Any latinos accepted?

[MegG]

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That's not true, by sheer numbers alone, poor whites are a much greater percentage of the impoverished in this country than all other minorities combined. I don't want to throw around statistics because I hate when people do that in discussions so I'll leave that up to whoever wants to test my claim. So in essence, the exact opposite would occur because lawmakers would "primarily" want to help those who are at the greatest disadvantage, which, as I mentioned above, would be whites if socioeconomic status became a major consideration in AA. Think about it

This sounds as though you are somewhat racist against white people 🙁 I mean you admit there is also a large problem with poor whites, but from your attitude you seem to think that's fine, and that they shouldn't be helped, but minorities should. Why can't everyone that is disadvantaged (regardless of race) hope for (and hopefully get) some form of help? Your view seems illogical, I just don't understand you I guess 🙁 Oh well

Edit--You seem like the kind of person that will think it's clever to say something like "you said it-you don't understand me" because of my last sentence. Please save us all, it's not clever.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

You seem to like to throw numbers around

Really? The only numbers I see in the post you are referring to is "2005" and "10%," but if you think that constitutes throwing numbers around than forgive me for my flamboyance 😛

and I'm curious...So what is the % of minorities that go ahead and practice in the underprivillaged areas after residency? I mean the way you make it sound almost all of them do, which I find hard to believe.

As I clearly stated in a previous post, I can't stand for people to throw out random statistics during a discussion because A)You have no way of proving their validity on the spot and B)Most people only use them when they can't argue a point with clearly logical statements. So I'm going to refrain from being a hypocrite and just say that if only 1 out of 100 minorities (oh no, I used two numbers again ) go on to practice in underserved areas, then that is one more minority fulfilling a need that was otherwise devoid. Fair? 😉

Your game, set and match stuff is pretty childish/annoying btw 🙁

Is this post a little more mature for ya?

 

[medhacker]

All right people!

No need to get nasty and silly. We are all in these together. MegG to answer your question, a caucasian student who grew up in a disadvantaged status, lives in a disadvantaged area and applies to a school which serves that under-served area is indeed an URM under the new stand of A.A. thanks to Justice O'connor. If you need details I will be glad to explain over PM.

MH

 

[MegG]

Really? The only numbers I see in the post you are referring to is "2005" and "10%," but if you think that constitutes throwing numbers around than forgive me for my flamboyance 😛



As I clearly stated in a previous post, I can't stand for people to throw out random statistics during a discussion because A)You have no way of proving their validity on the spot and B)Most people only use them when they can't argue a point with clearly logical statements. So I'm going to refrain from being a hypocrite and just say that if only 1 out of 100 minorities (oh no, I used two numbers again ) go on to practice in underserved areas, then that is one more minority fulfilling a need that was otherwise devoid. Fair? 😉




Is this post a little more mature for ya?

Hmmm, well I'm pretty sure I've read posts of yours touting numbers, perhaps I'm wrong on that, I don't really care. But if you don't know any %'s (factual) why did you even use them? Again, I don't really care for an answer. And no, I find your posts very immature (the ones I've read) 🙁

 

[MegG]

All right people!

No need to get nasty and silly. We are all in these together. MegG to answer your question, a caucasian student who grew up in a disadvantaged status, lives in a disadvantaged area and applies to a school which serves that under-served area is indeed an URM under the new stand of A.A. thanks to Justice O'connor. If you need details I will be glad to explain over PM.

MH

Thank you very much medhacker, I would appreciate that. I'm still what I'm sure would be considered new to all of this so I'm trying to learn as I go! Thanks again, and I would love to hear from you. And I agree, we are all in this together, some of the people's outlooks that I've read in my short time here do puzzle me though 🙁 Anyway, thanks again, I appreciate the help. 🙂

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

This sounds as though you are somewhat racist against white people 🙁 I mean you admit there is also a large problem with poor whites, but from your attitude you seem to think that's fine, and that they shouldn't be helped, but minorities should. Seems illogical, I just don't understand you I guess 🙁 Oh well

Yeah, you really don't understand me... so let me clarify. Yes I DID admit there is large problem with poor whites, but in no way did I claim that this is fine. Infer what you will, my argument is in the area of health care only. As another poster mentioned, the current workforce of doctors is predominately white, so when it comes to who could relate better and treat these poor whites (rednecks included for that one poster), there are a plethora of doctors ready and willing to give medical care as they see fit. Minorities on the other hand do not have such a pool of "ready and willing" doctors to serve them because there is not such a pool available in the medical field. In a world where people would treat people because they are in fact PEOPLE and not because they are of a particular race, we wouldn't even have to worry about implementing such programs like affirmative action. But we don't live in such a Utopia, and race still plays a huge role in how health care is delivered in this country... so therefore black doctors are going to be more inclined to treating black patients... native americans treating their own... so on and so forth. Am I saying that EVERY doctor is only going to preferably treat within their own race. Hell no, but since the cruel reality is that disparities exist in quality of care delivered to minorities, the fact is that something should be done about it... and I believe affirmative action is a great vehicle to tackle this problem. But I'm only speaking from experience from living in the South... who knows how things go down in other parts of the country 😛

