Applying EM; Withold comlex scores?

[CardiacLion]

Hey guys,

Applying ACGME - EM this cycle. Had pretty good stats up until this year:

STEP1: 246; COMLEX 1: 689
STEP 2: TBD (8/29 Release); COMLEX 2: 512
Solid CV with multiple research/volunteer experiences, and believe my SLOE's will be all honors.

Had a pretty steep drop from COMLEX 1 to 2; was wondering what the implications of withholding my COMLEX transcript till after interviews were? I'm only applying ACME, and my school suggested I solely release my USMLE transcript.

I'm anticipating my STEP 2 will be par/slightly lower than my STEP 1 from UWorld practice tests.

Anyone have experience with this?

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[DO2015CA]

You can’t unless you’ve already sent your comlex 1 score. They come bundles when you send the report to eras.

It’ll look funny if you don’t have a comlex 1 because they know you’ve taken it. They might infer worse things like maybe you failed level 2

 

[hallowmann]

Hey guys,

Applying ACGME - EM this cycle. Had pretty good stats up until this year:

STEP1: 246; COMLEX 1: 689
STEP 2: TBD (8/29 Release); COMLEX 2: 512
Solid CV with multiple research/volunteer experiences, and believe my SLOE's will be all honors.

Had a pretty steep drop from COMLEX 1 to 2; was wondering what the implications of withholding my COMLEX transcript till after interviews were? I'm only applying ACME, and my school suggested I solely release my USMLE transcript.

I'm anticipating my STEP 2 will be par/slightly lower than my STEP 1 from UWorld practice tests.

Anyone have experience with this?

If you get your Step 2 above your Step 1, forget about the COMLEX. If not, it will not make much of a difference. Places need to know that you passed though, so I would just submit and be done with it.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Hey guys,

Applying ACGME - EM this cycle. Had pretty good stats up until this year:

STEP1: 246; COMLEX 1: 689
STEP 2: TBD (8/29 Release); COMLEX 2: 512
Solid CV with multiple research/volunteer experiences, and believe my SLOE's will be all honors.

Had a pretty steep drop from COMLEX 1 to 2; was wondering what the implications of withholding my COMLEX transcript till after interviews were? I'm only applying ACME, and my school suggested I solely release my USMLE transcript.

I'm anticipating my STEP 2 will be par/slightly lower than my STEP 1 from UWorld practice tests.

Anyone have experience with this?

Someone posted last year that they only released USMLE transcript due to a failure on COMLEX. They claimed to have matched without the Comlex.
I think you will be fine either way, so just pick whatever's easier for you. I agree it doesn't look great, but I don't think it will matter that much. Your step 1 is definitely high enough to make up for it.

 

[InternistDO]

I was under the impression that 99% of ACGME programs only looked at your Step score and just cared that you passed COMLEX.

 

[hallowmann]

I was under the impression that 99% of ACGME programs only looked at your Step score and just cared that you passed COMLEX.

That is accurate.

 

[alprazoslam]

step is what matters don't sweat it. esp if you do better on step 2 they won't even look at a lower comlex 2.

shows how crappy lolclex is

 

[Jinxapotato]

If they ask why just say you spend a lot of time doing UWORLD and reading STEP UP TO MEDICINE, and neglected studying OMM. Then nobody cares

 

[ortnakas]

I wouldn't withhold it. Many programs don’t take it as seriously as your USMLE score, but they do need to know you passed it so you’ll be eligible to graduate and start on time. Risky to rank you otherwise.

 

[sab3156]

I wouldn't withhold it. Many programs don’t take it as seriously as your USMLE score, but they do need to know you passed it so you’ll be eligible to graduate and start on time. Risky to rank you otherwise.

Wouldn't programs just assume you passed if you are applying in the first place?

 

[ortnakas]

Wouldn't programs just assume you passed if you are applying in the first place?

Not necessarily. People who fail still apply for residency (pending retake and hoping for the best). There’s also people who just haven’t gotten around to taking it, which some places might still consider a riskier pick than someone who already has it in the rear view mirror.

 

[hallowmann]

Wouldn't programs just assume you passed if you are applying in the first place?

How could they assume that? People who failed boards apply all the time. Some people even match and end up with a match violation when they don't finish med school on-time, hence programs being burned in the past. There's no way for a program to know that you passed unless you release the scores.

 

[Rekt]

Hey guys,

Applying ACGME - EM this cycle. Had pretty good stats up until this year:

STEP1: 246; COMLEX 1: 689
STEP 2: TBD (8/29 Release); COMLEX 2: 512
Solid CV with multiple research/volunteer experiences, and believe my SLOE's will be all honors.

