Argosy Updates

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What compounds the issue is that many psychologists seem to balk a bit when it comes to paying dues for professional memberships.

True. However, it is a chicken or the egg problem. Given the static salaries over the last decade and increasing costs for education, life expenses, etc., many can't see the point in contributing. My guess is that FSPS early career grads and more likely to drop professional memberships due to other obligations.

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True, but the number of APA spots is still less than applicants. Given possible captive Argosy spots, I am curious to see how the numbers shake out.
Phase 1 stats are posted Match Statistics - 2019 - Phase I

You are correct there are more applicants than accredited positions (400+). Maybe I am reading the tables wrong but I find it fascinating that 327 accredited PhD programs sent 2050 applicants, while 94 accredited PsyD programs sent 1770 applicants. 1/3ish the number of PhD programs but only 300ish less the number of applicants. THAT is where the imbalance lies, IMO. I wonder how many of those PsyD programs have smaller cohorts similar to PhD programs and how many are responsible for the huge number of applicants.

Also here is the letter from ED denying receiver’s request for more money and ending Argosy ability to participate in federal financial aid program. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/sites/default/files/argosy-cio-denial-redacted.pdf
 
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I've been asking around and keep hearing bad stuff.
  • Apparently, students still haven't received their funds. No one knows where the money is and no sign of getting the money.
  • Mass exodus of faculty
  • Concerns that teach-outs will not be possible
  • Serious stress for students, food drives being put together
I remember when the Forest Institute in Springfield, MO closed down. There was no word of any such problems.

Argosy has been barred from receiving Federal Student Loan money as of yesterday. That is pretty much the death knell for this organization. Students report having trouble transferring credits to other institutions, and former students that owe money may or may not get some of all of it back, and may have serious trouble getting into other institutions. IMO, Argosy was and always has been a for-profit scam designed to saddle students with huge debt and investors with huge profits. The people that did this are criminals and they will probably get away with it. The people with degrees from Argosy are going to have a VERY difficult time getting jobs, sadly.
 
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I know some programs are receiving multiple emails from Argosy students inquiring about whether they consider transfer students outside of the traditional application process. Looks like some are starting to look into their options for next year.
I know my program has received messages from Argosy students but their requirements don't meet ours so I doubt that would work. Some credits may transfer, but they would definitely have to extend their time a a student. Plus, I am not thrilled with the idea of Argosy trained students practicing with a degree from my program
 
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You are correct there are more applicants than accredited positions (400+). Maybe I am reading the tables wrong but I find it fascinating that 327 accredited PhD programs sent 2050 applicants, while 94 accredited PsyD programs sent 1770 applicants. 1/3ish the number of PhD programs but only 300ish less the number of applicants. THAT is where the imbalance lies, IMO. I wonder how many of those PsyD programs have smaller cohorts similar to PhD programs and how many are responsible for the huge number of applicants.

Your thoughts are right. Argosy has some of the largest class sizes in the field. Hence transfers will be difficult.
 
Your thoughts are right. Argosy has some of the largest class sizes in the field. Hence transfers will be difficult.
Not anymore, actually. Their class sizes (and Alliant’s) have dropped from around 60 per year in 2008-2009 to around 30 per year now (larger drops at Argosy). This puts them around the same size as Denver. Interestingly, Nova probably has the largest class sizes at this point, with current cohorts in the mid-80s. Nova’s graduated over 700 (!) PsyDs and an additional 139 PhDs over the past decade, for a total of about 850 psychologists from that program alone. I know outstanding psychologists from Nova but wtf? at those class sizes.... that’s 10-fold what a traditional PhD program produces.
 
Not anymore, actually. Their class sizes (and Alliant’s) have dropped from around 60 per year in 2008-2009 to around 30 per year now (larger drops at Argosy). This puts them around the same size as Denver. Interestingly, Nova probably has the largest class sizes at this point, with current cohorts in the mid-80s. Nova’s graduated over 700 (!) PsyDs and an additional 139 PhDs over the past decade, for a total of about 850 psychologists from that program alone. I know outstanding psychologists from Nova but wtf? at those class sizes.... that’s 10-fold what a traditional PhD program produces.
I'd still say that a class of 30ish puts them in the 95+th percentile for cohort size. And with large classes sizes you can bank on chance to get great every once in a while.
 
I'd still say that a class of 30ish puts them in the 95+th percentile for cohort size. And with large classes sizes you can bank on chance to get great every once in a while.
Oh, definitely. Just pointing out that they are no longer the largest in the field.
 
