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The SDG was disliked because the hospital system closed one of the system hospitals with zero plan, and expected the SDG to work miracles to handle the fall out.
Another good SDG bites the dust
Started by ERMudPhud
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The SDG was disliked because the hospital system closed one of the system hospitals with zero plan, and expected the SDG to work miracles to handle the fall out.
Also doesn't help that the SDG sued the health system. You can't sue the hand that feeds you and then expect anything good in return. The SDG bid on the RFP, lost, and now is protesting. Several groups bid in the RFP process. ApolloMD did not approach the health system asking them to open up an RFP process. The RFP was announced, ApolloMD bid as did other groups including the SDG, and ApolloMD won. If I lose a tennis match and protest the loss, well, people would comment on my gamemanship.
But hey, I don't want to ruin anyone's parade that SDG is good, CMG is bad. It's all black and white, remember? Many of you want to back SDGs thinking all are good when that is not the case.
Also the SDG was in the middle of whistle blowing on illegal activities by a hospital exec, practicing medicine without a license, when suddenly the RFP was announced and they rapidly lost and were replaced…
If that’s the story, I’d protest too. And not call it poor sportsmanship.
If that’s the story, I’d protest too. And not call it poor sportsmanship.
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If that was the story, I wouldn't want to be part of the health system.
Well that's the latest twist. I'm just reading from far away, so certainly can't know the whole story / truth:
"According to Pattison’s timeline, she heard from other physicians last summer that they had also received emails from McGovern. She called the Oregon Medical Board, which regulates the practice of medicine in the state and investigates complaints that allege a violation of Oregon law by a board licensee. While she said she did not share McGovern’s name, she did ask about his involvement with care. She wrote that the board said it was a violation of an administrative license.
Pattison wrote that she brought these concerns to PeaceHealth president and CEO Sarah Ness and Chief Medical Officer Kim Ruscher in September last year.
Two months later, McGovern and Ruscher put out a request-for-proposal for a new staffing company in PeaceHealth’s emergency departments. In February, PeaceHealth announced the termination of EEP’s contract. Georgia-based ApolloMD is set to start July 1. "
"According to Pattison’s timeline, she heard from other physicians last summer that they had also received emails from McGovern. She called the Oregon Medical Board, which regulates the practice of medicine in the state and investigates complaints that allege a violation of Oregon law by a board licensee. While she said she did not share McGovern’s name, she did ask about his involvement with care. She wrote that the board said it was a violation of an administrative license.
Pattison wrote that she brought these concerns to PeaceHealth president and CEO Sarah Ness and Chief Medical Officer Kim Ruscher in September last year.
Two months later, McGovern and Ruscher put out a request-for-proposal for a new staffing company in PeaceHealth’s emergency departments. In February, PeaceHealth announced the termination of EEP’s contract. Georgia-based ApolloMD is set to start July 1. "
I'd rather be a partner in a mediocre SDG than a W2 or 1099 cog for Apollo.
Your position has been well noted.
Your response surprises me. I know you are a practicing EM physician, but this is written like a lay person who has no ideas of the reality of working in EM. We all know hospital administrators have been stealing control of medical decision making from physicians through implicit coercion for decades now. This group even has the receipts to back it up. The SDG is clearly in the right here.
Edit: I would also take issue with calling the hospital “the hand that feeds”. Physicians are and should be the hand that feeds. Physician groups should have the same leverage as hospitals, not be subservient to them.
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WOW
Obviously we don't have the full story but that reeks of retaliation for reporting a legitimate legal concern
Hand that feeds LOL
After seeing the difference between what we collect vs what they pay you as a W2, believe me that it's the hand that steals.
Maybe more stuff will come out but it's certainly a bad, bad look for the hospital system and even a bad look for those who come to defend Apollo when they could, you know, just not say anything. I guess southerndoc took his "hand that feeds" comment to heart.
Different practice environments and terminology, but we’re overrun with corporate in my field too. There’s significant Stockholm Syndrome, but usually it’s the folks who sold out to PE and made good money or who started there and know nothing else.
This looks very strongly like another case of the C suite ruining everything. They and other business folks don’t love you back. Not saying SDG/PP is perfect by any stretch, but at least you don’t have to go through faceless suits who know nothing to try to do anything.
