Am in a deep Hole, what are my options???

[KBPRO86]

Hi, sry for another do i have a chance thread, but i really need input.
So i graduated from VCU in May 2006 after 5 years of undergrad, and i feel that my academic record will be the ultimate stumbling block for med school to be a reality. i did pretty pretty bad in undergrad ie first 4 years..with my GPA flunctuating between either being a 3.0 one semester, a 3.3 another semester and sometimes it goes down to a 2.3 or even 1.5 for a semester. problem was the only classes i was doing bad in were science courses ie the premed classes, but all my non-science courses were B's and mostly A's, with a lot of C's, D's and an even F in Organic Chemistry 2, with 3 other F's in other classes i dont really remember. to even add more fuel to the fire, i have like 8 W's on my transcript and most in my premed prerequisites and science classes. i feel like am at a point of no return. after 3 years of college, including summer semesters of getting D's, C's and F's, and trying to retake these classes in the summer and still not doing well in them, i decided i was done and premed wasn't possible anymore. My senior year came around and i continued taking science classes, but not as a premed, but just to graduate basically. First semester senior year I got a 2.75 gpa, second semester rose to a 3.4, that summer i took another 14 credits and got a 4.0gpa. this kinda boosted my confidence, so in my super senior year, since i didnt have too many classes to take in order to graduate, i began retaking all the classes i did bad in and got a 4.0 both semesters. After i graduated, i took a job and has just been working since then. I recently decided that i really wanted to go to medical school, and found out about the D.O route, and the fact that they do not count the first grade for retakes. so my GPA for AACOMAS according to my calculations would be 3.41 overall, 3.32 science( due to about 13 retaken classes that i did really bad in). AMCAS is a different story since both of my grades would be counted, overall would be like a 2.76 and science even lower...so MD is out of the Question. Am routing for D.O but my academic history (8W's, and lot of C's and D's in prereqs previously) will definately raise red flags and ruin my chances of ever getting in. i recently took the MCATS and got a 27Q. I really have no excuse for my bad grades, except that i was working a lot (Had 2 jobs) in undergrad and averaging ~40hrs a week of work. So do you guys think i have a shot at a U.S D.O program...i really want to be a DOC, but it seems some past mistakes cannot be ever recoverd from.

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[msl2007]

I am not sure about your chances at admission, and I never want to squash dreams, but do you think you'll be able to pass med school? You said yourself that all your low grade classes were the pre-med ones. It is great that you did so well on the retakes, but in med school, things are harder and faster, and you can't retake all the courses in order to pass them. It would suck to try so hard to get in and then fail out. so if you want to do it, you should figure out a way to get through school. Then you can discuss that on interviews as well.

 

[Kuba]

I had a similar history (not as extreme) but I did have a few C's in the sciences and I failed Calc II once. I never had a 4.0 semester though ( or anything above 3.5) but I did get a 32 mcat and have plenty of interview invites in the osteopathic process. Yes, your academic history will raise a ton of red flags, but I think it can be done. However, you may want to take some more courses(are you in school this semester?) If not take another 12 credits or so in the tough sciences (like a biochem or cell bio or physiology course) to prove yourself.

 

[MaximusD]

Call some admissions directors.

Your raw scores are competitive for DO schools. But.. when they see those grades from the past they are either going to think 1) WOW that's improvement OR 2) How did this individual do so badly?

I think that if you have an excellent personal statement, some strong LORs, and some good clinical experience you may have a shot.. 8 W's and other failing scores make me pause, however.

It'd be best if you talk to someone who can give you a straight answer. THe only thing I know is my experience...

While my GPA is lower than your according to AACOMAS, I have gotten mostly B's throughout college with 2 W's and 2 C+'s. With a 3.25/3.05 GPA and a 32 MCAT, I only got three interviews from DO schools and got no love (so far) from MD schools. With your scores at what they are, I wouldn't give up on medical school though. Like I said... speaking with an advisor or an admissions director would be very beneficial.

Best of luck!