Whelp: APA sent a letter to the DOE urging them to help out the 8800 Argosy students.
Where did you hear this? I didn’t see anything on APAs website about Argosy last night. Not a peep! Was this from a listserv you belong to, or from another source? I’m not doubting you, I would LOVE to read that letter and APAs reasons why DOE should help. Inquiring minds want to know!
 
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Where did you hear this? I didn’t see anything on APAs website about Argosy last night. Not a peep! Was this from a listserv you belong to, or from another source? I’m not doubting you, I would LOVE to read that letter and APAs reasons why DOE should help. Inquiring minds want to know!
750 First Street, NE Arthur C. Evans, Jr., PhD
Washington, DC 20002-4242 Chief Executive Officer and
(202) 336-6080 Executive Vice President
(202) 336-6069 (Fax)
[email protected]
March 1, 2019
The Honorable Betsy DeVos
Secretary of Education
Department of Education
400 Maryland Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20202 Dear Secretary DeVos:
On behalf of the American Psychological Association (APA), I write to express serious concerns for doctoral psychology students enrolled at eight APA-accredited programs at Argosy University institutions. Some of these students are months away from graduating and entering the workforce to provide mental health care, help address the opioid crisis, and treat our veterans, among other vital contributions to society. Argosy’s reported recklessness and alleged criminal actions showed little regard for their students. We believe that these students should not be penalized and their futures jeopardized because of Argosy University’s mismanagement.
We respectfully request that you immediately establish a Real Time Response Center within the Office of the Ombudsman, staffed by knowledgeable representatives from the Department of Education, who have the technical expertise and authority to respond to specific concerns raised by these students. In addition, we request that you provide more timely, substantive, and improved updates for all 8,800 students enrolled at Argosy University institutions on the Department’s Federal Student Aid website. APA staff have reviewed the Department of Education’s website resources, FAQ, and portal set up for students, and have called the feedback line at 1-844-651-0077. We do not believe that these resources are adequate to provide students in crisis with the roadmap or solutions they need. While the Department of Education is acting as a clearinghouse for complaints, little advice and counsel is being given the students except directing them to www.studentaid.ed.gov. Given the significant impact on students and the lack of transparency by Argosy, we believe the Department must do more to protect, serve, and guide these students now.
Students enrolled in APA-accredited programs at Argosy are preparing for careers as psychologists. Their commitment to this profession comes at a critical time as our nation faces growing shortages of behavioral health providers; and individuals, families, and communities face increasing challenges because of trauma, depression, suicide, and the devastating opioid epidemic. These doctoral psychology students are poised to enter the behavioral health workforce and contribute to meeting the urgent needs of our nation. It is critical for the
Department of Education to assist them in getting back on track with their education. APA respectfully asks that you use all means available to protect the doctoral students in psychology, and all Argosy University students, to help them back on a path of learning and degree completion. There is an urgent need for action as many of these students are facing financial hardship, unsure about their graduation, and potentially unable to secure employment. Some students have been left without access to their federal loan dollars, putting basic needs like food and rent out of reach. Other students’ transcripts are reportedly being withheld, limiting their ability to pursue alternative educational options. We ask that you act with urgency in this matter and put the needs of these students first.
APA is the leading scientific and professional organization representing psychology in the United States, with more than 118,400 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants, and students as its members.
Thank you for your attention to our request. For further information, please contact Karen Studwell, JD, APA’s Associate Executive Director for Government Relations, at [email protected].
Sincerely,
Arthur C. Evans, Jr., PhD
Chief Executive Officer
 
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Thank you @Psycycle for posting the letter here. So many thoughts on this, but I’ll hold off for now.
 
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It is truly a fascinating choice for the APA letter to make so many references to the opiate crisis. My guess is that this is because of Trump’s lip-service to opioid addiction and overdoses. In reality, almost no one graduating an APA accredited doctoral program has any meaningful experience with addiction treatment. Our neglect of addiction as a field is flatly appalling. So I find this a very interesting angle for the letter-writing committee to be using.
 
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I would imagine the amount of addictions treatment can vary substantially by program. My school had 2 labs who worked heavily in that area, for example. But I agree it was a sub-field that went neglected for quite a while, and allowed for inroads by various other providers (e.g., certified substance abuse counselors).

My guess why APA chose it to focus on--as you've said, probably primarily political.
 
