Am I going crazy?

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StormingWynn

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Lately, I've been questioning reality. Anyone else feel this way? It's as if I'm in a permanent trans. All this school stuff and personal matters that I'm going through have been rather harsh. I feel as if I'm not good enough, not worthy, not anything, not even me sometimes and at other times I'm perfectly fine. No, I'm not a troll. I just want feedback as to if anyone has anything constructive to say. It feels really weird. I think all this med school stuff is affecting my brain. :(

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talk to someone at your school. most colleges have some sort of institutional support system.
 
talk to someone at your school. most colleges have some sort of institutional support system.

I'm scared of what will happen if I go. That's why I'm hesitant as to going to a counselor.
 
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Lately, I've been questioning reality. Anyone else feel this way? It's as if I'm in a permanent trans. ou arAll this school stuff and personal matters that I'm going through have been rather harsh. I feel as if I'm not good enough, not worthy, not anything, not even me sometimes and at other times I'm perfectly fine. No, I'm not a troll. I just want feedback as to if anyone has anything constructive to say. It feels really weird. I think all this med school stuff is affecting my brain. :(

you are just becoming an adult and trying to learn how to handle it all as you mature. I was there before.....you will figure it out and all will be fine!!

It gets easier and better somewhat!! :eek:
 
How can we be constructive if you don't give us more details? Are you just depressed? Are you questioning the meaning of our culture, the meaning of life? Or is the line between fantasy and reality starting to blur?
 
Lately, I've been questioning reality. Anyone else feel this way? It's as if I'm in a permanent trans. All this school stuff and personal matters that I'm going through have been rather harsh. I feel as if I'm not good enough, not worthy, not anything, not even me sometimes and at other times I'm perfectly fine. No, I'm not a troll. I just want feedback as to if anyone has anything constructive to say. It feels really weird. I think all this med school stuff is affecting my brain. :(
What have you been doing to question reality hmmm? :D
I agree with J Dub, its a part of becoming that beautiful butterfly you were destined to be ever since a wee pupa.
 
This. I think being told I had issues would be more detrimental than if I remained silent.
lots of people find it very relieving when they learn there is an solid reason for what is happening to them or for how they feel.
 
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Just find some friends to talk to. Preferably not pre-health students. Find your random english/philosophy major and talk to him/her about reality.
:) you'll be fine
 
Everyone feels inadequate at some point. If you don't feel comfortable talking to a counselor at school, you could meet with one who isn't associate with school. It will help to talk to someone....
 
Go talk to the counselor. That's what they're there for. They do not call you crazy unless you stab them (so, ya know, avoid doing that). It's their job to guide you through such mental ordeals. You could also talk to a good friend or a family member one on one. Maybe even talk to just an okay friend. Perhaps after the conversation s/he will become a good friend.

Although I have answered questions like this in the past, the fact is that these forums are not the appropriate place for such general questions. More importantly they are not the best source of advice since even if you can give us lots of details, no one here will be able to help as much as someone who can see you or has seen you in person. Mods have said as much ad nauseum.

Talk to someone face to face. Start with personal acquaintances. If they can't help, then move to professional.

If you can provide some insight into your thought processes maybe I'll be able to give some input.
 
Sleep on it for a little bit, at least until the stress of this semester is over. If it doesn't go away, confide in a close friend. If it gets really serious, seek professional help.
 
How can we be constructive if you don't give us more details? Are you just depressed? Are you questioning the meaning of our culture, the meaning of life? Or is the line between fantasy and reality starting to blur?


I think I might be, but if feeling like this your entire life is called being depressed then yes. No, not culture, but reality in a whole. I just can't grasp the idea that we are here because we just are, you know? I just don't get it and it has been taring my mind apart since I don't know when.

Are you just stressed and trying out to deal or is there more like an underlying depression, etc.?

Things get worse or better as time progresses.

What have you been doing to question reality hmmm? :D
I agree with J Dub, its a part of becoming that beautiful butterfly you were destined to be ever since a wee pupa.

No nothing, I'm not a druggie type of person.

Go talk to the counselor. That's what they're there for. They do not call you crazy unless you stab them (so, ya know, avoid doing that). It's their job to guide you through such mental ordeals. You could also talk to a good friend or a family member one on one. Maybe even talk to just an okay friend. Perhaps after the conversation s/he will become a good friend.

