Arguments with spouse about residency locale?

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PL198 said:
best way to avoid that? don't get married. I can just give my SO a piece of paper that says I love her and it's the same thing as a marriage except it doesn't f*ck one of us if either of us turn into a baller and make a billion dollars.

More people single in US now than married, hm I wonder why
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probably because poor with no job and huge loans
 
PL198 said:
best way to avoid that? don't get married. I can just give my SO a piece of paper that says I love her and it's the same thing as a marriage except it doesn't f*ck one of us if either of us turn into a baller and make a billion dollars.

More people single in US now than married, hm I wonder why
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Better avoid those common law marriage states then!

http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/common-law-marriage.aspx

True about % married, but the overwhelming majority will marry by age 55 at least once (95% according to this)

http://www.meninmarriage.com/article05.htm
 
Psai said:
probably because poor with no job and huge loans
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That's exactly the reason. The amount of student debt people are taking on delays things like marriage, childbearing, having a child, etc. These things aren't an incidental or cultural problem.
 
oldbearprofessor said:
Better avoid those common law marriage states then!

http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/common-law-marriage.aspx

True about % married, but the overwhelming majority will marry by age 55 at least once (95% according to this)

http://www.meninmarriage.com/article05.htm
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I was under the impression, under common law if you had a document signed by both parties saying they did not wish to be married, that this rendered the potential of a common law marriage to be 0. @Law2Doc what say you ?

Also I still LOL at the fact that state governments have the power to declare their citizens married. I've seen some hilarious arguments made for common law.
 
PL198 said:
I was under the impression, under common law if you had a document signed by both parties saying they did not wish to be married, that this rendered the potential of a common law marriage to be 0. @Law2Doc what say you ?

Also I still LOL at the fact that state governments have the power to declare their citizens married. I've seen some hilarious arguments made for common law.
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Good luck finding a woman to sign this paperwork. Lol.
 
tiedyeddog said:
Anyone else in a dedicated relationship, married or not, and having problems trying to decide residency locales with your partner? I just want to know how other people are planning to address these problems.

Info on me: M4 now, spouse is non-medical, grew up around where I am in medical school. We are trying to decide how far away we should be applying. I live in the midwest and there are a few programs in the south/southwest I am really interested in shooting for. However, these programs are >18 hour drives from her parents back home. I know the right thing to do is to rank higher the places near her parents but it kills me to skip out on programs I might really fit into.

Is this process really a sore point for any other couples? How are you figuring this all out?
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I was living with my girlfriend during application season (we lived together for 4 years). We came to the conclusion that I would do whatever I needed to do for residency. I ended up in Texas, about 1500+ miles (well...you know where I live 😛) from home. She moved back home with her family in DC and I'm doing my TY at WVU then going to Houston. She'll meet up with me there during my PGY-3 year. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if it's supposed to work out, it will work out...It's probably different for us because she doesn't have a career yet. She's going into nursing school now, so she'll be able to find work in Houston rather easily when she graduates.
 
tiedyeddog said:
Good luck finding a woman to sign this paperwork. Lol.
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that statement is made with the perception that my life will somehow be less fulfilling if I didn't. along with another that I would pursue someone who wouldn't be interested in such a thing.

2 terrible assumptions
 
Sometimes, even in a marriage, it's easier to beg forgiveness than ask for permission. But do make sure that she'll like wherever you land, or she will make the next several years of your life hell.
 
PL198 said:
that statement is made with the perception that my life will somehow be less fulfilling if I didn't. along with another that I would pursue someone who wouldn't be interested in such a thing.

2 terrible assumptions
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Those two assumptions have nothing to do with my point; you will not find a woman to sign that paper. I as a human being would not sign that paper when bonding with a partner "legally". I would venture a guess that most people would not sign that.

I am not making any assumption about the quality or your life in my statement. Plenty of people are asexual and still have healthy, long lives without ever bonding with a partner. If that is what you want so be it.

On your other point, good luck pursuing a woman that does not exist. I also think think it is admirable when people try to find the Lochness Monster or Big Foot. To each their own.
 
tiedyeddog said:
Those two assumptions have nothing to do with my point; you will not find a woman to sign that paper. I as a human being would not sign that paper when bonding with a partner "legally". I would venture a guess that most people would not sign that.

