Am I too behind to realistically apply for the upcoming AMCAS application cycle?

[s_r_e_m]

Hello,

I was hoping to get some opinions or advice (maybe words of encouragement?) regarding my situation. I am currently a Junior pursuing Pre-Med, but I have yet to take the MCAT and have had trouble finding a physician to shadow (especially with the restrictions due to the pandemic the past two years). I plan to take the MCAT in June or July and have been reaching out to various contacts in hopes of finding a physician for in person shadowing (side note: I have spent time with “virtual shadowing”resources, but was not sure how medical schools would view it).

I still do not completely understand how the application process works and was not sure if my plan is unrealistic or if I would be at a disadvantage with these essential components being completed last minute. I am aware that my application being completed later will result in me likely receiving a potential interview later, but are there other important factors that I should keep in mind? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

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[Faha]

What are your cGPA and sGPA ? Do you have any clinical volunteering hours with patient contact or non clinical volunteering ? Where is your state of residence ?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

TLDR: Yes you are about to throw away thousands of dollars on a poor application. Don't do this.

So it sounds like you don't have any prehealth advising office, career services office, or any academic advisor from the start. You probably haven't heard of the MSAR or connected with any free MCAT prep from AAMC or Khan Academy. Basically you're doing it all by yourself against a field of applicants armed with resources and sponsors and preparation. We have a bunch of free resources to prepare an application which i hope you have used. How off-base is this description?

By the way, it's not a rite of passage to apply to medical school. You apply when you are fully prepared, and it sounds like you aren't there at all.

If anything, you are doing things backwards. Don't take the MCAT unless you have done your classes and -- through your clinical and community service experience -- developed a strong case for becoming a physician. The MCAT is one of many other tests you may have to take prior to any interviews (so you haven't even heard of Casper or PREview). To me the MCAT is one of the last steps before applying.

 

[s_r_e_m]

TLDR: Yes you are about to throw away thousands of dollars on a poor application. Don't do this.

So it sounds like you don't have any prehealth advising office, career services office, or any academic advisor from the start. You probably haven't heard of the MSAR or connected with any free MCAT prep from AAMC or Khan Academy. Basically you're doing it all by yourself against a field of applicants armed with resources and sponsors and preparation. We have a bunch of free resources to prepare an application which i hope you have used. How off-base is this description?

By the way, it's not a rite of passage to apply to medical school. You apply when you are fully prepared, and it sounds like you aren't there at all.

If anything, you are doing things backwards. Don't take the MCAT unless you have done your classes and -- through your clinical and community service experience -- developed a strong case for becoming a physician. The MCAT is one of many other tests you may have to take prior to any interviews (so you haven't even heard of Casper or PREview). To me the MCAT is one of the last steps before applying.

Thank you for the feedback! Fortunately, my university does have a pre-health advising office and I took an Intro to Medicine course so I am aware of the various components involved in an application (we actually had a whole lecture dedicated to Casper, the schools I plan to apply to do not require it, but I still plan to take it as a personal self-assessment). My university also has a Pre-Med Club and we’ve had a variety of physicians come by and speak. I have also been doing my own research in regard to MCAT studying and have been looking into various resources such as Jack Westin for CARS and Anki for content review in addition to my Kaplan and AAMC practice. I believe I am fully prepared to take on the challenges of medicine and am more than willing to put in the work to satisfy the requirements of the application. I have also participated in various community service activities, it is primarily the clinical experience aspect that I have had trouble accessing. Sorry for the rather long response, but I hope it provides more context to my situation.

My primary concern deals with how my application may appear to adcoms. Could my condensed period of shadowing that I plan to pursue reflect badly on my application?

 

[s_r_e_m]

What are your cGPA and sGPA ? Do you have any clinical volunteering hours with patient contact or non clinical volunteering ? Where is your state of residence ?

I currently have a 3.85 cGPA and a 3.79 sGPA. I am in the process of screening in order to volunteer at my local hospital in hospitality services and I have participated in non-clinical volunteering such as Read Across America and outreach to homeless individuals. I reside in California.

