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yohimbine1

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    Actually I would pretty much agree. I've had to make a lot of sacrifices due to the hours...things that really used to make me happy and that I've had to seriously neglect. Friends..exercise, sleep, romance..basically everything. I somewhat dislike the content bef def hate the hours. I'm always sleep deprived and am getting in worse shape, it's disheartening

    I'm on Medicine but I don't know if I foresee it being much better on most other rotations. Surg next and I'm def not counting on that...sigh
     
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    Pinkertinkle

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      Actually I would pretty much agree. I've had to make a lot of sacrifices due to the hours...things that really used to make me happy and that I've had to seriously neglect. Friends..exercise, sleep, romance..basically everything. I somewhat dislike the content bef def hate the hours. I'm always sleep deprived and am getting in worse shape, it's disheartening

      I'm on Medicine but I don't know if I foresee it being much better on most other rotations. Surg next and I'm def not counting on that...sigh
      Outpatient stuff really isn't so bad. In terms of hours Medicine and Surgery are necessary evils. Just know you'll get through it and then you can focus on some specialty that's lighter on the hours allowing you time to achieve balance and contentment.
       

      surrender903

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        Actually I would pretty much agree. I've had to make a lot of sacrifices due to the hours...things that really used to make me happy and that I've had to seriously neglect. Friends..exercise, sleep, romance..basically everything. I somewhat dislike the content bef def hate the hours. I'm always sleep deprived and am getting in worse shape, it's disheartening

        I'm on Medicine but I don't know if I foresee it being much better on most other rotations. Surg next and I'm def not counting on that...sigh

        for quick workouts i suggest burpees.
         

        Doctor Bagel

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          I'm just finishing up ob/gyn, and it's definitely been a real shock to my system. I've realized that the things that make me miserable are never getting outside (partially the fault of the horrible summer weather) and not feeling like I have any real control over my schedule. From what I've heard, my current schedule is close to as bad as surgery and worse than medicine, so I guess it'll get better.

          I'm definitely not buying the whole 3rd year is so much better than 2nd year stuff.
           
          I like 3rd year a hell of a lot more than second year. My first month of IM was awesome. My second month completely sucked (at the VA with a crappy attending) but it was still better than M2. Now I'm on neuro and although I will be happy if I never ever see another stroke, it's been a decent month nonetheless.

          Honestly, I just think that I hated the first two years so much that you could probably put me in the Gulags and I'd say "still beats the first two years"
           

          JustPlainBill

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            Actually, I'm lovin' every minute of it....seriously.....stressing about the shelf though....

            First month on Medicine kinda bit the big one...had two residents, one really cool and interested in getting you started down the right path and realizing it was your first month....the other learned that the quickest way to the heart is through the back...small minded pissmire who used pimping to show how smart they were...but when counter-pimped with the ubiquitous 'I don't know, doctor, what IS the next step'...gave you the momentary deer-in-the-headlights, oh, crap, he's asking me look and then
            quickly changed the subject....never available by phone/pager and came to rounds w/o a stethoscope....Attending was ok yet very distracted...lectured on numerous topics other than medicine and never seemed to pick up on the fact that students had to study for things outside of wards....

            Second month is great---really good team. Resident is way, way cool-- has a philosophy that once a case loses educational value, move the students onto another case. Asks for presentations that are directly related to the shelf and big hitters in medicine, set out what he wanted us to learn from the rotation on the first day and has been real supportive. Interns are fantastic and really want to get us involved and help us prepare for our intern year. Attending is great -- follows the old command rule of 'praise in public, counsel in private' and wants to develop students. When I asked, has offered to help me on how to study for 3rd year and for Step 2'.....heck, this month has made me really consider Medicine as a residency whereas the last month made me consider Truckmasters Driving Academy or the local police force.....

            The hours ARE long but the second month has been shorter than the last and the resident knows we have exams coming up and wants us to do well....so he gives us as much time as possible.....
             

            DOCTORSAIB

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              Third year BLOWS. Worst year in med school, IMO.

