Are Millennial MDs Turning Their Backs on FIRE?
Started by drusso
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
Millennials in general are probably the most FIRE-focused generation there is.
Gold chain likely a good investment
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
or a rolex watch - i have 10 🤣
dang, im trying to get one, but apparently its hard to break in to the list to procure one
I think it's just the usual short time horizon of youth.
I'm happy to see people buying things they enjoy and starting families rather than fixating 100% on exiting their career asap.
I see more hard core FIRE in tech and marketing nightmare jobs where it might be harder to find satisfaction than in healthcare.
Get a fake, no one can tell and under $200.
I would know (if I had a fake myself not someone else)
Or it’s not nice fixating on material possessions. Good to see youth saying they need experiences and live life fully
Counterfeit luxury goods fund terrorism
legit VCA is an investment, so my wife says...
Just go grey market. I am technically still "on the list" for the one I bought grey 18 months ago and still haven't gotten "the call". Unless you plan on buying numerous and need to develop a sales history, there is no point in going through an AD.
I have a sub date I’m happy to sell. I haven’t worn it very much.
Regarding FIRE, there is no reason you can't do both. At some point further contributions to investments barely move the needle and it makes sense to start enjoying life a bit more in the present.
For those who invested early, paid off any bad debts, saved for retirement, funded the 529s(if applicable), and have adequately projected their worst and most likely case scenarios, at some point "super saving" becomes pointless. Help your grown kids earlier rather than making them wait for an inheritance windfall, buy the watch, take more trips. You can't take it with you when you die -- do your kids really need a multimillion dollar inheritance?
This is a passion topic for me. Love discussing FIRE and finance, keep the thread going please.
For those who invested early, paid off any bad debts, saved for retirement, funded the 529s(if applicable), and have adequately projected their worst and most likely case scenarios, at some point "super saving" becomes pointless. Help your grown kids earlier rather than making them wait for an inheritance windfall, buy the watch, take more trips. You can't take it with you when you die -- do your kids really need a multimillion dollar inheritance?
This is a passion topic for me. Love discussing FIRE and finance, keep the thread going please.
I love this topic as well.
I think the main goal is really FIWO (Financial Independence Work Optional) instead of retiring early. Once work is optional you really get to decide where your efforts make the most sense and if you still enjoy practicing medicine and can do it all on your own terms I think that makes you a better doctor.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Agree that once you reach a certain point super saving makes no sense if your compounding rate is high enough.
If you don't want your kids to have a multi-million dollar inheritance there would be plenty of charities/foundations/altruistic endeavours that would benefit.
I'd prefer to not die with zero (having spent all on myself) so I can give my kids/grandkids + charitable organizations meaningful dollars.
Still got some years before my kids enter college. 529s will be fully funded, will probably need to float the rest of they do private or grad school. How do you plan to help your kids as they get older? I want to help them but also not make it too comfortable so they can develop their own financial discipline. We're thinking help with house down payment perhaps.
Income and investments have done better than projected, so we've begun to ramp up donations.
I know everyone situation is different but I’m curious what people in here would think safe number would be to start doing FIWO and cut down hrs and procedures @Baron S asking for a friend
$3 mil, 5 mil, 7mil, 10?
At 10 is my vote
I’m doing 38k per year in my kids 529 till they are 5 and then stopping- that should cover most things
One of my kids qualifies for trump account so I’ll do 5 k/year and roll over to Roth when they’re 18
Doing nothing else for them. They can pay for their house afterwards or whatever else they need
Once I hit 10mil in retirement/brokerage accounts, I’ll continue working but for likely 3 days/week doing what I’m doing
I want to buy a RV and explore/hike with my wife all 50 states in depth when all my kids are off to college in 20 years from now
I’m doing 38k per year in my kids 529 till they are 5 and then stopping- that should cover most things
One of my kids qualifies for trump account so I’ll do 5 k/year and roll over to Roth when they’re 18
Doing nothing else for them. They can pay for their house afterwards or whatever else they need
Once I hit 10mil in retirement/brokerage accounts, I’ll continue working but for likely 3 days/week doing what I’m doing
I want to buy a RV and explore/hike with my wife all 50 states in depth when all my kids are off to college in 20 years from now
If you have 5m in investible assets, as a disciplined investor without dependents or major vices, work is absolutely optional.
Absolutely agree. I want to hit 10 as a personal goal but a lot of that is just ego. Most people here probably overestimate their spending in retirement.
I hope this link works. This is one of my favorite calculators to help forecast all your investment account contributions in one place. Created by Anesthesiologist Jimmy Turner.
the real question is: what is that "certain point"? nobody knows and it is different for all.
does equity in your house count towards this magic number?
so you want to work 30 hours/week while they are in high school but back to 50/60 5-10 years later? thats hard for me to understand
equity in the house doesn't count for me since I won't be living off that number.
