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am I working too much?

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by residency2010, Sep 5, 2017.

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  1. residency2010

    residency2010 7+ Year Member

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    Hi all, I currently work at a level 1 trauma center in NY where I work approx. 70-80 hrs a week. I take 7-8 calls a month and work post call day. I m paid on a hourly basis and ends up making 450k approx. Lately I m much tired and feeling the burn out. Am I working too much? Can I make the same money working less in NY/NJ areas?
     
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  3. chocomorsel

    chocomorsel Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    Wanna live in the big city, you will pay the price one way or the other.

    That's insane. No way. You are grossly underpaid.

    I never have gotten the fascination with living in NYC.
     
  4. residency2010

    residency2010 7+ Year Member

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    I actually live in NJ. I chose NY for family reasons. I can work in nj. Just want to know if these working hours are normal for a attending.
     
    mostwanted likes this.
  5. chocomorsel

    chocomorsel Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    They can be normal for some practices. But I suspect in those practices they make more than what you are on average. I only know anecdotally though of the few people that work that hard.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
    nimbus likes this.
  6. nimbus

    nimbus Member 10+ Year Member

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    Only you can answer whether or not you are working too much. If you are tired and burned out then the answer is yes. You are grossly underpaid. Assuming an average rate of $200/hr you should be able to make the same income on 50hrs/week. What is your hourly?
     
  7. dr doze

    dr doze To be able to forget means to sanity Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    The market for the big metro areas is bad. Yes you work too much. Wanna make more per hour? Try west and north of the Lincoln Tunnel. About three hours. For NJ, try some where close to the PA border. Well north of Philadelphia. Sorry. Been there. Done that. Tried to make it work. Moved out a long time ago. Some days I regret it. Most days not.
     
    DetectiveAlonzo and chocomorsel like this.
  8. residency2010

    residency2010 7+ Year Member

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    Hourly rate is 125$:arghh:. Thanks for the replies.
     
  9. GravelRider

    GravelRider SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

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    No. That's a bad job, even for the much maligned northeast. You're making less per hour than most CRNAs that I know. Are you 1099? Benefits?

    Quit, negotiate a 200/hr minimum locums rate for one of the many open assignments in ny metro as a temporary plan, and start looking around for something better. Expand your radius to at least a 1 hour drive from the northeast cities.
     
  10. residency2010

    residency2010 7+ Year Member

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    I am w2 and benefits are really good with good insurance and 401k match. Will start looking at other options.
     
  11. Psai

    Psai Account on Hold 2+ Year Member

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    They're probably making more off you than you're getting.
     
    nimbus likes this.
  12. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    I got a little dyspneic just reading the 70-80 hour + 7-8 calls/month bit.

    Even if NYC is where you want to be, I can't imagine that you're ever seeing any of it.
     
  13. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    You answered your own question. I'm an hour outside of a city, work 40/week and make more than you doing bread and butter cases
     
  14. aneftp

    aneftp 7+ Year Member

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    New York State income tax is 8%? Plus 3% city taxes?

    So that 450k income with high income taxes makes it even worst especially with those working hours.

    Union workers in New York State with better pension plans make 100-120k and work like 35 real hours a week.
     
  15. pjl

    pjl ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    You are working too much irrespective of the pay.

    You are paid too little irrespective of the hours.

    Open your eyes to the world outside NY. You can take all 6-16 weeks of your vacation in NY and just work somewhere else.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
  16. GA8314

    GA8314 Regaining my sanity 2+ Year Member

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    Agree with the others. Sounds over the top to me man.

    Family reasons? When do you have the time to see them??
     
    Hkhan likes this.
  17. caligas

    caligas ASA Member 5+ Year Member

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    Young folks remember that this is a marathon not a sprint. A career in Anesthesia may be 40 years. Spend reasonably and work at a modest pace (50 hours and a few calls per month) and invest wisely and you will retire on a fortune, possible at a relatively young age.

    Kill yourself at 80 hours a week and q4 call and you will be burned out and divorced at 45.
     
  18. residency2010

    residency2010 7+ Year Member

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    My plan is to retire at early 50's, so I thought I would work hard for first 10 years.Guess I was wrong. Gotta do it slow.
     
  19. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    A bit off subject at this point, but New York City is one of those places where if you enjoy living in a city, you don't appreciate it until you're gone. There are plenty of large cities, but they honestly can't compare to NYC. But it does to a special mindset.
     
    nimbus likes this.
  20. turnupthegas

    turnupthegas 2+ Year Member

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    Average hourly rate should be around 200? Seems high for Tri-state area. Or these AMCs are getting away with a lot.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
  21. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Ouch. I bet if you worked on a "per unit" vs hourly rate you'd make a killing, so you're underpaid.
     
  22. caligas

    caligas ASA Member 5+ Year Member

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    Well if the goal is to retire very young (40 ish) than sure, kill yourself, but do it someplace where you are rewarded for the work. At my place you'd make 700-$800k with that schedule.
     
  23. ryanjmy

    ryanjmy 7+ Year Member

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    I think you'd have a hard time finding an hourly rate this low. I've never seen anything advertised at this rate. Unless you have major skeletons in your closet you can do a lot better.

    There are jobs where you work 2 weeks on and one off or one on and one off where you can make similar pay.
     
  24. ryanjmy

    ryanjmy 7+ Year Member

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    double post
     
  25. FFP

    FFP Grunt, cog, body, pompous ass Gold Donor 7+ Year Member

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    $125 plus good benefits? You're kidding. That's somewhat under the going rate in the Northeast, but not by much, especially if the benefits are great.

