APPIC Interview Invitation Thread (2021)

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Neurogeek91 said:
Do you guys think every site gives positive feedback to interviewees as a way to "butter them up"? For example, a supervisor I interviewed with at a site I am ranking highly was very complimentary and I am wondering if this is just part of the recruitment process.....i have heard from peers on internship that sites intentionally make applicants "feel special" because they too need to be ranked highly to match
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I wouldn't look too much into this at all. I'm just complimentary generally as an interviewer.
 
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thebalmofhurtminds said:
I wouldn't look too much into this at all. I'm just complimentary generally as an interviewee.
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Agreed. There is also still a VERY clear power differential in favor of the site. As much as we like to think we have some power as interviewees in choice, it’s still very much a site choosing you (or not choosing you). Certainly you rank them as well, but it’s not an egalitarian process at all.

Some interviewers are kinder and friendlier, etc. but it’s probably not because they’re worried you won’t choose THEM.
 
foreverbull said:
Agreed. There is also still a VERY clear power differential in favor of the site. As much as we like to think we have some power as interviewees in choice, it’s still very much a site choosing you (or not choosing you). Certainly you rank them as well, but it’s not an egalitarian process at all.
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Interesting. How do you know that? I thought it’s 50/50, and in only certain circumstances student’s choice may prevail.
 
mamux said:
Interesting. How do you know that? I thought it’s 50/50, and in only certain circumstances student’s choice may prevail.
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I meant in the sense that students are interviewed by sites and the onus is on them to appear as attractive candidates, not necessarily the other way around. Internship sites have many applicants to choose from, so they’re not in a position where they need to “sell” themselves whereas interviewees are in a more vulnerable position. Hence my opinion that it’s inherently not egalitarian. You don’t get to ask all the questions and pose them first, choose which sites to interview yourself, etc. they choose YOU for interviews and beyond based on a large pool of applicants—or not at all. Interviewees don’t get that same choice; they do pick sites they like, but they have to just hope the site finds their application worthy of the next step in the process.
 
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The ranking and matching algorithm is generally egalitarian. But the sites being able to choose applicants definitely should favor the sites. This is not a lottery process, every applicant is not equal. Egalitarian is not the ideal, nor should it be in that circumstance.

Additionally, stronger applicants have more "power" in the dynamic than weak applicants, assuming they applied to places with good fit. This is how it should work.
 
WisNeuro said:
The ranking and matching algorithm is generally egalitarian. But the sites being able to choose applicants definitely should favor the sites. This is not a lottery process, every applicant is not equal. Egalitarian is not the ideal, nor should it be in that circumstance.

Additionally, stronger applicants have more "power" in the dynamic than weak applicants, assuming they applied to places with good fit. This is how it should work.
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I agree with WisNeuro on this one.
 
Does anyone know if APPIC match statistics take into account multiple tracks? For example, I anticipate ranking 3 tracks within one site, so if I got my third choice track at my top choice site, would APPIC consider that as me receiving my third choice? Currently entering the panic mode of which sites I'm most likely to potentially match with in terms of ranking. Trying to figure out how carefully to decide between rank #8 and rank #9, etc.
 
thatswhatipsych said:
Does anyone know if APPIC match statistics take into account multiple tracks? For example, I anticipate ranking 3 tracks within one site, so if I got my third choice track at my top choice site, would APPIC consider that as me receiving my third choice? Currently entering the panic mode of which sites I'm most likely to potentially match with in terms of ranking. Trying to figure out how carefully to decide between rank #8 and rank #9, etc.
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I believe the statistics do take the tracks into account, because you’re still ranking a separate number (that just happens to be part of the same site). That’s my understanding anyway.
 
Received an e-mail from North Texas VA after interviewing that they would let us know if they intended to rank us or not. Does anyone know when we should expect to hear from them by?
 
psyched1100 said:
Received an e-mail from North Texas VA after interviewing that they would let us know if they intended to rank us or not. Does anyone know when we should expect to hear from them by?
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IIRC, programs are supposed to submit their lists before applicants submit their rankings (but don't quote me on that). None of the sites I interviewed with sent me any f/u during my year btw.

