APPIC Interview Invitation Thread (2021)

[foreverbull]

Is there a way to see statistics for sites from last year? Doesn't it seem like some sites aren't worth ranking high if you don't rank them first? For example, If someone interviewed at a site that is highly competitive but the applicant didn't really feel it was the best match. Since one is unlikely to match if it's not ranked as #1 on the applicant's list, kind of makes sense for that site be listed as the last in the rankings, so as not to prevent the applicant from matching to other less competitive sites.

APPIC always says to rank by your preference and don’t worry about sites and where you think they place you; using that approach would almost guarantee that you won’t get your actual preferences. Keep in mind that a pretty big chunk of folks won’t get their first choice—isn’t it around half do but half don’t? That’s what it was when I applied years ago.

If you weren’t impressed with a competitive site, rank them lower down where you see fit. A lot of folks actually run into this when they apply and interview at a range of sites—they find that they are surprised by how much they like X site that isn’t as “competitive” numbers-wise but has a good training program.

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[dcpsychdoc]

Is there a way to see statistics for sites from last year? Doesn't it seem like some sites aren't worth ranking high if you don't rank them first? For example, If someone interviewed at a site that is highly competitive but the applicant didn't really feel it was the best match. Since one is unlikely to match if it's not ranked as #1 on the applicant's list, kind of makes sense for that site be listed as the last in the rankings, so as not to prevent the applicant from matching to other less competitive sites.

I would caution against thinking in terms of “likelihood.” The Match depends on many factors. If you would prefer to go to a given program instead of Phase II, then you lose absolutely nothing by ranking it. On the other hand, if you would rather go to Phase II than potentially attend that program, then you should not rank it.

The advice to rank where you want to go, in order of preference, takes into account how the Match works. I know it is stressful, but that advice exists for a reason. Good luck! You are almost there!

 

[psychsike20]

I’ve read that the algorithm takes the site’s and the student’s preferences into account equally. What would happen in this example, assuming both sites offer only 1 spot-

Student A ranks site 1 as #2 and site 2 as #1.
Student B ranks site 1 as #1 and site 2 as #2.
Site 1 ranks Student A as #1 and Student B as #2.
Site 2 ranks Student B as #1 and Student A as #2.

Who matches where?

 

[beardedshrink]

I’ve read that the algorithm takes the site’s and the student’s preferences into account equally. What would happen in this example, assuming both sites offer only 1 spot-

Student A ranks site 1 as #2 and site 2 as #1.
Student B ranks site 1 as #1 and site 2 as #2.
Site 1 ranks Student A as #1 and Student B as #2.
Site 2 ranks Student B as #1 and Student A as #2.

Who matches where?

IIRC in this case I believe it goes to student preference. So student A would got to site 2 and B to site 1.

 

[WisNeuro]

The match algorithm remains the most overthought part of the process in applicants minds.

Seriously, rank your matches by preferences and forget about it til match day. It's really that easy.

 

[John Dory]

IIRC in this case I believe it goes to student preference. So student A would got to site 2 and B to site 1.

how does that work though?

 

[Cam_Chai19]

how does that work though?

Essentially, the algorithm begins by trying to match students to sites in the order of the student's preferences, and students either match there or move down to the next site on their list based on whether they were ranked by the site and then the site's preferences. So in the example student A and B would match with their top choices because their first choice sites ranked them, so the algorithm would tentatively match them with their first choice, and the students who were rated higher by the sites tentatively matched elsewhere first. I found the explanation in NMS's video helpful.

APPIC Match | The Matching Algorithm

natmatch.com

 

[beardedshrink]

Essentially, the algorithm begins by trying to match students to sites in the order of the student's preferences, and students either match there or move down to the next site on their list based on whether they were ranked by the site and then the site's preferences. So in the example student A and B would match with their top choices because their first choice sites ranked them, so the algorithm would tentatively match them with their first choice, and the students who were rated higher by the sites tentatively matched elsewhere first. I found the explanation in NMS's video helpful.

APPIC Match | The Matching Algorithm

natmatch.com

yea I knew I saw it somewhere!

 

[Neurogeek91]

Can someone name the top 5ish neuro programs?

 

[DietCokeSoda]

Can someone name the top 5ish neuro programs?