Although I have answered questions like this in the past, the fact is that these forums are not the appropriate place for such general questions. More importantly they are not the best source of advice since even if you can give us lots of details, no one here will be able to help as much as someone who can see you or has seen you in person. Mods have said as much ad nauseum.

Talk to someone face to face. Start with personal acquaintances. If they can't help, then move to professional.

If you can provide some insight into your thought processes maybe I'll be able to give some input.

Thanks, I'll consider your input.

lemme guess...ur havin doubts about if u can really finish/pass these pre-med classes rite? u dont know if ur gonna make it to med school, and getting out of med school seems like even impossibler.

well, ur not alone. im so glad im not the only one who feels like that sometimes.

the truth is that it's(school is) not gonna get any easier anytime soon. classes will be ten times tougher. and your future professors will be a thousand times crappier. you will have to teach everything to yourself. so start now by picking up that book and reading it instead of listening to the crappy teacher or daydreaming.

i used to be like you, hoping for an easy way out, but u gotta create the path.

Actually, no. I do really good in my classes. I just don't see the point. The life I was expecting is not as good as I once thought. The only thing that keeps me from totally excluding myself from this world is the drive to find answers to the questions that run rampant in my mind.
 
Actually, no. I do really good in my classes. I just don't see the point. The life I was expecting is not as good as I once thought. The only thing that keeps me from totally excluding myself from this world is the drive to find answers to the questions that run rampant in my mind.

This.
I was like this at the end of last spring. I was seriously considering dropping out and becoming a vagabond to see the world... and then find a nice spot to wither away into death.
This was back in May. Since that period I have been constantly buzzing about my thoughts trying to find a structure to them. In time I found that structure and I think that I have only begun building on it.
So, I think that with time you will have the answers to your problems. I don't know if you want to stress out over your problems right now though. Maybe you need a proper vacation?
 
Just find some friends to talk to. Preferably not pre-health students. Find your random english/philosophy major and talk to him/her about reality.
:) you'll be fine

Do NOT try to talk to a philosophy major about reality! :laugh:

OP, often I get those same thoughts when I'm stuck in the same routine so long that it starts to become meaningless. It helps me to do something spontaneous so that I don't feel like I'm trapped. Go to a random place you've never been before but always wanted to see, or go skydiving, or hell, fly to Vegas for a few days over break if you can. Anything you wouldn't ordinarily do.

And sometimes you just have to shift your basic thinking. Instead of waking up saying, "I have to go to class" or "I have to go volunteer" think to yourself, "I choose to go to class" or "I choose to go volunteer." Sounds stupid, but it works for me. Accepting your actions as your own choices often helps you figure out whether your decisions are right.
 
You are not going crazy. You are just confused. I used to feel the same way as you do. I just wanted to give everything up and..be happy.. I kind of slacked off for a while, and I realized that I was being stupid. I thought I would be happy if I was like other non premeds, doing other stuff. But I was wrong. I went to the hospital and volunteered. I talked to my parents, my friends, and whoever I could talk to. I helped a lot of patients and this is what I want to do! It is totally worth all the efforts. It is! :)
 
Lately, I've been questioning reality. Anyone else feel this way? It's as if I'm in a permanent trans. All this school stuff and personal matters that I'm going through have been rather harsh. I feel as if I'm not good enough, not worthy, not anything, not even me sometimes and at other times I'm perfectly fine. No, I'm not a troll. I just want feedback as to if anyone has anything constructive to say. It feels really weird. I think all this med school stuff is affecting my brain. :(

Second.

Definitely feeling a divide from reality. Looking at the notes for a final I feel like after the test the professor is gonna pop out and say "Hah, you actually believed there was something called a polysome! Thats ridiculous! Psyche." Maybe a major where you're studying a world that affects your own but you cant really visualize messes with your understand of reality...
 
All this school stuff and personal matters that I'm going through have been rather harsh.
I do really good in my classes.
So.. school troubles.. yes or no?

I just can't grasp the idea that we are here because we just are, you know?
Then develop your own hypothesis for how things have come to be. I tend to think life is a glitch in the universe, kind of like how we see viruses as glitches in life. Well, I see them like that anyway :D. I mean, goddamn! How the hell did they get here?

But whatever you do, don't look to the DAMN Bible for answers!
 
Just talk to someone you trust, or talk it out with a stranger, it might work...If not, go seek help.