I am not making any assumption about the quality or your life in my statement. Plenty of people are asexual and still have healthy, long lives without ever bonding with a partner. If that is what you want so be it.

On your other point, good luck pursuing a woman that does not exist. I also think think it is admirable when people try to find the Lochness Monster or Big Foot. To each their own.
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you're so mad. its ok. can you explain more about not wanting marriage = asexual for me?
 
tiedyeddog said:
Those two assumptions have nothing to do with my point; you will not find a woman to sign that paper. I as a human being would not sign that paper when bonding with a partner "legally". I would venture a guess that most people would not sign that.

I am not making any assumption about the quality or your life in my statement. Plenty of people are asexual and still have healthy, long lives without ever bonding with a partner. If that is what you want so be it.

On your other point, good luck pursuing a woman that does not exist. I also think think it is admirable when people try to find the Lochness Monster or Big Foot. To each their own.
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So many assumptions. Too many assumptions. Show me the evidence.
 
boogaloo said:
So many assumptions. Too many assumptions. Show me the evidence.
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preserve-evidence-crime-scene-800x800.jpg


Here is the evidence. Enjoy.

Hope my post makes about as much sense as yours did to me.
 
tiedyeddog said:
Those two assumptions have nothing to do with my point; you will not find a woman to sign that paper. I as a human being would not sign that paper when bonding with a partner "legally". I would venture a guess that most people would not sign that.

I am not making any assumption about the quality or your life in my statement. Plenty of people are asexual and still have healthy, long lives without ever bonding with a partner. If that is what you want so be it.

On your other point, good luck pursuing a woman that does not exist. I also think think it is admirable when people try to find the Lochness Monster or Big Foot. To each their own.
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Interesting logical leap. There really are a lot of people on this site, of which I'm assuming are older/married/very involved with a SO) that really have latched onto this concept that not being OK with the current social norms of marriage (and many other "normal" relationship qualities) are somehow not "men" (referenced from another thread) or "grown ups." Very strange pattern I have noticed. Like they somehow know what constitutes the arbitrarily assigned "normal" relationship between a man and a woman regarding finances, children, sex, geographic preferences, etc. And there is absolutely no room for discussion or disagreement. There is middle ground between your normal BS paper, alimony, child support marriage from the 1950s and simply viewing women as sexual holes. A little consideration for variation in views seems like it would help in many of these discussions.
 
jw3600 said:
Interesting logical leap. There really are a lot of people on this site, of which I'm assuming are older/married/very involved with a SO) that really have latched onto this concept that not being OK with the current social norms of marriage (and many other "normal" relationship qualities) are somehow not "men" (referenced from another thread) or "grown ups." Very strange pattern I have noticed. Like they somehow know what constitutes the arbitrarily assigned "normal" relationship between a man and a woman regarding finances, children, sex, geographic preferences, etc. And there is absolutely no room for discussion or disagreement. There is middle ground between your normal BS paper, alimony, child support marriage from the 1950s and simply viewing women as sexual holes. A little consideration for variation in views seems like it would help in many of these discussions.
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Dude, what on earth are you taking about? I never suggested anything about how relationships should be. You're filling in the spaces and making assumptions.

My point is good luck finding a person you plan on pairing with for extensive amounts of time whom you try to get sign a piece of paper stating they are voiding their legal rights to a common law marriage. In many states common law marriage also applies to homosexual couples, which is great. Where did I state how a relationship should be?

Plenty of people never marry and that is cool. I have family members in long term relationships who have been together for twenty years and never married. It works for them.
 
As far as I can tell, the OP hasn't described the practice setting he hopes to have. If it's private practice, his career prospects would not be made better at an elite university hospital. Remember that the 3 As of private practice, in order of most to least important, are Availability, Affability, and Ability. In fact, at many "community" (sub)surgical residencies you would have higher case numbers than at an institution where there are fellows.

If the OP wants a hardcore academic career, then I think the calculus changes. Nevertheless, all the faculty positions in the US can't be populated by Harvard residents. Conclusion: Happy wife, happy life==compromise with her.
 
tiedyeddog said:
Dude, what on earth are you taking about? I never suggested anything about how relationships should be. You're filling in the spaces and making assumptions.

