Am I doing enough?

[krodriguez]

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So last time around I was put on the alternate list at Tufts. When I called to do my why I wasn't accepted right away assessment they said I needed more clinical experience and to better show why I'm passionate about vet school in my application. So I found a vet to shadow but the problem is that so far it's only been 2 times, for 3 hours each time. I am shadowing a surgeon and apparently summer is the downtime for them, so they've been sending me home in the afternoons. I think by the time I apply again I'll have about 20 hours if this keeps up. SO my question is if I can write a better essay to show my passion, do you think this tiny bit of clinical experience will be enough for them? I am working full time so I don't think I can take on a second shadowing experience but if it comes down to it maybe I can find someone to shadow on Saturdays. I guess my main question is how much time do you think would be enough?

 

[sofficat]

So this is what you have to do- quit your current job and get a job at an animal hospital. Seriously. You are NEVER going to know what it is like to be a vet unless you are there working. Even if you shadow 40 hours a week, you aren't DOING it and you aren't INVOLVED. You're not working with clients, restraining patients, performing procedures, etc. No vet school will take you if you don't have experience IN THE FIELD. Watching doesn't really count.
Sorry to be harsh, but I believe 100% what I just said.
I think a HUGE reason why I got into vet school was because I had 5 years experience working as a tech in different animal hospitals.
Even if you are getting a giant pay cut by quitting your job- do it.
Good Luck.

 

[krodriguez]

So this is what you have to do- quit your current job and get a job at an animal hospital. Seriously. You are NEVER going to know what it is like to be a vet unless you are there working. Even if you shadow 40 hours a week, you aren't DOING it and you aren't INVOLVED. You're not working with clients, restraining patients, performing procedures, etc. No vet school will take you if you don't have experience IN THE FIELD. Watching doesn't really count.
Sorry to be harsh, but I believe 100% what I just said.
I think a HUGE reason why I got into vet school was because I had 5 years experience working as a tech in different animal hospitals.
Even if you are getting a giant pay cut by quitting your job- do it.
Good Luck.

I guess I should have been more specific. I do have animal experience I do research right now so I have thousands of hours with laboratory animals. It's just the clinical setting where I am lacking experience. I'm not sure if this makes a difference but it is probably important that I should include that so people understand my background a little better.

 

[ylrebmik]

Thats actually what I would suggest too.

I'm not in the same position yet but shadowing isnt going to do a lot. At least around here...shadowing is something someone does when they are just thinking about going into the field and to see what its like...not a definite plan.

Like any college, i think you need something to make you stand out. Just Shadowing puts you on the lower end of the pole. Pretty much everyone going into the field (and gets in) will have shadowed, done a ton of volunteer work, written a strong essay, and worked directly with the animals. Try to find something that would shoot you up to "wow that makes her stand out" or at least get to where everyone else is. If I have learned anything on this forum is that experience seems to be the most important factor. 🙂 Good Luck.

you posted the same time as me so ill just edit... : i think clinic would be very important. if you know what exact field you want to into (small, large, etc) and you can find somewhere to work that incorporates that...that would be ideal for you. I guess i've never worked with lab animals before... but i think the two would be completely different experiences so you should be "well rounded" when you come in. 🙂

 

[sofficat]

i think clinic would be very important. if you know what exact field you want to into (small, large, etc) and you can find somewhere to work that incorporates that...that would be ideal for you. I guess i've never worked with lab animals before... but i think the two would be completely different experiences so you should be "well rounded" when you come in. 🙂

I think clinical experience is very impt. It is wonderful that you have 1000s of hours with animal research, but isn't that limited in respect to animal contact and multiple species (i've never done research before so i really don't know)?
Either way, I still rec. getting a tech/assistant job at an animal hsp.

 

[rexosaurus]

I think clinical experience is very impt. It is wonderful that you have 1000s of hours with animal research, but isn't that limited in respect to animal contact and multiple species (i've never done research before so i really don't know)?
Either way, I still rec. getting a tech/assistant job at an animal hsp.

no, it is not limited in respect to animal contact and multiple species

 

[StealthDog]

FWIW, I applied and was accepted to the U of MN with relatively little clinical experience. I had a semester's worth of interning at a clinic, but didn't do much more than shadow. I think I made up for it with a wide range of other animal experience, including volunteering in a wildlife rehab center, volunteering with a therapeutic horseback riding program, wildlife field research, etc.