Dont be scared if you are labeled as having "issues", everyone does, we are just humans.

Pray =)
 
But whatever you do, don't look to the DAMN Bible for answers!

I am rather anti-this advice. Also worth noting: I am not religious.

When I was a child, my parents provided me with the "Holy Books" and information comprehensible for young people of every major world religion. They told me I was free to believe or not believe whatever I wanted of it, and I couldn't be more thankful that they awarded me that freedom.

If the OP wants to search for answers, any "Bible" (The Holy Bible, The Qu'ran, The Torah, etc.) is a reasonable place to look. Also note that I take my own beliefs from such books as "What Dreams May Come", "Lord of the Rings", "1984", and even seemingly trivial ones like the "My Teacher is an Alien" series. There are parts of my beliefs that are influenced by Dr. Seuss, Randy Pausch, and Roald Dahl.

I think most people on this site are smart enough to decide what they want to believe. And the permission to believe what you want to believe is one of the most exhilarating things in the world.

Hell, maybe you'd do well reading a holy text or two. Anti-religious sentiment is ugly, regardless of where the spectator stands on the debate.
 
How much caffeine is in your body and how much sleep are you getting. Sometimes you can be so spun out and delirious from lack of sleep and too many stimulants, that everything starts to seem kind of chaotic and not make sense. :laugh: This should be cured with a looong night of sleep. If your feelings of depression continue you might have to go see someone to talk to to make things easier on yourself.
 
Sounds like you're having one of those identity/reality mini crises. Just ride it out for now with some kind of diversion and know that eventually you'll find answers. You're not going crazy; you're a *THINKING* man. :thumbup:
 
I am rather anti-this advice. Also worth noting: I am not religious.

When I was a child, my parents provided me with the "Holy Books" and information comprehensible for young people of every major world religion. They told me I was free to believe or not believe whatever I wanted of it, and I couldn't be more thankful that they awarded me that freedom.

If the OP wants to search for answers, any "Bible" (The Holy Bible, The Qu'ran, The Torah, etc.) is a reasonable place to look. Also note that I take my own beliefs from such books as "What Dreams May Come", "Lord of the Rings", "1984", and even seemingly trivial ones like the "My Teacher is an Alien" series. There are parts of my beliefs that are influenced by Dr. Seuss, Randy Pausch, and Roald Dahl.

I think most people on this site are smart enough to decide what they want to believe. And the permission to believe what you want to believe is one of the most exhilarating things in the world.

Hell, maybe you'd do well reading a holy text or two. Anti-religious sentiment is ugly, regardless of where the spectator stands on the debate.
Uh.. I think you're referring more to morals than to reality. I hope you don't look to Dr. Seuss to help you understand reality, just as I hope you don't look to any "holy" book. I'm going to operate on the assumption you misunderstood me and label your response irrelevant until further notice.

Reading official religious accounts of reality does nothing but infuriates me and motivates me to crusade against their respective followers. The more I forget what is actually in those evil documents, the more accepting I am of believers. Just talking about it makes me thirsty for emotional blood! :annoyed: It should be a crime to perpetuate that nonsense.. The only clause that separates being religious from schizophrenia is the "considered socially normal" one, which I think is complete garbage. If it's considered socially normal to be depressed all the time, is it suddenly no longer a disorder? Give me a break.. It's just more arbitrary nonsense that signifies religious influence on science.
 
Lately, I've been questioning reality. Anyone else feel this way? It's as if I'm in a permanent trans. All this school stuff and personal matters that I'm going through have been rather harsh. I feel as if I'm not good enough, not worthy, not anything, not even me sometimes and at other times I'm perfectly fine. No, I'm not a troll. I just want feedback as to if anyone has anything constructive to say. It feels really weird. I think all this med school stuff is affecting my brain. :(

I'm like this often...I've been getting better lately though!

Whenever you tell yourself something along those lines, force yourself to stfu. You need to be nice to yourself, it'll make you happier. :) As for "questioning reality" I dunno. What exactly do you mean by that?

But to be perfectly honest, you just sound burnt. Just push yourself to get through finals, and then enjoy some time off. And do something nice for yourself once you get there.
 