My point is good luck finding a person you plan on pairing with for extensive amounts of time whom you try to get sign a piece of paper stating they are voiding their legal rights to a common law marriage. In many states common law marriage also applies to homosexual couples, which is great. Where did I state how a relationship should be?

Plenty of people never marry and that is cool. I have family members in long term relationships who have been together for twenty years and never married. It works for them.
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by saying that, you're inherently saying that women are gold-diggers.
 
PL198 said:
by saying that, you're inherently saying that women are gold-diggers.
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I think what he is saying is that finding someone (male or female) who would be willing to sign a financially motivated, legally binding contract (which might require notarization, by the way, since I'm dubious on the legal standing of any such contract) before moving in with another person is extraordinarily unlikely. The very act of proffering such a contract as a condition for cohabitation is an enormous red flag to most who would be romantically interested in you.
 
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blackkrim said:
I think what he is saying is that finding someone (male or female) who would be willing to sign a financially motivated, legally binding contract (which might require notarization, by the way, since I'm dubious on the legal standing of any such contract) before moving in with another person is extraordinarily unlikely. The very act of proffering such a contract as a condition for cohabitation is an enormous red flag to most who would be romantically interested in you.
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I agree it would probably not stand up in court unless it were very fair and equitable to both parties. Pre-nups get struck down all the time if they aren't fair or weren't made in good faith or for who knows what other loopholes.
 
operaman said:
I agree it would probably not stand up in court unless it were very fair and equitable to both parties. Pre-nups get struck down all the time if they aren't fair or weren't made in good faith or for who knows what other loopholes.
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The problem is that people, generally being cheap, go for the cheapest option available, not realizing this may come back to bite them in the ass in the future. Unsurprisingly, these documents then fail to stand up in court due to their poor quality. Getting a proper pre-nup is both expensive and time-consuming. An initial consultation for a pre-nup was running several hundred bucks when I was looking. This doesn't even include hours billed for actually drafting the document. This also doesn't include any costs associated with your SO having their own independent lawyer reviewing the document, which is a de facto necessity to having a chance of it being upheld in court.

TL;DR: many, many states have laws that validate pre-nups generally. The pre-nups that get struck down are likely 1) bought from LegalZoom or other similar services, 2) contain stupid demands which they legally aren't allowed to, and/or 3) were not reviewed by lawyers for BOTH individuals. If you do these things and live in a state that honors pre-nups, it is highly likely that it will be upheld.
 
tiedyeddog said:
Dude, what on earth are you taking about? I never suggested anything about how relationships should be. You're filling in the spaces and making assumptions.

I never said you did specifically, although I would put you in the group that I was referring to in my last post who seem to think along those lines of reasoning.

My point is good luck finding a person you plan on pairing with for extensive amounts of time whom you try to get sign a piece of paper stating they are voiding their legal rights to a common law marriage.

I mean obviously there are people out there that would understand one's desire to not have financial mandates imposed on them by some out dated legal precedent. And as PL198 implied, the only reason to have a problem with this is if you are considering financial consequences if something were to happen and felt like you might get "screwed" or not given what some of our whacky divorce laws say you are entitled to. There is nothing wrong with discussing what would be mutually acceptable in a variety of unfortunate circumstances.
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Gunninforpeds said:
You better believe I'm going to consider my wife and kid's wants/needs heavily when making my rank list. Probably at the expense of going to the most ideal place for me, career-wise. That doesn't make me whipped it makes me a grown up.
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This is more of what I was referring to.

NickNaylor had some good points about prenuptual agreements as well. So many times on this site I have seen people claim prenups get ripped apart by courts. These are usually ones that are made with malicious intent. A court is not going to consider a prenup invalid made by two consenting people with complete understanding of the contract who had legal representation. Especially, if this document specifically addresses not defaulting to common law marriage.

Edited to allow my responses in red to be easier to read.
 
jw3600 said:
This is more of what I was referring to.