I'm not saying it's the way to go, but it is possible to get accepted without having been employed by a clinic. Are you planning on going into lab animal medicine?

 

[pressmom]

First of all, let me applaud your hours of research experience. I think a lot of people, including me, are lacking in that area as evidenced by several of these posts. But a large part of your 4th year (and possibly your 3rd, depending on the school) will be spent in clinics, so they want to know that you will swim and not sink during this time. If you're going to make a go of this, you have to up your hours fast. This may mean getting creative and picking up a short-term second job (or a long shadow--although this would be less desirable, as people have said) at an emergency clinic overnight a couple of days a week. You can do it around your job (hopefully) and that's their busy time, so you'll get a lot of action. Do you have vacation time accrued at your job? I took 2 weeks off and shadow full-time with an equine vet, so I got 100 hours experience in just 2 weeks. That could be another possibility if you find a willing vet. Just some thoughts...

 

[cyrille104]

I think clinical experience is very impt. It is wonderful that you have 1000s of hours with animal research, but isn't that limited in respect to animal contact and multiple species (i've never done research before so i really don't know)?
Either way, I still rec. getting a tech/assistant job at an animal hsp.

It CAN be limited, but it depends exactly what you're doing - each research experience is different. However, the largest part of my experience was research as well, and it just doesn't show you the whole spectrum of veterinary care. I agree with what has been said - especially since 4 months have already come and gone since decisions were made at Tufts. I personally would go for 400 hours, because that always seemed like the magic number to me when getting a new type of experience. That's only 10 weeks of full time tech work at a clinic, although they'll probably want you to work longer if you're a tech as opposed to volunteering - but if you can do that soon, you can get that done by Nov. 1 (Tufts app deadline). Maybe you could also volunteer part time at both a shelter and a clinic. Of course this is assuming that you don't have another job... Anyway, whichever way you go, good luck

 

[kate_g]

I do research right now so I have thousands of hours with laboratory animals. It's just the clinical setting where I am lacking experience.

I had a similar situation, almost entirely research experience. I shadowed in private practice the summer before applying, had 66 hours on the application, and got in. BUT... I was very clear in my application that research was my ultimate goal. I'm sure it was obvious that I did the shadowing gig just to look like I had private practice exposure, and I actually admitted as much in some of my interviews. If your application says "this research thing has been great, but my actual career goal is private practice" then I agree with others that actually working (or volunteering) in the private practice setting is going to be key for you, because all the research experience in the world can't tell you that you'll be happy working for clients, on owned animals.

Now, one other possible issue. If you're basically a vet tech in a research lab - *doing* the physical exams, blood draws, injections, surgeries, or whatever else might be part of the research protocol - then your work *is* clinical and you should be clear about that in your app. But if you're the sort of research tech who logs observations, helps out with literature searches, and orders supplies, then your experience really isn't clinical. In that case, what you need is hands-on clinical experience and where it comes from might be less important. Rather than quitting your current job and starting entry-level at a clinic (which probably also won't actually get you much "clinical" experience in the next year), you could quit the shadowing gig and find a shelter with an in-house clinic that you could volunteer in. You'll probably get to do more stuff right off the bat and it will be clinical even if it's not private practice.

I guess what I'm saying is that whether shadowing is "enough" depends to a large extent on exactly what you're lacking (private practice exposure vs. clinical involvement) and exactly how your career goals are expressed in your application.

Oh, and... Even if your ultimate goal is research, 20 hours is pretty slim on the shadowing. Try to find a busier clinic so you don't get sent home. And find something to do on Saturdays. (You'll be pretty angry at yourself if you don't get in the second time just because you wanted to keep your Saturdays to yourself...)

 

[sofficat]

The only beef I have with volunteering is that you RARELY get to do the fun stuff (blood draws, catheters, even restraining). At least all the experience my friends have had and the people we have come in who volunteer is limited. Most places won't even let you touch an animal if you are just a volunteer b/c of legal issues. If you can find a volunteer place that will let you really be involved, great... but I think that might be very difficult.

What aspect of vet med are you interested in? That is very important, too, esp if you already know. (i don't know exactly what i want to do as a vet)

 

[kate_g]

Most places won't even let you touch an animal if you are just a volunteer b/c of legal issues.

This is very true of private practice clinics, because they're working with owned animals and of course no client is going to want to find out that Fluffy has a huge hematoma because they let some volunteer practice her first blood draw.