Do you have any advice in regard to finding clinical volunteering or shadowing opportunities?

 

[chilly_md]

If you do not have clinical experience or shadowing, your application will essentially be a donation.

Do not take Casper as a self-assessment. You can take online personality quizzes in your free time and that would provide more information than their company does to the applicant.

 

[VaultArmitage]

Echoing the above poster, without actual clinical experience (NOT just shadowing) then your application will not garner any attention. Schools receive thousands of applications and no clinical experience is a very easy way to reject someone.

 

[s_r_e_m]

If you do not have clinical experience or shadowing, your application will essentially be a donation.

Do not take Casper as a self-assessment. You can take online personality quizzes in your free time and that would provide more information than their company does to the applicant.

Thank you for your feedback! I do not plan to start my application until I have shadowed a physician. I have contacted a shadowing coordinator at the local medical center and am waiting to hear back about potential shadowing opportunities.

Do you have any advice for finding shadowing opportunities?

 

[s_r_e_m]

Echoing the above poster, without actual clinical experience (NOT just shadowing) then your application will not garner any attention. Schools receive thousands of applications and no clinical experience is a very easy way to reject someone.

Thank you for the feedback! I try not to partake in activities just to check boxes, but what experience would be deemed clinical? I apologize for my ignorance in advance, but I had always assumed any activity involved in patient care would suffice. I was thinking I can write off my time volunteering at my local hospital as clinical experience. I also took a course in Phlebotomy and had clinicals where I worked with in-patients. Not sure if I can count this experience as clinical experience, but I definitely plan to note it as an experience that motivated me to pursue medicine based on my meaningful interactions with patients.

 

[chilly_md]

Thank you for your feedback! I do not plan to start my application until I have shadowed a physician. I have contacted a shadowing coordinator at the local medical center and am waiting to hear back about potential shadowing opportunities.

Do you have any advice for finding shadowing opportunities?

As the above poster mentioned, it would be wise to take a gap year and work in a clinical position such as scribe, CNA or MA. You could have an easier time shadowing there as well. Private practices may be more flexible on shadowing.

Why do want to be a physician? Why medicine? Those are what the personal statement as well as many interviewers ask. A gap year would allow you to see if this is even the path you would like to take.

 

[s_r_e_m]

I would recommend taking a gap year and finding a full time clinical job. This would also help you find shadowing opportunities. You can volunteer non-clinically on the weekends to bolster your application even further.

Thank you for the advice! I plan to set up shadowing sessions at my local hospital by the end of the month if all goes well with the coordinator. Would the gap year still be advisable? Most Pre-health advisors I have spoken to do not suggest a clinical job so I was hoping if I am able to get adequate experience volunteering clinical and shadowing that would suffice. Or is it more advisable in my situation because the lack of consistent shadowing throughout my undergraduate education would factor into the adcoms decision?

 

[LizzyM]

Slow down. Rushing into an application cycle is like rushing into marriage but even more demoralizing. Spend the summer prepping for the MCAT and take it in August, if you are taking full length practice tests under test conditions and doing as well as you'd like to do. Then plan on using those clinical skills you've already acquired toward getting a job as a patient care technician, or other patient facing job, and work a year after college. This can be the year you are applying or you could figure on working a year and then applying. The process is expensive, time consuming, and, if unsuccessful, heart-breaking. Do it right and you'll only have to do it once.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you for the feedback! Fortunately, my university does have a pre-health advising office and I took an Intro to Medicine course so I am aware of the various components involved in an application (we actually had a whole lecture dedicated to Casper, the schools I plan to apply to do not require it, but I still plan to take it as a personal self-assessment). My university also has a Pre-Med Club and we’ve had a variety of physicians come by and speak. I have also been doing my own research in regard to MCAT studying and have been looking into various resources such as Jack Westin for CARS and Anki for content review in addition to my Kaplan and AAMC practice. I believe I am fully prepared to take on the challenges of medicine and am more than willing to put in the work to satisfy the requirements of the application. I have also participated in various community service activities, it is primarily the clinical experience aspect that I have had trouble accessing. Sorry for the rather long response, but I hope it provides more context to my situation.