 

[soumdoc]

I somehow feel that Asians somehow get excluded from all of this, and they benefit in absolutely no way.............and I wish there was someway to filter minorities that do have great opportunities in life and are from more wealthy backgrounds that are not more likely to serve in underserved communities, but still benefit from affirmative action.

 

[DarkFark]

URM is there for a reason. It helps find people who are more likely to work in underrepresented areas. I don't agree in the way people take advantage of the status, but minorities are needed in medicine! Who do you think is gonna go to under represeted areas and help?! You?

Why are you calling me out? Where did I say AA was bad?

Geez, I got into college with legacy help. I have no right to complain about AA.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

All right people!

No need to get nasty and silly. We are all in these together. MegG to answer your question, a caucasian student who grew up in a disadvantaged status, lives in a disadvantaged area and applies to a school which serves that under-served area is indeed an URM under the new stand of A.A. thanks to Justice O'connor. If you need details I will be glad to explain over PM.

MH

I did not know that, but that is pretty awesome. But how do you take that into account without knowing parental income, etc, which is not listed on AMCAS? For example, I could live in Podunk, AK, go to med school in Podunk, AK, and promise to work in Podunk, AK, but I could be one of Sam Walton's kids and be filthy rich, so I doubt I would count as URM.

To WhatUpDoc: thanks for the props, but in general, saying that "oh the problems with X statement are so many and obvious I won't even go there" is a huge cop out, and doesn't carry that much weight. I can see it now:

Interviewer: So, tell me what you think of today's health care system?
Me: Please. There are so many obvious problems with the health care system today, I don't even need to go there.

As long as you're not disrespectful or totally ignorant with your posts, no one's going to fault you for posting your opinion. Of course, what qualifies as "ignorant" is open for interpretation 😛

I don't think there's any doubt that racism still exists in this country, though I'm not sure Katrina is a great example of that. I think a lot of times it is easier to play the race card than it is to face a harder truth. If a hurricane hit southern Texas, you'd probably see thousands of Latinos in the same boat (no pun intended). The poor are always going to get the shaft, regardless of color. 100 years ago, it was the Polish and the Irish, etc, getting stepped on in the inner city, more recently the African-Americans, and increasingly the Latino population. Money=power, no matter who you are.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

I did not know that, but that is pretty awesome. But how do you take that into account without knowing parental income, etc, which is not listed on AMCAS? For example, I could live in Podunk, AK, go to med school in Podunk, AK, and promise to work in Podunk, AK, but I could be one of Sam Walton's kids and be filthy rich, so I doubt I would count as URM.

To WhatUpDoc: thanks for the props, but in general, saying that "oh the problems with X statement are so many and obvious I won't even go there" is a huge cop out, and doesn't carry that much weight.

I was planning on going to bed sometime tonight, but since you called me out on the "cop out," figured I'd go ahead and man-up before I hit the sheets 😎

In reference to your analogy about whites being reluctant to treat rednecks: Problem #1) From what I've seen, rural medicine is much alive in in places like West VA, East TN, and some parts of KY (Military family, so I've done some traveling) So I don't see rednecks in nearly as much disparity as minorities as it relates to health care
Problem #2) Please tell me the last time you saw a redneck complaining about inequalities in health care, last thing I heard a redneck complain about was liquor stores closing early down in the good ol Bible belt 😛
Problem #3) I agree that few non-minorities would enjoy a career up in the mountains treatin Billy Joe and Mary Lou, but you're totally side-stepping the issue of today which is the fact that MINORITIES are getting the short end of the stick on a continous basis and not poor whites. Why not poor whites? As I mentioned above in a previous post, it has to do with the workforce of physcians (see the previous post of clarification) today and what race make up a majority of this workforce. I'm only presenting the facts as I've seen them with my own two eyes so if you think I'm wrong on anything, please feel free to give me a rundown of how your life has shaped your current views on this situation. Straight? 😎

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

I was planning on going to bed sometime tonight, but since you called me out on the "cop out," figured I'd go ahead and man-up before I hit the sheets 😎