 

[noshie]

If all of your bad grades were in your first half of college or a little past that it shouldnt be that bad. Your MCAT is above the average for many DO schools so that will somewhat balance it out. Do you have any medical exposure? That I think will be the greatest deciding factor in your case.

 

[KBPRO86]

I am not sure about your chances at admission, and I never want to squash dreams, but do you think you'll be able to pass med school? You said yourself that all your low grade classes were the pre-med ones. It is great that you did so well on the retakes, but in med school, things are harder and faster, and you can't retake all the courses in order to pass them. It would suck to try so hard to get in and then fail out. so if you want to do it, you should figure out a way to get through school. Then you can discuss that on interviews as well.

I think i did bad in science classes because i simply did not put in enough time in those classes mainly due to my work, plus i had really bad study habits. my grades greatly improved when i cut down my hours at work in my senior year and became more focused...but all thats not gonna matter if an adcom just looks at my transcript, sees those bad grades and w's and fling my application to the side. how i wish i would be able to get even an interview so i can explain myself. I'm 100% sure i would pass medical school if i get in since my college experience and mistakes has made me a more mature individual...man, this is a mess.

 

[KBPRO86]

90 views, still no replies...i guess my med school dream is crushed...i talked recently talked to a premed advisor at my old school and she basically said chances are slim to none, even if i did a post-bacc program. thats why i came to SDn, and am getting the same vibe. i dont even know what to do with my BIO degree and i have no money to go back to college....wow am screwed.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

90 views, still no replies...i guess my med school dream is crushed...i talked recently talked to a premed advisor at my old school and she basically said chances are slim to none, even if i did a post-bacc program. thats why i came to SDn, and am getting the same vibe. i dont even know what to do with my BIO degree and i have no money to go back to college....wow am screwed.

Suck it up. Your undergrad grades aren't horrid, but the red flags exist. Take some post-bacc/pper level courses and do well on them. Your MCAT is fine, even for state MD programs ... it's your academic profile that sucks ... fix it, you know how.

Also, do EC/Med activitis/research ... and you'll be fine. Heck, DocMom claims to have had 27 Ws but she still got in .. given the circumstances are different, but still ... it's not over till it's over.

 

[KBPRO86]

Since i can't get any more financial aid for my school, my plan was to take out a citi student loan and do one more year of an informal post-bacc starting Fall 07. hopefull my 4.0 trend will continue for that one year. Am also thinking of retaking the MCat and shooting for a 32+ hopefully. assuming am successful in the above endeavors and i apply to all 24 D.O schools, do you guys think i can get into at least one...that's all i need 1 admission. if not i might be forced to go Pod or Chiro, since i really want to be in the medical field anyways.

 

[grinchick5]

Since i can't get any more financial aid for my school, my plan was to take out a citi student loan and do one more year of an informal post-bacc starting Fall 07. hopefull my 4.0 trend will continue for that one year. Am also thinking of retaking the MCat and shooting for a 32+ hopefully. assuming am successful in the above endeavors and i apply to all 24 D.O schools, do you guys think i can get into at least one...that's all i need 1 admission. if not i might be forced to go Pod or Chiro, since i really want to be in the medical field anyways.

Please, please, please don't take the MCAT again. Your score was solid.
What would you do if you're score went down? I can't find the exact number right now (I know it's on AAMC's website), but the percentage of people who re-take the MCAT and get a lower score is seriously scary.

 

[GreenShirt]

90 views, still no replies...i guess my med school dream is crushed...i talked recently talked to a premed advisor at my old school and she basically said chances are slim to none, even if i did a post-bacc program. thats why i came to SDn, and am getting the same vibe. i dont even know what to do with my BIO degree and i have no money to go back to college....wow am screwed.

The lovely pre-med advisors at my school also told me I had better chances of getting hit by lighting then getting into medical school. Being the rebel I am, I applied anyway. Currently, I've had 8 interview invites and 2 acceptances (all DO). The point is, it doesn't hurt to give it a shot.

