Anyone else have a hard time believing in evolution?

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I'm a practicing Christian and still don't understand why Christians have such a hard time accepting evolution. If you actually read and study it, the Bible and evolution can coexist almost fully in the forms that they are both generally taught/understood.

Jus' sayin'.

Absolutely not, Christianity and Evolution CANNOT coexist. Are you serious? Christianity says God created humans. Evolution says humans came from monkeys. Does that seem like they don't contradict each other to you?

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Absolutely not, Christianity and Evolution CANNOT coexist. Are you serious? Christianity says God created humans.

And who says God couldnt use evolution to create humans? People who try and place limitations on an omnipotent, all powerful being seem strange to me. Even if you don't believe in God, you have to acknowledge that if he DID exist it would be silly to say he couldnt do whatever he wanted.

Evolution says humans came from monkeys.

No it doesnt. Our closest living genetic relative has long been thought to be the chimp (though more recently some have come to believe we are more closely related to orangutans) and we certainly didnt evolve directly from them. It baffles me how literally millions of people still believe a monkey went to sleep one night and woke up a couple feet taller and had critical thinking skills.

Does that seem like they don't contradict each other to you?

No, but I can see how it might appear like they do to a remarkably simple mind
 
This logic of transformation from one organism to the other baffles me because it explicitly contradicts the law of second thermodynamics, which is widely known as entropy. Entropy states that the disorder in the system always increases or stays the same. So, how likely is that more complex organisms have been evolved from less complex organisms, unless there was a creator who created all things. Any comment is welcomed.

This is why you shouldn't teach dumbed down versions of complex concepts. It can/will be used by idiots to justify damn near anything.
 
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I just want express my opinion. In the case of evolution, I personally believe that micro-evolution is indeed true. However, I don't believe that macro-evolution is even near possible. Let's take a few moment and trace our ancestry according to the evolution theory. You came from your parents. How about your parents? Your grandparents. Okay... let's trace your lineage even more. Evolution theory states that you came from chimpanzee and so on. This logic of transformation from one organism to the other baffles me because it explicitly contradicts the law of second thermodynamics, which is widely known as entropy. Entropy states that the disorder in the system always increases or stays the same. So, how likely is that more complex organisms have been evolved from less complex organisms, unless there was a creator who created all things. Any comment is welcomed.

People who make a distinction between micro and macroevolution as if they were inherently different have a very frail grasp of evolution on the whole. "Macro" evolution is simply microevolution on a larger scale. It's like the difference between viewing the ocean from a boat and viewing it from space. The ocean hasnt changed, you're just viewing it on a larger scale.

As for the thermodynamics argument, I've already addressed that. The concept of increasing entropy applies to an entire system, not an individual organism. In an open system (the universe), the entropy of the surroundings increases to compensate for decreased entropy of any individual entity. To prove this, just think about how a building is built. Using your logic, it could never happen as disordered materials come together to form a organized structure.
 
Science is based upon experiment. Scientific theory is derived from collective experimental results. Science cannot prove or disprove aspects of life such as religion, higher beings, or gods. I certainly do not know of any experiments that test for god's existence. People that adopt a stance of science vs. religion, then spew scientific theories as if they can be compared to religion, are sorely ignorant of basic scientific principles. To these people, go back to an elementary biology textbook, flip open the first chapter, and learn about the scientific method.
 
I would like to point out that as K strategists, we humans have a slow rate of population growth in regards to other strategists, relatively low levels of population, long generation spans, high complexity of morphology and biochemistry, and enormous bodies. All these factors limit an animal's capacity to change through natural selection and mutations.

Given the fact that biologist's have observed deleterious mutations outnumber beneficial ones anywhere from 10,000:1 to 10,000,000:1, for any one species to benefit from these mutations they must have an enormous population, small body size, and very short generation time. A few mutations that an organism survives through does not equate to evolution.

The fact of the matter is most animal species are driven to extinction by deleterious mutations and environmental stress, they don't simply 'evolve'.
 
There is no need to believe in evolution just as there is no need to believe in gravity; both are observable facts. On the most basal level, evolution is the changing of gene frequencies over time. This is an observable fact, not something that requires suspension of disbelief. Go back to Hardy-Weinberg. Once you understand that we can readily demonstrate (and reproduce the result) that population genetics shift over time, it should be clear that evolution is occuring all around us. I believe the difficulty for many people comes from the introduction of geological time scales. Our brief existence of ~80 years, and what little we can observe during that time, is so insignificant compared to approx. 4.5 billion years since the formation of planet Earth. Take those small, observable changes in genetic frequency and compound that over billions of years. Even events with seemingly impossible odds can occur many times within the span of billions of years. The odds of an individual being struck by lightning in the US are approximately 10^-6 every year. The odds of being struck within your lifetime, ~80 years, is 10^-4. Just because you haven't been struck by lightning doesn't mean that it isn't occuring all around us.