In reference to your analogy about whites being reluctant to treat rednecks: Problem #1) From what I've seen, rural medicine is much alive in in places like West VA, East TN, and some parts of KY (Military family, so I've done some traveling) So I don't see rednecks in nearly as much disparity as minorities as it relates to health care
Problem #2) Please tell me the last time you saw a redneck complaining about inequalities in health care, last thing I heard a redneck complain about was liquor stores closing early down in the good ol Bible belt 😛
Problem #3) I agree that few non-minorities would enjoy a career up in the mountains treatin Billy Joe and Mary Lou, but you're totally side-stepping the issue of today which is the fact that MINORITIES are getting the short end of the stick on a continous basis and not poor whites. Why not poor whites? As I mentioned above in a previous post, it has to do with the workforce of physcians (see the previous post of clarification) today and what race make up a majority of this workforce. I'm only presenting the facts as I've seen them with my own two eyes so if you think I'm wrong on anything, please feel free to give me a rundown of how your life has shaped your current views on this situation. Straight? 😎

1) Also coming from a military family, I'm guessing that our viewpoints are a bit biased, since the military provides health care to everyone.
2) I'd have to imagine that anybody without health care is going to wish they had more of it, regardless.
3) I don't think anyone yet has disagreed with you that minorities get the short end of the stick. I just think the point is that there's a much bigger disadvantage to being poor than there is to being of a certain color. My argument is that the number of doctors who will turn you down for being a particular race is vastly smaller than the number of doctors who will turn you down for not having insurance.

And trust me, the vast majority of premeds I know would prefer to go to medical school in downtown Chicago or NY than to go somewhere out in the boonies.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

I don't think there's any doubt that racism still exists in this country, though I'm not sure Katrina is a great example of that. I think a lot of times it is easier to play the race card than it is to face a harder truth. If a hurricane hit southern Texas, you'd probably see thousands of Latinos in the same boat (no pun intended). The poor are always going to get the shaft, regardless of color.

So you mentioned: 1) That racism still exists in this country and 2) Poor people get the shaft. Yet you still treat the two as mutually exclusive when you mention that certain races of people have been "stepped on" throughout the history of inner city America. I would rather say that the "minority" will always get the shaft, regardless of socioeconomic status. Think about the Asians during WWII who cropped up and became wealthy while building up a great majority of the west coast, were they immune to hatred and persecution because of their financial status?... I think not. If anything, it inspired more hatred because the majority (as you mentioned) has the Money/Power and that's the way they would like to keep it. I'm just a realist speaking from things I've seen in my own lifetime. How to help those in underprivillaged sectors of America has been a problem since construction of Roosevelt's New Deal Plan. Getting back to medicine though, I seriously realize how much of a health care gap there is between minorities and non-minorities and I refuse to enter a profession with my eyes blinded and ears deaf to the problems associated with it.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

My argument is that the number of doctors who will turn you down for being a particular race is vastly smaller than the number of doctors who will turn you down for not having insurance.

Agreed, money talks 👍 (But still do realize the race/financial status tandem that I've been trying to emphasize, who is more likely to not have insurance- minorities or non-minorities?)

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

So you mentioned: 1) That racism still exists in this country and 2) Poor people get the shaft. Yet you still treat the two as mutually exclusive when you mention that certain races of people have been "stepped on" throughout the history of inner city America. I would rather say that the "minority" will always get the shaft, regardless of socioeconomic status. Think about the Asians during WWII who cropped up and became wealthy while building up a great majority of the west coast, were they immune to hatred and persecution because of their financial status?... I think not. If anything, it inspired more hatred because the majority (as you mentioned) has the Money/Power and that's the way they would like to keep it. I'm just a realist speaking from things I've seen in my own lifetime. How to help those in underprivillaged sectors of America has been a problem since construction of Roosevelt's New Deal Plan. Getting back to medicine though, I seriously realize how much of a health care gap there is between minorities and non-minorities and I refuse to enter a profession with my eyes blinded and ears deaf to the problems associated with it.

A) No one has said anything about entering the profession blinded to its problems.
B) I never said the two were mutually exclusive. In fact, quite the opposite. The point was that the early immigrants were a minority, and poor, and got hated on even though they were white. Hate is not reserved for a particular color. Which leads me to letter...
C) It has been my experience that the only color most people care about is the color green. I'd have to wager that Will Smith gets better care than Billy Bob Smith.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Agreed, money talks 👍 (But still do realize the race/financial status tandem that I've been trying to emphasize, who is more likely to not have insurance- minorities or non-minorities?)

Right, but my point is that it's the financial status that is keeping them from getting the health insurance, not the color of their skin. Which is the point of AA. Increasing education = increasing income = increasing health care = increasing life expectancy, etc.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Hahaha I love how we've hijacked this thread into an AA thread. Sorry to all the Latinos out there. You can have your thread back now.