              Little sleep, little control over your schedule, you barely know anything, you look RIDICULOUS in a short white coat, brief moments of teaching in between long periods of just plain inefficiency, annoying/stupid interns who forgot they were MEDICAL STUDENTS a month ago, passive-aggresive personalities (Ob/Gyn), etc, etc. The list goes on and on.

              Here's how I handled it: Don't care about the eval but crush the shelf. Every month I had a "cousin's wedding" to attend in California so I took a 4 day weekend to myself. I'd sleep in, party, shop, see family. We were allowed 2-3 days off per rotation at PCOM. I made sure I used my personal days as a 3rd yr!

              OTOH, 1st and 2nd yr were the best yrs, hands down.
               

              indo

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                I love being continuously updated on the brangelina saga between sessions of determining if post-partum women have farted or pooped.

                The med students who whine the most are the ones who have never had a job.
                 

                JustPlainBill

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                  I love being continuously updated on the brangelina saga between sessions of determining if post-partum women have farted or pooped.

                  The med students who whine the most are the ones who have never had a job.

                  Mmmm, I'm sure you mean a job where you didn't have to say,"Would you like fries with that?".....or "Would you like me to get the next larger size for you, sir?"......I'm sure you mean the ones where you were paid a salaried wage and expected to perform or were paid hourly but expected to perform like salaried.....and your boss, with all the foibles, basically controlled your life no matter how much you 'studded up' to your buds after work and threatened to quit ...realizing the mortgage and your family eating was holding you back from walking out and 'making it on your own'....right?

                  BTDT, got the cap,ball,bat,hat and glove.....
                   

                  DOCTORSAIB

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                    I love being continuously updated on the brangelina saga between sessions of determining if post-partum women have farted or pooped.

                    The med students who whine the most are the ones who have never had a job.

                    Umm...I've worked 3 different professional jobs in banking, 2 years in clinical medicine and a year at the NIH before stepping foot in med school.

                    Third year still blows.
                     
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                    indo

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                      Mmmm, I'm sure you mean a job where you didn't have to say,"Would you like fries with that?".....or "Would you like me to get the next larger size for you, sir?"......I'm sure you mean the ones where you were paid a salaried wage and expected to perform or were paid hourly but expected to perform like salaried.....and your boss, with all the foibles, basically controlled your life no matter how much you 'studded up' to your buds after work and threatened to quit ...realizing the mortgage and your family eating was holding you back from walking out and 'making it on your own'....right?

                      BTDT, got the cap,ball,bat,hat and glove.....

                      yeah, you know, paying your own rent... I'm surrounded by med students who didn't know how to file taxes because they'd never worked before. Straight from the gated community to the private school to the next private school then on to med school without having worked at all.

                      I don't know what all the baseball gear is for but you'll have trouble wearing both a hat and a cap.
                       

                      LuckyBambooGirl

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                        I loved third year overall, but there were definitely some moments that sucked, and some rotations that I really didn't care for. Just remember that you are only on each service for a few weeks. You can do anything for a few weeks, no matter how much you hate it!
                         

                        surrender903

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                          Third year BLOWS. Worst year in med school, IMO.

                          Little sleep, little control over your schedule, you barely know anything, you look RIDICULOUS in a short white coat, brief moments of teaching in between long periods of just plain inefficiency, annoying/stupid interns who forgot they were MEDICAL STUDENTS a month ago, passive-aggresive personalities (Ob/Gyn), etc, etc. The list goes on and on.

                          Here's how I handled it: Don't care about the eval but crush the shelf. Every month I had a "cousin's wedding" to attend in California so I took a 4 day weekend to myself. I'd sleep in, party, shop, see family. We were allowed 2-3 days off per rotation at PCOM. I made sure I used my personal days as a 3rd yr!

                          OTOH, 1st and 2nd yr were the best yrs, hands down.

                          while i dont agree with Saib on everything, i agree with him on usage of personal days. if you can get away with it more power to you.
                           

                          DOCTORSAIB

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                            so, you're one of the med students whining the most?

                            Let me spell this out for you son b/c you seem to be having trouble with it:

                            I said 3rd year blows.

