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Discussion in 'Pre-Podiatry Students' started by songaila, Mar 4, 2007.

  1. songaila

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    As much school and residency are important, areas of practice are also important.

    For those who want to practice in northeast, from what I heard, 60-80 start,5 year out,90G(with some hit 100g)

    Those that has solid 3 year residency and practice in rural towns can hit six digits.

    So I just put the data out there, if it's wrong, please correct me. I feel it's important if one decides to practice in these areas.

    Quite frankly, the salary in northeast is a joke with 7 years of training. That's just my opoinon.
     
  2. Poddoc

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    I was just thinking the same thing, especially since I live in the north east and would probably like to practice here in the future.
     
  3. jonwill

    jonwill Podiatrist
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    I don't believe those numbers. Where did you get them?

    I was talking with a residency director here in Iowa who said that since he has been there (10+ years), he has never had a resident sign for under six figures (some of which have gone back east). Even on something like Salary.com (usually not very accurate), the average pod in NJ makes a base of 160K. Upstate NY comes in around 150K and Boston is 220K (obviously higher cost of living). And many of these people aren't even surgical pods. In the words of a podiatrist that I recently spoke to, "If you graduate from a 3 year residency and sign on for anything less than six figures, you're a sucker." Obviously, if you're starting your own practice, you have no such guarantee.
     
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  4. OP
    OP
    songaila

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    I am not sure about salary.com The cost of living is not applied to the profession. A matter of fact, if you go to CA,NY, the demand of podiatrist is not a lot because of schools. I apologize for saying"northeast". I mean more of Tri-state area (NY,NJ,CT). The number is from the practicing podiatrists. Of course, there will always be higher and lower but it seems to be the norm.

    Is it because the place you do residency(shortage of pods), therefore the quote of salary. Or is it because of the high caliber of the 3 year residency.(DMU) If that's the "highest", then that's about right. And good for them.

    However, if one goes to a lower tier residency and in the northeast. Not everyone can go to high caliber residency and some of us will do. A more realistic range would be good. Some people do end up in philiadelphia and NY and they should know that before going in.

    The cost of living is acturally the opposite from what I have seen. The more rural you go, the more jobs. I am not trying to debate. Good for those people graduate from solid three year residency and the practice of their choices. However, how about the rest of the folks? I just want to hear the other side. I am not trying to debate and I hope I am very wrong cause I am from northeast(NY).
     
  5. SAFOOT

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    I agree all of the podiatrists I have shadowed have stated almost the same thing. If your making below 100k, especially after 7 years of schooling and surgical residency your not looking in the right place.
     
  6. Feli

    Feli ACFAS Member
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    Nobody is starving on 6 figures or even on 60k... that's the bottom line.

    Statements like this concern me about the true motivation for going into the program.^^

    If you just want to make money and lots of it, go do computers, engineering, pharmaceuticals, business, real estate, nursing, etc or borrow money to be an entrepreneur. All of those are fields where you get done with school a whole lot sooner and can make nearly as much money per year or even way more than average DPMs if you are good at what you do.

    However, if you want to have a career that is interesting and fulfilling, then ask yourself what really matters to you: Variety or repition? Traveling a lot or staying put for the most part? Lots of interpersonal contact or very little? Etc etc etc...
     
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  7. jonwill

    jonwill Podiatrist
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    It really has little to do with the "top tier" residency programs. I know of many pod residents from solid but unknown residencies that signed great contracts. It is all about "earning potential". Podiatry is procedural medicine which brings in a pretty penny. Therefore, multispecialty and ortho groups offer pods a lot because they will make the group a lot of money. I'm not even talking about the surgery. Think about all the small procedures done in clinic daily. They gross a ton. So obviously, if you're looking to open your own practice than, yea, location is an issue. If you open in a saturated area, your doomed. However, if you're hired on by a group, location is not as relevant because you will already have a patient base from that group. And you will be well payed.

