another DO vs. MD thread... this time with a twist.

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I did a slight skim, but I didn't see.

I HAVE to know. What happened to OP?
 
stoic said:
So the title of the thread should have drawn some attention, right?

What I am about to post is my current situation. I'm putting it up here on the internet for advice and discussion. There are several threads floating around right now questioning the high cost of osteopathic medical education and here I'm going to discuss how these high cost are affected my application process.

I have, for the past couple of years, been very much pre-DO. There are several reasons for this. I was initially drawn to osteopathic medicine due to it's percieved willingness to forgive early academic problems. After my freshman year of college, I owned a 2.8 cumm. GPA and a 2.1 science GPA (and a stubborn 2.1 at that... i had done poorly in several different science classes - 20 hours out of the 30 total I took as a freshman were BCMP). As I decided that I wanted to go to medical school, I realized that there would be a difficult uphill battle in order to raise my GPA. Because my perception had been (and still is) that DO schools will look closely at an upward trend, I focused a lot of time into discovering if osteopathic medicine and I would be a good fit. I really enjoy the DO philosophy and believe in the efficacy of *most* manual medicine. I also believe that numbers alone cannot accurately predict an applicants potential as a physician. In any case, because of these reasons, I decided to work towards a DO education and forget about the MD world.

Fast forward a couple years to right now. I've done what I can to raise my GPA (it's up to 3.4cumm. and 3.2 science.) It's not stellar, but it has come a LONGGGG way. During both my sophomore and junior years I earned a GPA of 3.4. Though not as high as I would I have liked, I did take a more difficult courseload than most while being super engaged in research/extracurricular activities and maintaining an outside job. Though the results from the MCAT are not back yet, practice test indicate that I will likely score around a 30 (+/- 2pts). The point is that I have developed what I feel is a competative application for osteopathic medicals schools.

My parents have been extremely supportive of me during this time and very much agree with my decision to pursue medicine as a career. They have given me advice and confidence that have helped me through the extermely stressful premed process. My parents are both health care professionals (pharmacist) and aware of the MD/DO issues, both real and percieved. Both of my parents fully support and believe in the ability and training of DO's. In an ideal world, my parents would very much like to see me become a physician - with no regard of MD/DO. My Dad is not a super-investor or other kind of money genuis, but he has done well with our families money and instilled in me what I consider extremely useful and accurate financial knowledge. The bottom line is that when it comes to money, I trust my dad 100%. My career goals are primary care in rural Kansas - this is yet another thing that has drawn me to osteopathic medicine.

HOWEVER - my Dad has recently had a serious conversation with me about the financial concerns of attending a DO schools. The average private DO school cost around 35k a year. My state MD school cost about 15k a year. That's a REALLY big difference, especially when those numbers are multiplied by 4. Though my Dad believes firmly in the ability of osteopaths and the practice opportunities provided to them, he flat out told me it would be in my financial interest to apply to only my state MD school this year and if not accepted to reapply to the state school AND DO schools the following year. The logic being this:

-My chance of admission at the state MD schools - assuming a good MCAT score - is reasonable, though not particuarly high. My shot at a waitlist is probably pretty good.
-My chance of admission at the state MD school would likely go up if I spent another year in school working to increase my GPA. In an extra year I would be able to earn another BS (genetics) on top of the BS i will graduate with next spring (cell biology) by taking only 4 more classes. I could use this year to basically work exclusively on the sci. gpa section of my application.
-An extra year at my state school would cost about 7k.
-7k+(15k x 4yrs)= ~70k for the cost of medical education and extra undergraduate year.

-If I were to go directly to DO school the cost of my medical education would be ~140k (35k x 4yrs).

The numbers are striking. A seventy thousand dollar difference is particuarly significant to someone who wants to go into primary care and is looking about making around 120k a year in practice.