You are not going crazy. You are just confused. I used to feel the same way as you do. I just wanted to give everything up and..be happy.. I kind of slacked off for a while, and I realized that I was being stupid. I thought I would be happy if I was like other non premeds, doing other stuff. But I was wrong. I went to the hospital and volunteered. I talked to my parents, my friends, and whoever I could talk to. I helped a lot of patients and this is what I want to do! It is totally worth all the efforts. It is! :)

Thanks.. :)

How much caffeine is in your body and how much sleep are you getting. Sometimes you can be so spun out and delirious from lack of sleep and too many stimulants, that everything starts to seem kind of chaotic and not make sense. :laugh: This should be cured with a looong night of sleep. If your feelings of depression continue you might have to go see someone to talk to to make things easier on yourself.

Actually, I hardly drink coffee/caffeine products or very minimal. 12 onze Soda everyday or other day and I get over 8 hours of sleep everyday. I hate waking up in the morning no matter what time or how long I've been sleeping. It's as if I don't want to wake up anymore. I just want to continue sleeping forever.


I'm like this often...I've been getting better lately though!

Whenever you tell yourself something along those lines, force yourself to stfu. You need to be nice to yourself, it'll make you happier. :) As for "questioning reality" I dunno. What exactly do you mean by that?

But to be perfectly honest, you just sound burnt. Just push yourself to get through finals, and then enjoy some time off. And do something nice for yourself once you get there.

Maybe, but it's not like if I've poured everything into my finals. I've only studied for maybe 1-2 hours per day.

When I say, I'm question reality, I mean that sometimes I wonder if this is even my body, if this is even me thinking. It's if I was watching my body in third person for a little while and then I revert to regular. It's kind of crazy. Sometimes I'll be driving and I won't remember I'm driving because I think it's sort of dream. It's crazy, but I don't get in car accidents, I drive normally but I don't think it's me driving. Get what I'm saying. Other times I'll stop everything I'm doing and just cry and cry. Other times I'll be doing something and I'll question myself if I'm sleeping or dreaming because what I'm doing doesn't seem real.
 
Hey, Storm, you know something that actually has made me happy for once lately? It sounds ridiculous, but I became a "Yes Man" lol. No joke. I'm normally a very inhibited person (low self-confidence/esteem), but I really feel good about myself just knowing that I'm ready to do anything. The movie takes it to the extreme, but through the whole thing, I was like "Man.. I really want to try this!"

I haven't been asked to do very many things yet, but I've agreed to go hang out at times I normally wouldn't, with people I normally wouldn't, doing things I normally wouldn't. I even danced in front of my class for a little bit (which was embarrasing). So far, things have always seemed to turn out for the better. And even if they don't, I'm prepared to write the activity off as a life experience and go on with things. Keep in mind, I have very few responsibilities (no job, EMT class required very little out-of-classroom thought and started late in the day). Also, I won't agree to something that might hurt myself or others. I might streak in someone's backyard in the middle of the night (I haven't been asked to do this), but I'm not going to streak through a neighborhood at any time..

When I say, I'm question reality, I mean that sometimes I wonder if this is even my body, if this is even me thinking. It's if I was watching my body in third person for a little while and then I revert to regular. It's kind of crazy. Sometimes I'll be driving and I won't remember I'm driving because I think it's sort of dream. It's crazy, but I don't get in car accidents, I drive normally but I don't think it's me driving. Get what I'm saying. Other times I'll stop everything I'm doing and just cry and cry. Other times I'll be doing something and I'll question myself if I'm sleeping or dreaming because what I'm doing doesn't seem real.
That's called "dissociation." I'm not a doctor (;)), but I think it's a normal symptom of depression. I know if I'm particularly depressed or otherwise lost in thought (or tired), I won't remember driving, or if I'm staring blankly, I might have feelings of dissociation.

Also, I personally think dissociation can be very healthy for helping to understand true reality, beyond social delusions.
 
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I think I might be, but if feeling like this your entire life is called being depressed then yes. No, not culture, but reality in a whole. I just can't grasp the idea that we are here because we just are, you know? I just don't get it and it has been taring my mind apart since I don't know when.


Sounds like my philosophy class, we just talk about how technology and media has ruined us and tricked us into believing that everything is so great but we are actually are extremely distressed and sad and have no home land connection to nature, and no meaning in life...it's a depressing class, but the only solution is to use technology, but know how to let it go whenever
 
Uh.. I think you're referring more to morals than to reality. I hope you don't look to Dr. Seuss to help you understand reality, just as I hope you don't look to any "holy" book. I'm going to operate on the assumption you misunderstood me and label your response irrelevant until further notice.