My primary concern deals with how my application may appear to adcoms. Could my condensed period of shadowing that I plan to pursue reflect badly on my application?

Okay... I appreciate a better idea of your environment. However, I am trying to understand what you think the challenges of medicine are, especially if you are trying to push in all the shadowing. Do you have any other clinical experience that does not involve shadowing?

Shadowing is only part of the "clinical exposure" equation (and it's not really an equation). The problem isn't what the admissions committees think about your application... it's whether they'll pay attention to your application when so many more applicants have more experience and are thus more desirable.

Advice for shadowing opportunities: see our resource: Shadowing Experience | Activity Finder .

 

[s_r_e_m]

Your lack of consistent shadowing isn’t the problem. No adcom will care when you get your shadowing, so long as you have 40+ hours, or whatnot. The issue is your clinical experience, which you said you have had trouble accessing. You need more of it, and you need to show longevity in it. With that in mind, I would say a gap year is still strongly advisable.

That is good to know. Thank you! My primary struggle with clinical experience has been the shadowing aspect, as it is not something that can be applied for. I have, however, applied to volunteer at my hospital in hospitality services which I hope will allow me to participate in more patient care clinical experience. Is hospital volunteering considered clinical experience? For undergraduates who do not work in a clinical environment as a scribe or MA, how do they achieve clinical experience? Thank you for your helpful advice!

 

[chilly_md]

Volunteering with hospice is one avenue that gets overlooked. Hospital volunteering can be good, but often it may not be clinical or get you exposure to patients. For example, being a greeter or volunteering at the gift shop in a hospital does not count.

 

[s_r_e_m]

Okay... I appreciate a better idea of your environment. However, I am trying to understand what you think the challenges of medicine are, especially if you are trying to push in all the shadowing. Do you have any other clinical experience that does not involve shadowing?

Shadowing is only part of the "clinical exposure" equation (and it's not really an equation). The problem isn't what the admissions committees think about your application... it's whether they'll pay attention to your application when so many more applicants have more experience and are thus more desirable.

Advice for shadowing opportunities: see our resource: Shadowing Experience | Activity Finder .

Not considering shadowing, I have participated in Phlebotomy in the clinical setting, drawing blood from in-patients if that can be considered clinical experience and I will be volunteering at my hospital in hospitality services (there’s been delays due to COVID, I was set to begin volunteering last summer).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Not considering shadowing, I have participated in Phlebotomy in the clinical setting, drawing blood from in-patients if that can be considered clinical experience and I will be volunteering at my hospital in hospitality services (there’s been delays due to COVID, I was set to begin volunteering last summer).

Then I'm a bit confused since you asked about how to find shadowing opportunities. Didn't you write:

I was hoping to get some opinions or advice (maybe words of encouragement?) regarding my situation. I am currently a Junior pursuing Pre-Med, but I have yet to take the MCAT and have had trouble finding a physician to shadow (especially with the restrictions due to the pandemic the past two years). I plan to take the MCAT in June or July and have been reaching out to various contacts in hopes of finding a physician for in person shadowing (side note: I have spent time with “virtual shadowing” resources, but was not sure how medical schools would view it).

Please rephrase your question specifically and not have us run around giving you advice you don't need. Yes being a phlebotomist is clinical experience.

 

[s_r_e_m]

Volunteering with hospice is one avenue that gets overlooked. Hospital volunteering can be good, but often it may not be clinical or get you exposure to patients. For example, being a greeter or volunteering at the gift shop in a hospital does not count.

Thank you! That clarifies things. The position I applied to describes direct patient assistance along with assisting visitors find their way around the hospital. There are other positions that involve providing social interaction with patients if that would be a better experience for patient-care perhaps?

 

[chilly_md]

Not considering shadowing, I have participated in Phlebotomy in the clinical setting, drawing blood from in-patients if that can be considered clinical experience and I will be volunteering at my hospital in hospitality services (there’s been delays due to COVID, I was set to begin volunteering last summer).

