Argosy Updates

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members don't see this ad.
LadyHalcyon said:
A current student said he just received an email Argosy is shutting down Friday. Wow.

I know this forum is anti diploma mills and I am too, but can you imagine being a psyD student there right now and receiving that email?
Click to expand...

Whoa that’s some BS. Any word on what will happen to students currently at internship or accepted to internship?
 
MAClinician said:
Argosy University may close campuses across the country as soon as Friday

And the court scheduled a hearing to determine if the current receiver is doing his job. Seems he is not following court requirements? Sucks for students on internship currently or who matched for next year. Messy.
Click to expand...

So now it will be unclear if he has the authority to close the schools on Friday, though it appears that is still the plan. What a mess....

I have literally no idea what happens now. Even if folks have completed all degree requirements and are currently on internship, can they technically graduate without any school left to confer a degree at the end of internship? At a minimum, I would hope the DOE would step in there...though who knows how long it will take to sort out records. I have no idea how this situation can even conceivably be fixed given current circumstances, barring federal bailout to do a teach-out. No one is going to buy the place except as essentially scrap metal. The cohorts are too big for other schools to absorb as transfers and I imagine very few university programs would even consider transferring Argosy credits. Most are hesitant to transfer in anything.

As glad as I am to see this place gone and as much as I think the students bear some level of responsibility for their decisions to attend these types of place...this is pretty painful to watch and I feel awful for those involved.
 
LadyHalcyon said:
A current student said he just received an email Argosy is shutting down Friday. Wow.

I know this forum is anti diploma mills and I am too, but can you imagine being a psyD student there right now and receiving that email?
Click to expand...

Yep, word is spreading that Argosy will be no more in a few days.
 
APPIC survey should be really interesting next year - many sites will be clamoring for applicants I suspect because this will likely result in changes in application rate.

Ironically, those who opted to 'stay local' and attend Argosy may be faced with the real prospect of moving to attend a program so that their time/debt isnt for nothing (a choice which, if made earlier, would have prevented their entire situation) or withdrawing from HSP training.
 
erg923 said:
Uh...I have never met a "counseling psychology mindset," aside from some occasional hyper-focus on multiculture activism/social justice warrior stuff that may not sit right with me personally, but otherwise wouldn't inform me on their ability to practice as health service psychologist in pretty much any/all settings. What is this guy talking about?
Click to expand...
Got me - but I'm not sure there is a functional (or even theoretical to a large degree) difference between clinical/counseling, so this may be a argument I'm simply not invested in making. The differences are... rudimentary at best (e.g., I took voc courses and clinical didn't is about the only one which stands up under any sort of actual scrutiny imho). I think that Ruth (and many counseling psych leadership) view this differently in public, however. Ironically, my conversations in private with some of those same individuals align more closely with my views.
 
Justanothergrad said:
D17 listserv posted some interesting encouragement (e.g., bad in my opinion) from the president of the division. I'm not sure that trying to transfer credits from programs with known bad reputations should be a way to waive training from better programs... but maybe that's just me?




None of the APA actions outlined in the e-mail are about steps needed to take to ensure this doesn't happen again...
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking as well. Why would better programs even want to accept Argosy students, let alone waive training through credit transfer? These students were not originally competitive for these better programs, and now the better programs may have to unteach the Argosy students bad habits, ideas, etc.
 
erg923 said:
Uh...I have never met a "counseling psychology mindset," aside from some occasional hyper-focus on multiculture activism/social justice warrior stuff that may not sit right with me personally, but otherwise wouldn't inform me on their ability to practice as health service psychologist in pretty much any/all settings. What is this guy talking about?
Click to expand...
More strengths-based, integration of systems, less pathologizing, a focus on functioning in an adaptive way vs a focus on identifying and addressing deficits.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Justanothergrad said:
Got me - but I'm not sure there is a functional (or even theoretical to a large degree) difference between clinical/counseling, so this may be a argument I'm simply not invested in making. The differences are... rudimentary at best (e.g., I took voc courses and clinical didn't is about the only one which stands up under any sort of actual scrutiny imho). I think that Ruth (and many counseling psych leadership) view this differently in public, however. Ironically, my conversations in private with some of those same individuals align more closely with my views.
Click to expand...
This is exactly my experience. I am technically a counseling psychologist, but all but one of my prof's was a clinical psychologist. In fact, the only counseling psychologist I had any real interaction with was the one who taught vocational theory and assessment. All the research was clinically oriented, my advisor is a clinical psychologist, and all my supervisors were clinical. I worked with kids, forensics, and SMI. I guess some counseling programs might really just focus on high-functioning adults, but I have yet to meet someone who actually had that experience in grad school. My alma mater could be a bit of a one-off, counseling-in-name-only program I suppose, but from what I can tell, the additional vocational stuff in counseling is the only actual difference.
 