Reading official religious accounts of reality does nothing but infuriates me and motivates me to crusade against their respective followers. The more I forget what is actually in those evil documents, the more accepting I am of believers. Just talking about it makes me thirsty for emotional blood! :annoyed: It should be a crime to perpetuate that nonsense.. The only clause that separates being religious from schizophrenia is the "considered socially normal" one, which I think is complete garbage. If it's considered socially normal to be depressed all the time, is it suddenly no longer a disorder? Give me a break.. It's just more arbitrary nonsense that signifies religious influence on science.

The fact that you would label biblical texts as "evil documents" tells me you've never so much as read one. What is so evil about them? If you'd read any literature of the early to mid-twentieth century, you'd see a lot more evil in those books.

The Christian Bible? Is filled with stories and history. The Qu'ran? Poetry and art. I have only come across mentions of evil in these, all of which essentially equate to, "We think this is evil. You shouldn't be evil. So if you believe it too, maybe you shouldn't be doing this."

And if you start going on about what it says are sins, you have to understand that a lot of what they say are sins are more like..."pet peeves the writer had", aside from murder and adultery and stuff. Homosexuality is only mentioned in Leviticus, for example, along with "fabrics woven of two material" (like courderoy) and shaving.

And yes, I have taken certain beliefs about reality from the books I listed. Even Dr. Seuss. For example, I take a few of my beliefs from "Oh, the Places You'll Go!", among them: The Waiting Place (which I view as sort of the place we go when we dream or are in a coma/vegetative state)(see also the play "Our Town"). If you read anything with an open mind, you will find the answers to some question you have.

And frankly, your view of religion is horrifically offensive, but if it's what makes you happy, I'm not going to tell you it's wrong. But I do wonder what you will do when faced with religious patients or family members of patients who ask you to please pray with them for their loved one. It does happen.

Yes, religion sometimes keeps science from progressing too far. But it also can be helpful. People moan and whine about not being allowed to use stem cells, since certain religions view the practice of harvesting stem cells as similar to murder or abortion. However, this also reveals an enormous opportunistic gap: where else can we get stem cells? Can we find a way to manufacture them? There has been some success turning regular cells into stem cells (though not much), and if there is a breakthrough, there will never be a shortage for study and possibly eventual medical use. No one would bother to look if certain people weren't against it.

My parents taught me to believe what I wanted to believe, but they also told me that my beliefs have no greater value than anyone else's. I think it's true. My beliefs are no more 'correct' than a Muslim, a Christian, or even your mighty beliefs. The same is true in reverse.

So if you want to keep believing all you believe about religion, you go ahead. They're your beliefs, and there's no grand scale of "correctness" against which I could possibly judge them. Maybe, though, you should realize that disrespecting a fundamental part of someone's upbringing and beliefs isn't going to serve you well, since it's going to limit the amount of trust they put in you.

But again, believe what you want to believe.
 
The fact that you would label biblical texts as "evil documents" tells me you've never so much as read one. What is so evil about them? If you'd read any literature of the early to mid-twentieth century, you'd see a lot more evil in those books.

The Christian Bible? Is filled with stories and history. The Qu'ran? Poetry and art. I have only come across mentions of evil in these, all of which essentially equate to, "We think this is evil. You shouldn't be evil. So if you believe it too, maybe you shouldn't be doing this."

And if you start going on about what it says are sins, you have to understand that a lot of what they say are sins are more like..."pet peeves the writer had", aside from murder and adultery and stuff. Homosexuality is only mentioned in Leviticus, for example, along with "fabrics woven of two material" (like courderoy) and shaving.

And yes, I have taken certain beliefs about reality from the books I listed. Even Dr. Seuss. For example, I take a few of my beliefs from "Oh, the Places You'll Go!", among them: The Waiting Place (which I view as sort of the place we go when we dream or are in a coma/vegetative state)(see also the play "Our Town"). If you read anything with an open mind, you will find the answers to some question you have.

And frankly, your view of religion is horrifically offensive, but if it's what makes you happy, I'm not going to tell you it's wrong. But I do wonder what you will do when faced with religious patients or family members of patients who ask you to please pray with them for their loved one. It does happen.