I do include it in my net worth calculation but am more concerned with my invested assets as that's what I will draw from in retirement.
will you be living in a 4 BR house in the burbs in retirement, tho?
i dont know the answer, but that equity will be liquidated at some point, and i cant imagine ill spend as much on the retirement house as i do with the current house. maybe half?
the real question is what will happen with the kids. i think there is a reasonable possibility that my kids will not be living on their own until their late 20s. this seems to be the unfortunate trend
You can’t do anything with 5m. Five’s a nightmare. Can’t retire. Not worth it to work. The poorest rich person in America.
Pretty ridiculous statement
You know you do have a say in whether your kids live with you until age 30. Don’t be an enabler
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Citation needed lol
thank you for finding this before I spent time looking for it! knew I recognized that quote, haha
Some is not a number. Soon is not a time.
Yes - everyone's "number" is going to be different but doesn't mean they're wrong.
For me it is ~$10m by age 50-55. I'm agnostic to the time in that range but the number is non-negotiable. Once I get there I'll cut back to ~3 days/week or take 5x+ the vacation I do now or find some charitable work to have something to stay cognitively/socially engaged.
My entire portfolio has averaged 22%/year over the past 10 years. If performance remains even remotely close (or just reverts to the historical SP500 mean) then in 3-4 years I will not need to worry about "super savings" beyond tax advantaged HSA/Roth IRA/Roth 401k contributions I'd make anyway. If my performance was in the 6-8% range over the prior decade then, yes, keep super saving for longer or retire in early/mid 60s would be the option.
That’s an impressive average over the last 10 yrs. You must be very heavy in tech and stocks
The older I get, the more I realize I'm actually SPENDING health points in order to SAVE money.
It's only worth it if I anticipate really NEEDING the money.
It's not worth it for pride or for some predetermined number.
It's only worth it if I anticipate really NEEDING the money.
It's not worth it for pride or for some predetermined number.
That depends on if you are willing to liquidate your home and find alternative living arrangements to fund your lifestyle. For the vast majority the answer to that is "no".
A more helpful metric than Net Worth is to project your retirement expenses and work backwards from there. Subtract any guaranteed income streams (pension, SS, etc), multiple by approx 25 (possible a bit less and that's what you need in liquid assets to mathematically be totally fine in a historically awful market.
That is over simplified and will probably overestimate how much you need. Spending slows as we age. Most 80 year olds aren't taking 10 trips/yr. They might not need that second home.
Touring colleges with my daughter now. $90K tuition (not including other expenses) is the new normal.
I’m not sure if they’ll want to do that much private education (depending on what they pick). One may go into finance or engineering for which it’d cost less - I can roll over to other kid depending. Not worth putting more into 529- may have to shell out more money depending on what they pick for careers
Every $190,000 contributed early in childhood can potentially become- 38x5
- ~$400k–$450k with 6% returns
- ~$460k–$525k with 7% returns
- ~$550k–$650k with 8% returns
If instead you put 90k/year into brokerage and let your kids at 65 get it/ they would have 8 million.
Not worth the money imo for 90k tuition
Are you only looking at private schools or something? My Alma mater (very good state school) is currently just under $14k a year for tuition.
Has to be talking about cost of attendance. I can’t find any tuitions over like $75k at the big name privates. The flagship state schools in every state I’ve ever lived/trained/worked are 20k or less.
There are some dental schools topping $100k tuition alone, however.
There are some dental schools topping $100k tuition alone, however.
529 projections are tricky. 35k can be rolled into a Roth IRA if you overrund them, but beyond that it's a bit tricky. Theres a 10% penalty for non qualified expenses and the gains are taxed as regular income. A custodial account can also be good to have.
Better off just letting them roll on, and use that money for grandkids or nieces/nephews. You can use it to pay for private elementary school even.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Agreed.
I'd say most docs are best off by trying to reasonably project 529 and contribute appropriately, roll leftover into Roth for them, transfer the rest, and any additional money you want to invest on their behalf be kept in a trust brokerage account and later gifted.
UTMA is also an option but I wouldn't want to risk that.
Yes, I have ratcheted down my 529 contributions and I am putting more into the kids UTMA’s. I don’t foresee private colleges I their future. I don’t see any need.
Do people actually use FIRE. If so, how?
I could retire today if I wanted to but I would have to live a more typical lifestyle. One trip a year, older/smaller home, get rid of a car, etc. I think lots of us can do the same in our early 40s but we don’t really know what to do with our time besides work or expensive hobbies/travel.
Took this picture from our pre-admission presentation yesterday at a well known NYC college:
