Am I being led astray?

[MidwestOddOne]

Hi everyone, I am a non-traditional. I began my college career as a nursing major, and transferred to Biology after working in the hospital as a tech for a period of time. I realized rather late into my college career that the autonomy, and intellectual stimulation of becoming a physician was what I would rather be doing. Unfortunately, by the time I had realized this, I was already a senior in undergraduate. I completed a dual-degree in Biology/Psychology, with a cumulative GPA of 3.07, SGPA of 3.1(With a significant upward trend, nothing lower than a 3.7 in the last two years, including my Orgo sequence.) In addition, I have been working full-time as a 911 Dispatcher for a large urban municipality for the previous two-years, while attending school full time, in order to support my family.
I met with my pre-Health advisor, for advice, and she advised me that as a 25 year old already in the workforce, I was a non-traditional applicant. She advised me that my best course of action would be to complete a Special Masters Program, and gave me a list of such programs. She advised me she would assist me in the completion of applications to these programs, and additionally told me that my significant upward trend would be to my benefit. I had some concerns that I do not feel are properly addressed by her, however.

If it helps, I am a MICHIGAN resident.

-My GPA from my first year in college as a nursing student was abysmal (CGPA=2.13 for the first year), I failed a class. My advisor states that I don't need any post-baccalaureate work, but I am concerned that this will affect my overall cumulative GPA/Science GPA. This coursework was completed over 7 years ago, but I understand it follows me forever. I haven't factored this into my cumulative yet, as I am still waiting on degree-posting in order to view my full transcript, but I am concerned this will drop my cumulative below a 3.0.

-I have a couple hundred volunteer hours, both clinical (ER), and nonclinical (Music Education, therapeutic horseback riding for disabled children), I plan to continue to volunteer all throughout my SMP, should I add any other opportunities?

-I have zero research experience, and it would appear that almost all faculty want an underclassman undergraduate for their labs. Should I continue to seek this?
Am I being led in the right direction? Is an SMP really my best bet? Would a post-bac be better? I understand it will take some work, and I might be a bit older than your average applicant, but I really want to go this route.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Hi everyone, I am a non-traditional. I began my college career as a nursing major, and transferred to Biology after working in the hospital as a tech for a period of time. I realized rather late into my college career that the autonomy, and intellectual stimulation of becoming a physician was what I would rather be doing. Unfortunately, by the time I had realized this, I was already a senior in undergraduate. I completed a dual-degree in Biology/Psychology, with a cumulative GPA of 3.07, SGPA of 3.1(With a significant upward trend, nothing lower than a 3.7 in the last two years, including my Orgo sequence.) In addition, I have been working full-time as a 911 Dispatcher for a large urban municipality for the previous two-years, while attending school full time, in order to support my family.
I met with my pre-Health advisor, for advice, and she advised me that as a 25 year old already in the workforce, I was a non-traditional applicant. She advised me that my best course of action would be to complete a Special Masters Program, and gave me a list of such programs. She advised me she would assist me in the completion of applications to these programs, and additionally told me that my significant upward trend would be to my benefit. I had some concerns that I do not feel are properly addressed by her, however.

If it helps, I am a MICHIGAN resident.

-My GPA from my first year in college as a nursing student was abysmal (CGPA=2.13 for the first year), I failed a class. My advisor states that I don't need any post-baccalaureate work, but I am concerned that this will affect my overall cumulative GPA/Science GPA. This coursework was completed over 7 years ago, but I understand it follows me forever. I haven't factored this into my cumulative yet, as I am still waiting on degree-posting in order to view my full transcript, but I am concerned this will drop my cumulative below a 3.0.

-I have a couple hundred volunteer hours, both clinical (ER), and nonclinical (Music Education, therapeutic horseback riding for disabled children), I plan to continue to volunteer all throughout my SMP, should I add any other opportunities?

-I have zero research experience, and it would appear that almost all faculty want an underclassman undergraduate for their labs. Should I continue to seek this?
Am I being led in the right direction? Is an SMP really my best bet? Would a post-bac be better? I understand it will take some work, and I might be a bit older than your average applicant, but I really want to go this route.

Lots of nontrads screwed around as 18-19 year olds and earned themselves bad freshman year GPAs. You're not alone. With a good reinvention process and a strong MCAT, medical school is within your reach. Your freshman year GPA is going to be permanent, but you have a strong upward trend going for you. If you drop below a 3.0 when all your grades are factored, you may be autoscreened from certain SMP programs that require a 3.0 minimum. If this is the case, you could either contact their admissions staff to request an exception, or you could take a post-bac class or two to bump your GPA back up over the 3.0 line.