Yes, religion sometimes keeps science from progressing too far. But it also can be helpful. People moan and whine about not being allowed to use stem cells, since certain religions view the practice of harvesting stem cells as similar to murder or abortion. However, this also reveals an enormous opportunistic gap: where else can we get stem cells? Can we find a way to manufacture them? There has been some success turning regular cells into stem cells (though not much), and if there is a breakthrough, there will never be a shortage for study and possibly eventual medical use. No one would bother to look if certain people weren't against it.

My parents taught me to believe what I wanted to believe, but they also told me that my beliefs have no greater value than anyone else's. I think it's true. My beliefs are no more 'correct' than a Muslim, a Christian, or even your mighty beliefs. The same is true in reverse.

So if you want to keep believing all you believe about religion, you go ahead. They're your beliefs, and there's no grand scale of "correctness" against which I could possibly judge them. Maybe, though, you should realize that disrespecting a fundamental part of someone's upbringing and beliefs isn't going to serve you well, since it's going to limit the amount of trust they put in you.

But again, believe what you want to believe.
Really? Is that what that fact tells you, after I just mentioned how I feel when I read them? That's strange..

The books are evil because they are the sole reason for so much unnecessary hate and prejudice, now and throughout history. No matter what the writers' intentions were, the leaders who have claimed possession of the text's meaning have transformed these "holy" books into book of evil deeds. Understanding that the credibility of any holy book is inherently compromised means that it is not appropriate to believe in its false account of reality. There is a higher value placed on the reality based on the scientific method. Don't forget that. It is very different from any faith-based fairy tale and definitely not equivalent.

The fact that you cited this "Waiting Place" as an example of how Dr. Seuss helps you understand reality tells me you are unwilling to admit when you're wrong. That's a shame.

"If you read anything with an open mind, you will find the answers to some question you have."

This really only applies to philosophical/metaphysical questions, maybe social questions. You can find those answers in nature, as well. If you study a leaf long enough, you just might "find the answers to some question you have." It's completely irrelevant to the argument and is attributed more to the act of reading (and the stimulation of critical thinking) than to the specific text. In other words, you could critically think, with no material at all, and still "find the answers to some questions you have."

That's nice that your parents gave you a choice about what to believe. For the record, my parents raised me as a Christian.

"Maybe, though, you should realize that disrespecting a fundamental part of someone's upbringing and beliefs isn't going to serve you well, since it's going to limit the amount of trust they put in you."

If by this, you mean they will judge my character, then that is their own flawed personality at work and is something I can't help. I believe it is immoral to allow people to perpetuate the belief in any faith-based religion. That is equivalent to perpetuating all of the evil deeds that come with the religious package. Many religious practices are, in my opinion, abusive, both mentally and physically, for adults and children. There's a reason why religious practices often take place behind closed doors. Would you condone child abuse* because people might "limit the amount of trust" people put in you if you didn't?

If by this, you mean they will judge my credibility, then that's their (IMO, misguided) choice. If they want to believe some god is punishing them and that I don't know what I'm talking about, why did they come see me in the first place?

*This was not specifically a reference to the sexual abuse accounts of Catholic priests, though those certainly apply.
 
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The books are evil because they are the sole reason for so much unnecessary hate and prejudice, now and throughout history.

They are also a reason for many good things in the world. While religious leaders have doubtlessly used the books and twisted their words to commit heinous acts, the books themselves are not evil and many people find philosophical inspiration from their pages. Those who use the books to justify committing evil are just reading what they want to believe into the words.

Furthermore, there are plenty of people who manage to commit evil acts perfectly well without the use of a religious book. For example, many, many more people commit sexual abuse who are not Catholic priests, and the priests that do commit those acts do not do so out of any justification they got from their religious books but from a weakness of morals that had nothing to do with their religion. It may make them a hypocrite, but honestly any person who claims to have good morals and then ignores them is a hypocrite; the religious are just an easier target for those claims.

Just as religious people certainly can't take the credit for all of the good morals and charity in the world, they certainly aren't responsible for all that is evil either, and certainly not everything they promote can be filed away as evil.
 
They are also a reason for many good things in the world. While religious leaders have doubtlessly used the books and twisted their words to commit heinous acts, the books themselves are not evil and many people find philosophical inspiration from their pages. Those who use the books to justify committing evil are just reading what they want to believe into the words.