If you trained to become a phlebotomist, I would suggest you try to find part-time work as one. The real life training hours as part of the course are not sufficient on their own (I assume it would total 40 to 50, if you did become certified).

Choose the hospital position you would enjoy that allows you to interact with patients (either socially, patient transport, etc).

 

[s_r_e_m]

Then I'm a bit confused since you asked about how to find shadowing opportunities. Didn't you write:

I was hoping to get some opinions or advice (maybe words of encouragement?) regarding my situation. I am currently a Junior pursuing Pre-Med, but I have yet to take the MCAT and have had trouble finding a physician to shadow (especially with the restrictions due to the pandemic the past two years). I plan to take the MCAT in June or July and have been reaching out to various contacts in hopes of finding a physician for in person shadowing (side note: I have spent time with “virtual shadowing” resources, but was not sure how medical schools would view it).

Please rephrase your question specifically and not have us run around giving you advice you don't need. Yes being a phlebotomist is clinical experience.

Sorry for the confusion, I am still looking for in-person shadowing opportunities and would appreciate any advice on how to obtain them. I have received questions from other advisors on this thread regarding clinical experience besides shadowing so I also addressed that after the initial post. I greatly appreciate all the advice.

 

[Proudfather94]

Hello,

I was hoping to get some opinions or advice (maybe words of encouragement?) regarding my situation. I am currently a Junior pursuing Pre-Med, but I have yet to take the MCAT and have had trouble finding a physician to shadow (especially with the restrictions due to the pandemic the past two years). I plan to take the MCAT in June or July and have been reaching out to various contacts in hopes of finding a physician for in person shadowing (side note: I have spent time with “virtual shadowing”resources, but was not sure how medical schools would view it).

I still do not completely understand how the application process works and was not sure if my plan is unrealistic or if I would be at a disadvantage with these essential components being completed last minute. I am aware that my application being completed later will result in me likely receiving a potential interview later, but are there other important factors that I should keep in mind? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

That's way to soon to take the MCAT unless you want to spend every waking moment studying. That's a test where being ready for it is worth a gap year. I would take this summer to find out more about the application cycle and what you need to do and try to get some shadowing. If you can schedule easier classes the spring semester of your Senior year and begin studying winter break you should have 4 months between then and mid April to take it. You should get your score before you can submit your application at the end of May.

To shadow see what you can pull you may just have to cold call some doctors offices and tell them you want to shadow. Shadowing a DO would be great in case you apply to DO schools. MD schools won't care that the doctor you shadowed is a DO so that would open the most doors for you.

I read more of your thread and want to add more. You should get a hospital job during the summer and volunteer. You may be able to get the hours if you volunteer a small amount during the fall too.

 

[candbgirl]

You’ve gotten good advice. Please slow down. You are woefully behind to apply next cycle. Your ECs are lacking and you have no MCAT score. How are your letters? What’s the rush? Med Schools aren’t going anywhere. Did you know that each cycle only around 40% of all applicants are accepted? Last cycle (20-21) only about 36% were accepted. So that means around 60% of all applicants were outright rejected. This includes stellar applicants with comprehensive applications. You really only want to apply once with the best possible application. You want to stand out among a sea of applications and you want reviewers to think “I’d like to meet this applicant”. Nothing about your current application says I want to be a physician and this is how I arrived at this point.
So, again, slow dow and do it once and do it right.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hello,

I was hoping to get some opinions or advice (maybe words of encouragement?) regarding my situation. I am currently a Junior pursuing Pre-Med, but I have yet to take the MCAT and have had trouble finding a physician to shadow (especially with the restrictions due to the pandemic the past two years). I plan to take the MCAT in June or July and have been reaching out to various contacts in hopes of finding a physician for in person shadowing (side note: I have spent time with “virtual shadowing”resources, but was not sure how medical schools would view it).