Source (http://www.weather.gov/om/lightning/medical.htm)

A proper scientific question is one that is testable, repeatable and disprovable. The scientific method doesn't explicitly prove anything--it only makes explanations more likely as repeated experiments fail to disprove a theory. Did an omnipotent being create the universe? Perhaps, but it isn't a question which belongs within the realm of science. It has no testable hypothesis nor results which are repeatable.

A reading assignment for those who are still confused: "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry A. Coyne.
 
There is no need to believe in evolution just as there is no need to believe in gravity; both are observable facts. On the most basal level, evolution is the changing of gene frequencies over time. This is an observable fact, not something that requires suspension of disbelief. Go back to Hardy-Weinberg. Once you understand that we can readily demonstrate (and reproduce the result) that population genetics shift over time, it should be clear that evolution is occuring all around us. I believe the difficulty for many people comes from the introduction of geological time scales. Our brief existence of ~80 years, and what little we can observe during that time, is so insignificant compared to approx. 4.5 billion years since the formation of planet Earth. Take those small, observable changes in genetic frequency and compound that over billions of years. Even events with seemingly impossible odds can occur many times within the span of billions of years. The odds of an individual being struck by lightning in the US are approximately 10^-6 every year. The odds of being struck within your lifetime, ~80 years, is 10^-4. Just because you haven't been struck by lightning doesn't mean that it isn't occuring all around us.

Source (http://www.weather.gov/om/lightning/medical.htm)

A proper scientific question is one that is testable, repeatable and disprovable. The scientific method doesn't explicitly prove anything--it only makes explanations more likely as repeated experiments fail to disprove a theory. Did an omnipotent being create the universe? Perhaps, but it isn't a question which belongs within the realm of science. It has no testable hypothesis nor results which are repeatable.

A reading assignment for those who are still confused: "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry A. Coyne.
We need more doctors...no people, like you.
 
There is no need to believe in evolution just as there is no need to believe in gravity; both are observable facts. On the most basal level, evolution is the changing of gene frequencies over time. This is an observable fact, not something that requires suspension of disbelief. Go back to Hardy-Weinberg. Once you understand that we can readily demonstrate (and reproduce the result) that population genetics shift over time, it should be clear that evolution is occuring all around us. I believe the difficulty for many people comes from the introduction of geological time scales. Our brief existence of ~80 years, and what little we can observe during that time, is so insignificant compared to approx. 4.5 billion years since the formation of planet Earth. Take those small, observable changes in genetic frequency and compound that over billions of years. Even events with seemingly impossible odds can occur many times within the span of billions of years. The odds of an individual being struck by lightning in the US are approximately 10^-6 every year. The odds of being struck within your lifetime, ~80 years, is 10^-4. Just because you haven't been struck by lightning doesn't mean that it isn't occuring all around us.

Source (http://www.weather.gov/om/lightning/medical.htm)

A proper scientific question is one that is testable, repeatable and disprovable. The scientific method doesn't explicitly prove anything--it only makes explanations more likely as repeated experiments fail to disprove a theory. Did an omnipotent being create the universe? Perhaps, but it isn't a question which belongs within the realm of science. It has no testable hypothesis nor results which are repeatable.

A reading assignment for those who are still confused: "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry A. Coyne.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
I would like to point out that as K strategists, we humans have a slow rate of population growth in regards to other strategists, relatively low levels of population, long generation spans, high complexity of morphology and biochemistry, and enormous bodies. All these factors limit an animal's capacity to change through natural selection and mutations.

Given the fact that biologist's have observed deleterious mutations outnumber beneficial ones anywhere from 10,000:1 to 10,000,000:1, for any one species to benefit from these mutations they must have an enormous population, small body size, and very short generation time. A few mutations that an organism survives through does not equate to evolution.