Furthermore, there are plenty of people who manage to commit evil acts perfectly well without the use of a religious book. For example, many, many more people commit sexual abuse who are not Catholic priests, and the priests that do commit those acts do not do so out of any justification they got from their religious books but from a weakness of morals that had nothing to do with their religion. It may make them a hypocrite, but honestly any person who claims to have good morals and then ignores them is a hypocrite; the religious are just an easier target for those claims.

Just as religious people certainly can't take the credit for all of the good morals and charity in the world, they certainly aren't responsible for all that is evil either, and certainly not everything they promote can be filed away as evil.
You're right, and I would never make such an accusation. But like you said, it's a regional matter, heavily dependent on how the religious leaders in an area decide to interpret the text. Fortunately for me, those religious leaders claim to be the official and absolute interpreters of their god's word. The text is ambiguous, but they do such a good job of defining its meaning precisely. Even the least traditional, most modern, most accepting official interpretations still do more harm than good, in my opinion.

Just because good things have come from delusional people who believe the bible, doesn't mean those same good deeds wouldn't have come about in its absence; humans tend to be naturally charitable and good-natured. However, it is probable that the evil deeds committed in the name of the bible would not have come about in its absence. And the deeds that would still come about would probably never have lasted as long without biblical justification.

That's just my extremist argument, though. I think it's immoral on levels far more mild. The confusion it causes people, who undoubtedly realize that the text does not fit with their observed reality and have to make a choice to believe what they see or what they read/hear, has to be very psychologically unhealthy. The shame people feel for committing "sins" that any normal human would naturally commit is also likely psychologically damaging. The methods many parents use to enforce their religion's arbitrary and unnecessary beliefs on children can be incredibly traumatic. Being brainwashed to believe that which defies science and logic is damaging to the ability to think logically or critically. When their logical ability is compromised by believing religion's false reality, people become unpredictable and may do anything at any time in the name of religion. They might hear a voice and think a god has spoken to them and told them to do an evil deed. They might refer to a passage in their bible and use it to justify a conclusion that doesn't make sense, possibly even an important conclusion (for instance, a lawmaker deciding on an issue that affects millions of people). The list goes on. My point is that people take religion's influence too lightly. Don't let natural human charity fool you into thinking religion has some important benefit to society.
 
However, it is probable that the evil deeds committed in the name of the bible would not have come about in its absence. And the deeds that would still come about would probably never have lasted as long without biblical justification.

Personally I think the people who did evil would have found another excuse. Religion is a convenient excuse that has been used, but so has national pride, racial superiority, social class, gender, the pursuit of money/power, and a host of other easy cop-outs that have been used countless times throughout history. People who want to do evil badly enough will always find a way to justify doing it to themselves and to their followers.

Gotaro said:
The confusion it causes people, who undoubtedly realize that the text does not fit with their observed reality and have to make a choice to believe what they see or what they read/hear, has to be very psychologically unhealthy. The shame people feel for committing "sins" that any normal human would naturally commit is also likely psychologically damaging. The methods many parents use to enforce their religion's arbitrary and unnecessary beliefs on children can be incredibly traumatic. Being brainwashed to believe that which defies science and logic is damaging to the ability to think logically or critically.

That's all conjecture. Just because you "think" something might be psychologically unhealthy or damaging doesn't make it true; in fact, studies show that religious people are on average happier than non-religious. There is no evidence that just because people believe that some things exist that cannot be observed means that they are unable to think logically or critically about the things that they can observe. You could of course argue that there is sufficient evidence based on what we can observe to actively disprove the existence of a deity, or at least the existence of any of the deities described in any of the holy books commonly used today; I'll simply acknowledge that this is certainly a tenable position, just one that I don't agree with, and frankly a while ago I came to accept that I'm not going to change someone's deep-seated beliefs through an internet forum.

Don't let natural human charity fool you into thinking religion has some important benefit to society.
If you truly believe that every single instance of human charity could have occurred in the absence of religion, I'm not going to bother debating that point with you, as quite frankly it's outside the scope of what the OP is looking for here; I'll simply say that I respectfully disagree. But if, for the sake of the argument, I were to accept that it has no important benefit to society, that does not mean that a single individual cannot benefit from it. Many people find comfort and a purpose in life as a response to religion; for some, the idea that we all just exist as an accident is simply unacceptable or reduces their life to meaninglessness. For many, it shapes their understanding of reality in a way that makes better sense than everything simply being random. And I have met countless individuals who needed the impetus of religion to spur them towards expressing charity towards others, as for them it was pointless beforehand. I'm sorry that you seem to have had an extremely negative experience with religion growing up, but for many it can be a positive influence in their lives.
 
frankly a while ago I came to accept that I'm not going to change someone's deep-seated beliefs through an internet forum.
True, but that isn't what arguing on the interwebz is for. I argue to refine my own argument, to better understand my opponents' arguments, and to develop the most effective methods of addressing the issues in the future. And as you pointed out, I have my research cut out for me, since my ideas are just hypotheses. I hope anyone can see that I don't claim to know them as facts, though I hope I hit home on a lot of my points to people who have experienced exactly what I'm claiming.