Had a pretty steep drop from COMLEX 1 to 2; was wondering what the implications of withholding my COMLEX transcript till after interviews were? I'm only applying ACME, and my school suggested I solely release my USMLE transcript.

I'm anticipating my STEP 2 will be par/slightly lower than my STEP 1 from UWorld practice tests.

Anyone have experience with this?

That's quite the assumption. How can you possibly know?

 

[CardiacLion]

I don't know, I said "believe."

Also, mid-course feedback, where they tell you what you're on track to get.

 

[CardiacLion]

Hey guys just to update: got a 234 on STEP 2, which is a drop from STEP 1 (246).

Any thoughts? Is this going to look bad? Should I safety apply to FM as per my school advisor?

I have a High Pass on my first SLOE, honors on my second SLOE.

 

[Brorthopedic]

Hey guys just to update: got a 234 on STEP 2, which is a drop from STEP 1 (246).

Any thoughts? Is this going to look bad? Should I safety apply to FM as per my school advisor?

I have a High Pass on my first SLOE, honors on my second SLOE.

No, apply broadly and you're going to crush the EM match. You are an extremely competitive applicant even with those Step 2/Level 2. The SLOEs pretty much guaranteed your match, don't lose sleep over it.

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

No, apply broadly and you're going to crush the EM match. You are an extremely competitive applicant even with those Step 2/Level 2. The SLOEs pretty much guaranteed your match, don't lose sleep over it.

I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Extremely competitive? No offense to OP but that’s not even close to accurate. An extremely competitive applicant would be an allopathic Student with 250+ on both steps, all honors pre clinical, AOA, all honors clinically, and top 10% on SLOEs. Having those letters DO behind the name automatically knocks any applicant down a notch. Obviously OP did well pre clinically and probably clinically as well. But that subpar step 2 takes it down a notch as well. Realistically OP is an above average applicant and should apply as such. Blowing smoke up peoples a**** is a surefire way to wreck their match chances and career.

 

[Rekt]

I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Extremely competitive? No offense to OP but that’s not even close to accurate. An extremely competitive applicant would be an allopathic Student with 250+ on both steps, all honors pre clinical, AOA, all honors clinically, and top 10% on SLOEs. Having those letters DO behind the name automatically knocks any applicant down a notch. Obviously OP did well pre clinically and probably clinically as well. But that subpar step 2 takes it down a notch as well. Realistically OP is an above average applicant and should apply as such. Blowing smoke up peoples a**** is a surefire way to wreck their match chances and career.

It's because most people are clueless when when it comes to how EM works nor the competitiveness of it. OP will match, but I agree he is not "extremely" competitive. He went from 76th percentile Step 1 to a 30th percentile Step 2 in arguably the specialty that cares the most about Step 2 out of all of them, with an equally huge dump from Level 1 to 2, which old AOA programs will notice.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

No, apply broadly and you're going to crush the EM match. You are an extremely competitive applicant even with those Step 2/Level 2. The SLOEs pretty much guaranteed your match, don't lose sleep over it.

I agree with the general thought that OP will match and doesn't seem like he needs an FM safety net. I think extremely competitive is overstating, but he is certainly someone I would expect to match.

 

[CardiacLion]

Ok.... so like what should I do? Apply broadly and hope for the best or apply FM backup or Transitional Year.

Man I just wanna match a. 3 year program in the Northeast.

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

Ok.... so like what should I do? Apply broadly and hope for the best or apply FM backup or Transitional Year.

Man I just wanna match a. 3 year program in the Northeast.

If I were you, I’d apply a bit broader normal just to be safe. 45-50 programs. And be realistic about where you’re aiming. A place like Bellevue? Not happening without a crazy connection. If you’re applying name brand program, it doesn’t count towards your total. You’ll match just fine. Just don’t get crazy thinking you’re going to be one of the DO’s at Yale or Harvard BIDMC.

I don’t want to shoot you down or discount your efforts and achievements. I just want you to approach things realistically and apply the best way you can

 

[Brorthopedic]

I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Extremely competitive? No offense to OP but that’s not even close to accurate. An extremely competitive applicant would be an allopathic Student with 250+ on both steps, all honors pre clinical, AOA, all honors clinically, and top 10% on SLOEs. Having those letters DO behind the name automatically knocks any applicant down a notch. Obviously OP did well pre clinically and probably clinically as well. But that subpar step 2 takes it down a notch as well. Realistically OP is an above average applicant and should apply as such. Blowing smoke up peoples a**** is a surefire way to wreck their match chances and career.