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

Hahaha I love how we've hijacked this thread into an AA thread. Sorry to all the Latinos out there. You can have your thread back now.

LOL... yeah... We took it there... anyways, glad to see that we concurred on some points 👍

 

[MrBurns10]

WhatupDoc, to sum up my point so that you can fully understand, I just feel like AA based on economic status or at least AA that allows for poor whites to benefit would help minorities while also helping white people that really need the helping. I really don't believe an adcom would choose a poor white person over a poor or middle-class black person simply because he/she had the same skin color (white)...if this were the case, they wouldn't sit on adcoms. Plus, adcoms have like 30 people on there...you'd have to have an entire med school that was totally racist to get this kind of response. It just doesn't happen anymore, and if for some reason it did, well I don't think a black person, latino, or Native American would want to go there anyway, regardless of benefit received. And your point about white people not wanting to go back to the inner city is also not true (or at least is merely your opinion)...people either want to escape where they're from or come back to help; that depends on the person's personality, not their skin color.

I also thought the whole "game set match" thing was quite immature...I was ready to have a polite, rational discussion, and to be called misinformed because I "didn't think race and socioeconomic status were inseparable" (paraphrased) wasn't the best way to open up discussion. I realized at the time that you said "country" and not me specifically, but when you're responding to my post, calling me misinformed because of the above statement, and then saying that this country thinks that there are no racial disparities anymore, how do you think I'm going to react? "Oh, he said country in that sentence...he obviously wasn't speaking directly to me." I don't think so.

Either way, I'm sorry we had to go off like this (and thanks for chiming in, WholeLottaGame); I never meant anything negative by my original post and I appreciate you discussing your opinions with me. I just think your original response could have been a bit less...sarcastic, I suppose. It's cool though. And yes, of course we're still friends. 😉

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

And yes, of course we're still friends. 😉

That's all that matters 😍

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

This sounds as though you are somewhat racist against white people 🙁 I mean you admit there is also a large problem with poor whites, but from your attitude you seem to think that's fine, and that they shouldn't be helped, but minorities should. Why can't everyone that is disadvantaged (regardless of race) hope for (and hopefully get) some form of help? Your view seems illogical, I just don't understand you I guess 🙁 Oh well

Edit--You seem like the kind of person that will think it's clever to say something like "you said it-you don't understand me" because of my last sentence. Please save us all, it's not clever.

I think a lot of the problem with treating poor white people is lack of proper medical facilities in rural areas. My best friend (you may know him. Getunconscious?) lived in rural Nevada for a while. He and his family had to travel to Salt Lake City in order to get major procedures done. As mentioned before, a disadvantaged white person who is committed to serve their similar community is considered an URM at some institutions. The major problem is that there need to be more institutions dedicated to serving this community.

Contrarily, there are a plethora of medical institutions in inner city areas, but these institutions (especially those in predominantly minority areas) are understaffed. Pursuing more minority medical students seems to be a good way to better serve these minority communities. For example, Dr. Blackburn is the ONLY African American Dermatologist in the Houston Area. Since he has developed products that better treat African American skin types, he has an overwhelmingly successful practice. His appointments are usually full for months. This is because other dermatologists who do not identify with the black community do not feel the need to explore treatments that help blacks the most. Similarly, (forgive me for not knowing the names of the medications) some blood pressure medications are more effective for whites than they are for blacks. I was learning about this in my internship program this past summer. Apparently, an earlier blood pressure drug (drug A) works better for African Americans than the newer drug (drug B) does. Drug B tends to be more effective for those of European decent and is also more expensive than drug A. Doctors also stand to gain more financially if they prescribe drug B over drug A even though literature suggests drug A is more effective for black patients. Statistics showed that white doctors were more likely to prescribe drug B to black patients than were black doctors. This may be because black doctors are more likely to read about pharmacological cures that work best on black patients (and that the white docs were not aware of this difference). No one even knows why certain drugs effect different races differently (we also met an African American MD/PHD who was researching this subject) but the research needs to be done. Who better to tailor their clinical practice to the needs of ethnic minorities than minority physicians and researchers? Current main stream medicine best serves the majority population.

 

[Sooz]

Agreed, money talks 👍 (But still do realize the race/financial status tandem that I've been trying to emphasize, who is more likely to not have insurance- minorities or non-minorities?)

Since insurance goes hand in hand with money (decent job too) and you stated earlier that due to sheer numbers that "poor whites" would far out number any other "poor" race, then obvoiusly whites would be more likely to not have insurance on a large scale basis.