Even slaves lived happy lives. (We still do ;), well, some of us.)

And with that, I'm dropping the argument. She's all yours, OP! ;D (He probably hates me by now.)
 
True, but that isn't what arguing on the interwebz is for. I argue to refine my own argument, to better understand my opponents' arguments, and to develop the most effective methods of addressing the issues in the future. And as you pointed out, I have my research cut out for me, since my ideas are just hypotheses. I hope anyone can see that I don't claim to know them as facts, though I hope I hit home on a lot of my points to people who have experienced exactly what I'm claiming.

Even slaves lived happy lives. (We still do ;), well, some of us.)

And with that, I'm dropping the argument. She's all yours, OP! ;D (He probably hates me by now.)

:thumbup: I'm glad we could have this discussion and keep it relatively civil.

Sorry to the OP if we somewhat hijacked your thread for a while there. :oops: I think the ultimate conclusion is that some people would suggest a religious book as a place to start if you're questioning reality, while others would vehemently argue that doing so is pointless. If that's outside the scope of what you were looking for, sorry for the hijack!
 
True, but that isn't what arguing on the interwebz is for. I argue to refine my own argument, to better understand my opponents' arguments, and to develop the most effective methods of addressing the issues in the future. And as you pointed out, I have my research cut out for me, since my ideas are just hypotheses. I hope anyone can see that I don't claim to know them as facts, though I hope I hit home on a lot of my points to people who have experienced exactly what I'm claiming.

Even slaves lived happy lives. (We still do ;), well, some of us.)

And with that, I'm dropping the argument. She's all yours, OP! ;D (He probably hates me by now.)

I don't think it's fair for you to judge us (people who believe in God) since you never tried to get to know our religion. You think Bible is evil probably because you never read it before? If you need a bible or if you are interested, PM me. If you don't mind, you can tell me your address and I will mail you a bible, FOR FREE! And..I'm serious. :)
 
Glad to see the debate kept up without me, and I'm glad it reached a semi-reasonable conclusion. Although I still maintain that before passing judgment on religion itself, you look past what you've heard and been made to believe and just learn about it as objectively as possible.

OP (since I think I've been neglecting you, hahaha), I think we all go through those times. I've been traveling the world for some time now, and only recently did I develop a sense of homesickness. And when I became homesick, those sorts of questions popped out from under the stress.

The best advice I can give you (and regardless of what other people think, it is something I firmly believe) is to seek answers through any method possible. For me, it's reading anything. For my brother, it's perusing the ideas of philosophers. My Godmother reaches for the Bible, and my best friend seeks answers through science and experimentation. You may never find a satisfactory answer, but you can get close. And if it gives YOU comfort or security, that's more than enough.

Good luck!
 
Lately, I've been questioning reality. Anyone else feel this way? It's as if I'm in a permanent trans. All this school stuff and personal matters that I'm going through have been rather harsh. I feel as if I'm not good enough, not worthy, not anything, not even me sometimes and at other times I'm perfectly fine. No, I'm not a troll. I just want feedback as to if anyone has anything constructive to say. It feels really weird. I think all this med school stuff is affecting my brain. :(

To be on topic...

Sounds like depression. Disassociation occurs with the whole "questioning reality" thing as a coping mechanism. But until you actually lose the grip on reality and start hearing voices are thinking you're the reincarnation of Napoleon (and psychotic symptoms can occur with SEVERE depression), then you aren't crazy.

Even if you were, a counselor wouldn't be able to tell anybody unless you were threatening to hurt yourself or other people. Patient confidentiality, and all that. Go see a counselor. It have yet to meet a pre-med that hasn't had at least one depressive episode during college.
 
Do you have a girlfriend. They help, along with good friends. No joke.
 
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