In light of what hospital admin were trying to illegally do to those docs, it's a smart move to bring in ApolloMD. Bringing in a CMG with infinite layers of bureaucracy and remote leadership allows the local hospital admin to essentially just tell the ApolloMD director to do his bidding, and certainly that director would have been a yes man due to upward pressure from his own management side about keeping hospital admin happy.
So, the PLAN was good. kick out the people probing around illegal activities. Bring in drones that stfu and allow the law to be broken.
Looked good till they got exposed.
So, the PLAN was good. kick out the people probing around illegal activities. Bring in drones that stfu and allow the law to be broken.
Looked good till they got exposed.
Everyone’s got a plan til they get punched in the face. Peace Health exec took a punch to their faces
Holy ****!
Top PeaceHealth exec put on leave after patient care concerns
A day after medical staff at RiverBend discussed emails between Chief Hospital Executive Jim McGovern and physicians that contained exchanges over patient care, the administrator was placed on leave pending an investigation. The Medical Executive Committee at the hospital said it plans to file a...lookouteugene-springfield.com
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EEP is doing what is smart. Hospital canned them.. they go nuclear. Why not.. nothing to lose IMO. Sure you could stay on and work for the new guy. Its tough because if you are a semi functional SDG thats a healthy pay cut to move to CMG land. At that point i love their move to say F it.. let Rome burn.. Seemingly Peacehealth is gonna tuck its tail between its legs and change course.. Maybe not.. I mean the governor, state legistlature, the medical staff are all on their side.
@southerndoc one important fact that does matter. The hospital staff, nursing and others have come out to support the EEP group. That means something. In light of the latest report and actions it looks real bad for the health system. May as well sue their butts off.
Not the fault of ApolloMD to bid on the contract and win. Everyone hates ApolloMD for getting the contract accusing ApolloMD of stealing it from EEP. Even if ApolloMD loses the contract, EEP has pretty much sealed their fate. I doubt very seriously those docs will ever work for PeaceHealth ever again with what all has gone down. Could be wrong, but doubt it.
This is a relatively concise summary of the issues with McGovern and the timeline of when Peacehealth decided to look into bringing in a corporate group. As it notes in the article, there are 300 pages of documentation of how McGovern was acting, some of it very damming.
martywilde.substack.com
Now that more of the story is out, it seems highly likely that this transition away from the local group was at least in part influenced by McGovern retaliating to the group's practice of medicine and wanting to influence more control.
While I understand that doctors who work for these types of corporate groups may want to rationalize that choice, looking back through the thread it is still discouraging to see some of the replies. To those doctors, I would suggest that instead of blaming EEP for being uncompetitive, perhaps looking to understand more of why a 30 year contract was suddenly cancelled may be more prudent.
They Put Patients First. PeaceHealth Put Them Last.
New documents show that PeaceHealth forwarded a physician’s complaint about its top medical administrator directly to him. An RFP to replace the complainants followed within weeks.
martywilde.substack.com
Now that more of the story is out, it seems highly likely that this transition away from the local group was at least in part influenced by McGovern retaliating to the group's practice of medicine and wanting to influence more control.
While I understand that doctors who work for these types of corporate groups may want to rationalize that choice, looking back through the thread it is still discouraging to see some of the replies. To those doctors, I would suggest that instead of blaming EEP for being uncompetitive, perhaps looking to understand more of why a 30 year contract was suddenly cancelled may be more prudent.
There’s certainly a path for EEP to stay because no matter what the final resolution ends up being, that entire c-suite won’t be working for the hospital moving forward.
Let's revisit this in a year and see how it plays out. I'm very curious what the long-term outcome will be.
*My expletive was in response to McGovern the worthless leech admin telling Docs down in the pit how to practice EM.
Also we all know why ApolloMD won the contract. Money. It always comes down to money with these health systems. Who can do it with the lowest % stipend or none at all. Calling out the admin dude was icing on the cake to go with an another group
How does this happen in Oregon? Of all states. I thought Oregon had very strict anti-corporate interference of medicine laws?