HOWEVER, you really need to sit down and ask yourself these questions: Why healthcare? Why a doctoral degree? MD or DO? Could I accomplish my goals in healthcare with another degree? Why did I do so bad in my science courses? It is b/c I didn't spend enough time on them or am I not great at science? Can I handle the rigors of medical school? How do I know that I can?

I had to think long and hard about these questions. Having answered them, I feel confident about starting an Osteopathic program next year. Don't apply to Osteopathic programs, unless you really believe in Osteopathic philosophy. Otherwise, you're just going to end up with a chip on your shoulder.

If you prefer an MD, do a Science Masters or academic record enhancer program. If you can't afford another degree, consider the Carribean. Ross, SGU, and SABA all have good residency match rates in the US and you're only abroad for the first two years.

In short, don't let anyone tell you you're not good enough. But make sure that you know yourself inside-out before you go any further on the pre-med track.

If you do decide to go DO, get lots of clinical experince this year, spend time talking to DO's, and learning about Osteopathic philosophy. If you think its your cup of tea, then apply next year. Your stats should be sufficient enough to get interviews.

Good Luck!

 

[DoctorMom78]

Suck it up. Your undergrad grades aren't horrid, but the red flags exist. Take some post-bacc/pper level courses and do well on them. Your MCAT is fine, even for state MD programs ... it's your academic profile that sucks ... fix it, you know how.

Also, do EC/Med activitis/research ... and you'll be fine. Heck, DocMom claims to have had 27 Ws but she still got in .. given the circumstances are different, but still ... it's not over till it's over.

28 And I have the transcripts to prove it.

I don't think it is that hopeless. If you have bad grades or issues in the past, I think that they can be overlooked as long as you show an upward trend. Your MCAT is also good. How are your ECs? You need to have some really strong ECs to round out your application. Other than that, I think you have a chance. Don't give up! Good luck!

 

[twohearted]

You should be fine for DO as long as you have a 3.0 and above a 25 MCAT. I don't think you'll have a problem as long as you apply to a bunch of DO programs.

 

[scdocusc]

I agree with green shirt. If you are applying to D.O. schools as a result of your scores being to low instead of adopting the philosophy of medicine then dont go D.O.

 

[KBPRO86]

as for E.c's i have nothing spectacular....i've been volunteering at the E.R at my local General hospital and at a local doctors office for about a year and 7 months or so, i have also shadowed 2 D.O's (about 25-30 hrs for each doc)..i was able to contact one, and he said he will write me a letter if i ever needed one. i was also a member of the philosophy honor society. for community service, i have volunteered with the red cross, and have volunteered with this organization called H.E.L.P that feeds the homeless every christmas, i did that for 3 christmas seasons in a row. Also one of my 2 jobs in undergrad was working in a retirement home for 4 years...no other significant club memberships or research experience...As for letters of recommendation, my Histology prof and Anatomy and Physiology prof in undergrad have both agreed to write me one, i got A's in their classes, which they were amazed about, when i told them how hard i struggled in the premed courses. My Ancient philosophy prof is also gonna write me a letter, since for some reason he thinks i would make a great doc....Well that's all i have guys, nothing spectacular..both i hope it gets me interviews.

 

[KBPRO86]

I agree with green shirt. If you are applying to D.O. schools as a result of your scores being to low instead of adopting the philosophy of medicine then dont go D.O.

I dont Mind D.O or M.D, as long as am i physician, and i can help patients, thats all that matters. i never even shadowed an M.D, and i like the D.O's very much. from what i know, Both M.D and D.O's do the same thing anyways...and i dont care about the so called residency stigma, since i wanna go into family practice (Internal medicine) from the get go...so D.O suites me fine. to me it's not the Degree that matters, its what you do with it that counts.

 

[MaximusD]

I agree with green shirt. If you are applying to D.O. schools as a result of your scores being to low instead of adopting the philosophy of medicine then dont go D.O.

::yawns::

What is that philosophy, exactly, that makes it different from current MD philosophy?

OMM is cool... but what else?

please refer to my previous posts... MDs now have adopted the psychosocial approach. I will also admit that I think DO students get more focus on clinical experience than on reserach, but these aren't significant differences to be saying that someone has to adopt a given "philosophy".

Being a DO isn't joining a cult for God's sake.

 

[Premedlover]

I think i did bad in science classes because i simply did not put in enough time in those classes mainly due to my work, plus i had really bad study habits. my grades greatly improved when i cut down my hours at work in my senior year and became more focused...but all thats not gonna matter if an adcom just looks at my transcript, sees those bad grades and w's and fling my application to the side. how i wish i would be able to get even an interview so i can explain myself. I'm 100% sure i would pass medical school if i get in since my college experience and mistakes has made me a more mature individual...man, this is a mess.

Personally, I think you should try to get into a graduate level program. Many schools have a one year biomedical science masters program. If you go through this program and do well you will show the admissions commitees that you can handle graduate level courses something that a postbac won't show. In addition you will qualify for finanical aid since its graduate coursework. Check out Nova Southeastern http://medsciences.nova.edu/aboutbs.html
or Barry University http://www.barry.edu/bms/accelerated.htm (These are the two I know of). And good luck bro!

 

[grinchick5]

as for E.c's i have nothing spectacular....i've been volunteering at the E.R at my local General hospital and at a local doctors office for about a year and 7 months or so, i have also shadowed 2 D.O's (about 25-30 hrs for each doc)..i was able to contact one, and he said he will write me a letter if i ever needed one. i was also a member of the philosophy honor society. for community service, i have volunteered with the red cross, and have volunteered with this organization called H.E.L.P that feeds the homeless every christmas, i did that for 3 christmas seasons in a row. Also one of my 2 jobs in undergrad was working in a retirement home for 4 years...no other significant club memberships or research experience...As for letters of recommendation, my Histology prof and Anatomy and Physiology prof in undergrad have both agreed to write me one, i got A's in their classes, which they were amazed about, when i told them how hard i struggled in the premed courses. My Ancient philosophy prof is also gonna write me a letter, since for some reason he thinks i would make a great doc....Well that's all i have guys, nothing spectacular..both i hope it gets me interviews.

I think you're selling yourself short. You've done a lot more than many applicants, I'm sure. Why not apply and see how it goes? If it doesn't work out, take it from there.

 

[KBPRO86]

Personally, I think you should try to get into a graduate level program. Many schools have a one year biomedical science masters program. If you go through this program and do well you will show the admissions commitees that you can handle graduate level courses something that a postbac won't show. In addition you will qualify for finanical aid since its graduate coursework. Check out Nova Southeastern http://medsciences.nova.edu/aboutbs.html
or Barry University http://www.barry.edu/bms/accelerated.htm (These are the two I know of). And good luck bro!

So its SMP or post-bacc...but i heard Smp's are hard to get into?

 

[rdeemed23]

Hey, i have a very very similar situation to yours, and i still got in..just be ready to explain yourself if you get interviews man, AT my WVsom interview, my interviewer wasn't really even buying my excuses for my bad grades and her exact words was like " dont try to give excuses, when its obvious you slacked off...." so i thought i was done basically. then i got the biggest suprise when i got an acceptance in my email..at my other interview PCOM-Ga, i got asked about my W's, but i didnt think they saw that as a big deal and i got accepted! so nothing is impossible man..by the way i think my MCAT score helped a lot also cause i got a 39...so suck it up, apply and keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Premedlover]

So its SMP or post-bacc...but i heard Smp's are hard to get into?

You're right you're probably going to have to do a postbac program or SMP. But be careful of the postbac program because most of them will only do you good at the school you take it at. So if you want to go to LECOM or PCOM or wherever take their postbac program, I'm only saying this cause I use to work in an admissions office at a DO school. You should really consider the masters program route. Some are easier to get into that others. For instance Barry will most likely accept you because of your MCAT score, Nova is a little harder to get into because once you finish their program your automatically admitted to the DO school and all the classes you make a 90 or above in go towards your DO degree and you don't have to take them again in med school. But you've already proven to yourself that you can handle the science coursework by acheiving a 4.0 your senior year so I think you have a good chance. Oh, and make sure you shadow a DO and try to get some healthcare experience. I hope this helps!

 

[NPEMTIV]

Hi, sry for another do i have a chance thread, but i really need input.
So i graduated from VCU in May 2006 after 5 years of undergrad, and i feel that my academic record will be the ultimate stumbling block for med school to ...

Screw the odds. Go for it and keep going until you get in. If you want it, you'll get it with enough persistence. I used to have an article about a guy who had a 1.0 undergraduate GPA when he decided to go to medical school. It took a lot of work, but he made it eventually. He founded one of the premed websites, but I can't find it in my bookmarks, but the jist is if he can anyone can.

 

[TerpDO]

take it from a guy who has applied three times total in his life. from what I see you have a solid shot at D.O. schools because they don't average your GPA, now it is probably too late this year to apply (some may disagree, and a few schools like Touro NYC that recently opened up are still options) but I would apply the first chance you get, maybe July for the next cycle. Now while you are applying I would get the EC's up and lots of clinical exp. b/c I don't think you mentioned too much about that (just work). Your grades are very good after the retakes and if you interview well and can explain your turnaround in academic performance to the schools without seeming like you lucked out, then you should have a solid shot at an acceptance. Applying early also helps because the process is a monster and even if you don't get in on your first try (most ppl don't), you will be familiar with the process the next time and it will only take you half the time to get it done if you should need to go through it again.

Don't wait 2 or 3 more years until you have a 34 MCAT and 3.8 GPA to apply because an acceptance is an acceptance and there are no guarantees for anyone no matter what their academic record is. Bottom line: you have to up your chances by applying multiple times (if necc.) and broadly each time. good luck

 

[GreenShirt]

as for E.c's i have nothing spectacular....i've been volunteering at the E.R at my local General hospital and at a local doctors office for about a year and 7 months or so, i have also shadowed 2 D.O's (about 25-30 hrs for each doc)..i was able to contact one, and he said he will write me a letter if i ever needed one. i was also a member of the philosophy honor society. for community service, i have volunteered with the red cross, and have volunteered with this organization called H.E.L.P that feeds the homeless every christmas, i did that for 3 christmas seasons in a row. Also one of my 2 jobs in undergrad was working in a retirement home for 4 years...no other significant club memberships or research experience...As for letters of recommendation, my Histology prof and Anatomy and Physiology prof in undergrad have both agreed to write me one, i got A's in their classes, which they were amazed about, when i told them how hard i struggled in the premed courses. My Ancient philosophy prof is also gonna write me a letter, since for some reason he thinks i would make a great doc....Well that's all i have guys, nothing spectacular..both i hope it gets me interviews.

I agree with GrinChick....you have plenty of great experience. Reflect on what you've leanred from all those experiences and how they have influenced you to become a physician. You'll have plenty to write about for you personal statement and supplementals. Think positive.

Just apply! (Keep the other options open as back up plans. Since you've already done the pre-med curriculum, you might not qualify for a post-bac program, but you can do other Masters-level prgorams. For example, Loyola University in Chicago others a one year academic record enhancer program where you take upper level medical biology courses and recieve a masters of medical science.)

 

[GreenShirt]

::yawns::

What is that philosophy, exactly, that makes it different from current MD philosophy?

OMM is cool... but what else?

please refer to my previous posts... MDs now have adopted the psychosocial approach. I will also admit that I think DO students get more focus on clinical experience than on reserach, but these aren't significant differences to be saying that someone has to adopt a given "philosophy".

Being a DO isn't joining a cult for God's sake.

Sorry, I don't mean to imply that it's a cult. You just don't want to end up with a chip on your shoulder when your parents and family are asking you for the millionth time why you didn't go MD (or is that just my parents?). You want to be proud that you're a DO, not feel that you sold yourself short. IMO.