Regardless, if you would be happy matching to this site, rank it according to your true preference as you will not be penalized by their ranking (or lack thereof).

Check out the APPIC FAQs if you've yet to do so and good luck!
 
Considering a move to a different state for internship and wondering if anyone has insight on this: Are interns moving to different state able to obtain housing with just the internship stipend as proof of income? So unsure about how that works
 
psychedtobedone2022 said:
Considering a move to a different state for internship and wondering if anyone has insight on this: Are interns moving to different state able to obtain housing with just the internship stipend as proof of income? So unsure about how that works
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I stayed in-state for internship, but moved from a rural area to a major city. For the apartment I ended up leasing, I had to show proof of my internship stipend, as well as have a co-signer (something I haven't had to do since undergrad). The place I rented from had a minimum income requirement and my stipend did not meet it. I think my dad showed proof of his income as a co-signer, but never had to do anything related to payments (as I took out loans to supplement the discrepancy). Not sure if that helps...
 
psychedtobedone2022 said:
Are interns moving to different state able to obtain housing with just the internship stipend as proof of income?
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If you're renting from a corporate-based apt complex, it likely will have a monthly income threshold (it was 3x for my internship and postdoc apts IIRC) so you may need a co-signer. I'd discuss this with leasing offices directly and see what options are available, especially if you can't find a co-signer. If you're gonna be in a college town, they may have a lot of experience with similar situations.

If you're taking out loans during internship year, that can count towards your income as well. And if you're planning on renting from an individual landlord, it'll be totally up to them but I imagine there might be more flexibility, especially if they think you'll be a responsible tenant. Good luck!
 
I am trying to understand how the algorithm works (watched some videos and read some of the emails we receive from APPIC), but still have a lingering question. Some of my sites were more competitive than others (e.g., interviewed ~80 applicants). I had one site in particular that only interviewed 12 this year (which they disclosed in an email). Does this somehow mean that I have a higher chance of going to the site that only interviewed 12 people, even if I rank it toward the bottom of my list? I hope this makes sense.
 
aahmed05 said:
I am trying to understand how the algorithm works (watched some videos and read some of the emails we receive from APPIC), but still have a lingering question. Some of my sites were more competitive than others (e.g., interviewed ~80 applicants). I had one site in particular that only interviewed 12 this year (which they disclosed in an email). Does this somehow mean that I have a higher chance of going to the site that only interviewed 12 people, even if I rank it toward the bottom of my list? I hope this makes sense.
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Not necessarily, because these are not chance events. I always caution people against applying match stats to their individual situation, because it's largely irrelevant. Even year to year. One site I have been at never fell out of the top 10 of its rankings for its neuro slots. It's general program usually never went out of top 20, but one year was in match II.
 
WisNeuro said:
Not necessarily, because these are not chance events. I always caution people against applying match stats to their individual situation, because it's largely irrelevant. Even year to year. One site I have been at never fell out of the top 10 of its rankings for its neuro slots. It's general program usually never went out of top 20, but one year was in match II.
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aahmed05 said:
I am trying to understand how the algorithm works (watched some videos and read some of the emails we receive from APPIC), but still have a lingering question. Some of my sites were more competitive than others (e.g., interviewed ~80 applicants). I had one site in particular that only interviewed 12 this year (which they disclosed in an email). Does this somehow mean that I have a higher chance of going to the site that only interviewed 12 people, even if I rank it toward the bottom of my list? I hope this makes sense.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you won't end up at that site (let's say you put it 10th), unless it's impossible for you to end up at sites 1-9. You wouldn't get placed at site 10 even if they had you placed #1, if you can end up at site #9.
 
olivethecutest said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you won't end up at that site (let's say you put it 10th), unless it's impossible for you to end up at sites 1-9. You wouldn't get placed at site 10 even if they had you placed #1, if you can end up at site #9.
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That's not necessarily correct. It depends on how sites 1-9 ranked applicants and how those applicants ranked sites 1-9. If sites 1-9 had you ranked lower, and generally matched with their top applicants (who also presumably ranked those corresponding sites highly), then you will fall farther down your rank list.
 