 

[Sooz]

This whole thread has been interesting to read, but the view I came into it with hasn't changed. People should get help if they need it regardless of race. Of course my hubby has a mass growing on his tongue (I'm scared) and we don't have insurance, so I of course really see the urgency of some kind of reform being needed. Anyway, it's been a fun read, thanks to all you posters who fought it out 😉

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

This whole thread has been interesting to read, but the view I came into it with hasn't changed. People should get help if they need it regardless of race. Of course my hubby has a mass growing on his tongue (I'm scared) and we don't have insurance, so I of course really see the urgency of some kind of reform being needed. Anyway, it's been a fun read, thanks to all you posters who fought it out 😉

For more examples on health disparities as they effect ethnic minorities, go to:
www.cdc.gov/omh/Populations/populations.htm

A great example I found was with the Auto-immune disease, Lupus. About 9 out of 10 people affected by Lupus are women. African American and Hispanic women are about three times more likely to develop Lupus than are Caucasian women. No major epidemiological studies were done on Lupus until 1978 and still the death rate of those affected is steadily rising. Very little is known about this disease because very few researchers study it. If medical institutions succeed in provoking more ethnic minorities to study medicine, the probability that more physicians could relate to this problem is great. This could lead to better research, better treatments, and more awareness about Lupus.

 

[little_late_MD]

Similarly, (forgive me for not knowing the names of the medications) some blood pressure medications are more effective for whites than they are for blacks. I was learning about this in my internship program this past summer. Apparently, an earlier blood pressure drug (drug A) works better for African Americans than the newer drug (drug B) does. Drug B tends to be more effective for those of European decent and is also more expensive than drug A. Doctors also stand to gain more financially if they prescribe drug B over drug A even though literature suggests drug A is more effective for black patients. Statistics showed that white doctors were more likely to prescribe drug B to black patients than were black doctors. This may be because black doctors are more likely to read about pharmacological cures that work best on black patients (and that the white docs were not aware of this difference). No one even knows why certain drugs effect different races differently (we also met an African American MD/PHD who was researching this subject) but the research needs to be done. Who better to tailor their clinical practice to the needs of ethnic minorities than minority physicians and researchers? Current main stream medicine best serves the majority population.

That was on the show "House" last week. A black patient didn't want the "racist drug."

 

[Sooz]

For more examples on health disparities as they effect ethnic minorities, go to:
www.cdc.gov/omh/Populations/populations.htm

A great example I found was with the Auto-immune disease, Lupus. About 9 out of 10 people affected by Lupus are women. African American and Hispanic women are about three times more likely to develop Lupus than are Caucasian women. No major epidemiological studies were done on Lupus until 1978 and still the death rate of those affected is steadily rising. Very little is known about this disease because very few researchers study it. If medical institutions succeed in provoking more ethnic minorities to study medicine, the probability that more physicians could relate to this problem is great. This could lead to better research, better treatments, and more awareness about Lupus.

Sounds like an interesting read, I'll check it out! Thanks for the link 🙂

 

[MegG]

This sounds like a good idea, but remember there are still racial preferences in America. The civil rights movement was not that long ago; people our parents age were major parts of it (my parents were very involved with it). I don’t know if you noticed, but individuals on med school admissions committees are mostly white and of the same generation who saw minorities without rights. I’m not saying all older white people are racist, but it would be naïve to assume they have no racial preferences. It has been shown time and time again that people with more “ethnic” sounding names are much more likely to be rejected from a job than people with traditionally “American” names. So suppose these older, affluent white individuals could just pick a poor white person over a minority for their medical school class. Do you think they’d pick the white person over the minority? I’d probably say yes. Changing the status of AA would greatly decrease minority enrollment in Medical schools for this reason. Race and Class are similar but not identical issues, we must remember this.

I'm glad you're assuming that not all white older people are racist, I make the same assumption about older black people. Of course when my boyfriend (he was black) introduced me to his father he said "get that white trash out of my house" or something like that. My boyfriend told me it would be tough, he warned me his father didn't like white people. When I introduced my boyfriend to my father, my father said "nice to meet you". So, please don't insinuate that racism is just a one way street. But the example you use for the white people picking a poor white person over a minority sounds like the reverse of AA. If it exactly opposite how can one way be fair while the other isn't? I mean you are saying that it's ok to pick a black person over a white because of AA, but it wouldn't be ok to pick a white person over a black? I might have a different perspective than a lot of white people since I live in a predominatley black society, I mean for the biggest part we were all just people (in my high school), not really races, but I still fail to see the logic of saying that it's ok to pick one race above another and then use AA to justify it. I know whatupdoc tried to explain his reasoning to me (which i apreciate) so hopefully you can help me out here too.

