick and easy process. Many research teams will not consider students for undergrad research unless they're in the major of interest, and perhaps will require some prerequisite coursework to be considered to join their lab or team. You also cannot get a major's worth of knowledge from undergrad research, since the research in question is almost always extremely specific in the discipline.
 
What part of "we don't care what your major or minor is or that you double major, only that you do well" is full of hate?????

Take two of these, stat:






Preface: I hereby declare that multiple majors do not in any measurable way increase your chances of getting into medical school or the MD/PhD program. Do not crucify me.

However, one of the biggest slights against modern education is the notion that majoring in more than one thing, or even triple-majoring, is an utter waste of time that should be condemned and rebuked till not a single pretentious snot-nose daring to learn about more than one thing remains. If you think I'm blowing it out of proportion, I'm not; merely meandering the forums, even academic ones, regarding double- or triple-majoring, one finds comments against people pursuing such ideals like, "They're d**k measuring," or "Somebody thinks he's hung," or "People who get more than one major come across as indecisive and unprepared."

You might say that people only say these things to expunge the false belief that double- or triple-majoring supplements medical school applications--but that's not always the case. Looking at it qualitatively, the average opinion of most academic critics toward undergraduate majoring in multiple fields can be described by one word: pretentious. From magazine articles decrying it to retired professors on rants at my school, it is the obvious attitude.

I believe this is hogwash. SO LONG as no more than 4-5 years is spent pursuing your interests, double- and triple-majoring should be ENCOURAGED. A friend of mine was going to pursue a dual-degree in music and in chemical engineering, but dropped the second music degree because of people left and right discouraging him. Granted, they had a point--there's not much music in chemical engineering, but that is beside the point, and that's something nobody seems to get. I believe there is a dissolution of fascination with knowledge making its way around the developed world. People get degrees for "job" insights and "career" moves, rather than truly going all out with the things that interest them. And to say that devoting all your time on any one thing during your undergraduate years is the wiser move is fallacious. True, eventually you will specialize beyond undergraduate, but that doesn't mean you should be disenchanted with the thought of diversifying earlier on. Knowledge is never wasted.

The "advice" given by most people regarding multiple majors is almost NEVER positive, despite many successful people having done so (like Bill Maher, the guy who discovered the Titanic shipwreck, etc.). Some of the greatest figures in history (Newton, Galileo, Aristotle, Einstein, etc.) were learned in WAY more than one field. It seems as time progresses less and less people are encouraging the pursuit of multiple areas of knowledge, and are completely disregarding the possible benefits. For example, someone pursuing a PhD in medicine can EASILY benefit from a bachelor's in psychology, due to the intensive, literature-based empiricism of latter psychology courses that one does not comparably receive while pursuing a bachelor's in biochemistry or biology. I'm almost finished with Biochem, and I'll be damned if I know any of the procedures involved in setting up an experiment, amassing sample sets (volunteers, subjects), or how to write a proposal, etc.,whereas in my school these facets are all commonplace learning points in the upper-division psychology courses.

In one sentence: Whether or not it gives me an edge in medical school, if you asked me whether I wanted to be knowledgeable in psychology AND biochemistry versus just one of the two at the risk of seeming "pretentious," I will choose the former.
 