WisNeuro said:
That's not necessarily correct. It depends on how sites 1-9 ranked applicants and how those applicants ranked sites 1-9. If sites 1-9 had you ranked lower, and generally matched with their top applicants (who also presumably ranked those corresponding sites highly), then you will fall farther down your rank list.
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Thank you to all who responded, I think it's starting to click for me. I had a fear that even if my #1 or #2 site ranked me highly, I would go to my #10 site if they ranked me as #1 because the algorithm also prioritizes the needs of the site, and this #10 site had much less interviewees/applicants (and my #1 or #2 site likely have many people placing them at the top).
 
Hi all, I hope you’ve had a good week. While deliberating on ranking decisions, I’ve been in a really future-oriented state of mind...

I was wondering if anyone has any insight on the frequency/feasibility of loan repayment eligible positions (such as EDRP, NHSC, PSLF etc.) for neuropsychologists specifically (considering the settings in which neuropsychologists typically work). Based on the research I’ve done and the EDRP threads I’ve pored over, it seems that these positions are a bit hard to come by (and a bit more available in rural areas), and I would assume that this is especially the case for neuropsychologists? For example, I took a look at the current EDRP-eligible job postings and only one of them was a neuropsych position.

I was wondering if anyone has any insight on the frequency/feasibility of loan repayment eligible positions (such as EDRP, NHSC, PSLF etc.) for neuropsychologists specifically (considering the settings in which neuropsychologists typically work). Based on the research I’ve done and the EDRP threads I’ve pored over, it seems that these positions are a bit hard to come by (and a bit more available in rural areas), and I would assume that this is especially the case for neuropsychologists? For example, I took a look at the current EDRP-eligible job postings and only one of them was a neuropsych position.

Any insight would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
 
aahmed05 said:
Thank you to all who responded, I think it's starting to click for me. I had a fear that even if my #1 or #2 site ranked me highly, I would go to my #10 site if they ranked me as #1 because the algorithm also prioritizes the needs of the site, and this #10 site had much less interviewees/applicants (and my #1 or #2 site likely have many people placing them at the top).
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If they ranked you highly you would match there. If they have 10 spots, but rank you as #15, 5 people of the 10 would need to go somewhere else for you to have a chance. If you are #11 on their list, only 1 person needs to go somewhere else for you to match there. The number is interviewees is important, but it is also important to consider number of positions. 12 interviewees for 1 position is not better than 80 people competing for 10 spots.
 
aahmed05 said:
Thank you to all who responded, I think it's starting to click for me. I had a fear that even if my #1 or #2 site ranked me highly, I would go to my #10 site if they ranked me as #1 because the algorithm also prioritizes the needs of the site, and this #10 site had much less interviewees/applicants (and my #1 or #2 site likely have many people placing them at the top).
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It completely depends on EXACTLY how highly your top sites rank you and how many positions are open there, as well as how highly applicants ranked them who were ranked highly by the site.

Let’s say your #1 site has 3 slots and they rank you in the top 3. You’d match there. Let’s say they rank you #7. If those 6 other applicants ranked them highest or very high, the first few would match there and the algorithm moves on to the next site you ranked and so on, and if you got to site 10 because all 9 sites you ranked higher didn’t rank you highly enough, you’d match at #10, yes.

At the end of the day, if you get your 10th site, it’s not the end of the world. If you ranked them at all, that means you trust that their training will be a good experience and were willing to go there.
It’s okay if it’s not your top choice.
 
PsyDchick said:
I was wondering if anyone has any insight on the frequency/feasibility of loan repayment eligible positions (such as EDRP, NHSC, PSLF etc.) for neuropsychologists specifically (considering the settings in which neuropsychologists typically work).
Click to expand...
EDRP is basically available for every staff psychologist position that's ever posted at my VA due to our inability to hire and retain. I watch USAJob postings pretty frequently and there are other facilities that also typically include EDRP in their postings, as well as facilities that will never offer it. And some facilities offer it selectively based on position (HBPC, ICMHR).