I agree re Apollo.. better them than USACS.. However, I think you are wrong. Go try to dump EEP now.. they bought a decently long runway IMO. Risk of a lawsuit for retaliation is not a little thing especially against physicians who are trying to portect patients. The jury in that county would love to skewer the hospital. The damages would be significant. Will the relationship between the C suite and the group be good? Obviously not. However, the C suite is likely to transition sooner than the docs in a good SDG. I may be wrong but I think your read on this is not correct. These docs got people far more powerful than a **** in the C suite on their side.
Its being tested that way as well. On top of all that Its not always money.. in this case I doubt it was money. It is more often control. Hospitals love CMGs not because the subsidy is the lowest.. Because they can defacto control the docs. I was blind to it until about 7 years ago. Hospitals wont hesitate to ask a group to remove someone from the schedule. They know going through due process is painful for them and rarely be successful. But ask a CMG FMD to remove Dr. X from the schedule it gets done. If there is pushback which is rare they will threaten the contract and then it definitely happens cause they will leap the FMD to the regional leader. Once that happens everyone gets in line.
Fair point
Not sure why peacehealth is pushing this and continuing with Apollo. With governor, state reps and publicity nightmare why not revert to eep. Seems like digging heels in is only going to result in lawsuit, injunctions and very unhappy staff throughout hospital
Wharton and Stamford MBAs aren't running hospitals. It's low level state school grads.
They assume, not necessarily wrongly, that they will lose interest given some time. Especially if Apollo taking over goes smoothly.
But fighting this put peacehealth on state radar and keeps them there. I hope eep wins this one for all the little guys out there
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Same, but politicians have notoriously short memories.
Ohh its much worse in this case.
ApolloMD literally markets themselves to hospitals as guaranteeing their emergency physicians are perfectly aligned with management goals.
-AKA we make sure that all our docs will never question the decisions of management even when its actively compromising patient safety.
Their physician group CEOs have even been on record stating that during RPFs they promise to maximize c suite executive bonuses.
Basically PeaceHealth got tired of the SDG group advocating for their emergency patients and decided to replace them with the CMG group
that specifically promises to do whatever their clients want and will terminate emergency physicians who do not follow their clients wishes.
Physician - Hospital Alignment | The Key to Service Excellence
Hospitals need and expect streamlined delivery of top quality, cost-effective patient care. The key to service excellence is physician - hospital alignment.
apollomd.com
This fits the CMG model.. its sad.Ohh its much worse in this case.
ApolloMD literally markets themselves to hospitals as guaranteeing their emergency physicians are perfectly aligned with management goals.
-AKA we make sure that all our docs will never question the decisions of management even when its actively compromising patient safety.
Their physician group CEOs have even been on record stating that during RPFs they promise to maximize c suite executive bonuses.
Basically PeaceHealth got tired of the SDG group advocating for their emergency patients and decided to replace them with the CMG group
that specifically promises to do whatever their clients want and will terminate emergency physicians who do not follow their clients wishes.
Physician - Hospital Alignment | The Key to Service Excellence
Hospitals need and expect streamlined delivery of top quality, cost-effective patient care. The key to service excellence is physician - hospital alignment.
What a Cluster. No winners here but silver lining is hospitals will think twice before putting up RFP.
PeaceHealth - Stained and trusts lost from community/medical staff.
SDG - If they win, then what? Your group is not wanted and working for someone who doesn't want you. Like a football player being publicly trashed by their team, traded, then finds out trade was cancelled. Makes for a bad relationship.
Apollo - Cancel the contract and be demonized by PeaceHealth risking future contracts (CEOs talk). Keep the contract and be the CMG who is known for kicking the poor SDG (right or wrong)
We were in the same spot when our CMG was taken over. TH and HCA decided to "pay" us off so to not rock the boat.
PeaceHealth - Stained and trusts lost from community/medical staff.
SDG - If they win, then what? Your group is not wanted and working for someone who doesn't want you. Like a football player being publicly trashed by their team, traded, then finds out trade was cancelled. Makes for a bad relationship.
Apollo - Cancel the contract and be demonized by PeaceHealth risking future contracts (CEOs talk). Keep the contract and be the CMG who is known for kicking the poor SDG (right or wrong)
We were in the same spot when our CMG was taken over. TH and HCA decided to "pay" us off so to not rock the boat.