Mvp89 said:
More strengths-based, integration of systems, less pathologizing, a focus on functioning in an adaptive way vs a focus on identifying and addressing deficits.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure any of that really jives though, not objectively. For instance, Rick Snyder was housed in the clinical program at KU and his partnerships/mentorships spurred both continued work on hope (as a major strength-based approach/framework) in both clinical and counseling to this day. In fact, I was conversing about a clinical/counseling crossover on this very topic yesterday with several folks in clinical and their emphasis on hope as a consistent research interest of theirs. Heck, on another project the people pushing for the inclusion of resiliency measures are both clinical. Similarly, I'm not sure what less pathologizing means effectively. We diagnosis at the same rate and in the same way, right?

I mean, that all sounds good- but I'm not sure effectively that it promotes a distinct training model.
 
With the blurring of the lines and interdisciplinary exchange between counseling and clinical psych, I wonder about the internship sites that are traditionally associated with counseling, especially university counseling centers. Factoring in the acuity of mental health problems of college students these days, are those university counseling centers facing that same permeability and flexibility of the field overall? E.g., It seems like they would traditionally prefer counseling PhD trainees and would provide training towards careers in that same setting or similar traditional counseling ones. Is the blurring between clinical and counseling making them more amenable to clinical psych trainees and being geared towards more general or even specialized (health psych in particular) clinical training than just traditional counseling? I know the university counseling center at my undergrad alma mater lists a strong health psych focus in the APPIC profile for their internship, so I just wonder what this really means in terms of training, career options, etc.
 
Subject: MATCH NEWS: Message from the APPIC Board regarding Argosy University


APPIC MATCH NEWS
---

From: Mariella M. Self, Ph.D., ABPP - [email protected]



The APPIC Board of Directors would like to acknowledge our awareness of the recent and ongoing developments concerning Argosy University, which has entered into receivership, and the associated uncertainty that has greatly affected some students, internship training directors, and Directors of Clinical Training.


We appreciate that this situation is very unsettling and involves considerable stress and uncertainty for Argosy students and faculty. APPIC is closely monitoring this rapidly-evolving situation and is working with other organizations to provide assistance and support to those who have been affected.


While it is difficult to provide answers to specific questions without knowing the future of Argosy University and its individual campuses, and while recommendations may change when more information is available, APPIC would like to provide the following general guidance at present:


1. All Argosy students who are currently on internship should continue to move forward toward the successful completion of their internship year.


2. All Argosy students who recently matched in Phase I, and those who will match in Phase II or get placed via the APPIC Post-Match Vacancy Service, should continue to move forward with plans for attending and successfully completing their internships.


3. Internship programs who currently have Argosy students on site, or those who have or will soon be matched to Argosy students, should prepare for those students to attend their internships as planned.


4. Argosy students who experience a closure of their doctoral program (and a resulting period of uncertainty while a new program is found), a "teach out" situation, a change to a different graduate program, or similar situation are not expected to have their internship placements affected by such a change.


5. APPIC understands that there will be hardships and unanticipated circumstances that are created by the current situation, and will consider alternative guidance or exceptions to the above on a case-by-case basis, or as needed as the situation evolves.


Should any individual affected by these difficult circumstances wish to consult about their specific situation pertaining to the internship Match, please contact Dr. Greg Keilin, APPIC Match Coordinator, at [email protected]. Concerned parties or individuals with information about relevant developments are also welcome to contact me at [email protected].