My hunch is that facilities like mine get allotted a large EDRP cap each fiscal year because positions typically don't get filled without incentives and then lack of staffing drives down facility metrics like access but facilities that are doing OK with their metrics won't get this incentive.

I don't have a lot of insight into VA NP, but it seems like there is far less staff turnover in NP than other clinics like PTSD or general outpt MH, where people come and go more frequently (to other VAs, private sector or other clinics at the same VA).

And some sites (especially ones with NP postdocs, like the site where I completed mine) will look to hire their trainees when there's a good fit. For example, if MH leadership wants to add a new NP position, they can gather data for hospital leadership which justifies adding an additional FTE and if approved, also sometimes secure the opportunity to do a direct hire so those jobs will never show up on USAJobs.

Or if they know a current staff NP will be leaving, they can also work with MH/hospital leadership to authorize the re-posting as direct hire. If one ends up in a position like this, you can always try to pre-negotiate with the hiring manager and see if EDRP can be authorized.

2 things to consider:
- Cruise USAJobs frequently and figure out what facilities usually offer EDRP and consider whether these are places that you could move to if a NP job pops up and you're selected.
- If you end up wanting to work in the VA system and you can't get EDRP during your first job, you can move to another job that offers EDRP later (not sure the exact program restrictions besides only being able enroll in EDRP once).
 
summerbabe said:
EDRP is basically available for every staff psychologist position that's ever posted at my VA due to our inability to hire and retain. I watch USAJob postings pretty frequently and there are other facilities that also typically include EDRP in their postings, as well as facilities that will never offer it. And some facilities offer it selectively based on position (HBPC, ICMHR).

My hunch is that facilities like mine get allotted a large EDRP cap each fiscal year because positions typically don't get filled without incentives and then lack of staffing drives down facility metrics like access but facilities that are doing OK with their metrics won't get this incentive.

I don't have a lot of insight into VA NP, but it seems like there is far less staff turnover in NP than other clinics like PTSD or general outpt MH, where people come and go more frequently (to other VAs, private sector or other clinics at the same VA).

And some sites (especially ones with NP postdocs, like the site where I completed mine) will look to hire their trainees when there's a good fit. For example, if MH leadership wants to add a new NP position, they can gather data for hospital leadership which justifies adding an additional FTE and if approved, also sometimes secure the opportunity to do a direct hire so those jobs will never show up on USAJobs.

Or if they know a current staff NP will be leaving, they can also work with MH/hospital leadership to authorize the re-posting as direct hire. If one ends up in a position like this, you can always try to pre-negotiate with the hiring manager and see if EDRP can be authorized.

2 things to consider:
- Cruise USAJobs frequently and figure out what facilities usually offer EDRP and consider whether these are places that you could move to if a NP job pops up and you're selected.
- If you end up wanting to work in the VA system and you can't get EDRP during your first job, you can move to another job that offers EDRP later (not sure the exact program restrictions besides only being able enroll in EDRP once).
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Thank you sooooo much for your response. This is incredibly helpful!
 
If I sent some sites additional questions I have about their internship training and don't hear back in a few days, is it appropriate to follow up again? After how long? I recognize everyone is probably very busy right now, but I also have a few questions about the site to help me finalize my rankings, which are due in a few days.
 
I am wondering if anyone has feedback or updates regarding the UAB consortium's accreditation status? I understand previously they were on probation but on interview they mentioned they no longer are? I searched for their status on APA CoA and the only update is from Fall 2019 (the status of on probation). I am wondering if anyone has any advice on how this should play a role in rankings and perspective of the site? Thank you!
 
faq329 said:
If I sent some sites additional questions I have about their internship training and don't hear back in a few days, is it appropriate to follow up again? After how long? I recognize everyone is probably very busy right now, but I also have a few questions about the site to help me finalize my rankings, which are due in a few days.
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It wouldn't hurt to follow up especially because rankings are due so shortly. Is their an associate training director or current intern you could contact as well?
 
faq329 said:
If I sent some sites additional questions I have about their internship training and don't hear back in a few days, is it appropriate to follow up again? After how long? I recognize everyone is probably very busy right now, but I also have a few questions about the site to help me finalize my rankings, which are due in a few days.
Click to expand...