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Where did you hear this? I didn’t see anything on APAs website about Argosy last night. Not a peep! Was this from a listserv you belong to, or from another source? I’m not doubting you, I would LOVE to read that letter and APAs reasons why DOE should help. Inquiring minds want to know!

No offense taken at all. One should always doubt unsubstantiated claims.
 
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I know my program has received messages from Argosy students but their requirements don't meet ours so I doubt that would work. Some credits may transfer, but they would definitely have to extend their time a a student. Plus, I am not thrilled with the idea of Argosy trained students practicing with a degree from my program

I imagine the modal response from programs will essentially be to apply through the traditional means in the fall and that their application will be considered then. Would punt the credits issue down the road if offer/acceptance looks like a real possibility.
 
I imagine the modal response from programs will essentially be to apply through the traditional means in the fall and that their application will be considered then. Would punt the credits issue down the road if offer/acceptance looks like a real possibility.
Yup. That's exactly what we've said to those inquiring and what everyone I know at other programs has also said.
 
No. But I wouldn't be surprised if Alliant jumps on board as well
Whatever happened to the Adler schools, speaking of the other "A" - I feel like I don't hear about them much anymore. I'm also wondering if these professional schools are having a harder time recruiting lately - maybe the news reports about <1% of applicants actually getting PSLF are having an impact? I'm sure we could come up with other hypotheses as well. The economy has been doing better, so maybe grad school is less of an automatic default right after undergrad. It does also seem like student debt is much more heavily discussed in general, and maybe people are starting to (rightfully) balk at the cost. It will be very interesting to see if other FSFP schools start to have cashflow issues, debt-fueled corporate mergers being what they are and all.
 
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Whatever happened to the Adler schools, speaking of the other "A" - I feel like I don't hear about them much anymore. I'm also wondering if these professional schools are having a harder time recruiting lately - maybe the news reports about <1% of applicants actually getting PSLF are having an impact? I'm sure we could come up with other hypotheses as well. The economy has been doing better, so maybe grad school is less of an automatic default right after undergrad. It does also seem like student debt is much more heavily discussed in general, and maybe people are starting to (rightfully) balk at the cost. It will be very interesting to see if other FSFP schools start to have cashflow issues, debt-fueled corporate mergers being what they are and all.
Isn't there only one Adler school? I haven't heard great things about them. One of my professors used to say Adler didn't emphasize the science of psychology. He also used to say APA was useless. I'm beginning to somewhat agree with him.....
 
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Isn't there only one Adler school? I haven't heard great things about them. One of my professors used to say Adler didn't emphasize the science of psychology. He also used to say APA was useless. I'm beginning to somewhat agree with him.....
I think they have two physical and an online presence - maybe I just remember hearing about them a few years ago when they were expanding.
 
quote
The receiver is now "actively" pursuing talks with "15 different potential purchasers" for Dream Center sites, including six potential buyers for Argosy, Whitmer wrote.
 
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1) who’s going to buy a university that can’t access federal financial aid??
2) who’s going to buy a university that will likely lose regional accreditation?
3) why wasn’t this **** examined prior to the purchase from EMDC??
4) where are the dead or soon-to-be-dead bodies buried?
5) I thought the receiver was an attorney, so why does the attorney need an attorney to file this info??
6) is the student debt bubble finally about to burst in the next 1-2 years, after closing other schools????
 
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1) who’s going to buy a university that can’t access federal financial aid??
2) who’s going to buy a university that will likely lose regional accreditation?
3) why wasn’t this **** examined prior to the purchase from EMDC??
4) where are the dead or soon-to-be-dead bodies buried?
5) I thought the receiver was an attorney, so why does the attorney need an attorney to file this info??
6) is the student debt bubble finally about to burst in the next 1-2 years, after closing other schools????
1 - Hard to imagine anyone is dumb enough to go for this sale, especially this late in the economic cycle.
2 - No one.
3 - Very good question, but possibly Dream Center did not recognize how many of Argosy's problems would not be resolved by flipping the switch into being non-profit.
4 - This will be interesting to find out.
5 - I presume because he has his hands full of nightmare situations day and night right now.
6 - Let's hope so! The souring of the for-profit education sector is the whole reason Argosy was for sale in the first place. When the economy turns, it usually starts at the fringes and works its way in. My guess is that Chicago School could be having similar problems soon. Alliant is shady, but from the outside appears to be marginally better-run (and has been in the biz much longer), so it might hold or at least fare better for longer.
 