Mariella



Mariella M. Self, Ph.D., ABPP
Chair, APPIC Board of Directors
 
Justanothergrad said:
D17 listserv posted some interesting encouragement (e.g., bad in my opinion) from the president of the division. I'm not sure that trying to transfer credits from programs with known bad reputations should be a way to waive training from better programs... but maybe that's just me?

None of the APA actions outlined in the e-mail are about steps needed to take to ensure this doesn't happen again...
Click to expand...

I haven’t seen the Div17 email. “A small number” suitable meaning automatic acceptance to counseling psychology Ph.D. Programs or a small number may be a fit (not guaranteed) if they apply like the rest of applicants and have solid research interests, etc. (i.e. are truly competitive for a Ph.D. program)?

Big distinction there.
 
Pardon my French but what a ****-show.
 
The guy from Argosy I know who I have been speaking to said he is seriously considering this option.
StellaB said:
For a lot of Argosy students who are already waist deep in debt, the opportunity to have their debt canceled and just pursue another path is probably a blessing, even if they don't realize it as such right now.
Click to expand...
 
On the student and staff portal this is the message:

IMPORTANT INFORMATION:
Argosy University campuses are at risk of closure this Friday, March 8, 2019. Please check your email for details and instructions and come to an information fair about transfer partners.


The Minnesota and Tampa Bay Campuses are being reported as closing on Friday from local news stations. A large number of faculty were terminated last week and some were teaching classes when they were asked to leave class as they were terminated.
 
Last edited:
And this program has been producing psychologists for how many years? I can't even imagine what I would feel like if this were to happen in my program. There you are, sitting in a research methods class, and all of sudden someone comes in and fires your professor.....
OneNeuroDoctor said:
On the student and staff portal this is the message:

IMPORTANT INFORMATION:
Argosy University campuses are at risk of closure this Friday, March 8, 2019. Please check your email for details and instructions and come to an information fair about transfer partners.


The Minnesota and Tampa Bay Campuses are being reported as closing on Friday from local news stations. A large number of faculty were terminated last week and some were teaching classes when they were asked to leave class as they were terminated.
Click to expand...
 
I work with someone with a degree from Argosy that hadn’t heard about this. I wonder how this will impact their job prospects in the future. Anyone know any Forest Institute grads that faced this in recent years?

I’ve heard Chicago school has committed to take a lot (all???) near graduates.
 
LadyHalcyon said:
And this program has been producing psychologists for how many years? I can't even imagine what I would feel like if this were to happen in my program. There you are, sitting in a research methods class, and all of sudden someone comes in and fires your professor.....
Click to expand...

Argosy had many programs besides doctoral clinical psychology program, but my guess with 10 campuses the number of students affected in the MA and PsyD Clinical Psychology Programs would approach 3000 to 4000 students as they often had cohort sizes above 100 per class. It will be difficult for all of these students to transfer to a partner program as Argosy had mostly Working Adult students who may not be able to move or transfer to a partner program due to family and job obligations. When Forest Institute closed in 2014 they most likely only had 500 to 1000 MA or PsyD students making it much easier for transfer or teach out of students.

It is a sad day for many of us Argosy Alumni. My guess is there will be lawsuits that follow from faculty and students. I was fortunate to graduate back in 2013 and I don't know how these current students will be able to move forward and to just transfer, especially for students in their second, third, or fourth year. I suspect the first year students may reapply to other programs next year rather than transfer to one of the partner programs. Forest Students were transferred to the Wright Institute or Regent's University and I believes these are similar FSPS PSYD programs.
 
Last edited:
StellaB said:
For a lot of Argosy students who are already waist deep in debt, the opportunity to have their debt canceled and just pursue another path is probably a blessing, even if they don't realize it as such right now.
Click to expand...

Truth. I'm not sure what I would do in this situation, but I'd likely cut my losses and move onto something else.

Argosy never had our field's best interests at heart, and were always out for the money IMHO. Many amazing clinicians came from these schools, however, and I hope that current students at the very least get loans forgiven.

What impact will this have on internship application numbers, overall psychologist numbers, etc.? I imagine that this will be a good thing for our field, at the end of the day.
 