Pediatrics, adult, or lifespan?

 

[neuro_is_the_werd]

Received an e-mail from North Texas VA after interviewing that they would let us know if they intended to rank us or not. Does anyone know when we should expect to hear from them by?

Interesting! I interviewed there and did NOT receive this email... May I ask what track you were applying to? I wonder if that makes a difference...

 

[pleaseletmematch]

What are people's thoughts on BOP internships? Trying to decide how I should rank...

 

[WisNeuro]

What are people's thoughts on BOP internships? Trying to decide how I should rank...

Depends on what you want to do in your career. If you want to work in those settings, rank highly. If you want to work in a VA/AMC, probably not.

 

[John Dory]

Essentially, the algorithm begins by trying to match students to sites in the order of the student's preferences, and students either match there or move down to the next site on their list based on whether they were ranked by the site and then the site's preferences. So in the example student A and B would match with their top choices because their first choice sites ranked them, so the algorithm would tentatively match them with their first choice, and the students who were rated higher by the sites tentatively matched elsewhere first. I found the explanation in NMS's video helpful.

APPIC Match | The Matching Algorithm

natmatch.com

What does this mean:

"Furthermore, the matching algorithm can accommodate other special requirements, such as the matching of applicants as "couples", and the reversion of unfilled positions from one program to another in order to facilitate the filling of available positions."

And also, do most programs with multiple positions do this:
"If a program wishes to recruit a particular distribution of applicants based on specific applicant characteristics, the program can attempt to do this in the Match by dividing its available positions into separate types and submitting separate Rank Order Lists for each type of position."

Not that it will influence my ranking, just curious.

 

[John Dory]

Interesting! I interviewed there and did NOT receive this email... May I ask what track you were applying to? I wonder if that makes a difference...

Why would a program, except in kind of extreme circumstances, not rank a candidate they interviewed? Is there a limit to how many they can rank?

 

[pleaseletmematch]

Depends on what you want to do in your career. If you want to work in those settings, rank highly. If you want to work in a VA/AMC, probably not.

I am interested in both corrections and forensic, but not sure if I want to do a postdoc. Would doing an internship at a BOP affect my chances of getting a forensic postdoc fellowship?

 

[WisNeuro]

I am interested in both corrections and forensic, but not sure if I want to do a postdoc. Would doing an internship at a BOP affect my chances of getting a forensic postdoc fellowship?

If you are interested in forensic, I would plan on doing a postdoc. At the least, read up on requirements for ABPP. Best to make sure you meet training requirements early than have to scramble to make up later.

 

[beantownpsych]

Why would a program, except in kind of extreme circumstances, not rank a candidate they interviewed? Is there a limit to how many they can rank?

We don't rank applicants who we don't want coming to our program. These are individuals who we do not think have the training to succeed( sometimes applicants present themselves well in their essays, but it becomes clear from the interview that they do not have the clinical abilities to work with our patient population) or otherwise show bad judgment during the interview day (this has to be pretty outrageous behavior). Typically 1-2 applicants who interview are not ranked by my program each year (this is about 5% of those who interview).

 

[WisNeuro]

My guess is the same reasons why an applicant would choose to not rank a site to which they interviewed- not as good a fit, feel, or match...

Almost every year, there are 1-2 applicants who absolutely bomb the interview. Either they are wildly inappropriate, tell our interns that they only applied to our site so they wouldn't have to leave the area, or they are so far out of their element trying to reason out a vignette that they should not be applying anywhere. Those are the people who get a DNR designation.

 

[Neurogeek91]

Pediatrics, adult, or lifespan?

Adult!

 

[bostonfern]

I am interested in both corrections and forensic, but not sure if I want to do a postdoc. Would doing an internship at a BOP affect my chances of getting a forensic postdoc fellowship?

I know many people who have done BOP internships and then formal forensic fellowships and I am hoping to follow a similar path myself. That said, all of those folks did forensic evaluation heavy tracks at BOP sites as opposed to strictly correctional/RDAP, so I would say it depends what tracks you are ranking to some extent.

 

[DietCokeSoda]

Adult!

Ah, I'm not familiar with Adult but I think @WisNeuro posted some sites earlier on the thread related to adult neuro training. Sorry I couldn't be any help!

