Anatomical Relationships/Landmarks

[phospho]

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Was wondering if there was a website/book/anything that had a compilation of anatomical relationships and landmarks we could use while cutting. We're doing head and neck right now, and it seems impossible to find some things without looking for something else.

For example:

the phrenic nerve sits on top of the anterior scalene
the subclavian vein passes anterior to anterior scalene
the abducens runs alongside the internal carotid artery
the brachial plexus is between the anterior and middle scalene
the hypoglossal nerve runs right beside the greater horn of the hyoid

etc...

Have any of you had issues like this before? Am I thinking about this the wrong way? The nerves/arteries/veins are driving me nuts - that's why i'm looking for something - anything - that can help me identify stuff on my body and lab practicals.

If you don't know of a source, can you tell me some relationships you use for head and neck when dissecting or identifying structures on your body?

😍

 

[motorcycleguy]

I'm dissecting tomorrow so I'll let you know if I or my classmates come up with anything.

 

[dude1344]

i've been looking for something like this as well... I've done a quick google search but haven't come across anything useful yet.

What I have been doing is compiling my own list of relationships for the head/neck region on my own whenever I run across one.

H&N makes upper limb seem stupid. 😛

 

[Dwindlin]

H&N makes upper limb seem stupid. 😛

👍

 

[ensuii]

It'd be awesome to make a large compilation of these landmarks but I think it might be pretty hard. The general rule is that it's always a good idea to trace any nerve/artery/vein throughout it's entire courses. A lot of atlas' such as Thieme's have this info readily available next to any diagrams but I know my Rohen's and Netter's are lacking...honestly, when I'm studying I'll either google/wiki the nerve/artery/vein name+course and use Rohen's to confirm. If you're learning the brachial plexus, Thieme has an INSANELY good section on it imho.

 

[phospho]

i've been looking for something like this as well... I've done a quick google search but haven't come across anything useful yet.

What I have been doing is compiling my own list of relationships for the head/neck region on my own whenever I run across one.

H&N makes upper limb seem stupid. 😛

I guess this is the way to go. I've been compiling my own list, and I haven't found anything online. I've done so many google searches, but can't come up with anything. It definitely makes upper limb seem stupid.

It'd be awesome to make a large compilation of these landmarks but I think it might be pretty hard. The general rule is that it's always a good idea to trace any nerve/artery/vein throughout it's entire courses. A lot of atlas' such as Thieme's have this info readily available next to any diagrams but I know my Rohen's and Netter's are lacking...honestly, when I'm studying I'll either google/wiki the nerve/artery/vein name+course and use Rohen's to confirm. If you're learning the brachial plexus, Thieme has an INSANELY good section on it imho.

How has rohen been working out for you? Do you use it before going into lab to cut? Is it confusing with all the other labels/terms that you don't have to know?

 

[ensuii]

Here's my pre-lab sequence:

1.) Read the lab manual for the particular lab visualizing muscles/nerves/arteries without looking it up
2.) Reread in a few hours stopping to looking things up in Thiemes (memorizing courses/pathways entirely...ie, right phrenic sits on top of anterior scalene, brachiocephalic trunk, anterior to hilum of the lung accompanied with pericardiophrenic artery, pierces caval hiatus with IVC)
3.) Look at Rohen's for the same structure the morning of lab

Usually, before a test I'll flip through pages in Rohen and try to identify structures without looking at the labels. For me, its a better use of time than actually going to lab since my instructors do a really good job of cleaning stuff up. So far it's worked pretty well...we're 2/3s the way through and out of 80 tags I've missed 8 (5 of which I was just being ******ed and not looking at what was tagged specifically--I wrote anterior scalene m. when phrenic n. was tagged, head of radius even though no osteology is tagged, etc.)

BTW, I have the Rohen's CD on my computer so for every structure, I open up a new window and cross-reference the visual...each ID takes about a minute or so but I generally know things cold if it lists 2-4 images for the same structure. Hope this helps!

 

[ensuii]

+Acland's on weekends 😛

 

[unsung]

Why don't we start our own list here? We are also doing head & neck now, so I'll definitely contribute.

 

[phospho]

Here's my pre-lab sequence:

1.) Read the lab manual for the particular lab visualizing muscles/nerves/arteries without looking it up
2.) Reread in a few hours stopping to looking things up in Thiemes (memorizing courses/pathways entirely...ie, right phrenic sits on top of anterior scalene, brachiocephalic trunk, anterior to hilum of the lung accompanied with pericardiophrenic artery, pierces caval hiatus with IVC)
3.) Look at Rohen's for the same structure the morning of lab

Usually, before a test I'll flip through pages in Rohen and try to identify structures without looking at the labels. For me, its a better use of time than actually going to lab since my instructors do a really good job of cleaning stuff up. So far it's worked pretty well...we're 2/3s the way through and out of 80 tags I've missed 8 (5 of which I was just being ******ed and not looking at what was tagged specifically--I wrote anterior scalene m. when phrenic n. was tagged, head of radius even though no osteology is tagged, etc.)

BTW, I have the Rohen's CD on my computer so for every structure, I open up a new window and cross-reference the visual...each ID takes about a minute or so but I generally know things cold if it lists 2-4 images for the same structure. Hope this helps!

awesome post... thanks for the info!