Rivi said:
Truth. I'm not sure what I would do in this situation, but I'd likely cut my losses and move onto something else.

Argosy never had our field's best interests at heart, and were always out for the money IMHO. Many amazing clinicians came from these schools, however, and I hope that current students at the very least get loans forgiven.

What impact will this have on internship application numbers, overall psychologist numbers, etc.? I imagine that this will be a good thing for our field, at the end of the day.
Click to expand...

With all of the unfilled doctoral level psychologists positions going unfilled every year, especially in underserved rural areas, having reduced psychologists will most likely result in many of these unfilled positions being downgraded to LCSW or LPC level positions. Additionally with changes in some states such as Oklahoma and Texas this is already happening and now Texas is allowing LPA to have Independent Practice without supervision and Oklahoma has Independent practice for MS degree behavioral health specialist. Kansas has independent licensure for Licensed Clinical Psychotherapist, so most of the positions that used to require Psychologists licensure are now filled by MS level practitioners.
 
GradStudent2020 said:
I’ve heard Chicago school has committed to take a lot (all???) near graduates.
Click to expand...
This wouldn't surprise me at all. That is a school whose reputation is about on par with Argosy, and I'm sure they would gladly accept the students' money.
 
LadyHalcyon said:
Did you see the post in the other Argosy forum, they are being told to go on internship
Click to expand...
Yes, thank you. Got the email from a list serve too. Hope it works out for people in the way they want.
 
Curious if those other schools that closed (Forest) closed in the middle of the semester?? There was a small local college in my state that knew it could not stay open for financial reasons. However, the administration planned for it to close following the spring commencement and worked for a year to ensure students had schools to continue in (even if students weren’t happy). One would think ED would require school to finish semester to ease the disruption on students??!?
 
StellaB said:
This is exactly my experience. I am technically a counseling psychologist, but all but one of my prof's was a clinical psychologist. In fact, the only counseling psychologist I had any real interaction with was the one who taught vocational theory and assessment. All the research was clinically oriented, my advisor is a clinical psychologist, and all my supervisors were clinical. I worked with kids, forensics, and SMI. I guess some counseling programs might really just focus on high-functioning adults, but I have yet to meet someone who actually had that experience in grad school. My alma mater could be a bit of a one-off, counseling-in-name-only program I suppose, but from what I can tell, the additional vocational stuff in counseling is the only actual difference.
Click to expand...
From what I have seen with some experience in both worlds, the only notable substantive difference is the focus on vocational aspects- and in the counseling program I am most familiar with, also a focus (i.e., class on) psychosocial+vocational factors related to various types of physical and sensory differences (e.g., acquired vs since-birth vision/hearing loss/absence, living with various types of chronic illness). Otherwise programs seem very similar.
 
super.ego said:
Unsure if this has already been shared: A College Chain Crumbles, and Millions in Student Loan Cash Disappears
Click to expand...
Interesting article and comments. I don't know that I think it's an opening of the floodgates but this comment was thought-provoking:

Private equity will not "save" for profit schools because there is no money to be made teaching poor kids unless the government pours its money into those programs and schools. I know that. The education department knows that. Betsy DeVos know that. This failure is predictable and maybe even planned. DeVos can now demand, for the sake of the students, that the coffers be opened wide for tax dollars to flow unhindered into private hands.....and those equity holders will make a fortune from our tax dollars. It worked with the prison system, why not schools?
 
Is anyone else on the APA Div 50 listserv? An email just came through from an Argosy student who was apparently able to transfer out (to Alliant...) in December. It's a heartfelt email but yikes it is written so terribly that I am appalled. I would have been embarrassed to get an email with that many errors from a freshman student in an Intro class. Maybe it was written in a rush, but one should proofread an email being sent to an entire listserv!
 
I'm not on Div. 50 but did get a similarly poorly written, albeit heartfelt, email riddled with typos and misspellings on another Div. listserv -- This from a student still unsure of what their next step will be. I reacted similarly to seeing such a poorly written email sent to an entire listserv, especially from someone who may be turning to some of these folks for dire help (e.g., transferring programs) in the near future.
 
