Applying Ophthalmology- do I have a red flag

[Incentiveyes]

Alright y'all I'm worried
I'm applying to Ophtho this year, interviews went out last week (about 1/2 the programs have sent them out) and I have been getting crickets with no interviews at all. I'm worried I have a red flag in my app that I don't know about, or maybe I don't have a chance?

Possible red flags??
-Step 2: 242, not great
-Med school is pass/ fail ONLY until fourth year, so no chance to honor any rotations in my third year
-no AOA, but again med school is pass/ fail, AOA is based off voting
-some mention of LGBTQIA+ volunteer work in my application
-I did say I had high myopia as a kid, but that it left no lasting impact on my vision
-My one first author published publication does not have a PMID because it is in an international journal, it's also difficult to find without a physical copy
-NO home program

Other stats:
mid-tier US medical school
college GPA 3.99
Step 1: pass first time
Submitted Publications: 4 (2 in ophtho with one first author, 2 in other fields)
Abstracts: 2 (1 in ARVO ophtho, first author)
Oral Presentations: 4 all in Ophtho
Posters: 3, only 1 in Ophtho but only because my other Ophtho poster is listed as an abstract
Other Pubs (non-peer reviewed): 2
Honored all fourth year rotations (including 3 ophtho rotations and 1 neuro sub-I)
2 away rotations in Ophtho
Applied to 116 programs (RIP wallet)

Any insight is appreciated! I also have 1 straight up rejection, would it be a smart move to email that PD and coordinator and ask if there's anything on the app that causes it to be instantly filtered out? I used to think it was my step 2, but everyone I know didn't even do step 2 and have been getting interviews.

Thanks!

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[LetsDoThisThrowaway]

Frankly, I think it's a stats thing.

I go to a low-tier MD school, and the students applying Optho both have 265+ Step 2, a boatload of research, AOA, all honors or close to it, and they're sitting on "only" 3-4 IIs

Have you built up any strong connections in the field?

 

[medschoolaspirant]

Alright y'all I'm worried
I'm applying to Ophtho this year, interviews went out last week (about 1/2 the programs have sent them out) and I have been getting crickets with no interviews at all. I'm worried I have a red flag in my app that I don't know about, or maybe I don't have a chance?

Possible red flags??
-Step 2: 242, not great
-Med school is pass/ fail ONLY until fourth year, so no chance to honor any rotations in my third year
-no AOA, but again med school is pass/ fail, AOA is based off voting
-some mention of LGBTQIA+ volunteer work in my application
-I did say I had high myopia as a kid, but that it left no lasting impact on my vision
-My one first author published publication does not have a PMID because it is in an international journal, it's also difficult to find without a physical copy
-NO home program

Other stats:
mid-tier US medical school
college GPA 3.99
Step 1: pass first time
Submitted Publications: 4 (2 in ophtho with one first author, 2 in other fields)
Abstracts: 2 (1 in ARVO ophtho, first author)
Oral Presentations: 4 all in Ophtho
Posters: 3, only 1 in Ophtho but only because my other Ophtho poster is listed as an abstract
Other Pubs (non-peer reviewed): 2
Honored all fourth year rotations (including 3 ophtho rotations and 1 neuro sub-I)
2 away rotations in Ophtho
Applied to 116 programs (RIP wallet)

Any insight is appreciated! I also have 1 straight up rejection, would it be a smart move to email that PD and coordinator and ask if there's anything on the app that causes it to be instantly filtered out? I used to think it was my step 2, but everyone I know didn't even do step 2 and have been getting interviews.

Thanks!

Is this for the fact or your assumption? As most ophtho program has mentioned to submit application with step 2 score. Your step 2 is a little concern. I dont know anyone applying ophtho this year without step 2. At least in my school - none. All have step 2. But then ophtho dont care about these stats as much, as all are competitive applicants only, and so are you with all research you have. connections and network works more then stats. So contacting people you know in program (past alumni from your school in ophtho programs) and they pitch for you will work. You will get interviews thru that. Otherwise wait till end oct. mid nov. that is when larger invites go out as second round, after people have withdrawn interviews to take top programs interviews to meet cap of 15. All mid tier programs will send second wave of invites end oct-mid nov. I think random LOI will do very little to none. Finding connection gives much higher yield.