                            You said med students who whine are often those with no work experience.

                            I said I have plenty of work experience, 3rd year still blows.

                            We on the same page here? Anyone home?
                             

                            ShyRem

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                              I think a great deal depends on your attending and your team. There are people with horrible teams that are really hating third year... I'm on a really wonderful team, learning a lot, doing a lot, and having a fabulous time.

                              Chin up. Perhaps next rotation will be better. Just remember how you felt and how others treated you when you have students of your own.
                               

                              Droopy Snoopy

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                                Let me spell this out for you son b/c you seem to be having trouble with it:

                                I said 3rd year blows.

                                You said med students who whine are often those with no work experience.

                                I said I have plenty of work experience, 3rd year still blows.

                                We on the same page here? Anyone home?

                                It's like when somebody in a crowd calls out "Hey a**hole!" and you turn around...
                                 

                                nightowl

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                                  I think the worst thing about third year is loving and hating some things about the rotations I've done- which makes it a lot harder to figure out what I want to do. I'm not one of those third years who already knows what specialty I want to do.

                                  I've done ob/gyn and peds.
                                  Ob/gyn- hours were terrible, didn't really enjoy the faculty or residents as much as pediatrics, but the surgery part was cool. I don't mind rounding on post-surg patients because it's so quick, but then again, there's not a lot of teaching either. I didn't like the material as much on ob/gyn, but love deliveries and surgery.

                                  Peds- the hours are FANTASTIC, the residents were all SO nice and fun to be around. I didn't even mind being on call, because they let us hang out in the resident's lounge and we all just hung out and watched tv and talked. whereas on ob/gyn we were not even allowed in the lounge 9/10, and when you were "invited" it was really, really awkward and quiet. Not nearly as friendly. But then dealing with kids... that's hard because they're kind of a mystery since they often can't tell you what's wrong.

                                  I do agree that so much of enjoying a rotation is who you're with. Hang in there everyone! I'm just looking forward to psychiatry and family!!! Never setting my alarm before 7:00:laugh:
                                   
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                                  yeah, you know, paying your own rent... I'm surrounded by med students who didn't know how to file taxes because they'd never worked before. Straight from the gated community to the private school to the next private school then on to med school without having worked at all.

                                  I don't know what all the baseball gear is for but you'll have trouble wearing both a hat and a cap.
                                  While I think I can imagine who you're talking about, I really haven't dealt with much of that.


                                  I just don't like being sleep-deprived. I don't mind long hours so much, I just hate dragging all day.
                                   
                                  I think a great deal depends on your attending and your team. There are people with horrible teams that are really hating third year... I'm on a really wonderful team, learning a lot, doing a lot, and having a fabulous time.

                                  Chin up. Perhaps next rotation will be better. Just remember how you felt and how others treated you when you have students of your own.
                                  Yeah, thus far I'd consider myself pretty fortunate as to having good people on my team. I'm kind of worried about how much it would suck if I had some real douchebags or gunners on my team.
                                   

                                  MJB

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                                    Let's just say if you get to do something other than sit in a lecture hall or sit on your ass studying a book or powerpoint all day, then I'm really looking forward to it.

                                    I can't imagine anything sucking the life out of me more than sitting around reading or trying to listen to another boring lecture 18 hours a day has done.
                                     

                                    Doctor Bagel

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                                      Let's just say if you get to do something other than sit in a lecture hall or sit on your ass studying a book or powerpoint all day, then I'm really looking forward to it.

                                      I can't imagine anything sucking the life out of me more than sitting around reading or trying to listen to another boring lecture 18 hours a day has done.

                                      Maybe that's why I'm more miserable because I completely ditched going or even listening to lectures 2nd year, and I even quit looking at powerpoints for the most part. I did a ton of reading, but I've had to do about as much reading on this last rotation. All in all, 2nd year was not a bad existence for me.

                                      As for the working before school thing, the plus about the job I held before going back to school was that I had a lot of autonomy. I didn't have to stick like glue to my superior, and I wasn't totally dependent on their arbitrary whims. So yeah, the loss I felt on this last rotation was just not having control.
                                       

                                      indo

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                                        While I think I can imagine who you're talking about, I really haven't dealt with much of that.