 

[catalystman]

OK!!! enough about AA.... I personally support it 😉 America is a diverse society thus, educational opportunity has to be open to all people.Even George W said diversity is our strength 😉 To consider race as one factor among many as decided in the supreme court case is the best bargin for American society right now 👍 .

can we give the latinos their thread back now 🙂

 

[MegG]

OK!!! enough about AA.... I personally support it 😉 America is a diverse society thus, educational opportunity has to be open to all people.Even George W said diversity is our strength 😉 To consider race as one factor among many as decided in the supreme court case is the best bargin for American society right now 👍 .

can we give the latinos their thread back now 🙂

No, it seems that a lot of people on this thread have some insight that I may not have been exposed to. I mean I'm young and because of where I grew up I don't know that I fully understand some of these points of view. And besides, I can answer the OP question. Yes, latinos have been accepted to med school before, and they will this year too. 👍

 

[little_late_MD]

They're accepting Latinos into med school now?
Well daggumit, I'll be.
What'll they think of next.

 

[maxflash04]

They're accepting Latinos into med school now?
Well daggumit, I'll be.
What'll they think of next.

😀

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

I'm glad you're assuming that not all white older people are racist, I make the same assumption about older black people. Of course when my boyfriend (he was black) introduced me to his father he said "get that white trash out of my house" or something like that. My boyfriend told me it would be tough, he warned me his father didn't like white people. When I introduced my boyfriend to my father, my father said "nice to meet you". So, please don't insinuate that racism is just a one way street. But the example you use for the white people picking a poor white person over a minority sounds like the reverse of AA. If it exactly opposite how can one way be fair while the other isn't? I mean you are saying that it's ok to pick a black person over a white because of AA, but it wouldn't be ok to pick a white person over a black? I might have a different perspective than a lot of white people since I live in a predominatley black society, I mean for the biggest part we were all just people (in my high school), not really races, but I still fail to see the logic of saying that it's ok to pick one race above another and then use AA to justify it. I know whatupdoc tried to explain his reasoning to me (which i apreciate) so hopefully you can help me out here too.

First, I would like to acknowledge that I in no way insinuated that racism is a one-way street. I’m sorry that you have experienced prejudice from Blacks in the past, but I assure you that most ethnic minorities have experienced the same type of discrimination. That being said, personal experiences of discrimination have NOTHING to do with the point I made. Those who make admissions decisions at medical schools tend to be older White individuals. Even if older Blacks are prejudice, they are not making admissions decisions, so they are of no concern to applicants.

Second, this is not about what is fair and what is not fair by some “moral” standard. Look at AA from two different points of view:

The product:
The final goal of medical school is to produce a group of physicians who can best serve the American Population. Whites make up about the same proportion of the medical school population as they do the general population. Asian Americans are over represented in Medicine (20% medical pop vs 3.6% of the population according to the CDC). African Americans and Hispanic Americans are each about 12% of the population but each make up about 5-6% of the medical school communities. A major reason for health disparities in these communities is the lack of URM physicians. Because of these discrepancies, an URM doctor in training is more valuable to the American community than is a non-URM doctor. Ethnic minority doctors are more likely to work in inner city hospitals, minority patients are more comfortable with these doctors, and these physicians tend to devote more of their attention to health issues that affect minority populations. As I mentioned before with the blood pressure and Lupus examples, little research and clinical action is now devoted to minority health issues. Increasing the minority enrollment in medical school stands to best benefit the full American population.

The Social Implications:
Minorities (specifically African Americans) have suffered through 200 years of slavery followed by 100 years of being robbed of equal civil and social rights. Now that we are about 35 years removed from the civil rights movement, the majority assumes that we should “get over it” or that all is suddenly equal. Other under represented minorities have faced a similar historic record of being afforded fewer civil and social rights. It has taken a concerted government effort on Federal, State, and Local levels to put minorities in our current social predicament. It will take a concerted government effort on Federal, State, and Local levels to correct this problem. Suggesting that race and class should be treated as identical issues is just ignoring the real problems created through out our history.

In short, AA should consider race because American Society, historically, has continuously considered race. Countless studies have shown that it is important to maintain an ethnic balance in the medical community, and AA has been a tool for doing this. Ignoring the issues of ethnicity and making AA on the basis of socioeconomic class will produce a system that fails to correct the ethnic imbalances.

 

[little_late_MD]

In short, AA should consider race because American Society, historically, has continuously considered race. Countless studies have shown that it is important to maintain an ethnic balance in the medical community, and AA has been a tool for doing this. Ignoring the issues of ethnicity and making AA on the basis of socioeconomic class will produce a system that fails to correct the ethnic imbalances.