I would like to submit Antioch as another winning A program . Their APA internship match rate in the last few years has ranged from 10-56%. What is it will these PsyD diploma mills and As?
 
OneNeuroDoctor said:
With all of the unfilled doctoral level psychologists positions going unfilled every year, especially in underserved rural areas, having reduced psychologists will most likely result in many of these unfilled positions being downgraded to LCSW or LPC level positions.
Click to expand...

If the positions can effectively be "downgraded" (not sure research supports using that specific term in this case) to an MA credentialed person, then they should be. Why should an agency pay more for a psychologist, and why should a psychologist accept less from an agency? Your argument here kind of supports that common position around here that a big risk of schools like Argosy is that they produce graduates with huge debt who can only reliably get work at lower credential salaries.

Also- in my specific case, our unfilled position cannot be met by MA credentialled person, nor was a program like Argosy consistently or confidently producing a psychologist with the necessary skills and competencies to fill the position.
 
ClinicalABA said:
If the positions can effectively be "downgraded" (not sure research supports using that specific term in this case) to an MA credentialed person, then they should be. Why should an agency pay more for a psychologist, and why should a psychologist accept less from an agency? Your argument here kind of supports that common position around here that a big risk of schools like Argosy is that they produce graduates with huge debt who can only reliably get work at lower credential salaries.

Also- in my specific case, our unfilled position cannot be met by MA credentialled person, nor was a program like Argosy consistently or confidently producing a psychologist with the necessary skills and competencies to fill the position.
Click to expand...
That's the other aspect of advocacy and business savvy lacking from the field. Psychologists are not really selling organizations, potential employers, and other entities for how they as psychologists can uniquely offer something that another level or kind of provider cannot. Even something like therapy does not have to be surrendered to mid-levels simply because they are cheaper and there is a research base supporting their effectiveness as therapists.
 
super.ego said:
Unsure if this has already been shared: A College Chain Crumbles, and Millions in Student Loan Cash Disappears
Click to expand...

This is heartbreaking to read. Makes me wonder if students from lower SES and/or ethnic minority students are specifically targeted by schools like Argosy (in addition to the "working professional" crowd). Didn't someone here cite facts about for-profit undergrad schools targeting lower SES/ethnic minority students? I wonder if it extends to graduate schools as well.

Will they confer degrees to those about to finish internship and completed dissertation (or near completion/ready to defend) or is all lost for those folks?
 
ClinicalABA said:
If the positions can effectively be "downgraded" (not sure research supports using that specific term in this case) to an MA credentialed person, then they should be. Why should an agency pay more for a psychologist, and why should a psychologist accept less from an agency? Your argument here kind of supports that common position around here that a big risk of schools like Argosy is that they produce graduates with huge debt who can only reliably get work at lower credential salaries.

Also- in my specific case, our unfilled position cannot be met by MA credentialled person, nor was a program like Argosy consistently or confidently producing a psychologist with the necessary skills and competencies to fill the position.
Click to expand...

I agree, although admittedly this does apply to alot of clinical service positions out there for psychologists. Especially psychologists who do little to no high-level psychological/psychiatric assessment or testing.

I formerly worked PCMHI in the VA. Aside from my role as the internship TD and a small role in research collaborations, that job can and was done by LCSWs at some of our other clinics. I think my doctoral training and health psych education and focus made me do it/approach it differently, but the vast majority of daily duties could indeed by done by someone with a masters degree so long as they had a good medical/health psych background.
 
Between undergrad and grad, I worked for a (bad) psychologist from Forest, who was in private practice. On his website, his bio used to say that he earned a "doctoral degree in clinical psychology from the Forest Institute, etc." -- Now it says exactly the same thing, just the Forest Institute has been removed.
 
foreverbull said:
This is heartbreaking to read. Makes me wonder if students from lower SES and/or ethnic minority students are specifically targeted by schools like Argosy (in addition to the "working professional" crowd). Didn't someone here cite facts about for-profit undergrad schools targeting lower SES/ethnic minority students? I wonder if it extends to graduate schools as well.