He see no problem with being a DO except that the cost of DO education is so high. I have to admit that my there seems to be wisdom in my Dad's analysis of the situation. Of course he will support me with whatever I do, but he has openly told me he would be very concerned about the debt I'd be incurring as an osteopathic student.

So there you have it. This is by far the longest post I've ever made. Basically, I love the DO philosophy, but I don't think you have to be a DO to practice it in most cases. I've met MD's who where as holistic as DO's (in fact I'm writing about one in my personal statement - this MD is the most awesome Doc ever, MD or DO). I've also met DO's that where as much glorified pill pusher as some DO's would lead you to believe all MD's are. I'm at a confused place and will be doing a lot thinking on the issue. Does anyone have any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Apple to both MD and DO and attend whichever school accepts you on your first round. Case closed.
 
Did someone seriously revive a thread from 2004...?
 
stoic said:
So the title of the thread should have drawn some attention, right?

What I am about to post is my current situation. I'm putting it up here on the internet for advice and discussion. There are several threads floating around right now questioning the high cost of osteopathic medical education and here I'm going to discuss how these high cost are affected my application process.

I have, for the past couple of years, been very much pre-DO. There are several reasons for this. I was initially drawn to osteopathic medicine due to it's percieved willingness to forgive early academic problems. After my freshman year of college, I owned a 2.8 cumm. GPA and a 2.1 science GPA (and a stubborn 2.1 at that... i had done poorly in several different science classes - 20 hours out of the 30 total I took as a freshman were BCMP). As I decided that I wanted to go to medical school, I realized that there would be a difficult uphill battle in order to raise my GPA. Because my perception had been (and still is) that DO schools will look closely at an upward trend, I focused a lot of time into discovering if osteopathic medicine and I would be a good fit. I really enjoy the DO philosophy and believe in the efficacy of *most* manual medicine. I also believe that numbers alone cannot accurately predict an applicants potential as a physician. In any case, because of these reasons, I decided to work towards a DO education and forget about the MD world.

Fast forward a couple years to right now. I've done what I can to raise my GPA (it's up to 3.4cumm. and 3.2 science.) It's not stellar, but it has come a LONGGGG way. During both my sophomore and junior years I earned a GPA of 3.4. Though not as high as I would I have liked, I did take a more difficult courseload than most while being super engaged in research/extracurricular activities and maintaining an outside job. Though the results from the MCAT are not back yet, practice test indicate that I will likely score around a 30 (+/- 2pts). The point is that I have developed what I feel is a competative application for osteopathic medicals schools.

My parents have been extremely supportive of me during this time and very much agree with my decision to pursue medicine as a career. They have given me advice and confidence that have helped me through the extermely stressful premed process. My parents are both health care professionals (pharmacist) and aware of the MD/DO issues, both real and percieved. Both of my parents fully support and believe in the ability and training of DO's. In an ideal world, my parents would very much like to see me become a physician - with no regard of MD/DO. My Dad is not a super-investor or other kind of money genuis, but he has done well with our families money and instilled in me what I consider extremely useful and accurate financial knowledge. The bottom line is that when it comes to money, I trust my dad 100%. My career goals are primary care in rural Kansas - this is yet another thing that has drawn me to osteopathic medicine.

HOWEVER - my Dad has recently had a serious conversation with me about the financial concerns of attending a DO schools. The average private DO school cost around 35k a year. My state MD school cost about 15k a year. That's a REALLY big difference, especially when those numbers are multiplied by 4. Though my Dad believes firmly in the ability of osteopaths and the practice opportunities provided to them, he flat out told me it would be in my financial interest to apply to only my state MD school this year and if not accepted to reapply to the state school AND DO schools the following year. The logic being this:

-My chance of admission at the state MD schools - assuming a good MCAT score - is reasonable, though not particuarly high. My shot at a waitlist is probably pretty good.
-My chance of admission at the state MD school would likely go up if I spent another year in school working to increase my GPA. In an extra year I would be able to earn another BS (genetics) on top of the BS i will graduate with next spring (cell biology) by taking only 4 more classes. I could use this year to basically work exclusively on the sci. gpa section of my application.
-An extra year at my state school would cost about 7k.
-7k+(15k x 4yrs)= ~70k for the cost of medical education and extra undergraduate year.

