ANOTHER INTERVIEW ETHICS QUESTION - Sorry!!!

[AnAlienIntrusion]

You enter a room to find your HIV patient very distraught because he's been told by a lay chaplain that he's going to hell and that his sickness is punishment for his lifestyle. What do you tell the patient, and how do you handle the lay chaplain?

My idea was to initially, ask the patient how he felt and ask him if there was anything immediately that I could do for him. I would also reaffirm what we can do to help the course of disease (given the limitations of his insurance, etc) and see what the next steps would be for him. (In the question, we are given this off-chance where he starts screaming that he will harm himself...in this situation, I guess I would ask him to take deep breaths, ask if he needed a break before we continue our discussion and then go seek someone - a therapist/psychiatrist - to evaluate if he needed to be monitored).

I would probably try to find another religious leader in his denomination that the hospital may be aware of to give him better support throughout the course of his disease, as well as various resources/support groups?

In terms of the lay chaplain, I would want to hold a discussion about how disease is sensitive. I'm not sure how I would approach the concept of how could he know if this is truly God's way of punishing? Things do happen - people don't disclose their illness to their partner, methods of protection don't work, etc.

I need help expanding and don't know if my thought process is correct

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[kb1900]

I would tell him that I treated a priest with hiv two weeks ago

 

[samac]

For one I don't want to give up answers so I'm not going to explain what I would do in the situation. Just a couple points:

The means of insurance and progression of the disease aren't in the stem of the question so consider that in a long convoluted drawn out question.

Also, note it's a lay chaplain, remember many hospitals have their own chaplain.

 

[aalamruad]

Haha what in the world is a random lay chaplain who's not affiliated with the hospital doing in this patient's room in the first place? Kind of a bizarre premise

 

[Goro]

C'mon Alien, just speak from the heart.

You enter a room to find your HIV patient very distraught because he's been told by a lay chaplain that he's going to hell and that his sickness is punishment for his lifestyle. What do you tell the patient, and how do you handle the lay chaplain?

My idea was to initially, ask the patient how he felt and ask him if there was anything immediately that I could do for him. I would also reaffirm what we can do to help the course of disease (given the limitations of his insurance, etc) and see what the next steps would be for him. (In the question, we are given this off-chance where he starts screaming that he will harm himself...in this situation, I guess I would ask him to take deep breaths, ask if he needed a break before we continue our discussion and then go seek someone - a therapist/psychiatrist - to evaluate if he needed to be monitored).

I would probably try to find another religious leader in his denomination that the hospital may be aware of to give him better support throughout the course of his disease, as well as various resources/support groups?

In terms of the lay chaplain, I would want to hold a discussion about how disease is sensitive. I'm not sure how I would approach the concept of how could he know if this is truly God's way of punishing? Things do happen - people don't disclose their illness to their partner, methods of protection don't work, etc.

I need help expanding and don't know if my thought process is correct

 

[Lannister]

Haha what in the world is a random lay chaplain who's not affiliated with the hospital doing in this patient's room in the first place? Kind of a bizarre premise

I assumed it was outpatient

 

[Lannister]

To answer the original question, I would have no idea what to say in this type of situation so it'd be great if this never happened to me lol. All I could think to say is (assuming the patient believes in God, which in this case it seems like he does), "You're a good person, and I don't think you're going to go to hell. No human being can really claim to know how God thinks, so you shouldn't listen to that man if what he says upsets you".

While the idea of finding another religious leader for him to speak to would be very kind, it also seems like that's kind of outside the scope of a doctor's job. I think referring to a support group would be a better option.

 

[aalamruad]

In terms of dealing with the chaplain, hit him with a bunch of bible verses about not judging others, I'm pretty sure there are quite a few

 

[AnAlienIntrusion]

C'mon Alien, just speak from the heart.

I wrote what I would say in the situation but I'm not sure if it's correct

 

[AnAlienIntrusion]

Haha what in the world is a random lay chaplain who's not affiliated with the hospital doing in this patient's room in the first place? Kind of a bizarre premise

It's a question on the list of questions I googled to practice for, so I wanted to be prepared

 

[Goro]

There are no correct answers. That's why we ask these sorts of things.