You would like a government contrived solution to repair the damages said government not only contributed to, but was the number propogater of? Sounds like the fox guarding the henhouse to me.

Organizing communities based on ethinicity and race has done wonderful things around this globe. I see what enviable systems they have in Somalia, Iraq, Vietnam, Sudan, the Balkans.

As long as ethnicity continues to be made into the number one identifying characteristic among cohorted groups, it will serve as a dividing and weakening force. Identity politics plays right into the hands of those already in power. Do you know how the slave-owners in the south were able to control a slave population that outnumbered them in some cases 3-1? They turned the various ethnic groups against each other. They made poor whites superior to poor blacks. They made certain blacks superior to others. They used religion, jingoism, and patriotism against them. As long as we continue to play the elite's game of idenitity politics and blame assignment, everyone who is not in the top 5% will lose. As long as we are manipulated by our allegences, the status quo will remain. It will be the same monster, different mask.

I know that it is a versceral and instinctual reaction to idenitfy with racial and ethic cohorts, but it hasn't created any significant positive results in the thousands of years people have been turning to this type of tribalism. I don't know how to correct the imbalances present in today's modern American social landscape, but I can guarantee you this is not it.

 

[Los5272]

Why are you calling me out? Where did I say AA was bad?

Geez, I got into college with legacy help. I have no right to complain about AA.

Sorry, darkfark. I got the wrong impression. I wasn't trying to call you out, just inform a little about AA. 🙂

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

I know that it is a versceral and instinctual reaction to idenitfy with racial and ethic cohorts, but it hasn't created any significant positive results

I'm assuming you think the Civil Rights movement was an insignificant snippet of Black history and equality then 😕

 

[Los5272]

Well, I started this thread to get some general information about where latinos were applying so that I could hopefully apply to med schools were I could meet and make friends with people who have similar interests and backgrounds as myself. I inadvertantly opened up a can of worms, though. There has been alot of useful info given by many of you. Getting into med school is tough enough on its own. We are all in the same boat and want to become doctors. Lets use our knowledge to help each other rather than put each other down. Hopefully one day we will all be great physicians and make a big impact in our communities. Their are people of all races in the U.S., so we are all in demand. Lets just not forget why we want to become doctors.

 

[DarkFark]

Sorry, darkfark. I got the wrong impression. I wasn't trying to call you out, just inform a little about AA. 🙂

Eh, no problem. I should have been more clear.

 

[Quetzal]

Well, I started this thread to get some general information about where latinos were applying so that I could hopefully apply to med schools were I could meet and make friends with people who have similar interests and backgrounds as myself. I inadvertantly opened up a can of worms, though. There has been alot of useful info given by many of you. Getting into med school is tough enough on its own. We are all in the same boat and want to become doctors. Lets use our knowledge to help each other rather than put each other down. Hopefully one day we will all be great physicians and make a big impact in our communities. Their are people of all races in the U.S., so we are all in demand. Lets just not forget why we want to become doctors.

i agree w/ u... and 2 answer ur initial question... im applyin this year... i applied 2 about 15 schools, and no interviews yet!!! 😕 it's ok though, we must remain positive!!!!

 

[little_late_MD]

I'm assuming you think the Civil Rights movement was an insignificant snippet of Black history and equality then 😕

I would say that on the surface it has been quite an achievement. For a brief period we were all able to come together and say that we had had enough of the status quo. Remember, the Civil Rights Movement owed its success not to the consolidation of purpose among the only the black community, but of people of all different colors across all economic spectrums.
But take a closer look. Has the dynamic of power really shifted at all in this country? Do very rich white men still pull all of the strings? I think that they do. Are they able to maintain that paradigm because of all the infighting between the different ethnic and social identities of the lower classes? I think that they are. Please don't dismiss my argument because you take offense to it. I think that for the most part, history is on my side.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

Well, I started this thread to get some general information about where latinos were applying so that I could hopefully apply to med schools were I could meet and make friends with people who have similar interests and backgrounds as myself. I inadvertantly opened up a can of worms, though. There has been alot of useful info given by many of you. Getting into med school is tough enough on its own. We are all in the same boat and want to become doctors. Lets use our knowledge to help each other rather than put each other down. Hopefully one day we will all be great physicians and make a big impact in our communities. Their are people of all races in the U.S., so we are all in demand. Lets just not forget why we want to become doctors.