 

[Anakinmemer]

Ophtho is very competitive. I honestly just think you are a weak applicant. 242 + 1 publication (they don't give as much weight to submitted pubs because anyone can submit anything...quality is only proven when it is accepted) + mid tier school likely won't be enough to match unless you have someone that can make calls for you. Do everything in your power to find someone that can do that.

 

[medschoolaspirant]

Ophtho is very competitive. I honestly just think you are a weak applicant. 242 + 1 publication (they don't give as much weight to submitted pubs because anyone can submit anything...quality is only proven when it is accepted) + mid tier school likely won't be enough to match unless you have someone that can make calls for you. Do everything in your power to find someone that can do that.

Alright y'all I'm worried
I'm applying to Ophtho this year, interviews went out last week (about 1/2 the programs have sent them out) and I have been getting crickets with no interviews at all. I'm worried I have a red flag in my app that I don't know about, or maybe I don't have a chance?

Possible red flags??
-Step 2: 242, not great
-Med school is pass/ fail ONLY until fourth year, so no chance to honor any rotations in my third year
-no AOA, but again med school is pass/ fail, AOA is based off voting
-some mention of LGBTQIA+ volunteer work in my application
-I did say I had high myopia as a kid, but that it left no lasting impact on my vision
-My one first author published publication does not have a PMID because it is in an international journal, it's also difficult to find without a physical copy
-NO home program

Other stats:
mid-tier US medical school
college GPA 3.99
Step 1: pass first time
Submitted Publications: 4 (2 in ophtho with one first author, 2 in other fields)
Abstracts: 2 (1 in ARVO ophtho, first author)
Oral Presentations: 4 all in Ophtho
Posters: 3, only 1 in Ophtho but only because my other Ophtho poster is listed as an abstract
Other Pubs (non-peer reviewed): 2
Honored all fourth year rotations (including 3 ophtho rotations and 1 neuro sub-I)
2 away rotations in Ophtho
Applied to 116 programs (RIP wallet)

Any insight is appreciated! I also have 1 straight up rejection, would it be a smart move to email that PD and coordinator and ask if there's anything on the app that causes it to be instantly filtered out? I used to think it was my step 2, but everyone I know didn't even do step 2 and have been getting interviews.

Thanks!

These 2 aways are also your best bet. If they have already sent interviews out, then you should immediately contact them. If they have not, then you should remain hopeful, most programs will offer interviews to auditioning applicants.

 

[medschoolaspirant]

Ophtho is very competitive. I honestly just think you are a weak applicant. 242 + 1 publication (they don't give as much weight to submitted pubs because anyone can submit anything...quality is only proven when it is accepted) + mid tier school likely won't be enough to match unless you have someone that can make calls for you. Do everything in your power to find someone that can do that.

I think these are very strong words. while I agree, OP knows and would have liked more step 2. But we all also know step 2 is only 1 part of equation. Why I say this is, my profile is not very different then OP ( i have higher step 2 though), and I consider myself competitve applicant and not a weak one. patience is virtue. Panic will not help (only hurt). Make connections work.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Dual apply

 

[Anakinmemer]

I think these are very strong words. while I agree, OP knows and would have liked more step 2. But we all also know step 2 is only 1 part of equation. Why I say this is, my profile is not very different then OP ( i have higher step 2 though), and I consider myself competitve applicant and not a weak one. patience is virtue. Panic will not help (only hurt). Make connections work.

Telling OP they are a competitive applicant for moral support does not change the objective fact that all of their metrics are well below average for ophthalmology. OP asked why they are not getting interviews and I gave an honest answer, followed by advice. Phone calls from mentors are their best hope.

 

[Incentiveyes]

Frankly, I think it's a stats thing.

I go to a low-tier MD school, and the students applying Optho both have 265+ Step 2, a boatload of research, AOA, all honors or close to it, and they're sitting on "only" 3-4 IIs

Have you built up any strong connections in the field?

Thanks for the reply!
I think I have- I did research at Mass Eye and Ear since my first year and got strong LOR from them. I'm also pretty close to my mentors at my medical school, though that doesn't help much since we don't have a residency program.