NickNaylor had some good points about prenuptual agreements as well. So many times on this site I have seen people claim prenups get ripped apart by courts. These are usually ones that are made with malicious intent. A court is not going to consider a prenup invalid made by two consenting people with complete understanding of the contract who had legal representation. Especially, if this document specifically addresses not defaulting to common law marriage.

Edited to allow my responses in red to be easier to read.
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lol what does that mean, made with malicious intent? Like do you understand what a pre-nup is? it's nothing to do about malice, it's protecting your assets. and they throw out legally solid pre-nups all the time...
 
If I got married and then divorced, would my divorced wife be responsible for half my student loans?
 
The point of this thread is ridiculous to me. I can train wherever the f*** I want and I don't have to "discuss" or consider whatever nonsense somebody else wants (seriously, her parents??). But I guess some enjoy the lifestyle of marriage and family, and others do not.

To me, the idea of being with the same person every single day is absolutely ridiculous. A lot of my married friends settled down because they felt like they couldn't do any better (which was probably true) and now regret it. I'm not trying to brag, but I have no problem meeting plenty of interesting women regularly and can't see the point of settling down. I get laid more than most of my friends who are married (especially the ones with kids). I definitely don't want to endanger half of my assets, or spend a ton of money on crap that I'm not interested in.

I still like to party, even at my age, and I'm just not interested in kids, settling down, or committing to one woman. I don't want to live with a woman (or anyone else for that matter), and I enjoy having my freedom. If I feel like getting hammered and staying out? No problem, I don't have to call and ask for permission. Vegas trip? As long as I'm off work, let's go right now. I can do whatever or whoever the F I want. I just can't see any woman being worth giving up all that freedom.

But to each his own.
 
DarknightX said:
The point of this thread is ridiculous to me. I can train wherever the f*** I want and I don't have to "discuss" or consider whatever nonsense somebody else wants (seriously, her parents??). But I guess some enjoy the lifestyle of marriage and family, and others do not.

To me, the idea of being with the same person every single day is absolutely ridiculous. A lot of my married friends settled down because they felt like they couldn't do any better (which was probably true) and now regret it. I'm not trying to brag, but I have no problem meeting plenty of interesting women regularly and can't see the point of settling down. I get laid more than most of my friends who are married (especially the ones with kids). I definitely don't want to endanger half of my assets, or spend a ton of money on crap that I'm not interested in.

I still like to party, even at my age, and I'm just not interested in kids, settling down, or committing to one woman. I don't want to live with a woman (or anyone else for that matter), and I enjoy having my freedom. If I feel like getting hammered and staying out? No problem, I don't have to call and ask for permission. Vegas trip? As long as I'm off work, let's go right now. I can do whatever or whoever the F I want. I just can't see any woman being worth giving up all that freedom.

But to each his own.
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You don't want to have children?
 
jw3600 said:
This is more of what I was referring to.

NickNaylor had some good points about prenuptual agreements as well. So many times on this site I have seen people claim prenups get ripped apart by courts. These are usually ones that are made with malicious intent. A court is not going to consider a prenup invalid made by two consenting people with complete understanding of the contract who had legal representation. Especially, if this document specifically addresses not defaulting to common law marriage.

Edited to allow my responses in red to be easier to read.
Click to expand...

It is my understanding that a court will disregard most prenups after an extended amount of time into the marriage. That is how it works in my home state at least, and understandably so if an extensive amount of money is made during the marriage. Regardless, prenups will only protect against assets that existed before the marriage began. If you make 2 million during the marriage then that is an open target. Additionally, assets that are used by both people in the marriage are often a grey area, like a house both people live in or cats both people use. A prenup, at least in my state, is not a golden ticket to protecting all assets. In other states it may be different.

Regardless, not sure why my post was singled out as being "stuck to old fashioned gender roles" or whatever. The roles in my relationship are set up to maximize our respective life goals and the institution of marriage is mutually beneficial towards that means. Whether those goals are instilled in us from years of subliminal undertones by society demanding we live this way, I don't know and don't care.
 