There can be wrong answers though.

No, I'm not sharing.

I wrote what I would say in the situation but I'm not sure if it's correct

 

[AnAlienIntrusion]

There are no correct answers. That's why we ask these sorts of things.

There can be wrong answers though.

No, I'm not sharing.

Thank you!!! I appreciate the insight

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

If he's a Christian, just remind him that Jesus says in the Bible that everyone who believes in Him is saved and will go to the Kingdom of Heaven, and the lay chaplain should mind his own business. Problem solved.

 

[AnAlienIntrusion]

To answer the original question, I would have no idea what to say in this type of situation so it'd be great if this never happened to me lol. All I could think to say is (assuming the patient believes in God, which in this case it seems like he does), "You're a good person, and I don't think you're going to go to hell. No human being can really claim to know how God thinks, so you shouldn't listen to that man if what he says upsets you".

While the idea of finding another religious leader for him to speak to would be very kind, it also seems like that's kind of outside the scope of a doctor's job. I think referring to a support group would be a better option.

Thank you!

 

[caffeinemia]

There are no correct answers. That's why we ask these sorts of things.

There can be wrong answers though.

No, I'm not sharing.

I'd ask chaplain to leave the room (at least for a moment) because I need to discuss patient care. Then I would speak with the patient and see if they need any additional guidance and whether they need any other emotional/spiritual support services. Sometimes, patients invite lay chaplains from their community and that is their business; but take it from a domestic/child abuse playlist -- the first step is to isolate the patient from the abuser and thoroughly understand their relationship with abuser and discuss whether they want help. If they are adult, you must abide by their decision, but you should always let them know that help is available if they are placed in distress by someone else.

 

[danimal22]

If he continues to claim he is going to hurt himself, a psych hold is probably in his near future. Just from a legal standpoint.

 

[Welshman]

I would remind him and this lay chaplain about the Book of Job, then say let he who is without sin cast the first stone and walk away knowing I had out chaplained the chaplain.

 

[LizzyM]

I would remind him and this lay chaplain about the Book of Job, then say let he who is without sin cast the first stone and walk away knowing I had out chaplained the chaplain.

I think you mean the Gospel of John (chapter 8: verse 7), not Job but fair point. (Correct me if there is a corresponding verse in Job.)

Haha what in the world is a random lay chaplain who's not affiliated with the hospital doing in this patient's room in the first place? Kind of a bizarre premise

A lay chaplain can get in with a visitor's pass if they have the name of the patient. They can get the name of the patient if someone calls the church and asks to have someone look in on [name] who is a member of the congregation or a relative of someone in the congregation.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I think you mean the Gospel of John (chapter 8: verse 7), not Job but fair point. (Correct me if there is a corresponding verse in Job.)

I think he may have meant those to be separate points. In the book of Job, the titular character experiences some truly horrible stuff despite being a righteous man. Bringing that story up to the patient could remind him that God does not necessarily cause bad things to happen because of sin, but sometimes lets bad things happen to righteous people for reasons unknown--and more importantly, that sinner or righteous man, he will know fellowship with God again regardless of his actions here.

The reference to John was to tell the chaplain to lay off because he isn't perfect.

 

[Welshman]

@Matthew9Thirtyfive Exactly!

 

[schmoob]

Out of curiosity, why is everyone assuming Christianity here?

 

[CAFFEINE!]

Out of curiosity, why is everyone assuming Christianity here?

Because @WestboroBaptistChurch.

 

[Welshman]

Out of curiosity, why is everyone assuming Christianity here?

I would say a combination of contextual evidence, e.g. chaplain is a western European word used to traditionally used denote Christian clergy members and the US is a predominately Christian country implying the asker is most likely Christian, add a little cultural bias, an aversion to political correctness and Bob's your uncle! You've got a Christian chaplain.