    As I said before, those numbers that you are quoting are way low. Did some one give you those numbers or did you read them somewhere? I can promise you that if pods were only making that in the NE, there would be no pods there!

    After visiting various residency programs and having spoken with various residents and docs fresh out of residency, I have yet to see someone sign for less than six figure. In fact, the guy the hospital I am at just hired did his residency in NY and Des Moines is a city that has one of the pod schools.

    In my opinion, starting with 6 figures is completely realistic and the norm from what I've seen. After talking with a doctor in my home state who works in rural New Mexico (which is underserved), the starting salary is higher. In my home town in New Mexico, there are plenty of pods. Yet, groups continue to hire them on out of residency for 130-140k.

    It is simple economics. You are going to be making these groups a lot of money and you should expect to be well compensated.
     
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  8. densmore22

    densmore22 Member
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    :thumbup: Totally correct from what I've heard, I better be signing at least 100k, I mean, not to sound arrogant, but we deserve it, you'd be giving away your service if you signed for less than 100k IMO.

    I think Songalia is getting faulty info from somewhere. If you're looking on the web, I don't know how often those websites are updated. Also, you can't forget that the "averages" have the residency salary factored in, so that will bring it down as well as non-reporters of their income, so these bring averages down.

    Also, some places sign a base of 50-60k and then when you meet that for the year, which wouldn't be hard to obtain, you get bonuses for productivity, maybe that's what he's confusing with take home income, I might be wrong on the basis of this type of contract so those with more experience chime in!
     
  9. jonwill

    jonwill Podiatrist
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    Exactly, when pods sign on with a private practice group, they are a huge liability to the group because they have no patient base. So the other docs are basically paying the new doc out of their pocket. Therefore, the base is usually fairly low. However, after incentives and bonuses for productivity, they usually do very well their first year. A resident I met in Florida signed on with a group for 65K base but ended up making over 100k his first year out. AND REMEMBER, a lot of these "salary surveys" ONLY take into account BASE PAY. I've said it many times and I'll say it again, most of these salary stats are BOGUS!
     
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  10. dpmgrad

    dpmgrad Senior Member
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    The average starting salary that you had quoted for the Northeast (60,000 - 80,000) is for the BASE SALARY. Most of the offers in that range include a bonus structure. As jonwill stated, you may have a starting salary of 65,000 a year and with the bonus structure, one can make over 100,000.

    Salary is a complicated issue. Since many factors affect salary, one would see a variety of starting salary averages across the country. You have to look at the medical economics in the area. For example, medical insurance reimbursement in the Northeast are usually pretty bad. In Phildelphia and Southern New Jersey, the insurance carrier that reimburses the physician the most is Medicare. Hence, majority of the insurance in that area reimburses at the same level or less than Medicare. In many of the midwest states, majority of the insurance carriers reimburse more than what Medicare reimburses. Medical malpractice insurance rates also plays a role. Medical malpractice rates in Pennsylvania is so high that Pennsylvania set up a program to help reduce some of the medical malpractice rates to keep physicians from leaving Pennsylvania. If you are in an area where there is a lot of HMO, your starting salary may be lower than the national average. If you join an Orthopedic group or a multispecialty group, your starting salary may be higher. So, there are many factors affecting salaries. To be honest with you, the average starting BASE salary in the PA, NJ, DE, NY, CT, MA is somewhere between 60,000 - 85,000 with a BONUS structure. This is based on average starting base salaries that many of the new DPM practictioners that I know in PA, NJ, NY, DE, CT, MA. Of course, there will be people who start well above that and some well below that. If you are willing to relocate to areas of the country that offer great salaries, then you should not be worrying about salary.

    I also agree with Feli in regards to entering DPM or Medicine to make tons of money. If you really want to make a lot of money, you should consider the corporate world and law. My brother in law started at 275,000 a year as a corporate lawyer in NYC. You should enter into DPM or Medicine if you are genuinely interested in the Podiatry profession or any other Medical specialty. If you are genuinely intersted in the Podiatry profession, you will make an adequate salary that allows you to live comfortably.

