Any new pharmacy schools beginning in fall 2008?

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pcatman

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Any thoughts?
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too many pharmacy schools... we should've kept it at around 70 schools...my salary would have been doubled..
 
I thought there was about 100 pharmacy schools now.
 
I remember back in 20-aught-3...they was only 77 schools...simpler times, youngins'...simpler times....

Nah, but seriously...20+ schools in 4 years? Sweet Jesus...

Plus HICP, to boot.
 
I think HICP was destined to happen and acted as a wake up call. If it weren't for that debacle, I think there'd be at least 6-10 more schools out there now with varying levels of accred.
 
Belmont University in Nashville, TN, and Sullivan in Louisville, KY I believe are starting next year.
 
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ACPE has stated they are going to get more strict with reaccreditation. That we should expect more schools going on probation starting this year.
 
I don't think we're being greedy when we say we don't want more schools. While the current shortage is the reason for all these new schools, they are going to be the reason for the surplus in 10 or 15 years. It will happen. I wish the number was kept under 80.
 
butadione said:
I don't think we're being greedy when we say we don't want more schools. While the current shortage is the reason for all these new schools, they are going to be the reason for the surplus in 10 or 15 years. It will happen. I wish the number was kept under 80.
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A surplus in the next 10-15 years? Isn't that a bit ... soon? If what you are saying has a moderate-high chance of happening, thats not good for undergrad freshman like me... :scared:
 
hye345 said:
A surplus in the next 10-15 years? Isn't that a bit ... soon? If what you are saying has a moderate-high chance of happening, thats not good for undergrad freshman like me... :scared:
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No I personally think that is accurate, given the number of new schools opening and churning out graduates (especially accelerating in '05 to now). We're already experiencing that here in Southern California, our floating and new pharmacists at CVS don't have the same luxuries they used to have in when/where they work.

I think in about 8-10 years (about the time you are graduating pharmacy school), it's going to be tough pickings as there should be a glut of newly minted pharmacists. I think you'll be able to find a job, but you're gonna have to commute further and go into less desirable areas for a while with salaries stagnating (technically decreasing after accounting for inflation).

I mean, there'll always be a demand if you're good...I think, more than anything, that this adjustment will weed out those who aren't good. The days of having a PharmD and being able to just sail doing QA in a retail setting are effectively over. Residencies and management skills will become increasingly important.
 
confettiflyer said:
No I personally think that is accurate, given the number of new schools opening and churning out graduates (especially accelerating in '05 to now). We're already experiencing that here in Southern California, our floating and new pharmacists at CVS don't have the same luxuries they used to have in when/where they work.

I think in about 8-10 years (about the time you are graduating pharmacy school), it's going to be tough pickings as there should be a glut of newly minted pharmacists. I think you'll be able to find a job, but you're gonna have to commute further and go into less desirable areas for a while with salaries stagnating (technically decreasing after accounting for inflation).

I mean, there'll always be a demand if you're good...I think, more than anything, that this adjustment will weed out those who aren't good. The days of having a PharmD and being able to just sail doing QA in a retail setting are effectively over. Residencies and management skills will become increasingly important.
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I think you're oversimplifying it. In Louisiana, we only have TWO pharmacy schools. That's it. They aren't planning to open a new one any time soon either. It seems like CA is just screwing over their own pharmacists.

If you want the luxury, you have to move. I'm sure Alaska is just dying for pharmacists. I've heard of some crazy deals going down in Colorado, like GOOD sign-on bonuses plus housing.

For example, I'm from the western part of Louisiana, close to Texas:)thumbdown). In my hometown, CVS was having are very difficult time finding pharmacists to fill their new stores. They were being too cheap. Walgreen's had a store that they couldn't open either until they put up the cash.

Pharmacists have pull, but it depends on the market.
 
PharmDstudent said:
I think you're oversimplifying it. In Louisiana, we only have TWO pharmacy schools. That's it. They aren't planning to open a new one any time soon either. It seems like CA is just screwing over their own pharmacists.

If you want the luxury, you have to move. I'm sure Alaska is just dying for pharmacists. I've heard of some crazy deals going down in Colorado, like GOOD sign-on bonuses plus housing.