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First of all, I apologize for the tl;dr. I also concede that perhaps I blew it out of proportion. But for future reference, bear in mind that USA Today claims double-majoring can ruin your career (with just a bunch of statistical garbage that doesn't really pertain to how or why double-majoring can ruin your career. Maybe they should have double-majored in statistics). An article by Time magazine suggests universities are considering banning double majors altogether.
So it is a swift rebuttal for all of you to say that there hasn't been any negativity toward multiple majors. From the way you guys are refuting my post, one would imagine that multiple majors are just as aptly the root of all good in the world for undergraduates, like it was twenty years ago.
In reality, double-majoring and triple-majoring has come under harsher scrutiny than you guys may have previously thought. Just this week a retired lawyer/professor from the University of Chicago went on a 2-hour rant during a seminar about why double-majoring is for arrogant peasants.
@MaxPlancker "Heck, what you go through for a major largely won't be helpful at all IMO. If you're interested in a particular topic, you can just learn it without having to go through the major itself." I don't think that is at all accurate. While it's true you can learn programming by yourself, it is extremely difficult and almost not worth your time for many other disciplines, simply because of the nature of the discipline. Medical Laboratory Science, for example. Theoretical Physics. Biochemistry. Music Theory and History. These are majors that quite frankly are not worth your time wrestling with on your own. The disciplines are way too broad, general, and intensive to be worth your time without proper instruction.
Undergraduate research is also not the answer. For one, undergraduate research is not a quick and easy process. Many research teams will not consider students for undergrad research unless they're in the major of interest, and perhaps will require some prerequisite coursework to be considered to join their lab or team. You also cannot get a major's worth of knowledge from undergrad research, since the research in question is almost always extremely specific in the discipline.

Nobody said there wasn't any negativity nor whatever you go on to say. Coolstory and whatever floats his boat to the UChicago prof...doesn't mean much.

Lol sorry but I don't think your logic is er...logical. There are perhaps topics out there that would require in-person instruction but the majority of what you want to learn can be done very well without getting an actual degree. For the courses that you do need in-person time, take the course. A few courses != a major. I majored in Biochemistry and I can tell you first hand that it's doable without "proper instruction" and isn't that bad "wrestling with on your own." IMO music theory and history would be certainly self-studiable more so than other areas.

Other points:
  • Nobody said research was the answer. It was mentioned as an example of an experience that could be a better investment of time.
  • Not quite sure why you have that perception but most unis/institutes that I've been at around the world have taken in the undergrads knowing they have little to offer regardless of their major.
  • I'd argue that I've learned more from my time in the lab than in school. By a long shot. Just because a research topic is specific doesn't mean you only learn about that specific topic...lollllllllllll sorry but I don't think you've undergone some experiences and are way over simplifying everything you're talking about it's humorous.
  • Knowledge isn't the most important thing in life. You also need to develop skills like actually utilizing the knowledge you have--the intangibles not taught in a classroom or major. You need to learn how to work with people in various capacities blah blah. I'd hire someone who had less knowledge but could think for himself than someone that only had knowledge knowledge knowledge. This is kind of like the Asian schooling vs Western schooling debate. Lack some knowledge? GOOGLE. You realize doctors don't know everything but do know how to obtain the knowledge they need?
Edit: What's your purpose in bringing up this topic? Do you think knowledge is the best thing in the world and whoever has more knowledge is the superior being? Lol I'm not quite following your purpose here.
 
......the argument against double majoring is to allow yourself to learn more from diverse subject areas.

No one actually cares if you double major though and I know plenty of people who do (even friends I have at UChicago). I will admit that I do want to slap those people who triple in bio, chem, and biochem. They are just trying to brag about how they are handling 3 majors when in reality there are like 3 classes in biochem that aren't required for chem and those 3 classes are count for the bio major that is already almost finished by the time you finish the chem major.
 
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What part of "we don't care what your major or minor is or that you double major, only that you do well" is full of hate?????

Take two of these, stat:


@Goro is out here prescribing Xanax hahahaha LOVE IT
 
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I haven't seen vitriol about double majors. Rather, I've seen people think that double majors improve their chance of admission to medical school and then insist despite advice from multiple physicians on admissions committees that their double major should help. And then they need to be brought down to earth.
 
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......the argument against double majoring is to allow yourself to learn more from diverse subject areas.

No one actually cares if you double major though and I know plenty of people who do (even friends I have at UChicago). I will admit that I do want to slap those people who triple in bio, chem, and biochem. They are just trying to brag about how they are handling 3 majors when in reality there are like 3 classes in biochem that aren't required for chem and those 3 classes are count for the bio major that is already almost finished by the time you finish the chem major.