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1) who’s going to buy a university that can’t access federal financial aid??
2) who’s going to buy a university that will likely lose regional accreditation?
3) why wasn’t this **** examined prior to the purchase from EMDC??
4) where are the dead or soon-to-be-dead bodies buried?
5) I thought the receiver was an attorney, so why does the attorney need an attorney to file this info??
6) is the student debt bubble finally about to burst in the next 1-2 years, after closing other schools????


EDMC was smart and Dream center got stuck holding the hot potato. After the sale, the dept of Ed required heightened cash monitoring. Dream center did not have the cash on hand. Knowing that, someone in management had the forms to the Dept of Ed changed, saying the students did get paid and got 8 million for them and their buddies. If the culprits were smart, they deleted/shredded all the altered records and quit with a nice bonus in hand before the ship started to sink and anyone found out that the students never got their cash.

The Argosy name might go for cheap as it has little value, but physical campus buildings and infastructure can be sold to competitors looking to expand or other educational companies.

The student debt bubble is not close to bursting and won't for years. It won't really burst until millennials get old and can no longer pay the debts that they took out, income based repayment hits hard and people can't afford to pay the tax bill on it , or there is a major recession/depression, job loss and giant number of defaults. Otherwise it is still "good paper" in the eyes of people who matter. Car loans may burst first.
 
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EDMC was smart and Dream center got stuck holding the hot potato. After the sale, the dept of Ed required heightened cash monitoring. Dream center did not have the cash on hand. Knowing that, someone in management had the forms to the Dept of Ed changed, saying the students did get paid and got 8 million for them and their buddies. If the culprits were smart, they deleted/shredded all the altered records and quit with a nice bonus in hand before the ship started to sink and anyone found out that the students never got their cash.

The Argosy name might go for cheap as it has little value, but physical campus buildings and infastructure can be sold to competitors looking to expand or other educational companies.

The student debt bubble is not close to bursting and won't for years. It won't really burst until millennials get old and can no longer pay the debts that they took out, income based repayment hits hard and people can't afford to pay the tax bill on it , or there is a major recession/depression, job loss and giant number of defaults. Otherwise it is still "good paper" in the eyes of people who matter. Car loans may burst first.
I don't disagree that car loans are likely busting first. But the Brookings Institution's research indicates that up to 40% of student loans may be in default within the next few years, and the headlines about this are likely having some chilling effect on potential grad students. My impression was that Argosy rents a lot of their campus spaces, but I could be wrong.

In other, not surprising news, I found this article that may explain how this went belly-up so fast. Looks like Dream Center bought the schools with an undisclosed amount of PE money: In EDMC sale, ties to for-profit education to face scrutiny
 
I don't disagree that car loans are likely busting first. But the Brookings Institution's research indicates that up to 40% of student loans may be in default within the next few years, and the headlines about this are likely having some chilling effect on potential grad students. .

Defaults are largely due to for-profit undergrads and community college programs. Not grad school. We are a tiny proportion of the loans. Brookings may be right. However, the government will likely let many defer payment and use income based payments to limp along and be debtors for life as these loans can't be discharged. This may kick the can down the road for years.
 
Defaults are largely due to for-profit undergrads and community college programs. Not grad school. We are a tiny proportion of the loans. Brookings may be right. However, the government will likely let many defer payment and use income based payments to limp along and be debtors for life as these loans can't be discharged. This may kick the can down the road for years.
Grad borrowers may be in the minority if we look at number of borrowers, but the share of dollars they account for is very disproportionate. Quote from linked article: "Borrowers with balances above $100,000, who make-up only 5.5 percent of all borrowers, owe a third of all student loan debt." Headwinds for graduate student borrowers: Rising balances and slowing repayment rates
You're right that a lot of the borrowers who will likely default are undergrads (unlikely to be community colleges, as their tuition is extremely low, but perhaps you meant 2-year trade schools), but the headline-grabbing dollar amounts will likely be coming from defaulting grad students. The government won't be able to defer this issue forever, it's already becoming a red-hot election issue. Not white-hot yet, but possibly approaching that in the next few years. The new rules on for-profits imposed by the Obama administration are also cutting hard into the bottom-line for a lot of for-profits (hence the attempts by some of these businesses to become "nonprofit" via sales to existing nonprofits, such as the Dream Center). The for-profit college industry is also not immune from the corporate debt bubble that could pop at pretty much any moment, especially since some of the M&A activity is debt funded.
 