This is why I'm a big advocate of shelters. And in this case, I think worse is actually better. The ASPCA in NYC can afford to hire full-time vets and techs, and their volunteers probably don't do much more than clean cages. You want the scrappiest low-budget local operation you can find (that is big enough to actually do their own treatments and blood draws of course). "My" shelter usually scheduled two techs per shift, but on shifts when I was volunteering they often only scheduled one other tech. So I actually saved them quite a bit of money and they were more than happy to train me and put me to work.

 

[Spartanvet4cows]

Most of my "clinical" experience was shadowing a large animal vet. I never had experience actually working at a clinic. I did a lot of research and some shadowing at a small animal clinic as well (64 hours). My small animal experience is VERY limited....unfortunately this will probably bite me in the butt when clinics come around. If you have any interest in large animal, try to find an ambulatory practice that allows ride-alongs. I got to vaccinate calves, practice rectal palpation, learn restraint, assist with surgeries. When you're riding with a large animal vet they're more likely to let you help because usually they need it. I also volunteered at a shelter in high school. Since I come from a podunk town, they don't even have a vet. I got to draw blood, do heartworm tests, etc.
My research was actually helpful too because I got to place jugular catheters in dairy cows and give injections, see to their day to day care, etc. I think you should definitely find a shelter as has already been suggested. You'll definitely get more hands on experience that way. When I shadowed with the small animal vet I was allowed to restrain and assist with certain things, but this was a clinic out of her basement and it was a really small clinic. I think I'm going to see if I can get some volunteer time in our teaching hospital just so that I'm not so inept when clinics come around.

 

[ri23]

All of my small animal clinical experience was shadowing experience. I actually think that volunteering is not looked down upon. From my experience you actually get to spend more time with the vet and observing their job while shadowing as opposed to running around cleaning rooms, putting in charges etc. I would suggest finding a vet that will let you volunteer more and get more hours. Make sure that it is a vet willing to teach and answer questions. If you find a vet that is really good at explaining things and going over various aspects of the practice it will show in your interview and I doubt they will care that you never were in a paid position in a practice.

As for your research experience, that is fantastic and vet schools really look at that. Just try and expand your breadth of experience by looking into as many other fields as possible. Good luck!

 

[cyrille104]

Most places won't even let you touch an animal if you are just a volunteer b/c of legal issues.

That's true, but my vet let me draft up a release of liability agreement. After it passed by the lawyer, they let me work w/ the animals. If it comes to that, just look up a release of liability online for pretty much anything, find the longest one, and change the wording to match the job. 😀👍

 

[polo vet]

i agree with what has beeen said. i have worked two summers at a small animal clinic and never got to do the fun stuff. But by actually working at the practice, i got a feel of how veterinary clinics work and that it is ight for me. But the vet i shadow at school (4-6 hrs/week the last two years), says he would rather students shawdow because then they can actually watch the surgeries adn procedures, adn he does not have ot make them clean. I have had the opportunity to do much more of the "fun" stuff with him. It also might be because he is mixed animal vet in a small town so i go on lots of ride alongs with him and feel like he really wnats to teach me. But i alos got to see fun orthopedic small animla surgeries (he would call when an especially good one is scheduled). So if you are in a rural area maybe look into wokring with a mixed animal vet. And the thing about what type of research is alos a good point. i am doing research this summer but i work with a vet most of the time and do his tech work (even get to assist in laproscopic surgery). So if you are doing research like that emphasize its clinincal nature and the species you have worked with. Also if you own your own animals and/or have unique husbandry skills (bc you have worked with a particular species alot) mention that as well. good luck!!!!!!!!! i am applying this year as well to tufts (among others)

 

[kate_g]

That's true, but my vet let me draft up a release of liability agreement. After it passed by the lawyer, they let me work w/ the animals.

Heh... My understanding is it's usually the vet's concern for their liability to *clients*, not to the student, that prevents them from letting you do anything. Like, they let you do a blood draw and you blow out the vein. They let you restrain and a cat escapes and gets stuck under the washing machine. They let you give an injection and the animal has a bad reaction - in no way actually your fault, but you can bet if an angry client found out that an untrained volunteer gave the shot they'd try to make a big deal of it and it would be a huge headache for the vet. (One of the big reasons you get to do more stuff volunteering at a shelter - the animals don't have owners!)

I suppose if you're talking about large animals (domestic or zoo) then I could see the student getting hurt being a more pressing concern, and an "I won't sue you" affidavit being useful.