I'd like to think that this will impact the long term never ending struggle against the CMGs/hospitals but I doubt it will. The summa takeover was arguably worse with residents being impacted and did anything change?
As long as EPs are willing to sell out for a (pathetically small) extra buck instead of putting in a bit more sweat to own your job, this will be the result.
I can't remember if we started calling it USUCKS before or after Summa.
The SGD has a clear-cut path to victory here. It seems like only people who wanted the SDG out are a few in the c-suite so, overall, it seems like the rest of the people wanted the SDG. Those people who didn't want the SDG are going to be gone soon.
Agree. We don’t know the politics of this system. It seems like the rest of the medical staff likes this SDG. It could be that all levels of various hospital admin loathe them, or it was just a couple of Csuite players who wanted them gone and the rest were neutral / not interested / largely unawares. Certainly there is a version of this where they stay and are semi stable.
🤷
Obviously for EEP it’s bad but i would simply argue once the RFP goes out.. the relationship is permanently ruined. The C suite will change soon.. its not ideal for EEP but they are the only one in the list who has gained status post RFP decision. I think they can and will retain their contract and i think they stay for the next 5 years. After that it’s an unknown for any group IMO.
Dr. G on it with update
Huge thanks to Dr g. Is there spot we can donate to legal fees?
AAEM Backs Lawsuit Challenging PeaceHealth ED Staffing Deal as Governor Calls for Delay
Milwaukee, WI — The American Academy of Emergency Medicine (AAEM) is backing a lawsuit filed by Eugene Emergency Physicians (EEP) seeking to block PeaceHealth’s planned transition to a new emergency department staffing company in Eugene, Oregon. Support for the legal effort will be provided, in...
www.aaem.org
Meanwhile ACEP on the sidelines hoping they would get a few extra dollars by ruining the careers of EEP docs and prepping to leech more off ApolloMD.
AAEM Backs Lawsuit Challenging PeaceHealth ED Staffing Deal as Governor Calls for Delay
Milwaukee, WI — The American Academy of Emergency Medicine (AAEM) is backing a lawsuit filed by Eugene Emergency Physicians (EEP) seeking to block PeaceHealth’s planned transition to a new emergency department staffing company in Eugene, Oregon. Support for the legal effort will be provided, in...
Meanwhile ACEP on the sidelines hoping they would get a few extra dollars by ruining the careers of EEP docs and prepping to leech more off ApolloMD.
ACEP Being wholly invisible here speaks more about the organization than anything written
I know it's quite fashionable to say AAEM good ACEP bad, but those $300/hr rates y'all love to talk about wouldn't exist without ACEP.
I think we’ve talked about this before but just because part of a byproduct of a reaction benefits you doesn’t mean it’s good. In general, ACEP’s actions tend to benefit the CMGs and every once in a while those actions will benefit SDGs and the average pit doc, but make no mistake, that’s not who they care about.
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Exactly. ACEP cares about billing because CMGs care about billing. Its a mutual benefit. But they are silent on residency expansion or anything that only benefits docs. In fact more docs benefit CMGs by flooding supply to drive down demand!
Again. I don't really care who they "care" about. I know senior ACEP leadership and can tell you your black and white take is incorrect.. doesnt matter if you work for a CMG, SDG or hospital...without ACEP you'd be paid like a pediatrician.
In an ironic turn of events, ACEP is certainly not doing much to prevent an oversupply. I understand that nothing is black or white but their silence speaks volumes. They should be championing local ownership. I’d rather be paid like a pediatrician than work for a CMG.
I agree. And I do not think ACEP is all good.
My argument is that your "ACEP bad" is incredibly simplistic.
I'm glad AAEM is doing the sexy social media thing of defending the SDG. ACEP should be joining in this, I agree.
AAEM is powerless to do anything about CMS or private payor issues.
I'm glad we have two professional orgs that are able to focus on different areas.
Please. Everyone knows this is a virtue signalling lie.
I had a friend who was being paid $80/hr as a pediatrician. Eighty.
You're saying you'd take $80/hr instead of $300 from a CMG?