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Grad borrowers may be in the minority if we look at number of borrowers, but the share of dollars they account for is very disproportionate. Quote from linked article: "Borrowers with balances above $100,000, who make-up only 5.5 percent of all borrowers, owe a third of all student loan debt." Headwinds for graduate student borrowers: Rising balances and slowing repayment rates
You're right that a lot of the borrowers who will likely default are undergrads (unlikely to be community colleges, as their tuition is extremely low, but perhaps you meant 2-year trade schools), but the headline-grabbing dollar amounts will likely be coming from defaulting grad students. The government won't be able to defer this issue forever, it's already becoming a red-hot election issue. Not white-hot yet, but possibly approaching that in the next few years. The new rules on for-profits imposed by the Obama administration are also cutting hard into the bottom-line for a lot of for-profits (hence the attempts by some of these businesses to become "nonprofit" via sales to existing nonprofits, such as the Dream Center). The for-profit college industry is also not immune from the corporate debt bubble that could pop at pretty much any moment, especially since some of the M&A activity is debt funded.

A crisis in student loans? How changes in the characteristics of borrowers and in the institutions they attended contributed to rising loan defaults

For-profits have a large lead in defaults, but dropouts from 2 yr programs are also higher in the undergrad arena.

Student loan bubble may not burst, but the for-profit school bubble likely will soon.
 
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A crisis in student loans? How changes in the characteristics of borrowers and in the institutions they attended contributed to rising loan defaults

For-profits have a large lead in defaults, but dropouts from 2 yr programs are also higher in the undergrad arena.

Student loan bubble may not burst, but the for-profit school bubble likely will soon.
This is true, though newer data shows that community college students would have lower default rates than four-year public school students if not for the fact that so many of them transfer to for-profits after doing some community college. The looming student loan default crisis is worse than we thought
Ultimately, I agree with your point though that it is the for-profit sector that will likely burst, rather than student loans writ large.
 
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It seems that EDMC sale of Argosy to the Dream Center was still in process and now the Federal Government is not allowing Argosy to be a nonprofit program under the Dream Center. Argosy closed most of their sites in 2017 as part of the Dream Center purchase and EDMC apparently lied on financial information to Dream Center. I believe the Dream Center became the parent company whereas before Goldman Sachs was the majority owner of EDMC.

My guess is APA will need to step in and set up teach out transfers for the remaining Argosy PsyD students similar to how APA stepped in for Forest Institute several years ago when they were forced to close due to similar circumstances of missing money. My guess is this is going to be a domino effect with other FS professional schools being closed. Many of the Forest students opted to get their terminal MS degree and work as LPC to obtain some loan forgiveness.

The question about pay for faculty at Argosy earlier in the thread. Most of the faculty were receiving help to pay back their student loans as Argosy met guidelines for educator loan forgiveness. Many were working private practice and teaching three to four courses per semester.

For many of the closed Argosy campuses most faculty signed on with Fielding, Walden, or The Chicago Professional School since these programs are now located in locations where Argosy campuses closed.
 
It seems that EDMC sale of Argosy to the Dream Center was still in process and now the Federal Government is not allowing Argosy to be a nonprofit program under the Dream Center. Argosy closed most of their sites in 2017 as part of the Dream Center purchase and EDMC apparently lied on financial information to Dream Center. I believe the Dream Center became the parent company whereas before Goldman Sachs was the majority owner of EDMC.

My guess is APA will need to step in and set up teach out transfers for the remaining Argosy PsyD students similar to how APA stepped in for Forest Institute several years ago when they were forced to close due to similar circumstances of missing money. My guess is this is going to be a domino effect with other FS professional schools being closed. Many of the Forest students opted to get their terminal MS degree and work as LPC to obtain some loan forgiveness.

The question about pay for faculty at Argosy earlier in the thread. Most of the faculty were receiving help to pay back their student loans as Argosy met guidelines for educator loan forgiveness. Many were working private practice and teaching three to four courses per semester.

For many of the closed Argosy campuses most faculty signed on with Fielding, Walden, or The Chicago Professional School since these programs are now located in locations where Argosy campuses closed.

How do you know where faculty started new jobs?
 