                                        I just don't like being sleep-deprived. I don't mind long hours so much, I just hate dragging all day.

                                        I'm kind of talking about a whole group of people. I don't really hold it against them or anything but complaining about an 8 hour shift is weak sauce. I guess I don't even care about complaining it is just that legendary med student sense of entitlement that irks me.
                                         

                                        cool c

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                                          I think the worst thing about third year is loving and hating some things about the rotations I've done- which makes it a lot harder to figure out what I want to do. I'm not one of those third years who already knows what specialty I want to do.

                                          I've done ob/gyn and peds.
                                          Ob/gyn- hours were terrible, didn't really enjoy the faculty or residents as much as pediatrics, but the surgery part was cool. I don't mind rounding on post-surg patients because it's so quick, but then again, there's not a lot of teaching either. I didn't like the material as much on ob/gyn, but love deliveries and surgery.

                                          Peds- the hours are FANTASTIC, the residents were all SO nice and fun to be around. I didn't even mind being on call, because they let us hang out in the resident's lounge and we all just hung out and watched tv and talked. whereas on ob/gyn we were not even allowed in the lounge 9/10, and when you were "invited" it was really, really awkward and quiet. Not nearly as friendly. But then dealing with kids... that's hard because they're kind of a mystery since they often can't tell you what's wrong.

                                          I do agree that so much of enjoying a rotation is who you're with. Hang in there everyone! I'm just looking forward to psychiatry and family!!! Never setting my alarm before 7:00:laugh:

                                          I agree with you completely. I hated third year cause of this constant "which one will I pick" worrying. Everything has a good and bad and it's difficult to pick one set of good and bad over the other. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the type of residents you had on a particular rotation though as this tends to vary by hospital. That is to say, peds residents can be so nice at one place and another place could be toxic.If you like a particular specialty, it's always possible to find a programs with tolerable atmosphere, even in Ob/gyn and Surgery.
                                           

                                          lil pook

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                                            third year is the year of the hazing...if you don't mind it, you'll be just fine

                                            if you don't mind doing ridiculous non-academic tasks, you'll be just fine

                                            if you don't mind rudeness from various sources, you'll be just fine

                                            and if you don't give a f*** what anyone thinks about you...you'll be just fine...really

                                            you'll be amazed at how well you can do by just getting by on rotations and killing the shelf...unless you are one of the unfortunates with an idiotic grading system at your school....everyone knows clinical grades are subjective mostly and just plain bullsh**....hell, half the time they can't even remember what the hell you look like..haha..how's that for cynicism? all your stress and hard work, and they don't even remember your face!!! HAHA!!!!!

                                            just glad it's over

                                            and it's the reason why I will not be going into clinical medicine...thank god almighty
                                             

                                            Old_Mil

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                                              Actually I would pretty much agree. I've had to make a lot of sacrifices due to the hours...things that really used to make me happy and that I've had to seriously neglect. Friends..exercise, sleep, romance..basically everything. I somewhat dislike the content bef def hate the hours. I'm always sleep deprived and am getting in worse shape, it's disheartening

                                              I'm on Medicine but I don't know if I foresee it being much better on most other rotations. Surg next and I'm def not counting on that...sigh

                                              At least on medicine rotations you get to think about medicine and so you don't get any stupider. Some of these consultant rotations where you just shadow, never write a note, never look at labs are really painful.