I would encourage you to follow up after a couple days. Your questions are important, and it’s likely that people are slow in responding right now. Good luck! I hope you are able to get your questions answered.
 
healthpsychenthusiast said:
I am wondering if anyone has feedback or updates regarding the UAB consortium's accreditation status? I understand previously they were on probation but on interview they mentioned they no longer are? I searched for their status on APA CoA and the only update is from Fall 2019 (the status of on probation). I am wondering if anyone has any advice on how this should play a role in rankings and perspective of the site? Thank you!
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I can confirm that UAB is back to regular “accredited” status. You can check it out for yourself using the APA accreditation search here: APA-Accredited Programs
 
Is there a way to see statistics for sites from last year? Doesn't it seem like some sites aren't worth ranking high if you don't rank them first? For example, If someone interviewed at a site that is highly competitive but the applicant didn't really feel it was the best match. Since one is unlikely to match if it's not ranked as #1 on the applicant's list, kind of makes sense for that site be listed as the last in the rankings, so as not to prevent the applicant from matching to other less competitive sites.
 
Did anyone apply to the Cynthia Belar Scholarship and hear back yet?
 
AlmostDoctorDread said:
Is there a way to see statistics for sites from last year? Doesn't it seem like some sites aren't worth ranking high if you don't rank them first? For example, If someone interviewed at a site that is highly competitive but the applicant didn't really feel it was the best match. Since one is unlikely to match if it's not ranked as #1 on the applicant's list, kind of makes sense for that site be listed as the last in the rankings, so as not to prevent the applicant from matching to other less competitive sites.
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From what I understand the best thing you can do is rank sites in your order of preference. If that site is the one you least want to go to you should rank them last (or not at all if you would prefer Phase II over them). If that site is the third most you want to go to, rank them third. You can see available statistics of sites in their appic profile on the search directory. (Scroll down near the bottom) You can see how many people applied, how many interviewed, how many slots were available for match.
 
AlmostDoctorDread said:
Is there a way to see statistics for sites from last year? Doesn't it seem like some sites aren't worth ranking high if you don't rank them first? For example, If someone interviewed at a site that is highly competitive but the applicant didn't really feel it was the best match. Since one is unlikely to match if it's not ranked as #1 on the applicant's list, kind of makes sense for that site be listed as the last in the rankings, so as not to prevent the applicant from matching to other less competitive sites.
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APPIC always says to rank by your preference and don’t worry about sites and where you think they place you; using that approach would almost guarantee that you won’t get your actual preferences. Keep in mind that a pretty big chunk of folks won’t get their first choice—isn’t it around half do but half don’t? That’s what it was when I applied years ago.

If you weren’t impressed with a competitive site, rank them lower down where you see fit. A lot of folks actually run into this when they apply and interview at a range of sites—they find that they are surprised by how much they like X site that isn’t as “competitive” numbers-wise but has a good training program.
 
AlmostDoctorDread said:
Is there a way to see statistics for sites from last year? Doesn't it seem like some sites aren't worth ranking high if you don't rank them first? For example, If someone interviewed at a site that is highly competitive but the applicant didn't really feel it was the best match. Since one is unlikely to match if it's not ranked as #1 on the applicant's list, kind of makes sense for that site be listed as the last in the rankings, so as not to prevent the applicant from matching to other less competitive sites.
Click to expand...

I would caution against thinking in terms of “likelihood.” The Match depends on many factors. If you would prefer to go to a given program instead of Phase II, then you lose absolutely nothing by ranking it. On the other hand, if you would rather go to Phase II than potentially attend that program, then you should not rank it.