I still do not completely understand how the application process works and was not sure if my plan is unrealistic or if I would be at a disadvantage with these essential components being completed last minute. I am aware that my application being completed later will result in me likely receiving a potential interview later, but are there other important factors that I should keep in mind? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

In terms of your readiness to apply, I would say "not yet." While you've made a start, you would be at a disadvantage trying to apply this summer if you don't yet have a clear understanding of the admissions process or an MCAT. While there are lots of resources on SDN, AAMC, and various sites, including mine, for an overview of the admissions process, I recommend the following books:

• The Medical School Admissions Guide by Suzanne Miller
• Premed Prep: Advice from a Medical School Admissions Dean by Sunny Nakae

In your post you don't mention your GPA, community service, or clinical exposure. These are all essential elements of the application process. Research can be a "nice to have" or essential depending on the schools you are aiming for and your individual goals. I have interviewed many admissions deans and directors. Virtual shadowing is one of those things that are not universally valued.

Again, I'd give yourself a gap year to get it all done, and done well.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

My last year of UG I was in a similar position. I’d put a lot of work into my app and was hoping adcoms could overlook one or two little details here and there. But why would they? They have tens of thousands of applicants, many of whom have done all the requirements and then some, plus have a compelling narrative they’ve developed through hundreds or thousands of hours of pre med experiences. Ultimately I decided to wait a year to apply after getting my ass handed to me on SDN lol. Was accepted to one school late in the cycle even after meeting all the requirements. I’m certain I wouldn’t have been accepted if I hadn’t waited.

Some students are finding shadowing opportunities online or scribing online. I also had success with cold calling. A lot of docs like the sound of their own voice (in a good way! We’re supposed to be teachers) and are happy to take a student for a week or two.

IMO hospital volunteering was just a box to check. Didn’t get much out of it. Got a lot more essay fodder from my jobs as a pharmacy tech, an MA and a scribe. Those job experiences helped me understand the nuts and bolts of how a doctor affects their patients’ outcomes and gave me a bigger picture of how the healthcare system works - insurance, advanced care practitioners etc. Overall I’m confident I came across as much more informed from those jobs vs what I learned wandering around the ED and restocking ice bags and blankets. Yes talking to pts is great but that’s just one aspect of clinical experience.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Hello,

I was hoping to get some opinions or advice (maybe words of encouragement?) regarding my situation. I am currently a Junior pursuing Pre-Med, but I have yet to take the MCAT and have had trouble finding a physician to shadow (especially with the restrictions due to the pandemic the past two years). I plan to take the MCAT in June or July and have been reaching out to various contacts in hopes of finding a physician for in person shadowing (side note: I have spent time with “virtual shadowing”resources, but was not sure how medical schools would view it).

I still do not completely understand how the application process works and was not sure if my plan is unrealistic or if I would be at a disadvantage with these essential components being completed last minute. I am aware that my application being completed later will result in me likely receiving a potential interview later, but are there other important factors that I should keep in mind? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

I'd suggest a gap year or two to gain some clinical AND shadowing experience. You don't want your clinical and shadowing experience to look like you are just checking a box so you need to invest some time in this. When I applied, I had 120ish shadowing hours (two DOs, one MD) and 20,000 clinical hours. No one will expect you to have as many clinical hours as I had; I served in the military (Army medic) and worked as a civilian paramedic for years, that said, when I applied, I had about 1,500 recent (i.e., in the two years directly preceding. my application) clinical hours. To get some shadowing hours, you. might start by asking your PCP of you could shadow them. A way to gain some clinical and volunteer hours would be to spend a gap year in AmeriCorps; they have opportunities in clinics doing various things. I was an AmeriCorps VISTA for two terms of service (2011 and 2012) and was assigned to the San Francisco Dept. of Public Health and the Maricopa County Department of Public Health respectively. I got 3000+ community service hours out of the experience, learned how to write grants, established an optometry clinic, and established a health navigator program. Was a great talking point during a couple of interviews and I ended up getting some shadowing out. of the deal as well. Depending on how your finances are, you might seek training as a CNA or EMT as well (Some long term care facilities offer free CNA training in exchange for a year or two commitment). As others have said above, don't rush this. Putting together a successful medical school application will take time...