                                              I'll be very glad when I have my degree in hand.
                                               

                                              yohimbine1

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                                                these consultant rotations where you just shadow, never write a note, never look at labs are really painful
                                                I dunno...I would quite love that actually. I jush wish I could get more free time off. The time commitment of third year so far is killing me. And this relentless paperwork and rounding and micromanagement in Int Med is driving me insane. Can't wait til it's done at the end of this week.
                                                 
                                                I dunno...I would quite love that actually. I jush wish I could get more free time off. The time commitment of third year so far is killing me. And this relentless paperwork and rounding and micromanagement in Int Med is driving me insane. Can't wait til it's done at the end of this week.
                                                Yeah, I'm looking forward to shorter notes and H&Ps that don't easily run six pages.
                                                 

                                                radslooking

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                                                  i know the politically correct thing to say is that I loved 3rd year more than the first two years, I can't say I totally felt the same. the endless tests got old during second year, but at least i had time I could call my own. 3rd year kind of owns you.
                                                   

                                                  drdr2010

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                                                    i definitely like the material of 3rd year better and although i'm useless to my team, i enjoy being a part of it. but man, the hours suck. its not that i can't handle working a 13 hour day. but why does that day have to begin at 5:30am??

                                                    there is nothing more painful to me than waking up at dark o'clock every day. i had hoped medicine would convert me to a morning person, but it seems not so. thank goodness my ambulatory block starts next week, where clinic begins at 8:30am :)
                                                     

                                                    smq123

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                                                      Ob/gyn- hours were terrible, didn't really enjoy the faculty or residents as much as pediatrics, but the surgery part was cool. I don't mind rounding on post-surg patients because it's so quick, but then again, there's not a lot of teaching either. I didn't like the material as much on ob/gyn, but love deliveries and surgery.

                                                      If you didn't like the material, then this is a no-brainer - OB/gyn is not the field for you. Plain and simple.

                                                      You have to be interested in the material if you're going to be doing this for the rest of your life. You have to study the field in enough depth that you know what you're doing when you have the actual patient in front of you. You'll have required conferences and lectures to attend as a resident and as an attending, and if you don't like the material that much, you'll be miserable.

                                                      I loved ENT. Really loved the rotation. But I found that I was only minimally interested in the material - head and neck anatomy doesn't really excite me, and I wasn't that motivated to read at night. As much as I loved the surgeries, ENT was just not the field for me.

                                                      Peds- the hours are FANTASTIC, the residents were all SO nice and fun to be around. I didn't even mind being on call, because they let us hang out in the resident's lounge and we all just hung out and watched tv and talked. whereas on ob/gyn we were not even allowed in the lounge 9/10, and when you were "invited" it was really, really awkward and quiet. Not nearly as friendly. But then dealing with kids... that's hard because they're kind of a mystery since they often can't tell you what's wrong.

                                                      I would agree with others - don't be swayed by "environmental" factors. You might have a great resident and a great team at a wonderful hospital...but it doesn't mean that you'll be happy in that field. My intern on psych was one of my favorite residents all year, but there's no way that I could do psych for a living.

                                                      I really think that when you pick a specialty, you have to focus on the things that are ALWAYS going to be part of that field - the material that you need to learn in order to practice that field, the types of patients you will see, the "bread and butter" cases that will pay your bills. Otherwise, you might make a decision based on things that actually don't matter as much.

                                                      Don't stress about picking a field yet. You've only done two rotations so far! It's too early to make a decision - you just don't have enough info and enough experience yet to really decide. Just focus on doing as well as you can, and learning as much as you can, on each rotation as you do them. Eventually you'll find your niche. :luck:

                                                      Let's just say if you get to do something other than sit in a lecture hall or sit on your ass studying a book or powerpoint all day, then I'm really looking forward to it.

                                                      I can't imagine anything sucking the life out of me more than sitting around reading or trying to listen to another boring lecture 18 hours a day has done.

                                                      I couldn't imagine anything worse than sitting around reading all day, either.

                                                      That is, until I did inpatient peds.

                                                      If you think sitting in a lecture hall all day is bad - at least you don't have to pretend to be polite to a resident that you hate so much that you can't stand to be in the same room with her.

                                                      Or pretend to be interested while your other resident insists on telling you about her latest argument with her boyfriend. "I can't start my day without yogurt, it sets the tone for my whole day, if I don't have yogurt for breakfast then I don't feel right the rest of the day, and he knows that, but he didn't buy any when he went grocery shopping, can you believe that?, and it makes me wonder if he really loves me, and then when I asked him that he....blah, blah, blah." That conversation had to be a violation of the Geneva Convention.
                                                       
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