Lol - I feel the same about math/physics/cs triple majors
 
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......the argument against double majoring is to allow yourself to learn more from diverse subject areas.

No one actually cares if you double major though and I know plenty of people who do (even friends I have at UChicago). I will admit that I do want to slap those people who triple in bio, chem, and biochem. They are just trying to brag about how they are handling 3 majors when in reality there are like 3 classes in biochem that aren't required for chem and those 3 classes are count for the bio major that is already almost finished by the time you finish the chem major.
My school doesn't let people double major in biochem and biology because they are too similar
 
@MaxPlancker "lollllllllllll sorry but I don't think you've undergone some experiences and are way over simplifying everything you're talking about it's humorous," said the guy who suggested doctors should google what they don't know. Research has shown, by the way, that long-term memory is decreasing in people because of snap answers to snap questions rather than in-depth understanding. It's worth noting that you don't necessarily know the experiences I've "undergone," so keep the slights out of the forum. I don't think knowledge is everything, no. It's true that applying knowledge is more important in the real world, but application can never come without the base knowledge to begin with. @MaxPlancker I had quite the response for you, but I did as Goro said and took da chill pill. I just want you to know you behave less than honorably.

As for me, I switched to Microbio and biochem, possibly with something else on the side. I realized the biochem degree did very little in way of preparing me for biological labs (assays, culturing, immunology, etc.).
 
I'm not really sure where this is coming from, and I'm still not sure that it really relates to pre-allo (other than the teaser about how double majoring doesn't affect your med school chances in your preface) but here are my thoughts.

I'm writing this from the hypothetical perspective of someone who intends to go to medical school. If you can double (or triple) major, keep up with your extracurriculars, be reasonably happy, and (most importantly) keep your GPA up, then great, go for it. However, for some people, double/triple majoring will negatively impact their GPA. In most cases, the fact that you double or triple majored will not make up for a subpar GPA, i.e. all other things being equal (remember, hypothetical), a single major with a 3.8 has an edge over a double major with a 3.5. In this case, the hypothetical applicant has to choose between "learning more" and being a more competitive applicant to medical school.

Functionally, the main reason you see double majors discouraged is that this is a site devoted to helping people get into medical school, and when this question is asked, there is either the overt or implied implication that the poster thinks a double major will make up for a lower GPA. In most cases, this will not hold true, and responding posters take it upon themselves to disabuse the original poster of this notion.

Again, if you can do multiple majors and keep your GPA up, great. If you can't, well, you have a choice to make.
 
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@WedgeDawg I apologize for the misdirected pre-allo subject, excuse this forum newb. I think you just summed it up in a gratifying way. Thanks!
 
I'm actually having a lot of trouble getting into labs as a non-science major at my university. I can't afford to volunteer for huge swaths of time in a lab (I have to work & am not getting help from parents to pay for school), and labs will not hire non-majors here. As a result, I've been seriously considering taking the 30ish credit hours it would take for me to finish a bio or chem major just so I can get some lab experience.
 
You mean, this? Are these just various opinion articles?

http://college.usatoday.com/2011/07/01/why-a-double-major-could-ruin-your-career/
"A double major may very well give you a competitive edge if you couple it with other career development strategies, but do not erroneously assume that employers and graduate schools will find you more attractive simply because you have a double major."

But http://college.usatoday.com/2013/05/02/opinion-nobody-cares-about-your-double-major/
"But in large part, nobody really cares what you majored in, and nobody cares at all if you double majored, majored and minored, majored and double minored, and so on."

And http://college.usatoday.com/2014/11/27/5-signs-double-majoring-may-be-right-for-you/
"Many schools offer a wide variety of majors, and some students have trouble settling on just one. This is where the college double major can be useful. Though double majoring can require more work, it can be very rewarding for certain students."

