Anyone else a Christian??

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Just a thought regarding Intelligent Design. Check out the recurrent laryngeal nerve. Current vet students should be familiar with this nerve. It seems that many scholars use this nerve to argue against intelligent design, because the design is most certainly not intelligent. 😉
 
Chapelle said:
Just thought I'd throw this out there:

I think a bigger problem/question/leap of faith for a lot of agnostic/atheist/non-Christians is not whether there is some higher power which allowed something as unlikely as life and/or human consciousness to happen but the disconnect between this possible higher power and the way God is presented in the Bible.

It's like - say I accept that there is a God, how do I know he wrote/inspired the Bible and its teachings?
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Very true. As a Christian who attempts to read the Bible every day, I still have issues and unresolved questions with portions of it. Which parts are literal and which figurative? If the majority of the contemporary church dismisses certain commandments as cultural edicts that no longer apply (most of the traditional Judaic laws, women not being allowed to speak in church, etc.), how can we say other laws still apply?
 
turnandburn said:
Whoa back up the truck here. Did I say I factually believed there was no creator??? Noooo.... I said there is zero EVIDENCE for a creator, so why believe?
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👍👍

This is the crux of the matter. Atheists LACK a belief in a higher power/creator/god/gods, etc..

That is very different than believing there is none... Atheism implies one has no reason to believe in such (for lack of evidence), and so one does not.

((I know there is sadly a ton of confusion about what the true meaning of atheism and agnosticism... I am an atheist, not an agnostic.))
 
I realize this thread is pretty old (I was digging around for that nausea thread and stumbled onto this). Just wanted to say to the OP that I am also a strong Christian 👍. Not going to add to any of the debate because I feel like it's pointless. At the end of everyone's life you find out if you are right or wrong.

I am also excited to hear about a Christian club in vet school. Ill def have to check that out 🙂

Anyways, just letting the OP know that there are other Christian future vet students!
 
I feel like my ramblings on the probability of life occurring spontaneously using Bayesian methods went unappreciated in this thread so I'm glad you bumped it.

No really, I am. Totally. Not at all sarcastic... :meanie:
 
HopefulAg said:
Well I can't speak for others but I generally don't tell people I'm atheist in real life. I get LOTS of negative reactions when I do and it's just not worth it. I avoid the topic of religion all together. It's a damn bore when you're not talking about it to people who are open about it (I.E. the 'my way or the highway' religious folks).
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I think it's worse being in Texas. I avoid religious topics as well unless it's with my friends or other people who I trust to respect my beliefs. Although, I was accosted once by a self-described "anti-theist" because I said I didn't know if I believed in a higher power or not. I consider myself a determined fence-sitter, i.e. agnostic. I'm not jumping to one side or the other and I respect others' beliefs as long as they respect my own.
 
I didn't read the entire thread, but yep, I'm also a Christian pre-vet! 🙂
 
cwazy cat lady said:
👍👍

This is the crux of the matter. Atheists LACK a belief in a higher power/creator/god/gods, etc..

That is very different than believing there is none... Atheism implies one has no reason to believe in such (for lack of evidence), and so one does not.

((I know there is sadly a ton of confusion about what the true meaning of atheism and agnosticism... I am an atheist, not an agnostic.))
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Just wanted to make a correction to your statement that atheism is a lack of belief. It is actually the belief that there are no dieties. Here's the definition.

"Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities.[1] It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[2] A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3]"

That broader definition jibes with what you said but, IMO, most athiests believe there is no god. I myself, would say that I am a deist but certainly not a Christian.
 
DogTyred said:
Just wanted to make a correction to your statement that atheism is a lack of belief. It is actually the belief that there are no dieties. Here's the definition.

"Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities.[1] It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[2] A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3]"

That broader definition jibes with what you said but, IMO, most athiests believe there is no god. I myself, would say that I am a deist but certainly not a Christian.
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The Wikipedia definition of atheism is not the official definition of atheism. Additionally, the term represents an identity, and as such its definition is subject to controversy and revision.

I don't put any stock in the supernatural.
 