It's because most people are clueless when when it comes to how EM works nor the competitiveness of it. OP will match, but I agree he is not "extremely" competitive. He went from 76th percentile Step 1 to a 30th percentile Step 2 in arguably the specialty that cares the most about Step 2 out of all of them, with an equally huge dump from Level 1 to 2, which old AOA programs will notice.

Relax kids, he is extremely competitive for EM and will match. The fact that you're not mentioning his HP and honors on SLOEs shows how little both of you know about the process. He's not a God-tier applicant because he's a DO, but he'll match.

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

Relax kids, he is extremely competitive for EM and will match. The fact that you're not mentioning his HP and honors on SLOEs shows how little both of you know about the process. He's not a God-tier applicant because he's a DO, but he'll match.

I know reading is probably hard for you but Again with this inappropriate use of the words “extremely competitive”, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about in regards to EM. OP also said he “believes” his SLOE’s will be honors, no one actually knows what their SLOEs say, hence the anxiety that comes with the whole EM process.

And yes OP will match as long as he applies appropriately, but if he applies like an idiot because some jack wagon on the internet told him he’s “extremely competitive”, then it is absolutely possible he wouldn’t match because of your **** advice. The truly Extremely competitive applicants can apply to 15-20 big name programs in big cities and they won’t have an issue matching. This strategy is absolutely not realistic for OP so stop giving bad advice and blowing smoke up peoples ***.

 

[Brorthopedic]

I know reading is probably hard for you but Again with this inappropriate use of the words “extremely competitive”, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about in regards to EM. OP also said he “believes” his SLOE’s will be honors, no one actually knows what their SLOEs say, hence the anxiety that comes with the whole EM process.

And yes OP will match as long as he applies appropriately, but if he applies like an idiot because some jack wagon on the internet told him he’s “extremely competitive”, then it is absolutely possible he wouldn’t match because of your **** advice. The truly Extremely competitive applicants can apply to 15-20 big name programs in big cities and they won’t have an issue matching. This strategy is absolutely not realistic for OP so stop giving bad advice and blowing smoke up peoples ***.

I have a High Pass on my first SLOE, honors on my second SLOE.

Clearly you're the one that can't read. Don't run at me with your overly-aggressive, keyboard warrior posts child. Go away.

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

Clearly you're the one that can't read. Don't run at me with your overly-aggressive, keyboard warrior posts child. Go away.

Lol, aw did I upset you princess?

 

[Rekt]

Ok.... so like what should I do? Apply broadly and hope for the best or apply FM backup or Transitional Year.

Man I just wanna match a. 3 year program in the Northeast.

One of the least DO friendly parts of the country depending on what areas you include. I recommend applying broadly.

Relax kids, he is extremely competitive for EM and will match. The fact that you're not mentioning his HP and honors on SLOEs shows how little both of you know about the process. He's not a God-tier applicant because he's a DO, but he'll match.

Bro, I'm on my 4th EM away right now. Please tell me more about how I don't know about EM.

 

[Brorthopedic]

Bro, I'm on my 4th EM away right now. Please tell me more about how I don't know about EM.

Then you should know how important SLOEs are m8

 

[InternistDO]

There are a bunch of DO friendly/noncompetitive EM programs in the Northeast. Brookdale, Coney Island, Staten Island University, St Barnabas, Metropolitan, Brooklyn Hospital are in NYC, Newark Beth Israel, Morristown, St. Joes, RWJ New Brunswick, Nassau, and Good Samaritan are in north NJ or Long Island, Einstein, Aria, and Crozier Chester in or right next to Philly, plus every other program in PA that's not in Philly or Pittsburgh.

It's not like OP has a 210 on both steps or anything. Now, should you apply to programs outside the NE anyway? Probably a good idea for all DOs applying to competitive specialties to have backups or cast a wide net, unfortunately. But this isn't like trying to get a program in Southern California or something.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

OP is a DO with a strong downward trend in both USMLE and COMLEX, albeit with solid scores on both exams. They'll probably match EM with good SLOEs but I wouldn't call them a "strong" applicant per se, and "extremely competitive" definitely isn't the adjective I'd use to describe this applicant. Definitely don't think they need to double-apply in FM or IM though.

 

[CardiacLion]

Thought I would update this thread for anyone in the future who is in a similar position as I was.

I applied VERY broadly (75+ Programs), receiving 20+ interviews to date. Will be cancelling many in hopes that I can stay in my desired area.

As for my SLOE's: it seems like the comments I've received on my interviews reflect only good things (but who actually knows ).

Thanks for all the help guys - y'all are awesome and wish you only positive vibes and love this match cycle! Best of luck!

 

[Brorthopedic]

Thought I would update this thread for anyone in the future who is in a similar position as I was.

I applied VERY broadly (75+ Programs), receiving 20+ interviews to date. Will be cancelling many in hopes that I can stay in my desired area.

As for my SLOE's: it seems like the comments I've received on my interviews reflect only good things (but who actually knows ).

Thanks for all the help guys - y'all are awesome and wish you only positive vibes and love this match cycle! Best of luck!

20+ interviews and it's still early November. Good job man. like I said, you're an extremely competitive applicant.

 

[Mad Jack]

Should be fine

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Thought I would update this thread for anyone in the future who is in a similar position as I was.

I applied VERY broadly (75+ Programs), receiving 20+ interviews to date. Will be cancelling many in hopes that I can stay in my desired area.

As for my SLOE's: it seems like the comments I've received on my interviews reflect only good things (but who actually knows ).

Thanks for all the help guys - y'all are awesome and wish you only positive vibes and love this match cycle! Best of luck!

Get it son! Love hearing the followup, keep it up man!

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Exactly. The clueless MD intern here is like the pgy1 equivalent of meattornado: obnoxious.

OP applied to >75 programmes and got >20 interviews...applying broadly worked dude. Dunno which part of that outcome makes me clueless.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Don't withold scores. Programs will know you are trying to play a game and lie. If you are a DO student and you have Step 1/2 scores and a COMLEX 1 score, but no COMLEX 2, they know you are trying to lie to them. And that's way worse than a minor drop in your COMLEX.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Don't withold scores. Programs will know you are trying to play a game and lie. If you are a DO student and you have Step 1/2 scores and a COMLEX 1 score, but no COMLEX 2, they know you are trying to lie to them. And that's way worse than a minor drop in your COMLEX.

Lie about what? He hasn't done anything wrong.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Lie about what? He hasn't done anything wrong.

Intentionally withholding a score from a program is deceitful, maybe not a lie, but the whole reason for doing so is to try to hide from it. That's certainly the candidates right to do so. But understand, programs aren't stupid, and when they see that no Step 2 has been released when everyone else's has, they know you are trying to be deceitful. So while its the candidates right to do so, it's the programs right to bump you down the list or off it for being shady about your application. Just be honest.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Intentionally withholding a score from a program is deceitful, maybe not a lie, but the whole reason for doing so is to try to hide from it. That's certainly the candidates right to do so. But understand, programs aren't stupid, and when they see that no Step 2 has been released when everyone else's has, they know you are trying to be deceitful. So while its the candidates right to do so, it's the programs right to bump you down the list or off it for being shady about your application. Just be honest.

So if this guy was talking about not releasing a USMLE STEP II as a DO and was releasing his COMLEX I and II, what would you advice about that (not releasing an exam that he doesn't have to take to get his license)?

 

[deleted950463]

Release both scores. If your USMLE step 2 came back near USMLE step 1 but had a drop in COMLEX, reasonable ACGME PDs will just assume that you did poorly on the OMM portion that have no bearing to ACGME residency anyway.

If you don’t release COMLEX II they may assume you failed.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

So if this guy was talking about not releasing a USMLE STEP II as a DO and was releasing his COMLEX I and II, what would you advice about that (not releasing an exam that he doesn't have to take to get his license)?

Id still say to release it, however it looks less shady because the programs may just assume he elected not to take it.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Lawpy]

20+ interviews and it's still early November. Good job man. like I said, you're an extremely competitive applicant.

Extremely competitive has a specific meaning. The following definition is accurate:

An extremely competitive applicant would be an allopathic Student with 250+ on both steps, all honors pre clinical, AOA, all honors clinically, and top 10% on SLOEs.

Relax kids, he is extremely competitive for EM and will match. The fact that you're not mentioning his HP and honors on SLOEs shows how little both of you know about the process. He's not a God-tier applicant because he's a DO, but he'll match.

A God-tier applicant and an extremely competitive applicant mean the same thing.

Reason why I’m bringing this up is I don’t want readers of this thread to have a false impression on what extremely competitive means. Being competitive or above average will likely net a lot of interviews by applying smartly and broadly. But being a top applicant with strong application will net a lot of interviews at strong programs without the need to apply broadly.