Are any current/future residents worried about getting a desired job?

[janeno]

So I talked recently to a resident who told me that she is not sure what she is doing after residency. She said that many hospitals in the area are saturated with pharmacists, and that it is hard to find "clinical" or maybe even "semi-clinical' position in this area. In fact, there is no openings for these positions as of right now. She would prefer to stay in this area because it is a nice metropolitan city and because of family reasons.

I also noticed that many people who completed here residency do only 50% clinical and 50% regular hospital job. So I feel like residency is a way for hospitals to get cheap labor for a year.

Is anyone concerned about this issue?

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[Hels2007]

Being a licensed pharmacist you are never in danger of starving, you may just have to settle for something you don't quite like for a few months until a position you want opens up. That's if you are unwilling to relocate - no one willing to relocate that I know of had trouble finding a job. A friend of mine who was tied to a specific oversaturated city did have to take a job at a home care pharmacy until a clinical position became available. Another friend of mine changed jobs twice in her first year on the open market, the first time because she hated her first job, the second time because her dream job opened up. Just be flexible, and you will be just fine.

 

[Allure]

The number of clinical positions are probably going to stay the same over the next few years, but the numbers of pharmacists with residencies are increasing every year. Even if you're willing to relocate, I don't know if there would be enough jobs out there. That's one of my biggest concerns right now too. I keep seeing the message, "more doors will open up if you do a residency", but I don't know how easy it would be to open those doors

 

[Trancelucent1]

The number of clinical positions are probably going to stay the same over the next few years, but the numbers of pharmacists with residencies are increasing every year. Even if you're willing to relocate, I don't know if there would be enough jobs out there. That's one of my biggest concerns right now too. I keep seeing the message, "more doors will open up if you do a residency", but I don't know how easy it would be to open those doors

In both hospitals that I did rotations in (I was in 2 different community hospitals) they were increasing the number of clinical positions and bringing in more clinical specialists. I interviewed in 3 hospitals that also were opening up clinical specialist positions or had them open. I think clinical specialist positions will be opening up (these usually are specialty positions with pharmacists with PGY-2's but not always). I think the idea of clinical pharmacy is changing and it seems like the physicians (at least in places that I've been to) are really pushing to have more pharmacists on their team. The reality is that they can be the best ally for pharmacists, it seems like if they want more pharmacists they get them.

 

[Fatpharm]

I've heard the same thing that residents are having a hard time finding purely clinical jobs. I'm beginning to believe that if someone doesn't want to specialize or go into a field that needs board certification, they are better off just going to find a job. The comment of flexibility of where to go get a job can also apply to those who don't do residencies. There are places where no one wants to go and the hospitals will train you. Granted it won't be purely clinical, but at least you won't lose $70,000 for getting the same job after doing a residency.

 

[janeno]

The number of clinical positions are probably going to stay the same over the next few years, but the numbers of pharmacists with residencies are increasing every year. Even if you're willing to relocate, I don't know if there would be enough jobs out there. That's one of my biggest concerns right now too. I keep seeing the message, "more doors will open up if you do a residency", but I don't know how easy it would be to open those doors

I agree with you that number of clinical jobs is not growing at the same rate as number of applicants for residencies. Hospital jobs especially clinical ones have such a low turnover rate, that for many residents it is a challenge to find a clinical position. Therefore, many hospitals try solving the problem by giving new employees 50% clinical and 50% regular staff jobs. It feels a little bit unfair to me just because you have to spend the whole year working 60-80 hrs/week and take a huge paycut in order to train for a job that will only involve 50% of the time using your skills obtained during the residency.

 

[janeno]

I've heard the same thing that residents are having a hard time finding purely clinical jobs. I'm beginning to believe that if someone doesn't want to specialize or go into a field that needs board certification, they are better off just going to find a job. The comment of flexibility of where to go get a job can also apply to those who don't do residencies. There are places where no one wants to go and the hospitals will train you. Granted it won't be purely clinical, but at least you won't lose $70,000 for getting the same job after doing a residency.

The problem with specializing (getting your PGY2) is that then for many jobs you will have to relocate. Well, at least that what most residents told me as their reason just for doing PGY1. Another problem is that being a clinical pharmacy specialist does not necessarily increase your salary. It seems it is a big sacrifice of spending 2 additional years after graduation doing residency and not getting much of increase in your salary. If you think about it, doctors only have to complete 3-4 years of residency to earn 300-400k (depending on specialty)- which is just 1-2 additional years after PGY2.