For example, I'm from the western part of Louisiana, close to Texas:)thumbdown). In my hometown, CVS was having are very difficult time finding pharmacists to fill their new stores. They were being too cheap. Walgreen's had a store that they couldn't open either until they put up the cash.

Pharmacists have pull, but it depends on the market.
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I agree with you. There is a great need for pharmacists in southern texas. HEB, which is the dominant grocers throughout much of texas has garanteed a job for the first 10 graduating classess at our school. No, thats not a typo, 10. This does not include the wal-greens, cvs, etc that keep popping up. If retail is not what your interested in doing, there are plenty of hospitals looking for pharmacists. I know several independent pharmacies that are doing very well especially when they provide services like pain management, hormone replacement, and other specialized compounding techniques. The pharmacists role in healthcare is continuing to evolve and it is up to you as a professional to make yourself desirable. I believe that is not a difficult task with a pharmd and any kind of ambition. The pharmd is and will continue to be a solid career path. Bottom line, it is true some areas jobs are not as available as they once where, but the shortage in other areas will continue for years to come.
 
PharmDstudent said:
I think you're oversimplifying it. In Louisiana, we only have TWO pharmacy schools. That's it. They aren't planning to open a new one any time soon either. It seems like CA is just screwing over their own pharmacists.

If you want the luxury, you have to move. I'm sure Alaska is just dying for pharmacists. I've heard of some crazy deals going down in Colorado, like GOOD sign-on bonuses plus housing.

For example, I'm from the western part of Louisiana, close to Texas:)thumbdown). In my hometown, CVS was having are very difficult time finding pharmacists to fill their new stores. They were being too cheap. Walgreen's had a store that they couldn't open either until they put up the cash.

Pharmacists have pull, but it depends on the market.
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Haha...everything you wrote agrees with what I'm thinking. Students don't exclusively go to schools in their own state, so two Pharm schools in LA doesn't mean that your state is SOL...it means people will have to come from out of state.

Now, before I sound all California-centric, I'll argue that one can consider California a more desirable place than other states (just based on housing prices)...so it makes sense that a new pharmacist in 8 years won't be able to crack into the S. California market as readily as someone who wants to relocate to Alaska or Colorado. So what you say makes sense...in the end it's simple supply and demand. It's the same concept behind why California pharmacy (and medical) schools are (on average) more difficult to get into.
 
PharmDstudent said:
I think you're oversimplifying it. In Louisiana, we only have TWO pharmacy schools. That's it. They aren't planning to open a new one any time soon either. It seems like CA is just screwing over their own pharmacists.

If you want the luxury, you have to move. I'm sure Alaska is just dying for pharmacists. I've heard of some crazy deals going down in Colorado, like GOOD sign-on bonuses plus housing.

For example, I'm from the western part of Louisiana, close to Texas:)thumbdown). In my hometown, CVS was having are very difficult time finding pharmacists to fill their new stores. They were being too cheap. Walgreen's had a store that they couldn't open either until they put up the cash.

Pharmacists have pull, but it depends on the market.
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yes thats very true washington state has only 2 schools also and everyone I know of in the state is having a hard time staffing pharmacists
 
confettiflyer said:
I mean, there'll always be a demand if you're good...I think, more than anything, that this adjustment will weed out those who aren't good. The days of having a PharmD and being able to just sail doing QA in a retail setting are effectively over. Residencies and management skills will become increasingly important.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt say just because you have a residency, that automatically qualifies you to be good and guarantees you a job. If anything, the jobs for clinical pharmacy in my opinion is too competitive, and expericing a surplus. On the other hand, retail will always have a shortage, as you have to be fast, and not a job a lot of people want to go to.

Management skills for a pharmacist is definitely required.

In my opinion, I say we shut down or stop new pharmacy schools from opening. They are definitely going to kill the profession.
 
Aznfarmerboi said:
I wouldnt say just because you have a residency, that automatically qualifies you to be good and guarantees you a job. If anything, the jobs for clinical pharmacy in my opinion is too competitive, and expericing a surplus. On the other hand, retail will always have a shortage, as you have to be fast, and not a job a lot of people want to go to.
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Until retail pharmacy no longer requires a pharmacist, which unfortunately, is probably something companies that employ community pharmacists lobby strongly for. Personally, I would never work for a company that in the background was only looking at a profit margin and constantly trying to devise a plan not to pay someone $50 per hour to punch a computer screen and watch technicians have people check the "decline counseling" box.