The fact of the matter is most animal species are driven to extinction by deleterious mutations and environmental stress, they don't simply 'evolve'.

lol 123
 
This thread's still going? :rolleyes:


There is no need to believe in evolution just as there is no need to believe in gravity; both are observable facts. On the most basal level, evolution is the changing of gene frequencies over time. This is an observable fact, not something that requires suspension of disbelief. Go back to Hardy-Weinberg. Once you understand that we can readily demonstrate (and reproduce the result) that population genetics shift over time, it should be clear that evolution is occuring all around us. I believe the difficulty for many people comes from the introduction of geological time scales. Our brief existence of ~80 years, and what little we can observe during that time, is so insignificant compared to approx. 4.5 billion years since the formation of planet Earth. Take those small, observable changes in genetic frequency and compound that over billions of years. Even events with seemingly impossible odds can occur many times within the span of billions of years. The odds of an individual being struck by lightning in the US are approximately 10^-6 every year. The odds of being struck within your lifetime, ~80 years, is 10^-4. Just because you haven't been struck by lightning doesn't mean that it isn't occuring all around us.

Source (http://www.weather.gov/om/lightning/medical.htm)

A proper scientific question is one that is testable, repeatable and disprovable. The scientific method doesn't explicitly prove anything--it only makes explanations more likely as repeated experiments fail to disprove a theory. Did an omnipotent being create the universe? Perhaps, but it isn't a question which belongs within the realm of science. It has no testable hypothesis nor results which are repeatable.

A reading assignment for those who are still confused: "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry A. Coyne.

:thumbup:

Belongs in the same realm as "Does Santa Claus really exist?"
 
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At this point, the only thing I'm having a hard time believing is how this thread is still alive
 
I feel like it's entirely time for:


images
 
Omg seriously guys if evolution were real how come we still have monkeys around?? They shoulda all evolved into humans by now!!!11
 
Omg seriously guys if evolution were real how come we still have monkeys around?? They shoulda all evolved into humans by now!!!11

OMGQFT!!!
And liek DUH God exists wher do u tink Jesus came frum?!! LOL
 
To those who say that Christianity and evolution cannot coexist:

They can. I've read the Bible front to back in its entirety (now working on reading it for a second time) and I'm a senior bio major who has been taught evolution at the college level.

Genesis does not contradict evolution and if you care to hear my evidence for this you can PM me, but I don't think its really worth it to whip out the supporting scripture or biological examples right now. Trust me though, it's no stretch...they can and do coexist.

A person who doesn't fully grasp religion cannot argue for or against religion; likewise, someone who doesn't fully grasp science can't argue for or against science. That being said, there is frankly a lot of wasted argument going down in this thread.
 
To those who say that Christianity and evolution cannot coexist:

They can. I've read the Bible front to back in its entirety (now working on reading it for a second time) and I'm a senior bio major who has been taught evolution at the college level.
Congratulations? You're somehow an expert because you've read the bible once/almost twice?
Genesis does not contradict evolution and if you care to hear my evidence for this you can PM me, but I don't think its really worth it to whip out the supporting scripture or biological examples right now. Trust me though, it's no stretch...they can and do coexist.
You best be trolling, rosey.

I patiently await your 'supporting evidence.' Or you don't want to post it here because it might elicit some, dare I say, peer reviewing?
 
To those who say that Christianity and evolution cannot coexist:

They can. I've read the Bible front to back in its entirety (now working on reading it for a second time) and I'm a senior bio major who has been taught evolution at the college level.

Genesis does not contradict evolution and if you care to hear my evidence for this you can PM me, but I don't think its really worth it to whip out the supporting scripture or biological examples right now. Trust me though, it's no stretch...they can and do coexist.

A person who doesn't fully grasp religion cannot argue for or against religion; likewise, someone who doesn't fully grasp science can't argue for or against science. That being said, there is frankly a lot of wasted argument going down in this thread.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Yeah, knock yourself right out buddy.:thumbdown:
 
I read somewhere that the question shouldn't be whether or not you "believe" in evolution but do you understand evolution. Take the gaps in knowledge that you have and see if those questions have been addressed directly, as opposed to pondering the theory as a whole.

Especially in medicine, where natural selection is a large part of your functions as a doctor.
 
I read somewhere that the question shouldn't be whether or not you "believe" in evolution but do you understand evolution. Take the gaps in knowledge that you have and see if those questions have been addressed directly, as opposed to pondering the theory as a whole.

Especially in medicine, where natural selection is a large part of your functions as a doctor.

Yeah, the idea of "believing" in evolution is silly. You can either accept the body of data or not. This isn't the tooth fairy.
 
I believe in evolution on a smaller scale, such as the differentiation of birds into closely related species of birds and the formation of drug resistant bacteria and microorganisms.

However, I don't believe in evolution of organisms into humans. Humans seem so complex and have a consciousness that other animals don't have. They also have different personalities and have such complex behaviors (both physiologically and psychologically) that I just don't think evolution from nothing could have produced them.
 