 

[hirdDVM]

Along with legal issues, there is usually an insurance concern as well. I believe it was about one week before I was really allowed to handle an animal due to insurance reasons (e.g. If I got hurt on the job the vet's practice insurance should cover it) but that is normal.

 

[Monkey85]

I didn't read all the posts so I am not sure what everybody told you, but here is my advice/experience. I worked for 2 years in a primate research lab. I had a very hands-on job and did anesthesia on the monkeys, drew blood and a tons of other things techs do in a clinical setting. To get small animal experience I shadowed at a 24 hour emergency clinic on the weekends. I only had about 200 hrs in a true clinical setting, but had 1700 hours in the lab under the supervision of a vet tech, a lab animal vet, and a MD and I got into 2 schools. Working in a clinic won't neccesarily get you into school and I don't think you need to quit your current job. Maybe find a place to shadow on the weekend. Also maybe consider lab animal medicine and focus on that in your essay/app. since thats where most of your hours are. Remember there are tons of different settings a vet can work in and a small animal clinic is not the only one. Good luck!

 

[philomycus]

They HAVE to come up with a reason they didn't take you. They HAVE to. DO the best you can when you can. They have way more applicants that spots. People that get accepted the 1st time around have EXCELLENT credentials, all across the board.

I can't quit my job and work full time as a tech. I'm doing what I can when I can. If you can't, then do the best you can, and justify it,

I'm 33 and I know waiting one more year, or two (but I hope not 2) won't kill me.

Besides, this year, I have my new avatar! AHHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[rexosaurus]

that's right philomycus, you're a shoe-in for next year! 😀

 

[ckgilabert]

I am currently volunteering at a small animal hospital and they let me do practically everything. im going to learn to intubate and administer anesthesia and catheters and all that stuff....but im volunteering.

do i have to have an actual job there? they've offerred me a job, but i dont want to be committed to work there and im going to start school soon and i'm not sure if i can still volunteer there because of everything i'll be doing.

thanks!

*** I will not be intubating or administering anesthesia....but will learn how the RVT does it at least.

 

[mtrl1]

I am currently volunteering at a small animal hospital and they let me do practically everything. im going to learn to intubate and administer anesthesia and catheters and all that stuff....but im volunteering.

Uhhh...ckgilabert, not to rain on your great opportunity, but unless you're an RVT, in CA it is illegal for you to induce anesthesia, even under direct supervision. This isn't your fault, it's the vet. If they're going to let you do this stuff, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE learn everything you can first; know every single part of the anesthesia machine, how it works, classes of drugs, stages and planes of anesthesia, how to chart, and read through a vet anesthesia textbook (VSPN has a lot of great info and it's 100% free). Anesthesia is not a skill to be taken lightly, and heaven forbid something goes wrong and the owner wants information, your vet could lose their liscense. Sorry to be harsh, but please be careful.

 

[chris03333]

Uhhh...ckgilabert, not to rain on your great opportunity, but unless you're an RVT, in CA it is illegal for you to induce anesthesia, even under direct supervision. This isn't your fault, it's the vet. If they're going to let you do this stuff, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE learn everything you can first; know every single part of the anesthesia machine, how it works, classes of drugs, stages and planes of anesthesia, how to chart, and read through a vet anesthesia textbook (VSPN has a lot of great info and it's 100% free). Anesthesia is not a skill to be taken lightly, and heaven forbid something goes wrong and the owner wants information, your vet could lose their liscense. Sorry to be harsh, but please be careful.

This is true. It is also illegal for you to intubate.

 

[ckgilabert]

i double checked with a girl who's working there...turns out that she is an RVT. i thought she was a college student. but yeah, she told me that i cant do that stuff either. i totally thought i was going to be able to do that stuff. but yeah, i learned to do cytologies and helped prep for surgery (shaving and getting the surgical packs ready) a couple of weeks ago. i feel totally ******ed because i thought i was going to be able to do extra stuff, thank god you guys said stuff and i didnt look like a freak in front of the doctors expecting them to let me do stuff. lol

anyway, do you guys think its ok to stay as a volunteer? i know a bunch of you got LOR's from employers, would it look better from vet schools if i actually worked there, to make it seem like iwas serious? or is it ok if i just volunteer there?

 

[mtrl1]

This is true. It is also illegal for you to intubate.

Not as sure about this, Chris... If a veterinarian induces anesthesia via injection, the animal is technically already induced before intubation would occur...