Will they confer degrees to those about to finish internship and completed dissertation (or near completion/ready to defend) or is all lost for those folks?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that folks who haven't completed most or all their dissertations (e.g., gathered all data) will likely need to re-do them entirely at a new school. Not sure about folks who've finished their dissertations or only need to defend and are on internship; probably depends on if another program is able/willing to accept them.
 
Apparently 14 APA PSYD Universities have been accepted for the teach out including the Chicago School of Professional Psychology and Alliant University. I believe Forest was set up with a curriculum where you took one course per month evenings or weekends and the programs they accepted for the Teach out had to agree to a similar curriculum, so if students were unable to move they may have driven or flown for the weekend classes during the teach out. Forest had similar situation related to Student Loan money missing and losing Federal Loan approval for their students. Here is what Alliant has on their website:

Argosy Students, We Are Here for You.
We know this time can’t be easy— but we can help you fulfill the goals you set out to achieve. Join our upcoming webinars to guide you through the next steps.
 
OneNeuroDoctor said:
some
Click to expand...
OneNeuroDoctor said:
Apparently 14 APA PSYD Universities have been accepted for the teach out including the Chicago School of Professional Psychology and Alliant University. I believe Forest was set up with a curriculum where you took one course per month evenings or weekends and the programs they accepted for the Teach out had to agree to a similar curriculum, so if students were unable to move they may have driven or flown for the weekend classes during the teach out. Forest had similar situation related to Student Loan money missing and losing Federal Loan approval for their students. Here is what Alliant has on their website:

Argosy Students, We Are Here for You.
We know this time can’t be easy— but we can help you fulfill the goals you set out to achieve. Join our upcoming webinars to guide you through the next steps.
Click to expand...
Yick. These students will be going from one sketchy program to another.
 
futureapppsy2 said:
Yick. These students will be going from one sketchy program to another.
Click to expand...
It's killing me watching the D17 listserv. There are several posts to it praising the Chicago school for professional psych for having dedication to mentoring and strong training. It's like objective outcome data doesn't exist to consistently and easily refute this as a good place to train.

Ugh.
 
The Argosy Website is officially shut down now and here is part of what was posted a short time ago:

Closed School Information
Closed School Information
A list of schools permanently closed can be found on this page. If you are a former student of one of these schools, or if you were a student of a school that was purchased by one of the schools below, please see the following instructions regarding Transcripts, Diplomas, and other questions you may have.

You can also find a list of our transfer partners by visiting Dream Center Education Holdings, LLC.

The following schools are permanently closed:

  • Argosy University Atlanta
  • Argosy University Chicago
  • Argosy University Dallas
  • Argosy University Denver
  • Argosy University Hawaii
  • Argosy University Inland Empire
  • Argosy University Los Angeles
  • Argosy University Nashville
  • Argosy University Northern Virginia
  • Argosy University Online Programs
  • Argosy University Orange County
  • Argosy University Phoenix
  • Argosy University Salt Lake City
  • Argosy University San Diego
  • Argosy University San Francisco Bay Area
  • Argosy University Sarasota
  • Argosy University Schaumburg
  • Argosy University Seattle
  • Argosy University Tampa
  • Argosy University Twin Cities
Academic Transcript Request Form Instructions
  • In order to request a transcript, please follow the steps below. Mailed requests typically require three (3) weeks processing time.
  • Print and complete the Transcript Request Form. We must have your signature in order to process your request.

    Mail form and payment information to:
 
Last edited:
Only two PSYD partner Universities are listed:

Alliant International University
Chicago School of Professional Psychology

Will just two programs be enough to absorb the 2000 or more PsyD students?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Phd?PsyD Application updates, interviews, acceptance and Rejection:
Replies
7
Views
3K
Jungpsychwizard
J
singasongofjoy
Is an updated DAS coming soon? (Differential Ability Scales)
Replies
3
Views
1K
singasongofjoy
singasongofjoy
DynamicDidactic
Updated Resources/Recommendations for LD Assessment and Accommodations
Replies
1
Views
820
ExecutiveDysfunction
E
DynamicDidactic
You thought the Argosy fiasco was all over...
Replies
7
Views
3K
Justanothergrad
J
N
Former Argosy student with serious concerns...
2
Replies
51
Views
6K
psych.meout
P
Top