 

[Incentiveyes]

Is this for the fact or your assumption? As most ophtho program has mentioned to submit application with step 2 score. Your step 2 is a little concern. I dont know anyone applying ophtho this year without step 2. At least in my school - none. All have step 2. But then ophtho dont care about these stats as much, as all are competitive applicants only, and so are you with all research you have. connections and network works more then stats. So contacting people you know in program (past alumni from your school in ophtho programs) and they pitch for you will work. You will get interviews thru that. Otherwise wait till end oct. mid nov. that is when larger invites go out as second round, after people have withdrawn interviews to take top programs interviews to meet cap of 15. All mid tier programs will send second wave of invites end oct-mid nov. I think random LOI will do very little to none. Finding connection gives much higher yield.

Thanks for the reply!
I know for a fact a lot of people didn't do step 2, got P on step 1, and have been getting interviews, but they also probably were able to honor their third year rotations and had ample research.
Thank you for the encouragement and advice, I'll reach out to people I know to see if I can get interviews that way as you've advised.
Thanks again!

 

[Incentiveyes]

Ophtho is very competitive. I honestly just think you are a weak applicant. 242 + 1 publication (they don't give as much weight to submitted pubs because anyone can submit anything...quality is only proven when it is accepted) + mid tier school likely won't be enough to match unless you have someone that can make calls for you. Do everything in your power to find someone that can do that.

Thanks for the reply!
You're right, my step 2 is really killing me. My publications have been accepted as 'under revision' which I think is a little better than just submitted but I wish the process to acceptance didn't take so long.
I'll be making some calls for sure, thank you for your advice!

 

[Incentiveyes]

These 2 aways are also your best bet. If they have already sent interviews out, then you should immediately contact them. If they have not, then you should remain hopeful, most programs will offer interviews to auditioning applicants.

Thanks for the reply!
One has, but apparently they have multiple dates for when they send out their first round. I was stupid and did two rotations at pretty high tier programs as I didn't have my step score back when I applied and I got some bad advice. I'll contact the program coordinator though and let them know about my 'continued interest'. Thanks again for the advice!

 

[Incentiveyes]

Dual apply

Will have to next year if I don't match! In all honesty, though, I really love ophthalmology. I'm passionate about it in a way I haven't found in other fields of medicine. I would rather not match this year and try again next year!

 

[Incentiveyes]

I think these are very strong words. while I agree, OP knows and would have liked more step 2. But we all also know step 2 is only 1 part of equation. Why I say this is, my profile is not very different then OP ( i have higher step 2 though), and I consider myself competitve applicant and not a weak one. patience is virtue. Panic will not help (only hurt). Make connections work.

Thank you for the reply and the words of encouragement! I'll try to work with my connections- does anyone have any advice on how to approach that? Do I just email my mentors and ask them to reach out for me or will that get awkward?

 

[medschoolaspirant]

Thanks for the reply!
One has, but apparently they have multiple dates for when they send out their first round. I was stupid and did two rotations at pretty high tier programs as I didn't have my step score back when I applied and I got some bad advice. I'll contact the program coordinator though and let them know about my 'continued interest'. Thanks again for the advice!

If I were you, I will rather contact my contact, whom I worked with during rotation. Resident or attending. Going thru Coordinator is normal route, where they get 100s of email every day with LOI. That goes in trash immediately. Contact. Or rather text resident and request them to bat for you. For me that route has worked to get interviews. Informal networking with people you know or worked with or alumni of your school (Even though you may not know them, as they are alumni, I have found them useful, as soon as I throw my school name)

 

[Incentiveyes]

If I were you, I will rather contact my contact, whom I worked with during rotation. Resident or attending. Going thru Coordinator is normal route, where they get 100s of email every day with LOI. That goes in trash immediately. Contact. Or rather text resident and request them to bat for you. For me that route has wroked to get interviews. Informal networking with people you know or worked with or alumni of your school (Even though you may not know them, as they are alumni, I have found them useful, as soon as I throw my school name)

Oh that's great advice, I'll do that!