750 First Street, NE Arthur C. Evans, Jr., PhD
Washington, DC 20002-4242 Chief Executive Officer and
(202) 336-6080 Executive Vice President
(202) 336-6069 (Fax)
[email protected]
March 1, 2019
The Honorable Betsy DeVos
Secretary of Education
Department of Education
400 Maryland Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20202 Dear Secretary DeVos:
On behalf of the American Psychological Association (APA), I write to express serious concerns for doctoral psychology students enrolled at eight APA-accredited programs at Argosy University institutions. Some of these students are months away from graduating and entering the workforce to provide mental health care, help address the opioid crisis, and treat our veterans, among other vital contributions to society. Argosy’s reported recklessness and alleged criminal actions showed little regard for their students. We believe that these students should not be penalized and their futures jeopardized because of Argosy University’s mismanagement.
We respectfully request that you immediately establish a Real Time Response Center within the Office of the Ombudsman, staffed by knowledgeable representatives from the Department of Education, who have the technical expertise and authority to respond to specific concerns raised by these students. In addition, we request that you provide more timely, substantive, and improved updates for all 8,800 students enrolled at Argosy University institutions on the Department’s Federal Student Aid website. APA staff have reviewed the Department of Education’s website resources, FAQ, and portal set up for students, and have called the feedback line at 1-844-651-0077. We do not believe that these resources are adequate to provide students in crisis with the roadmap or solutions they need. While the Department of Education is acting as a clearinghouse for complaints, little advice and counsel is being given the students except directing them to www.studentaid.ed.gov. Given the significant impact on students and the lack of transparency by Argosy, we believe the Department must do more to protect, serve, and guide these students now.
Students enrolled in APA-accredited programs at Argosy are preparing for careers as psychologists. Their commitment to this profession comes at a critical time as our nation faces growing shortages of behavioral health providers; and individuals, families, and communities face increasing challenges because of trauma, depression, suicide, and the devastating opioid epidemic. These doctoral psychology students are poised to enter the behavioral health workforce and contribute to meeting the urgent needs of our nation. It is critical for the
Department of Education to assist them in getting back on track with their education. APA respectfully asks that you use all means available to protect the doctoral students in psychology, and all Argosy University students, to help them back on a path of learning and degree completion. There is an urgent need for action as many of these students are facing financial hardship, unsure about their graduation, and potentially unable to secure employment. Some students have been left without access to their federal loan dollars, putting basic needs like food and rent out of reach. Other students’ transcripts are reportedly being withheld, limiting their ability to pursue alternative educational options. We ask that you act with urgency in this matter and put the needs of these students first.
APA is the leading scientific and professional organization representing psychology in the United States, with more than 118,400 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants, and students as its members.
Thank you for your attention to our request. For further information, please contact Karen Studwell, JD, APA’s Associate Executive Director for Government Relations, at [email protected].
Sincerely,
Arthur C. Evans, Jr., PhD
Chief Executive Officer
Do they mean 8800 Argosy students total or students in their psyd programs? That's insane considering he said APA has little more than 100,000 members
 
I couldn’t stop laughing after I read “The Honorable Betsy DeVos”
 
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D17 listserv posted some interesting encouragement (e.g., bad in my opinion) from the president of the division. I'm not sure that trying to transfer credits from programs with known bad reputations should be a way to waive training from better programs... but maybe that's just me?

I am not sure that we can do much for the affected students, except on a very individualized basis. Most of them are officially clinical psychology students, but the fact that many of them are being taught by counseling psychologists, with a counseling psychology mind set, may mean that some small number of them are suitable for our doctoral programs (if we can figure out how to transfer them in with all of the complicated residency requirements). You may have students who are local contacting you, so this is just a heads up. APA can give you guidance if needed.


None of the APA actions outlined in the e-mail are about steps needed to take to ensure this doesn't happen again...
 
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D17 listserv posted some interesting encouragement (e.g., bad in my opinion) from the president of the division. I'm not sure that trying to transfer credits from programs with known bad reputations should be a way to waive training from better programs... but maybe that's just me?




None of the APA actions outlined in the e-mail are about steps needed to take to ensure this doesn't happen again...

Uh...I have never met a "counseling psychology mindset," aside from some occasional hyper-focus on multiculture activism/social justice warrior stuff that may not sit right with me personally, but otherwise wouldn't inform me on their ability to practice as health service psychologist in pretty much any/all settings. What is this guy talking about?
 
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word on the street is that campuses are going to start shuttering doors any day now, within a week or two. Serious badness for students who just need a few more months to finish internship.
 
A current student said he just received an email Argosy is shutting down Friday. Wow.

I know this forum is anti diploma mills and I am too, but can you imagine being a psyD student there right now and receiving that email?
 
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