Have you taken all of your medical school prerequisites (I am assuming so, but just double checking)? What is your overall science GPA (bio, chemistry, physics, math courses)?

Your volunteering looks great! Clinical experience is solid and I love that you worked with kids with disabilities. Research isn't going to be a huge deal for you as a nontrad, so pursue it only if it's something you really want to do. It is unlikely you'll be targeting the medical schools that expect to see lots of research, so don't stress about not having this on your application.

I am a nontrad myself, and I found that it was actually my leadership activities that garnered the most interest at interviews. Start thinking about the leadership roles you have held, whether in a professional, academic, or extracurricular setting. Consider the projects you have managed, teams you have led, ways you have mentored/trained people, and start considering how you could discuss those experiences on your application and in interviews.

I don't see shadowing, so you need to get 40-80 hours in before you apply if you haven't done this yet. I recommend that you spend at least a week with a primary care physician, and then add on shadowing in other specialties from there if you like.

Regarding the SMP vs. DIY post-bac: I suspect your advisor is telling you to do an SMP because you don't need to retake any prerequisites and you have a strong upward trend. SMPs are expensive, but they are an efficient path to medical school - especially if the SMP offers linkage(s) and MCAT prep. You will be expected to perform at a very high level, and they can be quite challenging, so it's critical you earn a high GPA in your program. You'll need a solid MCAT as well.

You could theoretically do a DIY postbac of upper division science courses for a year or two, I suppose, but I think I agree with your advisor about the SMP being the best option in your situation.

And finally, Michigan is a great state to be in as a nontrad. If I recall correctly, Wayne State is especially amenable to reinventors such as yourself.

 

[MidwestOddOne]

Lots of nontrads screwed around as 18-19 year olds and earned themselves bad freshman year GPAs. You're not alone. With a good reinvention process and a strong MCAT, medical school is within your reach. Your freshman year GPA is going to be permanent, but you have a strong upward trend going for you. If you drop below a 3.0 when all your grades are factored, you may be autoscreened from certain SMP programs that require a 3.0 minimum. If this is the case, you could either contact their admissions staff to request an exception, or you could take a post-bac class or two to bump your GPA back up over the 3.0 line.

Have you taken all of your medical school prerequisites (I am assuming so, but just double checking)? What is your overall science GPA (bio, chemistry, physics, math courses)?

Your volunteering looks great! Clinical experience is solid and I love that you worked with kids with disabilities. Research isn't going to be a huge deal for you as a nontrad, so pursue it only if it's something you really want to do. It is unlikely you'll be targeting the medical schools that expect to see lots of research, so don't stress about not having this on your application.

I am a nontrad myself, and I found that it was actually my leadership activities that garnered the most interest at interviews. Start thinking about the leadership roles you have held, whether in a professional, academic, or extracurricular setting. Consider the projects you have managed, teams you have led, ways you have mentored/trained people, and start considering how you could discuss those experiences on your application and in interviews.

I don't see shadowing, so you need to get 40-80 hours in before you apply if you haven't done this yet. I recommend that you spend at least a week with a primary care physician, and then add on shadowing in other specialties from there if you like.

Regarding the SMP vs. DIY post-bac: I suspect your advisor is telling you to do an SMP because you don't need to retake any prerequisites and you have a strong upward trend. SMPs are expensive, but they are an efficient path to medical school - especially if the SMP offers linkage(s) and MCAT prep. You will be expected to perform at a very high level, and they can be quite challenging, so it's critical you earn a high GPA in your program. You'll need a solid MCAT as well.

You could theoretically do a DIY postbac of upper division science courses for a year or two, I suppose, but I think I agree with your advisor about the SMP being the best option in your situation.

And finally, Michigan is a great state to be in as a nontrad. If I recall correctly, Wayne State is especially amenable to reinventors such as yourself.

Yes, forgot to mention. Over the past couple years I have about 100 hours of shadowing. Intend to get about 50 more done, once my overtime schedule at work dies down. I'll do the math once my degree posts, so I can see how I'm doing with the SMP auto-screeners. Are SMP directors typically open to open-conversation from applicants on upward trend and special circumstances.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Yes, forgot to mention. Over the past couple years I have about 100 hours of shadowing. Intend to get about 50 more done, once my overtime schedule at work dies down. I'll do the math once my degree posts, so I can see how I'm doing with the SMP auto-screeners. Are SMP directors typically open to open-conversation from applicants on upward trend and special circumstances.

You don't need more shadowing unless there's a specialty you really want to see, just FYI! 100 hours is more than enough. Your ECs look really good.