    I don't think that you need to attend a top tier residency program to get a job that pays very well. I graduated from a 3 year surgical program that most of the people has never heard of. However, I am starting above 100,000 a year.
     
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  11. jonwill

    jonwill Podiatrist
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    Great post. And I don't know about everybody else but I definitely consider Philly the northeast! :laugh:
     
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  12. densmore22

    densmore22 Member
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    Very good and informative! :thumbup:
     
  13. iwilldlvr

    iwilldlvr not listening
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    How is the salary and need for more rural areas? I know it is obviously good in metropolitan areas, but I really don't hear much about the rural areas. It seems that in the rural areas in TX the compensation and available positions are comparable to that of the city. I'm just curious about other areas. Do any of you know?
     
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  14. defboy

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    Cum dowln 2 Arkansaw, weez doughn't ware shu's an' owr feete neede hell!p!
    I hear from dpms here that more are needed and you have many of the wealthiest people in the world in the nw area! :thumbup:
    on money, if you had an unlimited amount of money and would still want to do what you are pursuing:thumbup: , if you'd try something else-so it. medicine isn't the gravy train many think it is or as it used to be, but as stated 50-60k is good and 200k is awesome. it is a matter of priority and motive. bon soir.
     
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  15. iwilldlvr

    iwilldlvr not listening
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    Wanting adequate compensation does not mean one is motivated by money. Realistically, if money isn't a factor, then you are ignorant (for lack of better wording). Money must be a factor when you are incurring $150k+ in debt. Obviously, no one is going to get rich doing this, and you must enjoy it. You also need to pay the loans back and support yourself and a family, if you so choose. We all know you can't go into any area of medicine to get rich. That just doesn't happen anymore. On the other hand, we all want to make a good living. After all, we all deserve it after 8 years of school, 3 years of residency, possible added fellowship time, and all that debt. Do we all really need to put a disclaimer at the end of each post about salary ranges and areas of practice in order to avoid the all too common post that inevitably follows?
     
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  16. ldsrmdude

    ldsrmdude Back in the saddle again
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    I totally agree that wanting to make enough money to support a family and a decent lifestyle can be part of a great motivation. It obviously can't be all of the reason though. :)
     
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  17. Poddoc

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    :thumbup: well said.
     
  18. iwilldlvr

    iwilldlvr not listening
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    Of course not. Money can never be the sole motivation for anything. It's sad that society makes it such a necessary evil, though.

    It's funny. I knew a pre-med student who was is 40 and will begin DO school this fall. She is under the mistaken impression that she will make over $200k/year. It's also painly obvious that is the reason she is going into medicine. Some people will get the wake-up call too late.
     
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  19. Poddoc

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    I dont think Iwilldlvr said it was the only reason. Wanting to treat and help people as a Podiatrist is a big part of it. But the reality of the situation is we dont live in an ideal world where money doesnt matter.
     
  20. ldsrmdude

    ldsrmdude Back in the saddle again
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    :thumbup: You said it better than I could
     
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  21. phpodguy

    phpodguy Junior Member
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    Medicine is definitely not the cash cow it used to be/is perceived to be, but in most cases it provides compensation for a comfortable life/loan repayment if you don't try to live beyond your means. Don't expect to be living in a palatial manse or driving a different sports car everyday of the week unless you work your ass off all the time or luck into a primo gig. There was some study that said making 40k is the upper threshold for money equaling happiness anyway. Otherwise in the eternal words of Biggie: mo' money mo' problems. If you're at a job that you're proud of and can see yourself being happy to go to on an every day basis, then you should consider yourself lucky. That, and I know pods have enough earning potential to make the education worthwhile. Educational debt should be considered a good debt rather than a bad debt anyway unlike a lot of consumer or credit card debt because it's a lasting investment in your future (kinda like a house mortgage) and you usually get tax breaks etc. for stuff like that to lessen the blow.
     

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