I like to describe myself as "spiritual". I believe that there is a higher power but not how it is represented in the bible. I see organized religion for the most part as a means to control the masses and the world would be better off without it(with exceptions). The bible is a guideline on how to live your life morally but I dont believe that you need God to be a good person. When the greatest current debate is whether or not gay people should marry we have a problem. They are greater issues like genocide, starvation, poverty, and nuclear proliferation that while not in the bible are FAR more pressing matters. Religion has no place in politics and for the most part academia. So I think the OP question is kinda silly. If we all said we were Jewish or Muslims would something have changed?

Sorry, Im very passionate about this and my class just had a big discussion about it sooooooooooooo I said way more then I needed to.
 
Tiktaalik said:
The Wikipedia definition of atheism is not the official definition of atheism. Additionally, the term represents an identity, and as such its definition is subject to controversy and revision.

I don't put any stock in the supernatural.
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K...How 'bout the definition from dictionary.com

http://m.reference.com/d/search.html?q=Atheism

a·the·ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm]
–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
[Origin: 1580–90; < Gk áthe(os) godless + -ism]

I believe Christianity is an identity, not atheism. Atheism is a belief.
 
peachy3214 said:
I like to describe myself as "spiritual". I believe that there is a higher power but not how it is represented in the bible. I see organized religion for the most part as a means to control the masses and the world would be better off without it(with exceptions). The bible is a guideline on how to live your life morally but I dont believe that you need God to be a good person. When the greatest current debate is whether or not gay people should marry we have a problem. They are greater issues like genocide, starvation, poverty, and nuclear proliferation that while not in the bible are FAR more pressing matters. Religion has no place in politics and for the most part academia. So I think the OP question is kinda silly. If we all said we were Jewish or Muslims would something have changed?

Sorry, Im very passionate about this and my class just had a big discussion about it sooooooooooooo I said way more then I needed to.
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Peachy, I agree with you whole heartedly.
 
I skipped like, 3 pages of thread.

I'm a Unitarian Universalist, which probably puts me in the VAST minority. :laugh: I'm generally surprised when people even know what it is, although at a liberal, private Quaker college we were pretty thick on the ground.
 
peachy3214 said:
So I think the OP question is kinda silly.
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Lol, why? The OP only asked one thing-any Christian vet students on the forum? Kind of like asking if there are any farm kids on the forum or any people from Canada on the forum. Nothing was ever implied about a Christian vs non-Christian being a better vet.

I know that sometimes I feel like a minority so it's nice to know that there are others with a similar background or similar passions in life.

That's not silly at all, in fact I liked the OP's question.
 
Poochlover11 said:
Lol, why? The OP only asked one thing-any Christian vet students on the forum? Kind of like asking if there are any farm kids on the forum or any people from Canada on the forum. Nothing was ever implied about a Christian vs non-Christian being a better vet.

I know that sometimes I feel like a minority so it's nice to know that there are others with a similar background or similar passions in life.

That's not silly at all, in fact I liked the OP's question.
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👍👍
 
I am christian in the same way that someone from the middle east is likely muslim. I was born into a christian family, raised in the church, believe more or less the christian doctrine, but don't believe it is the only correct religion out there. I believe that religion is primarily a result of geography, and MOST people are unlikely to turn away from what they're comfortable with and believe is correct. I know that I am christian and would not feel comfortable becoming Buddhist, so why would I expect a Buddhist to change their beliefs to christianity? And are they any more likely to go to hell simply because they were raised to believe something different from me?
I began to turn away from organized religion in my late teens with the exposure of priests abusing young children. It wasn't so much that it happened, but that there wasn't a greater outcry from other organized religions to see some sort of resolution. Since then, the involvement of conservative groups in political and civil rights issues has further turned me off to organized religion. I now consider myself to be more spiritual than religious and choose to pray and serve in my own way.
Its all philosophical, but I have a tendency to believe everyone is free to believe what they wish to believe provided they follow the basic tenants of caring for one another and not harming others. Ultimately, in our own ways, I believe we all likely worship the same deity - which I do believe there is some greater force in our lives helping us along. Whether He is in one incarnation or 3 or 7 is all up to interpretation 🙂
 
DogTyred said:
I believe Christianity is an identity, not atheism. Atheism is a belief.
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That's cool and all, but for people who self-identify as atheists, atheism is a component of their identity. Not all atheists identify as such, true, but there is a significant population of atheists who do. The dictionary.com definition isn't the be-all end-all either (really, the OED is supposed to be the official lexicon of the English language, but even then) - the term's defined by those who use it to refer to what they (don't) believe. Much as Christians define what makes a Christian differently, atheists define what makes an atheist differently.

Of course, the reason I don't self-identify as an atheist because I think the word has baggage, like we've unearthed here.

I don't mind the question - I think it's great that there are plenty of subcommunities that we people can belong to. That said, I don't always get why, in a place where Christianity is so prevalent (you pretty much can't throw a brick in this country without breaking a stained glass window), there always needs to be a Christian student union or campus bible study or whatever. I always thought the pre-existing facilites & communities outside campus would suffice.

Edit: I don't want that last bit to come across as concern-trollish. I don't want to start a silly fight about religion and I am actually interested.
 
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^^^
Glad I wasn't drinking anything, or I'd need a new keyboard right about now. :laugh:
 
cwazy cat lady said:
👍👍

This is the crux of the matter. Atheists LACK a belief in a higher power/creator/god/gods, etc..

That is very different than believing there is none... Atheism implies one has no reason to believe in such (for lack of evidence), and so one does not.

((I know there is sadly a ton of confusion about what the true meaning of atheism and agnosticism... I am an atheist, not an agnostic.))
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Ehh talk about confusion, there is more than ONE type of Atheist/Agnostic.

Strong vs. Weak Atheists, Agnostic theism vs. Agnostic atheism

We had to learn about all of the different categories in Philosophy class. Needless to say, I didn't show up half of the time. If someone wants to believe in a creator, that's their choice. I have no right to tell them that they're wrong.
 
Whyevernot55 said:
I skipped like, 3 pages of thread.

I'm a Unitarian Universalist, which probably puts me in the VAST minority. :laugh: I'm generally surprised when people even know what it is, although at a liberal, private Quaker college we were pretty thick on the ground.
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Would you like some coffee? A friend's father (in Wyoming) ordered her a tiny flaming chalice pendant, so she could wear a religious symbol, just like everyone else at school. I thought it was hilarious, but most people were confused... Not a lot of UU's in Wyoming.
 
PrimalMU said:
Just a thought regarding Intelligent Design. Check out the recurrent laryngeal nerve. Current vet students should be familiar with this nerve. It seems that many scholars use this nerve to argue against intelligent design, because the design is most certainly not intelligent. 😉
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Nevermind recurrent laryngeal...after taking large animal anatomy, I'd say the entire equine species is an argument against intelligent design...
 
twelvetigers said:
Major props for the Rocky Horror, Abby. If there's one movie I know word for word, that's it. 😀
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Beyond awesome! My son has yet to attend a showing in a theater that allows audience participation. That is on the "to do" list.
 
Poochlover11 said:
Lol, why? The OP only asked one thing-any Christian vet students on the forum? Kind of like asking if there are any farm kids on the forum or any people from Canada on the forum. Nothing was ever implied about a Christian vs non-Christian being a better vet.

I know that sometimes I feel like a minority so it's nice to know that there are others with a similar background or similar passions in life.

That's not silly at all, in fact I liked the OP's question.
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That may be....... but it is not as simple as are you interested in farm animals or are you from Canada. Generally when you ask someone a question like "Are you a Christian?" you are inquiring as to their life style and their morals. I personally don't care what religion you are. As long as you are a honest and good person it should not matter what your religion is. The fact of the matter is that the very nature of all the major religions tells you that their religion is the "true" one and this creates and harbors elitist and "clique" values. When someone asks me "are you a christian?" they ARE asking if you are apart of their world and their beliefs. Why ask at all if that wasn't important information to you? So it is silly because it automatically alienates a large amount of people and for what purpose? so that you can find people with similar interests? Then ask "What are you religious beliefs" to show that you are open to no matter what they say. By asking "who is a Christian"? you are implying that you expect a certain answer and that identifying as a Christian is an important trait or some type of qualification to you.
 
peachy3214 said:
That may be....... but it is not as simple as are you interested in farm animals or are you from Canada. Generally when you ask someone a question like "Are you a Christian?" you are inquiring as to their life style and their morals. I personally don't care what religion you are. As long as you are a honest and good person it should not matter what your religion is. The fact of the matter is that the very nature of all the major religions tells you that their religion is the "true" one and this creates and harbors elitist and "clique" values. When someone asks me "are you a christian?" they ARE asking if you are apart of their world and their beliefs. Why ask at all if that wasn't important information to you? So it is silly because it automatically alienates a large amount of people and for what purpose? so that you can find people with similar interests? Then ask "What are you religious beliefs" to show that you are open to no matter what they say. By asking "who is a Christian"? you are implying that you expect a certain answer and that identifying as a Christian is an important trait or some type of qualification to you.
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Hmmm.....this is an interesting concept to me, because when I identify as a Christian often times I am the one who is alienated (not because of my religious beliefs but because of how I live them out-I don't get drunk, swear, etc-just some examples). Not even just alienated, but teased in addition. I am not going to alienate anyone for their beliefs, trust me. I have friends from all different walks of life.

But yes, I enjoy discovering that others are Christians because there aren't many of us and I feel like we can support each other. Just like I enjoy meeting other diabetics like myself. Only they can understand the struggles of being a diabetic-because they walk that same road.
 
Tiktaalik said:
Where do you live? I think I should like to move there.

(My hometown is the most Christian town in all christendom)
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Hahahaha...ah, wow. I am sure there are lots of people that believe in God, but I am referring to people whose passion is living for God. That population isn't so big when compared to the rest of the population.
 
Tiktaalik said:
That's cool and all, but for people who self-identify as atheists, atheism is a component of their identity. Not all atheists identify as such, true, but there is a significant population of atheists who do. The dictionary.com definition isn't the be-all end-all either (really, the OED is supposed to be the official lexicon of the English language, but even then) - the term's defined by those who use it to refer to what they (don't) believe. Much as Christians define what makes a Christian differently, atheists define what makes an atheist differently.

Of course, the reason I don't self-identify as an atheist because I think the word has baggage, like we've unearthed here.

I don't mind the question - I think it's great that there are plenty of subcommunities that we people can belong to. That said, I don't always get why, in a place where Christianity is so prevalent (you pretty much can't throw a brick in this country without breaking a stained glass window), there always needs to be a Christian student union or campus bible study or whatever. I always thought the pre-existing facilites & communities outside campus would suffice.

Edit: I don't want that last bit to come across as concern-trollish. I don't want to start a silly fight about religion and I am actually interested.
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Hmm...I'm not sure I understand. Either you believe in a higher power or being (theism), you don't believe in any higher power or being (atheism), or you simply believe that the knowledge of a higher power is unknowable (agnoticism). Am I off base, here? I'm not sure how that can have any shades of gray.

I'm trying to understand what you mean by "self-identify as an atheist." You say that some atheists do, but you do not. Does that mean that some identify themselves as atheists to the PUBLIC and others do not?
 
lazyjayn said:
Would you like some coffee? A friend's father (in Wyoming) ordered her a tiny flaming chalice pendant, so she could wear a religious symbol, just like everyone else at school. I thought it was hilarious, but most people were confused... Not a lot of UU's in Wyoming.
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Yes please! 😀 I used to wear a chalice pendant all the time - now I wear a triskele instead. But I got a lot of questions about what the heck it was. Actually, I still get a lot of questions...
I sort of "fell into the gap" after college what with all the moving around and don't have a congregation here, but since my top choice is Tufts I could (hopefully!) end up back in UU-land where there are more than 5 of us! Hurrah!
 
Poochlover11 said:
Hmmm.....this is an interesting concept to me, because when I identify as a Christian often times I am the one who is alienated (not because of my religious beliefs but because of how I live them out-I don't get drunk, swear, etc-just some examples). Not even just alienated, but teased in addition. I am not going to alienate anyone for their beliefs, trust me. I have friends from all different walks of life.

But yes, I enjoy discovering that others are Christians because there aren't many of us and I feel like we can support each other. Just like I enjoy meeting other diabetics like myself. Only they can understand the struggles of being a diabetic-because they walk that same road.
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Your feelings of alienation must be because of the area you live in. Christians are not a minority in this country with a large number of them being evangelical or born again(so radical by some standards).

I think that we have had very different experiences based on the areas that we live. My experience with people who identify themselves as "very religious" has been less than stellar. I have been alienated and slandered for not being christian enough. I have also been told that I am going to hell for not being born again.

From my personal experiences those that profess their religion the most are generally the least "Christian" in their behavior(especially those that don't identify with them)
 
To answer Peachy and TheEvilShoes, I guess I should have been a little more specific. When coming from the aspect of people believing in a god vs no god, I could see how atheists feel outnumbered. My definition of a Christian is more then believing in a god and going to church every Sunday. I am talking about people whose passion is living for God, not just going threw the motions.

And I have to say that just because someone tells me they are a Christian doesn't necessarily mean I agree with them. I personally can not stand how some people feel the need to shove down peoples' throats about how they are going to hell and are bad people-that is soooooo not the way to approach the issue. If people want to talk about it, I will talk to them. If they have questions I will answer them. But if they choose not to talk about it, I respect that and we continue on with our friendship.


So, I guess it depends on your definition. I go to Iowa State, and there are definately people whose passion is living for God. Im just saying that there are more people around here who aren't.
 
To Poochlover

I think that we are on the same page in regards to how we feel about those who try to force religion on others. Im happy to say that you seem to be the exception to what I have encountered(in regards to your tolerance to other views)and I respect you for that🙂
 
DogTyred said:
Hmm...I'm not sure I understand. Either you believe in a higher power or being (theism), you don't believe in any higher power or being (atheism), or you simply believe that the knowledge of a higher power is unknowable (agnoticism). Am I off base, here? I'm not sure how that can have any shades of gray.

I'm trying to understand what you mean by "self-identify as an atheist." You say that some atheists do, but you do not. Does that mean that some identify themselves as atheists to the PUBLIC and others do not?
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You're getting to it. There's a distinction between "atheism" as an impartial descriptor of a person's orientation within the greater continuum of belief and a public or personal identification as an atheist. You can point to a person's beliefs and say "he believes there is no god, therefore his beliefs are atheistic". A person can also point to to himself or herself, either publicly or privately, and say "I am an atheist", claiming the word as a marker of identity. This is a complexity that arises when discussing people who espouse any ideology - on the one hand, there is a bald statement of category ("that person is a Republican, because he agrees with Republican beliefs"), on the other, there is an identity which the person allies himself or herself with ("I am a Republican, and I attend party meetings and enjoy talking to like-minded people").

So, in my case, I don't believe in a god or gods or angels or demons or anything like that. I have a naturalistic worldview. I identify as a "bright", because I like the idea of the Brights Project, which seeks to escape the strong negative connotation associated with the word "atheist" and create a broader umbrella term that encompasses agnostics with a naturalistic worldview. Basically, it seeks to do the same thing to unify the non-believing community that "queer" seeks to do in unifying the LGBTQ community. However, there is an "atheist community" of people who embrace the term atheist and use it to identify themselves.

So, you're absolutely right that, by definition, someone capable of holding belief in a god has to sit somewhere as either a theist, atheist, agnostic, or apatheist, but, as zeebra pointed out, people's identities do not fit nicely into these boxes. A strong atheist is what you would call an atheist (positively believes there is no god), while a "weak" atheist is really an agnostic (does not believe in god, but does not believe this with 100% certainty). Even Richard Dawkins admits that strong atheism is indefensible and calls himself a weak atheist (a technical agnostic), yet he still identifies as an atheist. See how confusing it gets?

This is why I objected to just pointing to the dictionary and saying "Atheists positively believe there is no god". I do not believe in a god, like most atheists/brights, and there is a real distinction that the dictionary definition is not helpful in elucidating.

If you want further reading on this, Richard Dawkins covers it quite eloquently in The God Delusion.

Here's more on the brights, too.
 
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peachy3214 said:
To Poochlover

I think that we are on the same page in regards to how we feel about those who try to force religion on others. Im happy to say that you seem to be the exception to what I have encountered(in regards to your tolerance to other views)and I respect you for that🙂
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Agreed 🙂 At some point in life you have to agree to disagree. I find it humorous how some people think that getting in escalted, heated disagreements is somehow going to make someone else believe in what they believe. I have NEVER seen that go over well, in fact, I feel it pushes people away more. I may not agree with what someone does or believes, but that doesn't mean I don't like the person or that we can't be friends.

Anyways, I wish you the best of luck in your veterinary endeavors and I am glad we could have this little chat, lol. :laugh:


PS-and Peachy3214, I am sorry your experience with Christians so far has been pretty negative, we aren't all like that.
 
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It sounds like you want to be an atheist, but you don't want people that look down on atheists to look down on you, so you package it up in a new name and try to reinvent it to give it a better image. I personally get tired of people taking positive sounding terms, like gay or bright, and applying it to their group to make themselves sound better to people that may not agree with their ideas. Lots of people do it for many different groups so its nothing against you personally, just something that mildly annoys me. I like the meanings words already have.
 
Quigly said:
It sounds like you want to be an atheist, but you don't want people that look down on atheists to look down on you, so you package it up in a new name and try to reinvent it to give it a better image. I personally get tired of people taking positive sounding terms, like gay or bright, and applying it to their group to make themselves sound better to people that may not agree with their ideas. Lots of people do it for many different groups so its nothing against you personally, just something that mildly annoys me. I like the meanings words already have.
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Gay wasn't really a term gays gave themselves - it kind of evolved organically. I think the word "atheist" has been irrevocably poisoned and is too narrow, and needs to be cast off as an identifier, so I identify with the brights. I'd personally say that (a) you're oversimplifying things somewhat by casting the bright movement as a spin campaign and (b) language evolves and changes all the time, and there's no point in wishing for it to stay static. However, you're totally entitled to your opinion on the matter, and a lot of people, theist and non-theist alike, agree with you. 🙂

Personally, I don't so much care for the word "bright" and wouldn't have picked it myself, but I like the idea behind the campaign and I'm not about to quibble because the word sounds too nice.
 
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Tiktaalik said:
You're getting to it. There's a distinction between "atheism" as an impartial descriptor of a person's orientation within the greater continuum of belief and a public or personal identification as an atheist. You can point to a person's beliefs and say "he believes there is no god, therefore his beliefs are atheistic". A person can also point to to himself or herself, either publicly or privately, and say "I am an atheist", claiming the word as a marker of identity. This is a complexity that arises when discussing people who espouse any ideology - on the one hand, there is a bald statement of category ("that person is a Republican, because he agrees with Republican beliefs"), on the other, there is an identity which the person allies himself or herself with ("I am a Republican, and I attend party meetings and enjoy talking to like-minded people").

So, in my case, I don't believe in a god or gods or angels or demons or anything like that. I have a naturalistic worldview. I identify as a "bright", because I like the idea of the Brights Project, which seeks to escape the strong negative connotation associated with the word "atheist" and create a broader umbrella term that encompasses agnostics with a naturalistic worldview. Basically, it seeks to do the same thing to unify the non-believing community that "queer" seeks to do in unifying the LGBTQ community. However, there is an "atheist community" of people who embrace the term atheist and use it to identify themselves.

So, you're absolutely right that, by definition, someone capable of holding belief in a god has to sit somewhere as either a theist, atheist, agnostic, or apatheist, but, as zeebra pointed out, people's identities do not fit nicely into these boxes. A strong atheist is what you would call an atheist (positively believes there is no god), while a "weak" atheist is really an agnostic (does not believe in god, but does not believe this with 100% certainty). Even Richard Dawkins admits that strong atheism is indefensible and calls himself a weak atheist (a technical agnostic), yet he still identifies as an atheist. See how confusing it gets?

This is why I objected to just pointing to the dictionary and saying "Atheists positively believe there is no god". I do not believe in a god, like most atheists/brights, and there is a real distinction that the dictionary definition is not helpful in elucidating.

If you want further reading on this, Richard Dawkins covers it quite eloquently in The God Delusion.

Here's more on the brights, too.
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Well, this has been a healthy debate and I have enjoyed seeing your point of view.