 

[Trancelucent1]

The problem with specializing (getting your PGY2) is that then for many jobs you will have to relocate. Well, at least that what most residents told me as their reason just for doing PGY1. Another problem is that being a clinical pharmacy specialist does not necessarily increase your salary. It seems it is a big sacrifice of spending 2 additional years after graduation doing residency and not getting much of increase in your salary. If you think about it, doctors only have to complete 3-4 years of residency to earn 300-400k (depending on specialty)- which is just 1-2 additional years after PGY2.

I don't think many people specialize expecting for a huge pay increase. Most residents I talk to specialize because that's the field they're interested in and it seems that most specialists do get those desirable (non order-entry) jobs. All of the institutions I interviewed at worked that way. I guess it just depends on your motivation and yes you often times will have to be willing to relocate. But also this is where contacts come into play, I've made quite a few contacts on rotations that offerred me positions after I finish my residency training. I also know of a few hospitals being built or expanding where I have contacts. Many residency program directors also know people all over the country. Like I said I think it's the motivation. The reason those jobs don't pay as much is because they are desirable for most people. I believe the incentives are not in pay but job satisfaction which is more important to me. Also, many people don't go into residency programs expecting to be losing out on 1-2 years of pay...I'm certainly not. I'm expecting to get back in education what I'm not getting in pay. Just like school, it's an investment.

 

[oncpharmd]

The problem with specializing (getting your PGY2) is that then for many jobs you will have to relocate. Well, at least that what most residents told me as their reason just for doing PGY1. Another problem is that being a clinical pharmacy specialist does not necessarily increase your salary. It seems it is a big sacrifice of spending 2 additional years after graduation doing residency and not getting much of increase in your salary. If you think about it, doctors only have to complete 3-4 years of residency to earn 300-400k (depending on specialty)- which is just 1-2 additional years after PGY2.

This is not true for me. I have a PGY1 and 2 with board certification. My job offers are higher than staff. A general rule is that specialists make 15% more than regular staff. Sure, you don't make much during your residency(ies), but you start seeing a return on investment 4-8 years after you start working. You'll also have better quality of life and job satisfaction.

 

[Fatpharm]

This is not true for me. I have a PGY1 and 2 with board certification. My job offers are higher than staff. A general rule is that specialists make 15% more than regular staff. Sure, you don't make much during your residency(ies), but you start seeing a return on investment 4-8 years after you start working. You'll also have better quality of life and job satisfaction.

It is my understanding that people are paid higher down the road if they participate in a highly competitive residency, but if someone goes to somewhere that isn't that desired or known they won't pay as much. What is your experience?

 

[oncpharmd]

In my experience, clinical specialists are paid better at big university hospitals. Big university hospitals like to hire people who were trained at (or currently work at) other big university hospitals. So yes, I believe that is true.

That is not to say that you CAN'T get a high paying job in an urban area if you do your residency at a small community hospital. It's just harder because of the applicant pool.

 

[janeno]

I don't think many people specialize expecting for a huge pay increase. Most residents I talk to specialize because that's the field they're interested in and it seems that most specialists do get those desirable (non order-entry) jobs. All of the institutions I interviewed at worked that way. I guess it just depends on your motivation and yes you often times will have to be willing to relocate. But also this is where contacts come into play, I've made quite a few contacts on rotations that offerred me positions after I finish my residency training. I also know of a few hospitals being built or expanding where I have contacts. Many residency program directors also know people all over the country. Like I said I think it's the motivation. The reason those jobs don't pay as much is because they are desirable for most people. I believe the incentives are not in pay but job satisfaction which is more important to me. Also, many people don't go into residency programs expecting to be losing out on 1-2 years of pay...I'm certainly not. I'm expecting to get back in education what I'm not getting in pay. Just like school, it's an investment.

I guess it comes down to job satisfaction. I do think that job satisfactions is more important than money, but at the same time I just wish I could start my desired job right after school. I already spent 4 years in undergrad, and it will be 4 more years in pharm school after I graduate. So an idea of spending 2 more years of working 60-80 hrs/week does not look appealing at this moment. I think I would want to go for one year residency, but I doubt that I will do the specialized residency afterwards. I just feel that economically residency does not make sense - you spend additional two years in training but your salary does not really increase much. (Don't get me wrong, I think residencies are good and I want to complete one as well; I just think that pharmacists are not appropriately compensated after completing their residencies unlike doctors.)

 

[janeno]

This is not true for me. I have a PGY1 and 2 with board certification. My job offers are higher than staff. A general rule is that specialists make 15% more than regular staff. Sure, you don't make much during your residency(ies), but you start seeing a return on investment 4-8 years after you start working. You'll also have better quality of life and job satisfaction.

That's good to know. Did you have to relocate to find your current job though?