-If I were to go directly to DO school the cost of my medical education would be ~140k (35k x 4yrs).

The numbers are striking. A seventy thousand dollar difference is particuarly significant to someone who wants to go into primary care and is looking about making around 120k a year in practice.

He see no problem with being a DO except that the cost of DO education is so high. I have to admit that my there seems to be wisdom in my Dad's analysis of the situation. Of course he will support me with whatever I do, but he has openly told me he would be very concerned about the debt I'd be incurring as an osteopathic student.

So there you have it. This is by far the longest post I've ever made. Basically, I love the DO philosophy, but I don't think you have to be a DO to practice it in most cases. I've met MD's who where as holistic as DO's (in fact I'm writing about one in my personal statement - this MD is the most awesome Doc ever, MD or DO). I've also met DO's that where as much glorified pill pusher as some DO's would lead you to believe all MD's are. I'm at a confused place and will be doing a lot thinking on the issue. Does anyone have any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Look up how much rural primary care docs make. Surprisingly it is more than their urban counterparts. Why? Medicare reimbursements are typically higher in rural areas (as far as I know). It certainly does not change everything and you make some valid points and your writing is solid. However, I do think you are low-balling yourself by saying you will make 120K a year... for sure. Does maybe making say 180-200K change the equations completely? Maybe... maybe not? I would give a shout @cabinbuilder to get more accurate estimates of rural doc pay, she absolutely has more expertise in this area.
 
group_theory said:
this is more of a private v public debate

Unless money is extremely tight, why not just apply to both your state MD school AND some DO schools (up to you how many). This might add a few hundred dollars to the process.

But as calcrew14 have stated, if you get accepted to DO (and not state MD), you will gain 1 extra year of earning potential compare to your plan. If you get accepted to MD and DO during your first try, you're only down a few hundred dollars in application fees.

That extra year's salary may be viewed as ~$100k for first year post-residency, OR it may be viewed as an extra year of work before retirement age where you are earning senior-partner salary (profit-sharing) where, depending on location and type of practice, could be more significant than $100k.

basically to sum it all up (without the math), the earning potential for physicians (DOs and MDs) is so great that missing one year of work to try to gain in-state tuition may not be worth it in the long run (but it does give you peace of mind knowing that you don't owe $100k+ in loans)
Click to expand...
I agree, it is challenging to really look that far down the road, but this guy makes sense. Every year you are not a physician, you are essentially losing the money that you would have otherwise made over your lifetime.
So the equation needs to change from (cost of medical school) - (how much I will make a year to): (cost of medial school) -(how much I will make in a year) X (how many years I practice).
 
Trannie said:
Apple to both MD and DO and attend whichever school accepts you on your first round. Case closed.
Click to expand...
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I would avoid going into a ridiculous amount of debt in order to obtain a worthless DO degree. DO is inferior to MD in EVERY way.
 
Robz said:
You bet your ass thats right. I consistantly got above a 30 and usually in the 32-35 range.

On the real test....a pulled a 26. I was cheesed but I did my best on it as I originally got a 22 on my first MCAT.

looking back now I wish I had two sections regraded, oh well I'm in and I'll be a doctor anyways.

I'm going to crank the crap outta STEP one
Click to expand...

Yes! I was consistently scoring 30-32 on practice tests and got a 27 on the real thing, but I was happy regardless because my first attempt I got an abysmal 20! lol some ppl score in their practice range, but others don't.
 
This thread as been necroposted like 3 different times. People need to just give it a rest already. Whoever keeps starting this crap back up, get a job or a hobby or ANYTHING, good Lord.
 
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