 

[eyeeye_captain]

With ophtho being a small field, your biggest problem is coming from a school where you literally have nobody who can go to bat for you since there’s not a department. Yeah, the Step score and research output aren’t big winners, but those MEEI folks that wrote your letter are probably busy helping out the Harvard kids. If you can find someone who can reach out to some middle to lower tier programs where they have connections/where you might want to be, you’ll probably get an interview somewhere. We all know somebody in academics or know a guy who knows a guy.

There will also be some trickle down - people will start canceling interviews as they get more or have conflicts, so things tend to open up a little bit as you go. You applied to essentially every program in the country, so if there aren’t any red flags you didn’t mention, there’s always a chance.

 

[medschoolaspirant]

Will have to next year if I don't match!

if you see yourself doing any other specialty and will enjoy it as well, then it is not very late yet, as long as you can line up LOR. doesn't hurt. don't need to wait another year for it. if it doesn't work, then anyway next year will come.

 

[Incentiveyes]

With ophtho being a small field, your biggest problem is coming from a school where you literally have nobody who can go to bat for you since there’s not a department. Yeah, the Step score and research output aren’t big winners, but those MEEI folks that wrote your letter are probably busy helping out the Harvard kids. If you can find someone who can reach out to some middle to lower tier programs where they have connections/where you might want to be, you’ll probably get an interview somewhere. We all know somebody in academics or know a guy who knows a guy.

There will also be some trickle down - people will start canceling interviews as they get more or have conflicts, so things tend to open up a little bit as you go. You applied to essentially every program in the country, so if there aren’t any red flags you didn’t mention, there’s always a chance.

Thanks for the reply!
Yeah, it's been difficult for me and the other student from my program who has a much better step score but also not getting a lot in terms of interviews. I'll be asking my mentors a lot about possible connections they may have in the next week.
Thanks so much for the encouragement, this thread has at least given me something actionable to do while I wait so I really appreciate yours and everyone else's input!

 

[Incentiveyes]

If I were you, I will rather contact my contact, whom I worked with during rotation. Resident or attending. Going thru Coordinator is normal route, where they get 100s of email every day with LOI. That goes in trash immediately. Contact. Or rather text resident and request them to bat for you. For me that route has worked to get interviews. Informal networking with people you know or worked with or alumni of your school (Even though you may not know them, as they are alumni, I have found them useful, as soon as I throw my school name)

Could I ask how you phrased that message to your residents/ attendings? I'm having a hard time figuring out how to format the message without sounding desperate

 

[GoSpursGo]

I have to be honest, I agree that your app is not passing muster for a highly competitive and networking driven field like ophtho.

I think the three most important points are likely step 2, research output, and mentor/connections. If you are weak in any one of those three aspects it could potentially be overcome by a strength in the other two. Unfortunately, I suspect you are below average in all 3 areas. Step 2 speaks for itself. One pub (in a sketchy sounding unfindable journal) is definitely below average for the field (“in revision” does not count). And you were starting behind the eight ball by not having a home program, but it also doesn’t seem like you’ve leveraged potential connections at the institutions where you did aways. All of this for saying, there just isn’t a good reason for a potential program to give you an interview. You’re not applying in a vacuum, you’re being measured against a bunch of other highly qualified applicants, and if I can’t figure out where you are strong compared to your competition then PDs likely can’t either.

I think it is time to get worried and start thinking about a plan B. Could you pull out of 4th year and do a research year to get your submitted pubs over the finish line, get more pubs, and allow you to go network at national meetings? Do you need to apply for NRMP and be ready to SOAP? Or if you fail to match, can your school allow you to delay graduation and support a dual application next year? These are all questions you need to discuss with your school and figure out what makes the most sense for you.

 

[medschoolaspirant]

Could I ask how you phrased that message to your residents/ attendings? I'm having a hard time figuring out how to format the message without sounding desperate.

Could I ask how you phrased that message to your residents/ attendings? I'm having a hard time figuring out how to format the message without sounding desperate

Message construct has to be different for different people. for e.g. I worked with a resident/attending. I will construct like ... Hey XXX, This is XXX- M4 from XXX School. I had the opportunity to work with you , when I came to rotate at XXX. I am applying Ophtho this cycle and haven't seen much success getting interviews and feeling a little nervous. I am reaching out to you, if you can help me at your program, as you are there and please put my name for consideration for decision-makers. MY SF Match ID- XXXX. I greatly appreciate your help, if you could help me. If not, I completely understand. Same type of message for Alumni. but here you don't know them. hence I will phrase it more like I am XXX - M4 from XXX. I understand you are Alumni of XXX as a resident in Ophtho in Program XXX. then a similar message. if this sounds a little desperate, then so be it, there is not much to lose. If you look up for last 4 years of Alumni from your school, who all made it to Ophtho. Assuming there are 3-4 people doing Ophtho. you will get 12-16 people. who are still in those programs. Plus 2 away mentors. With these 15-20 people networking, I would have liked done earlier. but nothing to lose. now as well. Also if a mentor is willing to bat for you, then a different cycle to have them call people whom they know. again text message works better than email. if you don't have a cell number, then email is the only option left. Good Luck !! Have faith !!

 

[GoSpursGo]

FWIW, I would find it really off putting to have a trainee reaching out via text message, no matter how closely I may have worked with them (let alone if I don’t know them at all). For me text message is for things that are truly time sensitive. If you want me to think about advocating for you, please email instead.

N=1 and I’m not a surgeon, but my advice would be email and follow up after a couple of days if you don’t get a response

 

[medschoolaspirant]

FWIW, I would find it really off putting to have a trainee reaching out via text message, no matter how closely I may have worked with them (let alone if I don’t know them at all). For me text message is for things that are truly time sensitive. If you want me to think about advocating for you, please email instead.

N=1 and I’m not a surgeon, but my advice would be email and follow up after a couple of days if you don’t get a response

On second thought, I agree with this suggestion. Send email.

 

[percyeye]

I know Ophtho is a very competitive specialty but how difficult is it to get into a "lower tier" program?

 

[Incentiveyes]

Message construct has to be different for different people. for e.g. I worked with a resident/attending. I will construct like ... Hey XXX, This is XXX- M4 from XXX School. I had the opportunity to work with you , when I came to rotate at XXX. I am applying Ophtho this cycle and haven't seen much success getting interviews and feeling a little nervous. I am reaching out to you, if you can help me at your program, as you are there and please put my name for consideration for decision-makers. MY SF Match ID- XXXX. I greatly appreciate your help, if you could help me. If not, I completely understand. Same type of message for Alumni. but here you don't know them. hence I will phrase it more like I am XXX - M4 from XXX. I understand you are Alumni of XXX as a resident in Ophtho in Program XXX. then a similar message. if this sounds a little desperate, then so be it, there is not much to lose. If you look up for last 4 years of Alumni from your school, who all made it to Ophtho. Assuming there are 3-4 people doing Ophtho. you will get 12-16 people. who are still in those programs. Plus 2 away mentors. With these 15-20 people networking, I would have liked done earlier. but nothing to lose. now as well. Also if a mentor is willing to bat for you, then a different cycle to have them call people whom they know. again text message works better than email. if you don't have a cell number, then email is the only option left. Good Luck !! Have faith !!

Thank you so much !! I will definitely be using this advice and reaching out, thanks for taking the time to write that all out!

 

[Incentiveyes]

FWIW, I would find it really off putting to have a trainee reaching out via text message, no matter how closely I may have worked with them (let alone if I don’t know them at all). For me text message is for things that are truly time sensitive. If you want me to think about advocating for you, please email instead.

N=1 and I’m not a surgeon, but my advice would be email and follow up after a couple of days if you don’t get a response

Thank you so much for the insight!

 

[GoSpursGo]

I know Ophtho is a very competitive specialty but how difficult is it to get into a "lower tier" program?

Very

 

[medschoolaspirant]

I think, it may remain trickle down Vs. large initial dump. But large trickle down will happen in end oct- mid nov. my school advisor also confirmed that Ophtho will keep sending iv even in mid nov. Right now all spots are taken by top candidates for all these programs. It will happen as people fill up cap of 15 and are compelled to withdraw from mid tier low tier programs. Also Wills bascom etc… top ones comes later, so people will drop from these programs as top tier starts sending ivs. Then more slots will open for others.

 

[Incentiveyes]

I have to be honest, I agree that your app is not passing muster for a highly competitive and networking driven field like ophtho.