    Consider the "wonderful" academic jobs in NYC, that pay around 220-230K for 8-9 hour-days with 6 weeks of vacation. That's around $125 plus benefits.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  26. FFP

    FFP Grunt, cog, body, pompous ass Gold Donor 7+ Year Member

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    Outside of a city, not the city. ;)

    People have various reasons for living in the Northeast, and most of the time it's not masochism.
     
    anbuitachi, Twiggidy and acidbase1 like this.
  27. residency2010

    residency2010 7+ Year Member

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    My main issue is I m on a visa. So all bets r off. It's hard to find a good job with visa. Hopefully green card gets approved faster.
     
    nimbus likes this.
  28. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

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    If you were working those hours at $200/hour you could pay for those things yourself and have plenty left to spare. $125/hr is what a lot of family practice docs are making in urgent care, my god...
     
  29. residency2010

    residency2010 7+ Year Member

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    The funny thing is it used to be 100$ per hour and they increased to 125 because they couldnt hire people.Right out of residency, I thought 450k is a big deal. Now I m seeing the difference.
     
  30. residency2010

    residency2010 7+ Year Member

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    And people were working at that 100$ rate for decades here. Don't know why.
     
  31. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

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    There's a sucker born every minute, and NYC is basically a sucker magnet.
     
  32. woopedazz

    woopedazz 2+ Year Member

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    Same reason you're working for $125
     
  33. dr doze

    dr doze To be able to forget means to sanity Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    For the same reason(s) you have been. Even knowing that you could double your hourly rate and Live in a lower cost of living, lower tax area, and have more job security due to difficulty of recruiting.
     
    Mad Jack likes this.
  34. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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  35. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would want to live in NYC. I always enjoy it a week at a time. Once the week is up, I'm ready to GTFO
     
  36. dr doze

    dr doze To be able to forget means to sanity Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Because it's fookin new yawk. Ya dum fook.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
  37. Carbocation1

    Carbocation1 2+ Year Member

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    Is this NAPA?
     
  38. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Same can be said for someone that lives out in the sticks....
     
  39. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay 10+ Year Member

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    True, but at least the guy in the sticks isn't gettin' tag teamed in the S5 by low pay and ridiculous COL to live there.
     
  40. Scotty_G

    Scotty_G Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    No it can't be NAPA they don't have any level 1 centers in NY. But most of the level 1's are academic centers except maybe in the bronx.
     
  41. GravelRider

    GravelRider SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

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    Are we in Dublin or NYC?
     
  42. GravelRider

    GravelRider SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

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    He did say he has Visa issues, which certainly limits his options. It's also not easy, culturally speaking, for immigrants/foreigners/non-whites outside of places like NYC. (I'm making assumptions based on his referral to visa issue).

    I'm not sure referring to the OP as a sucker or commenting on the nature of human stupidity is the way to go for someone looking for advice. This stuff isn't taught in residency and many of these employers know how to make something sound good on paper. I'm sure he didn't know he would be working 70-80 hours a week when he signed up for the job. According to all of the available online surveys, he is making above average anesthesiologist pay...just working a lot harder for it. This is what I mean about maintaining an ability and willingness to leave a job...any job (including that sweet midwestern partnership gig)...if things turn sour.
     
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  43. AdmiralChz

    AdmiralChz Random-zilla 7+ Year Member

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    I'm not so sure about only being able to work in NYC, there are many foreign-burns at academic centers all over. My residency had several basically just waiting for the green card to go through, and I was hundreds of miles away from a large city. It seems universities are much more apt to sponsor these visas, particularly if you've trained there.
     
    Mad Jack likes this.
  44. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

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    Even in rural areas, J-1s aren't exactly unheard of...
     
    wholeheartedly likes this.
  45. GravelRider

    GravelRider SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

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    Sure. I get that. I said places like NYC...meaning urban, larger population. I'm not saying NYC is his only option, but there are plenty of variables beyond just job that go into choosing where to live. NYC is often an easy place for foreign-born people to live because it is easy to find people from the same culture. There is probably no other place in the world where a similar ability exists. I just take exception to calling him a sucker without knowing his full circumstance.

    However, his visa issues almost certainly limit him for the sweet million dollar partnerships that everyone on here seems to have.
     
    AdmiralChz likes this.
  46. PhysicianOnFIRE

    PhysicianOnFIRE

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    Thanks for the link to the Geographic Arbitrage article, @sethco .

    That sounds like a path to burnout. I'm at a Level III trauma center (the helicopters come to take patients away). I work about half as much as OP on average, and earn about the same. So hourly, I'm paid double.

    We don't have the amenities of NYC, but we have nonstop flights to NYC and many other exciting places.

    Cheers!
    -PoF
     
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  47. sethco

    sethco Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Ha, that's funny. You were the first result for a Google search on Geographic Arbitrage
     
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  48. timgasman

    timgasman

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    No matter what, you cannot work 70-80 hrs in anesthesia. Friends of mine in other fields often talk of how they work these hrs but anesthesia is different. We are working in a cold OR, with no coffee or tea to sip on during work. We cannot even use the bathroom without permission. Under these circumstances I would not work in a job for more than 50-60 hours.
     
  49. dr doze

    dr doze To be able to forget means to sanity Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Mostly true. Not always true. I have worked with docs who are quite simply unbelievable workaholics (maybe moneyaholics would be a better description) who worked 80-100+ hours per week for more than two decades. This in a level 1 trauma with little to no sleep on call. People are built differently.
     
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  50. AdmiralChz

    AdmiralChz Random-zilla 7+ Year Member

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    My roommate in medical school probably fits this description, only slept 2-3 hours a night from like 3-6 AM and would stay up doing odd jobs for cash (reviewing resumes, helping with online MCAT prep, and some other things I can't remember). Seems like he'd cram in 2-3 days in a row of non-stop studying all day and night when it came time for finals or Step 1 (he wasn't exactly quiet...). I always wondered if he was heading for burnout land.
     

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