The advice to rank where you want to go, in order of preference, takes into account how the Match works. I know it is stressful, but that advice exists for a reason. Good luck! You are almost there!
 
I’ve read that the algorithm takes the site’s and the student’s preferences into account equally. What would happen in this example, assuming both sites offer only 1 spot-

Student A ranks site 1 as #2 and site 2 as #1.
Student B ranks site 1 as #1 and site 2 as #2.
Site 1 ranks Student A as #1 and Student B as #2.
Site 2 ranks Student B as #1 and Student A as #2.

Who matches where?
 
psychsike20 said:
I’ve read that the algorithm takes the site’s and the student’s preferences into account equally. What would happen in this example, assuming both sites offer only 1 spot-

Student A ranks site 1 as #2 and site 2 as #1.
Student B ranks site 1 as #1 and site 2 as #2.
Site 1 ranks Student A as #1 and Student B as #2.
Site 2 ranks Student B as #1 and Student A as #2.

Who matches where?
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IIRC in this case I believe it goes to student preference. So student A would got to site 2 and B to site 1.
 
John Dory said:
how does that work though?
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Essentially, the algorithm begins by trying to match students to sites in the order of the student's preferences, and students either match there or move down to the next site on their list based on whether they were ranked by the site and then the site's preferences. So in the example student A and B would match with their top choices because their first choice sites ranked them, so the algorithm would tentatively match them with their first choice, and the students who were rated higher by the sites tentatively matched elsewhere first. I found the explanation in NMS's video helpful.

APPIC Match | The Matching Algorithm

natmatch.com natmatch.com
 
Cam_Chai19 said:
Essentially, the algorithm begins by trying to match students to sites in the order of the student's preferences, and students either match there or move down to the next site on their list based on whether they were ranked by the site and then the site's preferences. So in the example student A and B would match with their top choices because their first choice sites ranked them, so the algorithm would tentatively match them with their first choice, and the students who were rated higher by the sites tentatively matched elsewhere first. I found the explanation in NMS's video helpful.

APPIC Match | The Matching Algorithm

natmatch.com natmatch.com
Click to expand...
yea I knew I saw it somewhere!
 
psyched1100 said:
Received an e-mail from North Texas VA after interviewing that they would let us know if they intended to rank us or not. Does anyone know when we should expect to hear from them by?
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Interesting! I interviewed there and did NOT receive this email... May I ask what track you were applying to? I wonder if that makes a difference...
 
Cam_Chai19 said:
Essentially, the algorithm begins by trying to match students to sites in the order of the student's preferences, and students either match there or move down to the next site on their list based on whether they were ranked by the site and then the site's preferences. So in the example student A and B would match with their top choices because their first choice sites ranked them, so the algorithm would tentatively match them with their first choice, and the students who were rated higher by the sites tentatively matched elsewhere first. I found the explanation in NMS's video helpful.

APPIC Match | The Matching Algorithm

natmatch.com natmatch.com
Click to expand...
What does this mean:

"Furthermore, the matching algorithm can accommodate other special requirements, such as the matching of applicants as "couples", and the reversion of unfilled positions from one program to another in order to facilitate the filling of available positions."

And also, do most programs with multiple positions do this:
"If a program wishes to recruit a particular distribution of applicants based on specific applicant characteristics, the program can attempt to do this in the Match by dividing its available positions into separate types and submitting separate Rank Order Lists for each type of position."

Not that it will influence my ranking, just curious.
 
neuro_is_the_werd said:
Interesting! I interviewed there and did NOT receive this email... May I ask what track you were applying to? I wonder if that makes a difference...
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Why would a program, except in kind of extreme circumstances, not rank a candidate they interviewed? Is there a limit to how many they can rank?
 
WisNeuro said:
Depends on what you want to do in your career. If you want to work in those settings, rank highly. If you want to work in a VA/AMC, probably not.
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I am interested in both corrections and forensic, but not sure if I want to do a postdoc. Would doing an internship at a BOP affect my chances of getting a forensic postdoc fellowship?
 
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