 

[student9295]

So, I interviewed at one site. I really liked it because it had everything I am interested in and more. However, I received negative feedback about the TD from 4 people who completed their internship there. I met the individual at the virtual interview and he was definitely not warm and friendly. However, the other psychologists were very open and forthcoming. How would you make sense of this?

 

[student9295]

We don't rank applicants who we don't want coming to our program. These are individuals who we do not think have the training to succeed( sometimes applicants present themselves well in their essays, but it becomes clear from the interview that they do not have the clinical abilities to work with our patient population) or otherwise show bad judgment during the interview day (this has to be pretty outrageous behavior). Typically 1-2 applicants who interview are not ranked by my program each year (this is about 5% of those who interview).

Would sites inform applicants who interviewed if they are no longer under consideration? That would be a common courtesy, as it would help the applicant make his or her decision about ranking.

 

[spacegiraffe]

So, I interviewed at one site. I really liked it because it had everything I am interested in and more. However, I received negative feedback about the TD from 4 people who completed their internship there. I met the individual at the virtual interview and he was definitely not warm and friendly. However, the other psychologists were very open and forthcoming. How would you make sense of this?

How much contact would you have with/how much does training rely on the TD? If they aren’t someone you’ll have a lot of direct contact or supervision with and you liked the others, maybe it wouldn’t be too much of a drawback?

 

[WisNeuro]

Would sites inform applicants who interviewed if they are no longer under consideration? That would be a common courtesy, as it would help the applicant make his or her decision about ranking.

We did not.

 

[summerbabe]

Would sites inform applicants who interviewed if they are no longer under consideration? That would be a common courtesy, as it would help the applicant make his or her decision about ranking.

I've never heard of this happening and it sucks to not know in advance. However, if sites and applicants are both ranking according to their true preferences, even if your top site doesn't rank you (and vice versa), the algorithm would work through the rest of your options.

I really liked it because it had everything I am interested in and more. However, I received negative feedback about the TD from 4 people who completed their internship there. I met the individual at the virtual interview and he was definitely not warm and friendly.

For me, it would really depend on the nature of the negative feedback. If it's limited to lack of warmth but the TD is still competent, fair, and responsive, I probably wouldn't put too much weight on it. But if they are having an outsized negative impact on the training year or negatively impacting people's future plans/success, that's a whole different story.

 

[beantownpsych]

Would sites inform applicants who interviewed if they are no longer under consideration? That would be a common courtesy, as it would help the applicant make his or her decision about ranking.

We do not. I know of no program that informs applicants of decision not to rank.

 

[student9295]

How much contact would you have with/how much does training rely on the TD? If they aren’t someone you’ll have a lot of direct contact or supervision with and you liked the others, maybe it wouldn’t be too much of a drawback?

I was told that there isn’t really a way to avoid the TD. Apologies for being ambiguous, but I was basically told that the individual has a history of targeting the interns. Additionally, all of them said that the experiences were great but the TD significantly impacted the overall internship year. Complaints have been filed against the TD but nothing has been done as he is still in the position.

 

[discolemonade]

I was told that there isn’t really a way to avoid the TD. Apologies for being ambiguous, but I was basically told that the individual has a history of targeting the interns. Additionally, all of them said that the experiences were great but the TD significantly impacted the overall internship year. Complaints have been filed against the TD but nothing has been done as he is still in the position.

Do you have any idea about whether you would rather have to deal with this toxic TD for your internship year or go through the process again next year? That could affect if you rank this site or no sites and go to phase 2. I think different people are affected to different extents by this sort of thing.

 

[matryoshka_brain]

Anyone else taking your last looks at the rank list?!

 

[student9295]

Anyone else taking your last looks at the rank list?!

Yes!!! I’m so nervous!

 

[student9295]

Do you have any idea about whether you would rather have to deal with this toxic TD for your internship year or go through the process again next year? That could affect if you rank this site or no sites and go to phase 2. I think different people are affected to different extents by this sort of thing.

So I have gone back and forth about this. I’ve dealt with a ton of toxic professionals in different areas. However, I believe that support is extremely important for internship. It’s awful because everything else about the site is perfect except for the TD.