And the Time article? http://nation.time.com/2013/01/31/should-colleges-ban-double-majors/
"The recommendation, along with the commission’s less surprising exhortations to create more flexible schedules and make it easier for students to transfer credits from one institution to another, is being put forth in an effort to improve the country’s dismally low college completion rate: just 58% of students who enroll in bachelor’s degree programs at four-year institutions graduate within six years and only 30% of students who enroll in certificate or associate’s degree programs at two-year institutions complete their degree within three years."

It seems like people who disagree with flat-out encouraging students to multi-major are trying to discourage myths like how “Many double-major students feel it is not enough to have a college degree — they need to further distinguish and differentiate themselves.”

Just this week a retired lawyer/professor from the University of Chicago went on a 2-hour rant during a seminar about why double-majoring is for arrogant peasants.
That's SAVAGE, lol.

I will say that people have both discouraged me and told me they had much respect for me when I was trying to double-major in Applied Math and Behavioral Biology. One shouldn't let other people's opinions prevent them from pursuing their passions if that's what they really want. People also discourage students from being pre-med. Because it's hard to do, and it's something you shouldn't do just because it's an option. People also develop misconceptions about the "type" of people that premeds are: neurotic and self-absorbed. I think when people say that those who are double-majoring are arrogant, it's because they've encountered people who've come across that way and generalize.
 
@MaxPlancker "lollllllllllll sorry but I don't think you've undergone some experiences and are way over simplifying everything you're talking about it's humorous," said the guy who suggested doctors should google what they don't know. Research has shown, by the way, that long-term memory is decreasing in people because of snap answers to snap questions rather than in-depth understanding. It's worth noting that you don't necessarily know the experiences I've "undergone," so keep the slights out of the forum. I don't think knowledge is everything, no. It's true that applying knowledge is more important in the real world, but application can never come without the base knowledge to begin with. @MaxPlancker I had quite the response for you, but I did as Goro said and took da chill pill. I just want you to know you behave less than honorably.

As for me, I switched to Microbio and biochem, possibly with something else on the side. I realized the biochem degree did very little in way of preparing me for biological labs (assays, culturing, immunology, etc.).

What is this? Feudal Japan?

That may be true for your biochem degree, but with mine I had the opportunity to do quite a bit of biological assays (though not immunology, unless you're talking about FACS)
 
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....I will say that people have both discouraged me and told me they had much respect for me when I was trying to double-major in Applied Math and Behavioral Biology. One shouldn't let other people's opinions prevent them from pursuing their passions if that's what they really want. People also discourage students from being pre-med. Because it's hard to do, and it's something you shouldn't do just because it's an option. People also develop misconceptions about the "type" of people that premeds are: neurotic and self-absorbed. I think when people say that those who are double-majoring are arrogant, it's because they've encountered people who've come across that way and generalize.

That's a good combo and you wouldn't be limited if you chose not to do med school.
 
That's a good combo and you wouldn't be limited if you chose not to do med school.
Yeah, I dropped Behavioral Bio, lol. I was interested in the concept, but the major is so broad, I was having to take all of these courses on animal behavior and evolution when I was more interested in the neuroscience and psychology behind human behavior. I was about to suck it up for the sake of the being able to say I did a double major. But then I realized that was a dumb reason and that I would rather take classes in subjects that I was more interested in.
 
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Yeah, I dropped Behavioral Bio, lol. I was interested in the concept, but the major is so broad, I was having to take all of these courses on animal behavior and evolution when I was more interested in the neuroscience and psychology behind human behavior. I was about to suck it up for the sake of the being able to say I did a double major. But then I realized that was a dumb reason and that I would rather take classes in subjects that I was more interested in.

That works as well.
 
What part of "we don't care what your major or minor is or that you double major, only that you do well" is full of hate?????

Take two of these, stat:

Do they still make Alprazolam in a 1 mg dose!? Holy cow.
 
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