I don't have trouble believing in evolution, and I don't think spirituality and evolution are mutually exclusive.
 
I believe in evolution on a smaller scale, such as the differentiation of birds into closely related species of birds and the formation of drug resistant bacteria and microorganisms.

However, I don't believe in evolution of organisms into humans. Humans seem so complex and have a consciousness that other animals don't have. They also have different personalities and have such complex behaviors (both physiologically and psychologically) that I just don't think evolution from nothing could have produced them.

I don't really understand how you (and others) accept microevolution but not macroevolution. You do realize that macroevolution is simply the aggregate result of microevolution, right? It's just microevolution an effectively infinite number of times. I dunno, in my mind one naturally proceeds from the other.
 
I hereby assign everyone in this thread who does not believe in evolution to go see "Rise of The Planet of The Apes" when it comes out in theaters next month.
If after seeing apes develop conscious thoughts and intelligence and take over the Earth you still don't believe in evolution, then hot damn there's no helping YOU. You best renounce the modern world and move to an uninhabited corner of the Amazon.
 
I hereby assign everyone in this thread who does not believe in evolution to go see "Rise of The Planet of The Apes" when it comes out in theaters next month.
If after seeing apes develop conscious thoughts and intelligence and take over the Earth you still don't believe in evolution, then hot damn there's no helping YOU. You best renounce the modern world and move to an uninhabited corner of the Amazon.

lol
 
I hereby assign everyone in this thread who does not believe in evolution to go see "Rise of The Planet of The Apes" when it comes out in theaters next month.
If after seeing apes develop conscious thoughts and intelligence and take over the Earth you still don't believe in evolution, then hot damn there's no helping YOU. You best renounce the modern world and move to an uninhabited corner of the Amazon.

I see what you did there
 
Evolution is a fact.

Natural selection is a theory. It describes the mechanisms of evolution, and is a well-supported and established theory with no real competition among scientists. It is a theory in the exact same way gravity is a theory that explains why a certain attractive force exists between objects.

Creationism is an assertion.
 
Evolution is a fact.

Natural selection is a theory. It describes the mechanisms of evolution, and is a well-supported and established theory with no real competition among scientists. It is a theory in the exact same way gravity is a theory that explains why a certain attractive force exists between objects.

Creationism is an assertion.
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

And to everyone nattering on about how Genesis doesn't contradict science... well, sure, there's a long religious tradition of loosely interpreting scripture, even the Catholic Church officially "believes" in the Big Bang and Natural Selection these days. But you'll never win an argument with a scriptural literalist, because if you want to strictly interpret the Bible... you're going to end up a Young-Earth creationist.
 
Why did you bump this thread? It needs to die. It's almost as ridiculous as making a C/O 2018 thread.


I didn't have the 2 days of uninterrupted reading time required to wade through it until today.

Better question, why do you care?
 
I didn't have the 2 days of uninterrupted reading time required to wade through it until today.

Better question, why do you care?

Because it's annoying when the front page is covered with this crap because you had to get your two cents in rather than just let the thread die.
 
How is this thread still alive
 
Well, this has been entertaining. Love the intelligent and well versed arguments, the harshness not so much. Some of the comments are a bit petty aren't they? When I first saw the thread title my response was of course not, why is this even a discussion? I would like to say that while I am not at all religious, I have had very spiritual moments in observance of our world.
 
it is better to be pissed off than to be pissed on.

For real guys, the whole idea is stupidly simple. God made monkeys, God made monkeys evolve, God appeared in the form of a man named Darwin, sent to deliver us from our scientific sins. Ergo the origin of species is being added to the previously named pentateuch, re-named hexateuch. Alfred Russel Walace is the antichrist locked in an eternal struggle with Darwin (aka God). John Scopes was the second coming of the sacrificial lamb, crucified by the horrible state of Tennessee for dissemination of controversial acts, miracles, and a general sense of badassery...winning.
 
it is better to be pissed off than to be pissed on.

For real guys, the whole idea is stupidly simple. God made monkeys, God made monkeys evolve, God appeared in the form of a man named Darwin, sent to deliver us from our scientific sins. Ergo the origin of species is being added to the previously named pentateuch, re-named hexateuch. Alfred Russel Walace is the antichrist locked in an eternal struggle with Darwin (aka God). John Scopes was the second coming of the sacrificial lamb, crucified by the horrible state of Tennessee for dissemination of controversial acts, miracles, and a general sense of badassery...winning.

The dog in you're icon is adorable! is it yours?
 
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