I did not do an SMP myself (did everything DIY), but I have heard secondhand that other nontraditionals with <3.0 uGPAs have had success in getting through autofilters by talking to the SMP programs directly. There is an active SMP thread going in the Nontraditionals forum, so you might check with the folks over there and see if anyone can share their insights.

 

[gyngyn]

Yes, forgot to mention. Over the past couple years I have about 100 hours of shadowing. Intend to get about 50 more done, once my overtime schedule at work dies down. I'll do the math once my degree posts, so I can see how I'm doing with the SMP auto-screeners. Are SMP directors typically open to open-conversation from applicants on upward trend and special circumstances.

If you have 40 hours shadowing primary care specialties, you already have more than enough.

 

[gyngyn]

You don't need more shadowing unless there's a specialty you really want to see, just FYI! 100 hours is more than enough. Your ECs look really good.

I did not do an SMP myself (did everything DIY), but I have heard secondhand that other nontraditionals with <3.0 uGPAs have had success in getting through autofilters by talking to the SMP programs directly. There is an active SMP thread going in the Nontraditionals forum, so you might check with the folks over there and see if anyone can share their insights.

Whippersnappers sure do type fast.

 

[MidwestOddOne]

You don't need more shadowing unless there's a specialty you really want to see, just FYI! 100 hours is more than enough. Your ECs look really good.

I did not do an SMP myself (did everything DIY), but I have heard secondhand that other nontraditionals with <3.0 uGPAs have had success in getting through autofilters by talking to the SMP programs directly. There is an active SMP thread going in the Nontraditionals forum, so you might check with the folks over there and see if anyone can share their insights.

It's really just this pesky freshman year of college from over 7 years ago. If I were to not include it, my GPA would hold at a 3.1, but I understand that that is not an option.

 

[MidwestOddOne]

You don't need more shadowing unless there's a specialty you really want to see, just FYI! 100 hours is more than enough. Your ECs look really good.

I did not do an SMP myself (did everything DIY), but I have heard secondhand that other nontraditionals with <3.0 uGPAs have had success in getting through autofilters by talking to the SMP programs directly. There is an active SMP thread going in the Nontraditionals forum, so you might check with the folks over there and see if anyone can share their insights.

If you don't mind my asking, did you take the GRE? My advisor advised that taking the GRE and doing well may add another data point for positive consideration.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Whippersnappers sure do type fast.

I am smack in the middle of dedicated, so I am both overly caffeinated and heavily procrastinating on my Step 1 studying. I'd much rather chat with you all than do my outstanding 400 Anki reviews + UWorld block on a Friday afternoon 😛

 

[gyngyn]

I am smack in the middle of dedicated, so I am a both overly caffeinated and heavily procrastinating on my Step 1 studying. I'd much rather chat with you than do my outstanding 400 Anki reviews + UWorld block on a Friday afternoon 😛

You (and all my second years!) have my sympathies.
You got this.

 

[gyngyn]

If you don't mind my asking, did you take the GRE? My advisor advised that taking the GRE and doing well may add another data point for positive consideration.

This will not help for med school.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

If you don't mind my asking, did you take the GRE? My advisor advised that taking the GRE and doing well may add another data point for positive consideration.

No, definitely not. I have never heard of this being a viable strategy. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think medical schools really care at all about the GRE.... unless SMPs do and I'm just not familiar enough with the process. Sorry, I can't be of more assistance in this respect.

 

[MidwestOddOne]

This will not help for med school.

Sorry, should've clarified. The GRE as a datapoint for SMP entry only.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

[shaking my head multiple times at the advisor, though this person may have more information that guided that advice than we have here.]

I hope you introduce yourself to the ones who post in the non-traditional forum if you have not done so already. We'll straighten out this confusion quickly enough.

Then search for and read @Goro 's guide to reinvention.

 

[MidwestOddOne]

[shaking my head multiple times at the advisor, though this person may have more information that guided that advice than we have here.]

I hope you introduce yourself to the ones who post in the non-traditional forum if you have not done so already. We'll straighten out this confusion quickly enough.

Then search for and read @Goro 's guide to reinvention.

Have just read it, and I will post shortly.

 

[gyngyn]

Have just read it, and I will post shortly.

I can transfer this thread over there if you like.

 

[MidwestOddOne]

I can transfer this thread over there if you like.

If you would please. I'm really trying to figure out my process for the next couple months. I'd like to go for 2022 entry into an SMP, and set myself up for the 2023-2024 Cycle.

 

[MidwestOddOne]

Thanks for moving this. Does anyone have any experience with directly contacting SMP directors in Michigan, specifically the UMich SMP?