I think the three most important points are likely step 2, research output, and mentor/connections. If you are weak in any one of those three aspects it could potentially be overcome by a strength in the other two. Unfortunately, I suspect you are below average in all 3 areas. Step 2 speaks for itself. One pub (in a sketchy sounding unfindable journal) is definitely below average for the field (“in revision” does not count). And you were starting behind the eight ball by not having a home program, but it also doesn’t seem like you’ve leveraged potential connections at the institutions where you did aways. All of this for saying, there just isn’t a good reason for a potential program to give you an interview. You’re not applying in a vacuum, you’re being measured against a bunch of other highly qualified applicants, and if I can’t figure out where you are strong compared to your competition then PDs likely can’t either.

I think it is time to get worried and start thinking about a plan B. Could you pull out of 4th year and do a research year to get your submitted pubs over the finish line, get more pubs, and allow you to go network at national meetings? Do you need to apply for NRMP and be ready to SOAP? Or if you fail to match, can your school allow you to delay graduation and support a dual application next year? These are all questions you need to discuss with your school and figure out what makes the most sense for you.

Thank you for the reply!
I was really disappointed in myself with my step 2. what is especially frustrating is that my shelf exam scores were very good, but no one can see that because of our pass/ fail only system. And yes, I'm worried about my publication coming off as sketchy- I went abroad to conduct research in an under resourced country, unfortunately they didn't have the resources to archive my publication electronically at the time but of course there's no way for any program to know that.

I'm going to talk to my dean like you advised to ask about delaying graduation if I fail to match. I'm also going to try reaching out to the journal editors and try to expedite some of these publications. Thank you so much again for the advice!

 

[Incentiveyes]

Is there really a second round? I was under the impression most ophthalmology programs only have one round with trickles latter on as people drop. That would be great if there is a 2nd round for those with few to zero IV. GL OP.

Thanks for the reply and the good luck wishes! Hopefully there will be a good amount of trickle!!

 

[GoSpursGo]

I'm also going to try reaching out to the journal editors and try to expedite some of these publications.

Oh goodness please don’t do that—that is a great way to get on an editor’s bad side.

Your app is what it is, you’re not going to suddenly have a bunch of papers published coming to your rescue. Talk to your mentors and the PDs at places you did your aways. If you get to the middle of November and you’re still sitting on less than 5 interviews, then I think it is time to have an honest conversation about your prospects for ophtho. Your question needs to focus around whether you could become a viable candidate if you pulled out of rotations and got a near full year of research before ERAS next year. If the answer is still no, then that sucks, but you need to take that advice to heart.

 

[Hzreio]

Meet with your pds. I don't think youre a very competitive applicant.

 

[medicalstudentt]

Alright y'all I'm worried
I'm applying to Ophtho this year, interviews went out last week (about 1/2 the programs have sent them out) and I have been getting crickets with no interviews at all. I'm worried I have a red flag in my app that I don't know about, or maybe I don't have a chance?

Possible red flags??
-Step 2: 242, not great
-Med school is pass/ fail ONLY until fourth year, so no chance to honor any rotations in my third year
-no AOA, but again med school is pass/ fail, AOA is based off voting
-some mention of LGBTQIA+ volunteer work in my application
-I did say I had high myopia as a kid, but that it left no lasting impact on my vision
-My one first author published publication does not have a PMID because it is in an international journal, it's also difficult to find without a physical copy
-NO home program

Other stats:
mid-tier US medical school
college GPA 3.99
Step 1: pass first time
Submitted Publications: 4 (2 in ophtho with one first author, 2 in other fields)
Abstracts: 2 (1 in ARVO ophtho, first author)
Oral Presentations: 4 all in Ophtho
Posters: 3, only 1 in Ophtho but only because my other Ophtho poster is listed as an abstract
Other Pubs (non-peer reviewed): 2
Honored all fourth year rotations (including 3 ophtho rotations and 1 neuro sub-I)
2 away rotations in Ophtho
Applied to 116 programs (RIP wallet)

Any insight is appreciated! I also have 1 straight up rejection, would it be a smart move to email that PD and coordinator and ask if there's anything on the app that causes it to be instantly filtered out? I used to think it was my step 2, but everyone I know didn't even do step 2 and have been getting interviews.

Thanks!

Hello OP! Did you end up matching?