At that point, only the most credentialed pharmacists will have a place; ones that have established themselves as indispensable based on their cognitive ability. You know, like the pharmacist from Indiana who is the lead author on how Intensive Care Units should use sedative agents (the official statement of the American College of Critical Care Medicine published in the medical journal Critical Care Medicine). She impresses me, and would never be out of a job.....

http://www.sccm.org/professional_resources/guidelines/table_of_contents/Documents/Sedatives.pdf

I will be unpopular for this post, but I am tired of meeting people who are surprised when I tell them I do not actually work in a pharmacy..
 
Priapism321 said:
Until retail pharmacy no longer requires a pharmacist, which unfortunately, is probably something companies that employ community pharmacists lobby strongly for. Personally, I would never work for a company that in the background was only looking at a profit margin and constantly trying to devise a plan not to pay someone $50 per hour to punch a computer screen and watch technicians have people check the "decline counseling" box.

At that point, only the most credentialed pharmacists will have a place; ones that have established themselves as indispensable based on their cognitive ability. You know, like the pharmacist from Indiana who is the lead author on how Intensive Care Units should use sedative agents (the official statement of the American College of Critical Care Medicine published in the medical journal Critical Care Medicine). She impresses me, and would never be out of a job.....

http://www.sccm.org/professional_resources/guidelines/table_of_contents/Documents/Sedatives.pdf

I will be unpopular for this post, but I am tired of meeting people who are surprised when I tell them I do not actually work in a pharmacy..
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Your post is just bizarre. It's like you're trying to compare apples and oranges- both are fruit, but they are not the same. There are plenty of authors who have professional degrees but do not actually "practice". The background that these authors have, this may include you too, allows them to excel in scholarly work.

In my opinion, pharmacists are involved in an "intellectual" trade which almost always involves practicing in a pharmacy setting. Pharmacy itself is defined as "the art, practice, or profession of preparing, preserving, compounding, and dispensing medical drugs"- Merriam-Webster online.

Pharmacists can use their knowledge and experiences when trading prescriptions for medications or insight about clinical applications, but for either of those to happen, there needs to be a pharmacy. There really isn't enough theory in pharmacy to disassociate it from being a "trade". The theory associated with pharmacy comes from the mechanisms of medicinal chemistry, the drug-drug interactions, toxicities, enzyme metabolism, etc. All of these aspects relate back to other disciplines.

Any pharmacist can write about pharmacy, but they are not practicing pharmacy simply by writing about it.
 
The number of pharmacists in traditional roles is declining. Also, the average number of hours worked by a pharmacist is declining because pharmacy is turning into a female dominated profession. Average number of FTEs is currently .92.
In my area, Chicago, there is a surplus of clinical pharmacists. Some of the people going through residencies are not sure where they can find a job if they want to stay in Chicago.
 
Pharmcdc, not sure where you get your facts, but the only place in Texas HEB actually makes money and is dominant is in San Antonio. They are by far not the dominant grocery store in Texas. Just wanted to clear that up.
 
Aggie07 said:
Pharmcdc, not sure where you get your facts, but the only place in Texas HEB actually makes money and is dominant is in San Antonio. They are by far not the dominant grocery store in Texas. Just wanted to clear that up.
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Well, I wont argue with you. See for yourself. Wiki is not what I would use for a source for a pk pt paper, but hey, this is an internet forum:oops:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-E-B
 
Sometimes I dont like to click on external links, so this is what the above link states:

H.E. Butt Grocery Company (abbreviated H-E-B) is a privately held San Antonio, Texas-based supermarket chain with over 300 stores throughout Texas and northern Mexico. H-E-B ranked No. 11 on Forbes' 2006 list of "America's Largest Private Companies" based on 2005 revenue of $12.4 billion.[1] Supermarket News ranked H-E-B No. 14 in the 2007 "Top 75 North American Food Retailers" based on 2006 fiscal year estimated sales of $12.4 billion.[2] Based on 2005 revenues, H-E-B is the twenty-seventh largest retailer in the United States

So no, maybe its not THE #1 grocer in Texas, but its not a mom & pops grocers either.
 
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