Or, if it was an animal being maintained on a mask and then intubated later...
Or, in an emergency situation with an animal in respiratory distress...

Nothing in the legislature specifies intubation as far as I know. Starting in 2012, anesthetic induction and *monitoring* will be restricted to RVTs.

As for volunteering vs. working, I'd totally work...they're going to pay you for stuff you do already! As long as you are upfront with your school plans and number of hours you're willing to work, what do you have to lose?

 

[chris03333]

Not as sure about this, Chris... If a veterinarian induces anesthesia via injection, the animal is technically already induced before intubation would occur...

Or, if it was an animal being maintained on a mask and then intubated later...
Or, in an emergency situation with an animal in respiratory distress...

Nothing in the legislature specifies intubation as far as I know. Starting in 2012, anesthetic induction and *monitoring* will be restricted to RVTs.

As for volunteering vs. working, I'd totally work...they're going to pay you for stuff you do already! As long as you are upfront with your school plans and number of hours you're willing to work, what do you have to lose?

Well my license is for CA so I read this:
http://www.vmb.ca.gov/rvttasks.htm

Section 2069 is the only part which covers establishing an airway, and it specifies an RVT.

I may be wrong, but would not bet my license on it.😕

 

[mtrl1]

Ok, my bad, you're right about intubation for emergency situations

(although it's interesting, unlike the upper part where it says unregistered assistants are prohibited from performing xyz, it says for the emergency procedures that registered vet techs may perform...and nothing about UA's being prohibited. Yes I'm splitting hairs, but the wording is odd)

But I still think it's legal until 2012 for UA's to intubate following anesthetic induction by a DVM/RVT

 

[kate_g]

anyway, do you guys think its ok to stay as a volunteer? i know a bunch of you got LOR's from employers, would it look better from vet schools if i actually worked there, to make it seem like iwas serious?

Hm. I dunno that working there would make you look more serious than volunteering (I mean, if you're willing to do the same work and *not* get paid, that might make you look *more* serious...). I'd think your main concern should be what kind of experience you'll get. If you'll be able to do more stuff as an employee, then let them pay you. If you'll be allowed to do all the same stuff as a volunteer, I can totally see the attraction of the no-commitment situation (I was offered a paid position at the animal shelter I volunteered at, and turned it down for the same reason). If they'd require a certain minimum commitment of hours as an employee, but as a volunteer you could spend a little time there and also keep time open for getting other experiences (a large animal ride-along here, a day shadowing with a specialist there...) then that might ultimately be better as far as getting varied experience and trying out different fields.

 

[cubs11]

but as a volunteer you could spend a little time there and also keep time open for getting other experiences (a large animal ride-along here, a day shadowing with a specialist there...) then that might ultimately be better as far as getting varied experience and trying out different fields.

this is what i've been told by several vets...

 

[chris03333]

Ok, my bad, you're right about intubation for emergency situations

(although it's interesting, unlike the upper part where it says unregistered assistants are prohibited from performing xyz, it says for the emergency procedures that registered vet techs may perform...and nothing about UA's being prohibited. Yes I'm splitting hairs, but the wording is odd)

But I still think it's legal until 2012 for UA's to intubate following anesthetic induction by a DVM/RVT

Trust me when I say you do not want to split hairs when it comes to the CA state board😳

 

[cyrille104]

Trust me when I say you do not want to split hairs when it comes to the CA state board😳

 

[krodriguez]

Thanks for the suggestions that everyone had. I do have a little more variety of experience already besides the research. I have worked at a shelter and a zoo as well so I am not completely pigeonholed into research. I think when they told me more clinical experience they were thinking that I should see how a vet's office operates since I've only worked in other settings. The animal experience I have involves dosing animals, IV, IP, SC, PO, surgeries, and tissue collection so I am physically working with the animals. I am interested in pursuing research or lab animal medicine so I am hoping they just wanted me to get a feel for clinical work. But I also know they said this since the majority of my future classmates will have a lot more clinical experience than me so I will be at a disadvantage. Unfortunately since I'm an older student with a family and a mortgage I won't be able to quit my job and become a tech. I'm hoping to hang on to my salary as long as possible before I am finally able to go to school. BUT I definitely agree with everyone that I need to step up my hours if I am serious about this. I think I'm going to hang on to my shadowing position because the surgeries are so fun to watch 🙂. (and since it's only taking up a measly 3 hours each time.) But I'm going to also find another place to volunteer that will allow me actual hands-on experience and a lot more hours. Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions!