AMCAS vent thread

[AlohaSpicedHam]

I don't know if this has been posted already on here or not, but I am getting very frustrated and fed up with the new traffic rules for this year. Why did AMCAS ever make "plan to enroll" an option if it is non-binding and relies upon students to withdraw applications at their own discretion. In my opinion, once plan to enroll is selected all acceptances besides the chosen school should be automatically withdrawn by AMCAS and the student can only remain on waitlists. The commit to enroll deadline should also be uniform across every school, not how some schools have commit deadlines in June and others in July as it is now.

Also, I have heard many adcoms state that this cycle is more drawn out than usual and it is frustrating them as well. I submitted my app on 5/31/18 and will not know where I'm going exactly a whole year later. Why aren't the deadlines pushed forward a month or two. Why wait until April 30th to institute the first deadline.

These are serious questions that I have and I'm hoping others can chime in on their opinion of these new changes so that hopefully we can save future pre-meds some unnecessary headaches.

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[chaim123]

The commit to enroll deadline should also be uniform across every school, not how some schools have commit deadlines in June and others in July as it is now.

That wouldn't work at all. If every school had the same CTE deadline, then on one day, everyone would need to commit to the school they have chosen, and withdraw from all waitlists. This would eliminate all waitlist movement, which is not the goal of CTE.

Also, I have heard many adcoms state that this cycle is more drawn out than usual and it is frustrating them as well. I submitted my app on 5/31/18 and will not know where I'm going exactly a whole year later. Why aren't the deadlines pushed forward a month or two. Why wait until April 30th to institute the first deadline.

This is not new this year. April 30th has always been the day that students were asked to choose one school, and then waitlist movement would happen in May. While it may seem like a while, many schools don't have all their decisions out until March, and then April its time for revisit so students can make a good decision. I'm not sure how much earlier would be a feasible date.

 

[gyngyn]

That wouldn't work at all. If every school had the same CTE deadline, then on one day, everyone would need to commit to the school they have chosen, and withdraw from all waitlists. This would eliminate all waitlist movement, which is not the goal of CTE.



April 30th has always been the day that students were asked to choose one school, and then waitlist movement would happen in May.

This is not the problem.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

That wouldn't work at all. If every school had the same CTE deadline, then on one day, everyone would need to commit to the school they have chosen, and withdraw from all waitlists. This would eliminate all waitlist movement, which is not the goal of CTE.



This is not new this year. April 30th has always been the day that students were asked to choose one school, and then waitlist movement would happen in May. While it may seem like a while, many schools don't have all their decisions out until March, and then April its time for revisit so students can make a good decision. I'm not sure how much earlier would be a feasible date.

Regarding the CTE comment, after you plan to enroll you can wait on waitlists but only hold one acceptance. That way people with multiple acceptances relinquish all but one, allowing for waitlist movement before everyone must make a final decision.

Regarding the April 30th date, I know it has been in effect for a while, I just don't understand why everything isn't pushed forward.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

This is not the problem.

I was just trying to identify some areas that can be improved. I don't know what the best move would be

 

[Toutie]

@gyngyn do you expect some/many/most/all schools to move to mandatory non-refundable deposits next year?

 

[907914]

I submitted my app on 5/31/18 and will not know where I'm going exactly a whole year later.

Not to be a Debby downer, but this late in the cycle what makes you think that you will be going somewhere? If you don’t have an acceptance yet, how is it the medical school’s and application system’s fault that if you don’t know where you are or if you will be going somewhere? There is likely still waitlist movement, but my guess would be that the majority of it is minimal movement.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

Not to be a Debby downer, but this late in the cycle what makes you think that you will be going somewhere? If you don’t have an acceptance yet, how is it the medical school’s and application system’s fault that if you don’t know where you are or if you will be going somewhere? There is likely still waitlist movement, but my guess would be that the majority of it is minimal movement.

I'm lucky enough to have had multiple acceptances and waitlist positions, I just have yet to make a final decision. Other people that I know are waiting for a decision from the single place they are waitlisted at.

Because they don't know if they're in or not they may have to reapply later than they would like to because the new cycle opens in a couple days.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

Because was under threat (more likely their own fear) by DOE for possible restraint of trade by requiring independent competing institutions, namely the medical schools, to follow its protocol on acceptance timeline, namely demanding all schools following its April 30th deadline. The PTE/CTE system was designed tp specifically make it up to the institutions to set their own requirements and policies for student to adhere to.

The politics behind this go much deeper

Yeah, lawsuits and bureaucracy are sticking their fingers deeper and deeper into our practice and we're taking the hit for it. In the end the schools will always fill their spots and premeds will do whatever it takes to get in, but this process is needlessly drawn out and needs to be fixed.

 

[907914]

I'm lucky enough to have had multiple acceptances and waitlist positions, I just have yet to make a final decision. Other people that I know are waiting for a decision from the single place they are waitlisted at.

Because they don't know if they're in or not they may have to reapply later than they would like to because the new cycle opens in a couple days.

Firstly, the new cycle opened today.

Secondly, if you have multiple acceptances then isn’t it your active choice to decide to wait on these schools? They have no obligation to you.

 

[faerie62]

So assume you're going to the one acceptance that you're holding? (unless you're currently holding multiple, in which case you would be breaking the rules).
In this respect I don't see how your situation in particular is different from any other cycle.

 

[907914]

So assume you're going to the one acceptance that you're holding? (unless you're currently holding multiple, in which case you would be breaking the rules).
In this respect I don't see how your situation in particular is different from any other cycle.

Seconded. OP is the one taking advantage of there non-binding system while simultaneously complaining about it.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

Firstly, the new cycle opened today.

Secondly, if you have multiple acceptances then isn’t it your active choice to decide to wait on these schools? They have no obligation to you.

Firstly, people get rejected from waitlists in mid July which is relatively late in the cycle, so look up timelines before you comment.

Secondly, I made this thread to brainstorm ideas on how to make this system better for other people in the future, not to whine about any obligations I feel like I'm owed. I'll be happy wherever I end up going, but just because my outcome is great doesn't mean we can't work together to make it better for people that are not fortunate enough to wait on multiple acceptances.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

So assume you're going to the one acceptance that you're holding? (unless you're currently holding multiple, in which case you would be breaking the rules).
In this respect I don't see how your situation in particular is different from any other cycle.

I'm holding one acceptance.

My situation is perfectly fine. This thread isn't about me. It's about people who are sitting in limbo in mid July praying at night that they won't have to reapply and not knowing when they are going to hear back.

 

[907914]

I submitted my app on 5/31/18 and will not know where I'm going exactly a whole year later.

This comes off very strongly as a complaint. “I hold multiple acceptances, but it is the AMCAS Application’s fault that I am still unsure of where I am going.”

they would like to because the new cycle opens in a couple days.

As a savvy applicant, they should be applying as though they are not going to get in. You don’t wait on the hope of getting off the waitlist. You get proactive. If they are late reapplicants, that is their fault not the applications.

just because my outcome is great doesn't mean we can't work together to make it better for people

LOL We have literally zero influence over how AMCAS does their business.

 

[907914]

[QUOTE="AlohaSpicedHam, post: 20972945, member: It's about people who are sitting in limbo in mid July praying at night that they won't have to reapply and not knowing when they are going to hear back.
[/QUOTE]
This is not new. Literally every cycle has students who are on waitlists late. You are complaining/venting about literally nothing. “People on waitlists upset they are on waitlists and want to be told something now.” Like...that is not new.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

This comes off very strongly as a complaint. “I hold multiple acceptances, but it is the AMCAS Application’s fault that I am still unsure of where I am going.”

As a savvy applicant, they should be applying as though they are not going to get in. You don’t wait on the hope of getting off the waitlist. You get proactive. If they are late reapplicants, that is their fault not the applications.

LOL We have literally zero influence over how AMCAS does their business.

I am waitlisted at multiple places so yes it is their fault that I still don't know where I'm going.

Applications cost thousands of dollars. People scrap together money to apply once. Telling people to just be proactive and apply is very short sighted.

Yeah we have very little influence now, but there's no reason why we can change stuff in the future or reach people who can. Is that stupid to think. Sure. But I'm stuck waiting to hear back from schools so I may as well do something in my spare time.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

[QUOTE="AlohaSpicedHam, post: 20972945, member: It's about people who are sitting in limbo in mid July praying at night that they won't have to reapply and not knowing when they are going to hear back.

This is not new. Literally every cycle has students who are on waitlists late. You are complaining/venting about literally nothing. “People on waitlists upset they are on waitlists and want to be told something now.” Like...that is not new.
[/QUOTE]
Who cares if it's not new. Just cuz stuff has been this way for so long doesn't mean it's impervious to change.

 

[907914]

I am waitlisted at multiple places so yes it is their fault that I still don't know where I'm going.

You have an acceptance though. No one is forcing you to “hold on” to hope with other schools. Commit to enroll now, and if you hear back on another waitlist position great! If not, cool. You don’t have to be held back. You are in charge of making the active choice not to choose the school you already have an acceptance to.

Applications cost thousands of dollars. People scrap together money to apply once. Telling people to just be proactive and apply is very short sighted.

There are two options:
1) Wait to see if you get accepted off the waitlist and then apply again when you don’t get in except now you are late in the cycle and are more likely to become a thrice reapplicant
2) Start the same application you are already planning on redoing if you don’t get in off the waitlist, except now you are an early applicant and have a better shot.

Either way, it is great if you get off the waitlist. But either way you are still intending to reapply, just one of the options is proactive. It does cost a lot, but in the grand scheme of things, one application cycle is like a month of MED school tuition. QUOTE="AlohaSpicedHam, post: 20972950, member: 964250"]
Yeah we have very little influence now
[/QUOTE] And we never have and we never will. AMCAS provides a service. We are not their customers, the medical schools are their customers.

 

[Goro]

I don't know if this has been posted already on here or not, but I am getting very frustrated and fed up with the new traffic rules for this year. Why did AMCAS ever make "plan to enroll" an option if it is non-binding and relies upon students to withdraw applications at their own discretion. In my opinion, once plan to enroll is selected all acceptances besides the chosen school should be automatically withdrawn by AMCAS and the student can only remain on waitlists. The commit to enroll deadline should also be uniform across every school, not how some schools have commit deadlines in June and others in July as it is now.

Also, I have heard many adcoms state that this cycle is more drawn out than usual and it is frustrating them as well. I submitted my app on 5/31/18 and will not know where I'm going exactly a whole year later. Why aren't the deadlines pushed forward a month or two. Why wait until April 30th to institute the first deadline.

These are serious questions that I have and I'm hoping others can chime in on their opinion of these new changes so that hopefully we can save future pre-meds some unnecessary headaches.

You have one accept. You know exactly where you're going.

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn do you expect some/many/most/all schools to move to mandatory non-refundable deposits next year?

It seems that the UC schools are not ready to do that at this time.
We're going to ride this out and send a letter to the AAMC (all the MD schools except the new ones) with our recommendations.
I'm open to suggestions...

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

It seems that the UC schools are not ready to do that at this time.
We're going to ride this out and send a letter to the AAMC (all the MD schools except the new ones) with our recommendations.
I'm open to suggestions...

What are the barriers to moving up the April 30th deadline to something a bit sooner so that final decisions are made before the June 1st opening of the next cycle? Is this even a problem? I thought it was but many of the responses I received on this thread seem to state otherwise

 

[gyngyn]

What are the barriers to moving up the April 30th deadline to something a bit sooner so that final decisions are made before the June 1st opening of the next cycle? Is this even a problem? I thought it was but many of the responses I received on this thread seem to state otherwise

Financial aid seems to be a rate limiter here.

My beef is that applicants used to be able to stay on a waitlist until school started. Now they are being compelled to drop them early or lose their seat!

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

Financial aid seems to be a rate limiter here.

My beef is that applicants used to be able to stay on a waitlist until school started. Now they are being compelled to drop them early or lose their seat!

That last part is my biggest gripe. I'm waitlisted at my top two choices and need to commit tomorrow at my only acceptance or risk losing it

So would a for profit school like cal northstate be able to finalize a class earlier because they are not, to my limited knowledge, reliant upon federal loans?

 

[candbgirl]

I'm lucky enough to have had multiple acceptances and waitlist positions, I just have yet to make a final decision.

That last part is my biggest gripe. I'm waitlisted at my top two choices and need to commit tomorrow at my only acceptance or risk losing it

So do you have multiple acceptances that you haven’t made a decision on or do you have one acceptance? Either way wanting to change the system can be a dream of yours but you won’t be able to do anything for many years. You are lucky because you don’t have to reapply. You can and should start making plans for living and learning where you have been accepted . At some point you will have to just go with the acceptance you have.

 

[gyngyn]

That last part is my biggest gripe. I'm waitlisted at my top two choices and need to commit tomorrow at my only acceptance or risk losing it

So would a for profit school like cal northstate be able to finalize a class earlier because they are not, to my limited knowledge, reliant upon federal loans?

You have my sincerest condolences regarding the position you have found yourself in. This should not have happened.

I cannot explain or defend CNU.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

Every school can choose to make its own policies . Federal loans have nothing to do with it

Gyngyn stated that financial aid was a rate limiter to moving up the April 30th deadline.

 

[gyngyn]

Gyngyn stated that financial aid was a rate limiter to moving up the April 30th deadline.

Not federal aid, financial aid packages.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

Not federal aid, financial aid packages.

oh I misunderstood. My apologies

 

[wontonsoup]

Firstly, the new cycle opened today.

Secondly, if you have multiple acceptances then isn’t it your active choice to decide to wait on these schools? They have no obligation to you.

Come on man, people have all kinds of important reasons to wait on schools -- work situation for the spouse, proximity to family, etc. Just because you get in somewhere doesn't mean you don't also deserve to keep a spot on the waitlist offered to you. Do you really see the OP so clearly in the wrong here? I don't see the harm in trying to reduce some of the anxiety and frustration that this process causes in so many applicants.

 

[deleted962973]

This is not new. Literally every cycle has students who are on waitlists late. You are complaining/venting about literally nothing. “People on waitlists upset they are on waitlists and want to be told something now.” Like...that is not new.

You are getting mad at OP for no reason. He/she did everything correct and is simply expressing dismay at how late the cycle runs compared to when schools start. Adcoms on this forum have complained about CTE/PTE too so I don’t get why you’re acting like this is an invalid complaint. This new system is screwing over both applicants and admissions committees.

 

[907914]

You are getting mad at OP for no reason. He/she did everything correct and is simply expressing dismay at how late the cycle runs compared to when schools start. Adcoms on this forum have complained about CTE/PTE too so I don’t get why you’re acting like this is an invalid complaint. This new system is screwing over both applicants and admissions committees.

Yah, I don’t know what that was about. OP is just frustrated with the system, they have the right to complain about it. My bad, don’t know what angle I was coming from.

 

[deleted962973]

Yah, I don’t know what that was about. OP is just frustrated with the system, they have the right to complain about it. My bad, don’t know what angle I was coming from.

Np MemeLord, I always get a bit annoyed whenever I see current applicants defending the system with the whole “that’s just the way it’s always been!” mentality, so I got defensive on this too. I think it’s okay to want the system to be better. At this point, the process is extraordinarily expensive, confusing, and disproportionately unfair to poor/lower-middle class applicants. I can’t believe AMCAS hasn’t moved towards a match-style process already. TMDSAS has it right on that one.

 

[907914]

Np MemeLord, I always get a bit annoyed whenever I see current applicants defending the system with the whole “that’s just the way it’s always been!” mentality, so I get defensive on this too. I think it’s okay to want the system to be better. At this point, the process is extraordinarily expensive, confusing, and disproportionately unfair to poor/lower-middle class applicants. I can’t believe AMCAS hasn’t moved towards a match-style process already. TMDSAS has it right on that one.

Do you just submit your application with ‘favorites’ and they assign you a school?

I think that works in Texas because Texans actually want to stay in Texas. I feel like the logistics are more difficult once you look at 150+ schools across the country.

 

[Lucca]

Given that people are compelled to drop waitlists or lose their spot earlier now, I think the window to make decisions should be longer and start earlier. I understand I’m engaged in wishful thinking right now, but i think that would help people who are essentially forced into very short decision windows at the very end of the cycle.

Why are there non rolling schools in the age of the internet?

IMO the Michigan admissions team should just teach every single medical school how to run an admissions office. At least from the applicants side they were the most transparent, timely, and easy to communicate with of any medical school office (in addition to being rly nice)

 

[deleted962973]

Do you just submit your application with ‘favorites’ and they assign you a school?

I think that works in Texas because Texans actually want to stay in Texas. I feel like the logistics are more difficult once you look at 150+ schools across the country.

Tbf, the residency match is a nationwide process and that seems to work pretty well, with most med students matching to one of their top three choices regardless of where they are in the country. This obviously won't happen with a med school match because there are way fewer seats:applicants than in residency, but imo it's still a vast improvement over the current system.

I didn't apply TMDSAS, but this is my understanding of how it works. Applicants can get multiple offers of acceptance during the pre-match period, and I think these offers stay valid even if you rank a school where you didn't get a pre-match offer higher than any school that you did get an offer at. Then during the match period (which is in January), you rank all the schools you interviewed at, and get matched to one. If you don't match to any, there's still a rolling admissions process post-match. I imagine the matching algorithm is similar to the residency match algorithm, in which applicant preferences are privileged over med school/residency preferences. Overall, I think the timing of the cycle as well as the finality of the match process, in case you did match, helps make this process a lot more transparent than the rubbish that is the AMCAS PTE/CTE.

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

Yah, I don’t know what that was about. OP is just frustrated with the system, they have the right to complain about it. My bad, don’t know what angle I was coming from.

I hope you have a better experience with this process than many of us have. Good luck to you. I wish you all the best.

 

[Lucca]

Do you just submit your application with ‘favorites’ and they assign you a school?

I think that works in Texas because Texans actually want to stay in Texas. I feel like the logistics are more difficult once you look at 150+ schools across the country.

Texans stay in Texas because of cost. Otherwise most premeds i know would’ve definitely left.

 

[907914]

Texas can dictate a statewide match system as state law, regulations, and/or subsidy forces the schools to do so. Since there are 50 states, each that fund or subsidize schools in their own state as well as dozens of private schools, each a separate entity, there is no way to dictate a nationwide match system. It has been discussed for years and will never come to pass. While the LCME is the legally recognized accrediting body by the federal DOE, funding is provided as loans to students as opposed directly to schools. Therefore, there is no funding leverage over the schools to adhere to a match system

The situation is directly opposite in residency. The NRMP can dictate matching nationally as the ACGME is recognized by the federal Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services as the overall accrediting body. A program must be accredited by ACGME in order to get Medicare funds, which provides money for vast majority of residency slots in the country.

So the only way to implement a national med school match system would be either a) Making the accrediting body a governmental body or b) change the entirety of med school financial aid and loan servicing.

 

[deleted804295]

Hello. Do we need to check our emails every single day during July/ secondary season to see if we get secondaries?

 

[deleted962973]

Hello. Do we need to check our emails every single day during July/ secondary season to see if we get secondaries?

It’s more important to check your emails in a timely manner when you start getting interview invites. I remember once I checked my email 5 hours after getting an interview invite last cycle, and a full day of interviews (the day I wanted) had already been snatched up. You should set up push notifications to your phone.

 

[deleted972488]

Hello. Do we need to check our emails every single day during July/ secondary season to see if we get secondaries?

Cue gonnif saying this is a full-time job...

Just make sure you return the secondaries within two weeks. That doesn’t necessarily mean you have to check EVERY day.

 

[Toutie]

Hello. Do we need to check our emails every single day during July/ secondary season to see if we get secondaries?

It also doesn't hurt to check your spam every week or so. It is not that unusual for important notifications to end up there instead of where they should be.

 

[Campana]

Hello. Do we need to check our emails every single day during July/ secondary season to see if we get secondaries?

This always makes me laugh (not making fun, it's just funny to me). I check my email constantly because that's one of the many streams where all the information about my schedule comes from: work email, multiple IM work tools, text, groupme, shutterfly (goes to email too...but the calendar changes), personal email, kids email (with permission of course!), husband's email (with permission of course!), gamechanger, seesaw, facebook groups, classdojo, remind, maybe more. I have so many different routes folks use to send updates, requests, schedule changes, notices, etc. that I have no idea how I'd know what's going on without a smart phone. Working, schooling, parenting super active kids is insane.

But, I digress...

TLDR: YES, check email and email spam as often as you'd like to be aware of secondaries

After secondaries are sent, you can add checking each school's application portal to your list of things to check as often as you'd like to be aware of any changes/interview invites.

 

[907914]

After secondaries are sent, you can add checking each school's application portal to your list of things to check as often as you'd like to be aware of any changes/interview invites

Same username and password across 20 websites FTW

 

[AlohaSpicedHam]

Hello. Do we need to check our emails every single day during July/ secondary season to see if we get secondaries?

It helps to have a spreadsheet with links to every secondary website so you don't have to search through your email or bookmarked sites everytime you want to access them. In my experience, your interview details are usually on the secondary websites also.

 

[907914]

Just to add, for all the premed OCD neurosis, this is where you should actually be OCD!

That’s why we practice out neuroticism for the year beforehand with the primary. Just like a muscle, neuroticism gets slow and lazy if it isn’t used enough.