 

[phospho]

Why don't we start our own list here? We are also doing head & neck now, so I'll definitely contribute.

that would be awesome if we could do that!

here is what I have up to now:

the phrenic nerve sits on top of the anterior scalene

the subclavian vein passes anterior to the anterior scalene

the abducens runs alongside the internal carotid artery

the brachial plexus is between the anterior and middle scalene

the hypoglossal nerve runs right beside the greater horn of the hyoid

posterior digastric connects to hyoid bone by going right in between the lower bellies of the stylohyoid

the angle between the stylohyoid m. and anterior digastric muscle is smaller than the angle between the anterior digastric and posterior digastric muscles (personal observation - to tell the stylohyoid m. and posterior digastric apart)

the recurrent laryngeal nerve passes by from the posterior side of the thyroid gland

ansa lies within the carotid sheath and is anterior to the common carotid and internal jugular vein

vagus nerve passes anteriorly to subclavian artery into the thorax

the SCM branch (off the occipital artery) loops over the hypoglossal nerve

 

[dude1344]

- superior thyroid a relates to external laryngeal n
- inferior thyroid a relates to recurrent laryngeal n
- superficial temporal a runs with auriculotemporal n
- roots of auriculotemporal n encircles the middle meningeal a

more to come.

 

[engineeredout]

Water flows under the bridge.

 

[aggie08]

the angle between the stylohyoid m. and anterior digastric muscle is smaller than the angle between the anterior digastric and posterior digastric muscles (personal observation - to tell the stylohyoid m. and posterior digastric apart)

I am so confused by this one, haha! Dangit, my test is tomorrow.


Stylohyoid connects to hyoid gone and ant/post digastric connect by a ligament. Doesn't that allow you to differentiate?

 

[aggie08]

- superior thyroid a relates to external laryngeal n
- inferior thyroid a relates to recurrent laryngeal n
- superficial temporal a runs with auriculotemporal n
- roots of auriculotemporal n encircles the middle meningeal a

more to come.

internal branch of superior laryngeal n. pierces thyrohyoid membrane with superior laryngeal artery (branch of superior thryoid a.)

 

[phospho]

I am so confused by this one, haha! Dangit, my test is tomorrow.


Stylohyoid connects to hyoid gone and ant/post digastric connect by a ligament. Doesn't that allow you to differentiate?

Don't let that confuse you!!! you are absolutely right... when we were cutting, we had some bodies that had so much fat that I couldn't see the ligament, so I needed to find a way to tell them apart... best of luck tomorrow!

 

[phospho]

- roots of auriculotemporal n encircles the middle meningeal a

more to come.

dude, thank you for that! Been trying to remember this relationship all week! 🙂

 

[ensuii]

I have nightmares of fat and fascia.

 

[phospho]

I have nightmares of fat and fascia.

We used a hand saw today to cut our body's head in half (midsagittal cut). For some reason, they wouldn't let us use the electric saws we used to open the thoracic cavity, because it seems that those saws don't cut skin.

I was trying to get a grip on the right half of the face so that the head would stop moving back and forth with the saw (I had already skinned the entire neck the few days before, so as you can imagine, there wasn't too much that was holding the head to the body - I didn't want to decapitate her). After I finished sawing, I realized that during this whole time, I had my index finger in her right eye.

I slowly pulled out my finger (which was probably as deep as the point where you're touching her sphenoid's greater wing/orbital fissure). The eye was completely destroyed, i.e. vitreous humor leaking out, a disfigured body looking straight up at me with this weird ass looking liquid gushing out of her eye, etc... Add to that the fact that since we did a midsagittal cut, we had the sphenoid sinus leaking out some gel-like opaque fluid.

Today really messed with my head... I was told that we had one of the best dissections in the class today though, so I guess there's at least something good that came out of it 🙂

 

[ensuii]

We used a hand saw today to cut our body's head in half (midsagittal cut). For some reason, they wouldn't let us use the electric saws we used to open the thoracic cavity, because it seems that those saws don't cut skin.

I was trying to get a grip on the right half of the face so that the head would stop moving back and forth with the saw (I had already skinned the entire neck the few days before, so as you can imagine, there wasn't too much that was holding the head to the body - I didn't want to decapitate her). After I finished sawing, I realized that during this whole time, I had my index finger in her right eye.

I slowly pulled out my finger (which was probably as deep as the point where you're touching her sphenoid's greater wing/orbital fissure). The eye was completely destroyed, i.e. vitreous humor leaking out, a disfigured body looking straight up at me with this weird ass looking liquid gushing out of her eye, etc... Add to that the fact that since we did a midsagittal cut, we had the sphenoid sinus leaking out some gel-like opaque fluid.

Today really messed with my head... I was told that we had one of the best dissections in the class today though, so I guess there's at least something good that came out of it 🙂

That sounds SOOOOO awesome! We just finished thorax/abdomen/pelvis today and are starting head and neck on tuesday (last two weeks of anatomy omggggggg) but they cut open the heads today for us for some reason. I'm not bitter tho...I got to do a hemisection of the pelvis =D

 

[shadsupremacy]

Cunningham's Manual of Practical Anatomy is a great guide for dissections.

 

[ensuii]

You know what would be awesome? Some sort of index or source for which arteries anastomes with what

 

[Anastomoses]

Cunningham's Manual of Practical Anatomy is a great guide for dissections.

That's what I used. I heard Grant's is also good.