I'm sorry for taking over your thread, Los5272. I am not Hispanic, but I know alot of Hispanic people who go to UT Houston and UTMB in Galveston. I think UTMB is the most diverse medical school in Texas (I don't know if you are interested in Texas schools) so that would be a good choice for you. Good luck

 

[maxflash04]

... and to think that i haven't slept in over 24 hours, am jittery as hell, have drank 6 red bull's within the last 3 hours, and have taken 3 aderol's, i still have time to get on SDN, check out the fabulous posts from its great members, and take time out of my schedule to reflect. 🙂

anatomy test, 3 chapters of math, and an english essay of 10 pages sucks teh booty not to mention that i have a biology and anatomy lab practical exam tomorrow morning.

in other words, life really sucks. haha!

 

[maxflash04]

I'm sorry for taking over your thread, Los5272. I am not Hispanic, but I know alot of Hispanic people who go to UT Houston and UTMB in Galveston. I think UTMB is the most diverse medical school in Texas (I don't know if you are interested in Texas schools) so that would be a good choice for you. Good luck

i'm from Dallas too. that is, of course, if you're from Dallas and not Houston? ... i'm sure i'm not making much sense right now ... i have to run to class now. free time is over with. wait... free time doesn't exist! rawr!

<3 beautiful maxflash04 😛

 

[indo]

... and to think that i haven't slept in over 24 hours, am jittery as hell, have drank 6 red bull's within the last 3 hours, and have taken 3 aderol's, i still have time to get on SDN, check out the fabulous posts from its great members, and take time out of my schedule to reflect. 🙂

anatomy test, 3 chapters of math, and an english essay of 10 pages sucks teh booty not to mention that i have a biology and anatomy lab practical exam tomorrow morning.

in other words, life really sucks. haha!

well thank god you have adderall!

 

[willow18]

68% of New Yorkers are White. 100% of the New York Knicks are African American. Supreme court, here comes all 5' 5", 125 pounds of me!

 

[Sooz]

The Social Implications:
Minorities (specifically African Americans) have suffered through 200 years of slavery

The way you stated this you kind of sound like you think slavery was something that was invented with America. I really hope that you know the history of slavery better than that (I assume you do). Slavery has been around for much longer than 200 years, and was being practiced before anything called "America" was a gleam in anyones eye. Again (as I've said in this same thread before..i think) , I'm not stating my opinion on anything race/AA related. I just felt your statement could lead a less informed reader (if there is such a thing on these boards) to believe that slavery originated with the creation of America.

And to the OP, sorry your thread was taken over, but I also think (as I think LadyJubilee8 stated) many of the TX schools would be a good bet! Good luck 🙂

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

The way you stated this you kind of sound like you think slavery was something that was invented with America. I really hope that you know the history of slavery better than that (I assume you do). Slavery has been around for much longer than 200 years, and was being practiced before anything called "America" was a gleam in anyones eye. Again (as I've said in this same thread before..i think) , I'm not stating my opinion on anything race/discrimination related. I just felt your statement could lead a less informed reader (if there is such a thing on these boards) to believe that slavery originated with the creation of America.

And to the OP, sorry your thread was taken over, but I also think (as I think LadyJubilee8 stated) many of the TX schools would be a good bet! Good luck 🙂

Good thing we are talking about a program instituted by the US government that affects African AMERICANS and Hispanic AMERICANS. Why is the fact that slavery started before it was implemented in the US of any importance?

 

[sanche60]

68% of New Yorkers are White. 100% of the New York Knicks are African American. Supreme court, here comes all 5' 5", 125 pounds of me!

Its so annoying when people try to demonstrate the necessities of the entire population by quoting extreme circumstances like professional athlete statistics.

 

[Sooz]

Good thing we are talking about a program instituted by the US government that affects African AMERICANS and Hispanic AMERICANS. Why is the fact that slavery started before it was implemented in the US?

I'm not sure what (if anything) you're asking here. I do know however that it seems that some of the people in this thread have not really looked into the issue, so I felt it only fair they be informed.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

68% of New Yorkers are White. 100% of the New York Knicks are African American. Supreme court, here comes all 5' 5", 125 pounds of me!

I certainly hope you are not implying that minorities in medicine are as incompetent as you would be on the Kicks. There are many excellent minority physicians and I’m sure the minorities who post on this board will soon join them. Besides, medical schools get federal funding and are subject to federal programs. The NBA is a private organization that accrues its own funds; your example is not compatible with the system of AA.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

I'm not sure what (if anything) you're asking here. I do know however that it seems that some of the people in this thread have not really looked into the issue, so I felt it only fair they be informed.

I meant to finish the sentence with, "of any importance?" my mistake

 

[maxflash04]

well thank god you have adderall!

Except for the fact that I've been awake nearly 30 hours and not a bit tired is a little odd. I hope that once it finally wares off I won't be dead because I have a lab practical exam and another exam for an unrelated class. Hopefully I'll be able to function still. 😉