 

[oncpharmd]

Most of the time, you'll have to relocate...unless you're really lucky!

 

[Fatpharm]

I'm ready to move to the boondocks anyway. The boondocks that has cheap housing that is.

 

[InternDoc]

The problem with specializing (getting your PGY2) is that then for many jobs you will have to relocate. Well, at least that what most residents told me as their reason just for doing PGY1. Another problem is that being a clinical pharmacy specialist does not necessarily increase your salary. It seems it is a big sacrifice of spending 2 additional years after graduation doing residency and not getting much of increase in your salary. If you think about it, doctors only have to complete 3-4 years of residency to earn 300-400k (depending on specialty)- which is just 1-2 additional years after PGY2.

I would disagree.
Requirements.
1. B.S degree (4 yrs),
2. MCAT exam
3. Med school (4 yrs)
4. Residency (3 minimum for Family), if you wants to specialize CARDIOLOGY, that's additional 3 yrs. = total 14 years (unlike pharmacy)

 

[InternDoc]

I would disagree.
Requirements.
1. B.S degree (4 yrs),
2. MCAT exam
3. Med school (4 yrs)
4. Residency (3 minimum for Family), if you wants to specialize CARDIOLOGY, that's additional 3 yrs. = total 14 years (unlike pharmacy)

forgot to add,
you have to take USMLE STEP 1, 2CS AND STEP 2 CLINICAL SKILLS BEFORE RESIDENCY

 

[spacecowgirl]

I'm relocating (by choice), got a great clinical job with lots of freedom and better pay than what I could have made in my current area as a clinical pharmacist (and only $2 less than Wags). I see a lot of residency-dissing around here and I think a lot of that is largely unfounded. I know very few residents who ended up doing something they could have done without a residency. I'm quite happy with where my amb care residency seems to be taking me. Of course ask me in a few months when I actually start working

I did a residency for my sanity. I have nothing but respect for retail pharmacists, but I could never do it. I would go crazy within a month. I needed to give myself the opportunity to work in other settings. The 4-day work week and 6 weeks PTO don't hurt either

ETA: I work long hours, but nowhere near the rumored 80 hours you hear around here

 

[janeno]

I'm relocating (by choice), got a great clinical job with lots of freedom and better pay than what I could have made in my current area as a clinical pharmacist (and only $2 less than Wags). I see a lot of residency-dissing around here and I think a lot of that is largely unfounded. I know very few residents who ended up doing something they could have done without a residency. I'm quite happy with where my amb care residency seems to be taking me. Of course ask me in a few months when I actually start working

I did a residency for my sanity. I have nothing but respect for retail pharmacists, but I could never do it. I would go crazy within a month. I needed to give myself the opportunity to work in other settings. The 4-day work week and 6 weeks PTO don't hurt either

ETA: I work long hours, but nowhere near the rumored 80 hours you hear around here

I actually did not intend to diss residencies. I am sorry if you felt like that but it truly was not my intention. I know for a fact that I want to do a residency myself because I don't enjoy retail what so ever. The purpose of this thread was just to start discussion based on what I heard from some of the residents in the area. Thus, I just wanted to know what the actual market for residents/clinical pharmacists is. Thank you for sharing your experiences

 

[Allure]

How many hours did you have to work while doing a residency? If it's about 60 hours/week, I think I can handle it. I know of someone who did retail part time while doing a residency to make extra money. Relocating might be an issue for me because there are a few specific areas that I want to live in.

 

[spacecowgirl]

janeno - sorry, I meant generally around SDN lately the attitude is anti-residency, not just you. You definitely didn't upset me I realize at a lot of schools, residencies are shoved in your face ad nauseum (not my experience) and that's annoying too. My point is that the generalizations you hear are just that - generalizations. Like I said, I can't really think of one person who did a residency and is now working in a job that wouldn't require one (granted my "study" has an n=15ish).

I work about 45-50 hours on average. Sometimes I work at home and work more hours, sometimes I work 40. I am never on call and I don't have to staff.

 

[two scoops]

I am mainly interested in the other benefits that doing a residency has to offer. It is my experience, by looking at job post, that the retail market does not offer very much vacation. It is all a balance between $ and time, but it seems to me that doing a residency will close the gap in $ while still allowing a fair amount of time off to enjoy that money in the mountains and on the lakes

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember Wag's offering 1 wk paid vacation after one year of service and it doesn't increase very fast after that.

I work for Cardinal Health right now and they start you off with 19 PTO days, eligible the day you start. Thats 3 weeks and 1 floating day; pretty nice if you ask me.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I'm starting this weekend (working weekends until I start FT in July); I'm excited!