This started out as a discussion on the actual definition of atheism. I argue that it is the belief that there is NO god. The 'a' in the word tells me so. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, you argue that one can have doubts about the existence of a god and still be an atheist. For instance, your reference to Richard Dawkins states, "Even Richard Dawkins admits that strong atheism is indefensible." You are correct about that, btw. I have The Portable Atheist here by Christopher Hitchens and he quotes Dawkins as saying, "Why There Almost Certainly is No God." That word 'almost' says to me that Dawkins is not saying, without a shadow of a doubt, there is no god. This is what I have a problem with. I do not feel that there can be 'strong' atheists or 'weak' atheists. You either are or are not an atheist.

The American Atheist website defines atheism as, "a lack of belief in gods, from the original Greek meaning of "without gods." Furthermore, they state that, "the common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings." So, by that definition, you are an atheist. But the website for Brights states that they are not atheists. That is where my confusion comes in.

In my humble opinion, it seems as though 'Bright' might just be a euphamism for the word atheist because of the negative connotation that atheism brings. Maybe this is where all the confusion is coming from. I have witnessed first hand the negative reaction people have when one says to them they are an atheist because my husband is one. Because of this, he tries to keep it to himself. People treat him differently when they find out, and forget about difficulties he has experienced at work as a result of exposure.

Thank you, again for helping educate me about some things. However, I believe we are just going to have to agree to disagree. If it walks like a dog, barks like a dog, smells like a dog, it has to be a dog.

Here's the link to the American Atheist website:
 
@Abby: Lulzy pics are fine, but rudeness for no reason? Totally not cool.

@DogTyred: I think half of all discussions on the internet are spent trying to figure out what the other person is trying to say. :laugh: I really should never have bothered to mention the possibility of an "official" definition - that was confusing and I apologize. I haven't been trying to convince you that the dictionary definition of atheist is anything but what is printed in the dictionary, only that that definition is not an accurate reflection of reality and is therefore unhelpful.

That said...
(a) - Of course I'm correct about that. I read his book and he wrote what I said he did in the book (The God Delusion, pp. 73-74). The primary source is good enough.
(b) - The inconsistency between your personal opinion and the opinion of The American Atheists alone should illustrate that the question of "what is an atheist" is not completely settled.
(c) - The term "bright" encompasses atheists, apatheists and agnostics, so while it functions to cast off some of the negative associations with the word "atheist", it also serves to create a unifying term that removes the need for the discussion that we just had. Atheists can be brights, but not all brights are atheists. Squares and rectangles. By your own definition, I'm not an atheist, right? Even in your posts, you've been using the term atheist to refer to technical agnostics and strong atheists alike. The term bright would create some consistency. I've mentioned this in myriad ways over the course of this discussion, but people keep reading "spin job, spin job, spin job." Movements can have multiple purposes.

Certainly you may use the term atheist to refer to whatever you like - I'm only illustrating that your usage does not jibe with the terminology nonbelievers use to identify themselves.
 
AbbyNormal said:
fixd
Click to expand...

I'm not a mod, but speaking as a fellow community member: I would really appreciate it if you did not misquote other users, particularly in such a negative way. It's confusing, adds nothing of value to the thread, and undermines an otherwise respectful and productive discussion.


To everyone else, I've been following this thread and I'm enjoying "hearing" the different perspectives. It's refreshing to see a discussion of religion, atheism, spirituality, etc., that hasn't descended into utter offended chaos :laugh: I think it's usually a struggle to communicate when the subject is both abstract and emotionally charged, and being limited to what can be conveyed by the written word doesn't help matters at all. Still, it's fascinating to learn about different beliefs.
 
absvet said:
Me too!!!!
Click to expand...

HURRAH I'M NOT ALONE! 😀 I noticed your status says NYC - I grew up in the Metro-NY district, though I'm actually from NJ. You didn't go to All Souls by chance, did you?
 
Whyevernot55 said:
HURRAH I'M NOT ALONE! 😀 I noticed your status says NYC - I grew up in the Metro-NY district, though I'm actually from NJ. You didn't go to All Souls by chance, did you?
Click to expand...

No, I grew up in Central Mass - Brookfield Unitarian Universalist! I loved that church - no rules! Just be nice and respectful!
 
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