 

[HelpBetter]

Bwahahaha was feeling super solid and good about my rank order for WEEKS and then suddenly this evening had a total freak out cold feet maybe I should change my mind about EVERYTHING moment. Now I've calmed down and am back to where I thought I was. Anybody else done this??

 

[student9295]

Bwahahaha was feeling super solid and good about my rank order for WEEKS and then suddenly this evening had a total freak out cold feet maybe I should change my mind about EVERYTHING moment. Now I've calmed down and am back to where I thought I was. Anybody else done this??

Yes!

 

[student9295]

These two weeks are going to last forever!

 

[bcliff]

Would sites inform applicants who interviewed if they are no longer under consideration? That would be a common courtesy, as it would help the applicant make his or her decision about ranking.

I don't think it would -- I think, in theory, an applicant could rank every site in the APPIC directory and it wouldn't impact the outcome of the match (e.g., the applicant would still rank at the first site on their list that also ranked the applicant high enough to match). If a site has one position and that position is filled by someone else, then that site may as well have not ranked you. I think the logic of ranking our true preferences still holds true in this scenario.

 

[healthpsychenthusiast]

Bwahahaha was feeling super solid and good about my rank order for WEEKS and then suddenly this evening had a total freak out cold feet maybe I should change my mind about EVERYTHING moment. Now I've calmed down and am back to where I thought I was. Anybody else done this??

Glad I am not the only one that experienced this...!

 

[neuro_is_the_werd]

Bwahahaha was feeling super solid and good about my rank order for WEEKS and then suddenly this evening had a total freak out cold feet maybe I should change my mind about EVERYTHING moment. Now I've calmed down and am back to where I thought I was. Anybody else done this??

Definitely! You are not alone Finding myself stuck on the middle tier of my rank. I genuinely don't know if I'd rather be at site 7 versus 8 so it comes to splitting hairs at this point. Wishing you luck in the match!

 

[Indiana_Jane]

Definitely! You are not alone Finding myself stuck on the middle tier of my rank. I genuinely don't know if I'd rather be at site 7 versus 8 so it comes to splitting hairs at this point. Wishing you luck in the match!

Same. 6/7/8 are killing me!

 

[WisNeuro]

Set it and forget it.

 

[missplum]

Set it and forget it.

Ugh the infomercial flashback I did not want to have! Thanks a lot

 

[almostphdiva]

I'm curious when y'all plan to end your current placement/traineeship/practicum assuming your internship start date is july 1. just want to get a sense of what a realistic timeframe is

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm curious when y'all plan to end your current placement/traineeship/practicum assuming your internship start date is july 1. just want to get a sense of what a realistic timeframe is

Depends on many things. Are you moving? If so, how far? How much time would you like in-between?

I didn't move for internship, but did move cross country for postdoc. I took a week in-between. But, I just wanted to get up and going. Got to do what's right for you.

 

[hellojyu]

Why do we have to wait TWOOOOO WHOOOLEEE WEEEEEKSSS if the computer is doing the work?! Why can’t we know Monday?!?

 

[ExecutiveDysfunction]

Why do we have to wait TWOOOOO WHOOOLEEE WEEEEEKSSS if the computer is doing the work?! Why can’t we know Monday?!?

You get to look forward to the famous Greg Keilin match news email which explains it!

In short, the match runs multiple times to ensure there are no errors or messed up rankings. The two weeks gives them time to troubleshoot, do any necessary follow up, and ensure the matches are correct.

But if you ask me, the computers run on applicant stress and fear.

 

[WisNeuro]

But if you ask me, the computers run on applicant stress and fear.

If we could find a way to harness the sheer power of irrational anxiety and fear of APPIC applicants, we could eliminate the need for fossil fuels for energy.

 

[Doctor Koala]

Pro Tip: Best way to keep your mind off any application wait time is by delving into a new project or learn a new subject completely outside your field.

 

[student9295]

Pro Tip: Best way to keep your mind off any application wait time is by delving into a new project or learn a new subject completely outside your field.

13 days!

 

[Neurogeek91]

@WisNeuro could you tell me the top adult sites for neuro nationwide in your opinion? Someone mentioned that you listed a few a while back, but I must have missed that post