DermViser said:
You don't want to have children?
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I don't like the things going on in the world enough to possibly subject my offspring to that. Like that infinity commercial about the car having automatic driving aids that prevent you from swerving out of your lane or rear ending someone. What ever happened to just f*cking paying attention while driving and not being a dip****? If that's what the future entails, I honestly will do whatever I can to get away from it and would not want kids. I think more people would be up for having kids if the laws regarding such weren't as anti-male as they are.
 
tiedyeddog said:
I want to have children. She wants to have children. I think many of the posters hating on marriage in here don't yet consider children to be apart of their future lives, which is ok.
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That's the thing though, you're just sitting here painting false flags to attack. The world isn't a) I want to get married and love her for the rest of my life and reproduce like bunnies or b) I just want to get with every piece that walks by me.
(Not going to call it strawman b/c thats how every douche on the internet just refutes each others points)
All you can see is nails, because you only have a hammer.
 
tiedyeddog said:
Regardless, not sure why my post was singled out as being "stuck to old fashioned gender roles" or whatever.
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I wasn't singling you out for being stuck to old fashioned gender roles. I quoted your post because of your absurd asexual comment. There are some people with very traditional views on relationships on here and that's what I was commenting about. You may or may not be a part of it. Not sure. It seems like we agree that people should just do what they want to do without acting like their way is the right and only way.

PL198 said:
lol what does that mean, made with malicious intent? Like do you understand what a pre-nup is? it's nothing to do about malice, it's protecting your assets. and they throw out legally solid pre-nups all the time...
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I was just saying there are degrees of reasonableness with prenups. I think we essentially have the same opinion on them. And with regards to throwing out prenups, I guess it really does depend on the state. And if they are thrown out frequently in certain states, then that further solidifies my opinion that divorce law is actually absurd and the legality of "having a relationshiop" is nonsensical.
 
jw3600 said:
I wasn't singling you out for being stuck to old fashioned gender roles. I quoted your post because of your absurd asexual comment. There are some people with very traditional views on relationships on here and that's what I was commenting about. You may or may not be a part of it. Not sure. It seems like we agree that people should just do what they want to do without acting like their way is the right and only way.


I was just saying there are degrees of reasonableness with prenups. I think we essentially have the same opinion on them. And with regards to throwing out prenups, I guess it really does depend on the state. And if they are thrown out frequently in certain states, then that further solidifies my opinion that divorce law is actually absurd and the legality of "having a relationshiop" is nonsensical.
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When you talk about being reasonable, does that mean with regards to assets obtained after the marriage, in the event of a divorce? Just checking as not sure we're on same page.
 
NickNaylor said:
The problem is that people, generally being cheap, go for the cheapest option available, not realizing this may come back to bite them in the ass in the future. Unsurprisingly, these documents then fail to stand up in court due to their poor quality. Getting a proper pre-nup is both expensive and time-consuming. An initial consultation for a pre-nup was running several hundred bucks when I was looking. This doesn't even include hours billed for actually drafting the document. This also doesn't include any costs associated with your SO having their own independent lawyer reviewing the document, which is a de facto necessity to having a chance of it being upheld in court.

TL;DR: many, many states have laws that validate pre-nups generally. The pre-nups that get struck down are likely 1) bought from LegalZoom or other similar services, 2) contain stupid demands which they legally aren't allowed to, and/or 3) were not reviewed by lawyers for BOTH individuals. If you do these things and live in a state that honors pre-nups, it is highly likely that it will be upheld.
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You're getting a prenup?
 
DarknightX said:
Nope. Not interested.

There are many, many, many children who need a good home. If I was to ever get married (unlikely), I would adopt.
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So you're just going to have mindless *** with different women forever?
 
PL198 said:
When you talk about being reasonable, does that mean with regards to assets obtained after the marriage, in the event of a divorce? Just checking as not sure we're on same page.
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Unreasonable: If X party gains more than 15 pounds of weight and refuses to give oral 3x/week, grounds for divorce and no assets awarded.

Reasonable: In the event of the divorce of 2 parties, 1 whose income is in high 6 figures or even 7 figures (athletes, actors, CEOs), the other party is entitled to some sort of asset allocation and/or yearly allowance/income for X years, agreed upon by both parties prior to marriage.

I'm sure you get that I'm saying there is stuff judges will laugh at and stuff that judges will say: "OK, if that's what you agreed upon, fine by me."
 
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DarknightX said:
If I'm lucky, yes!
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Were you slighted by a woman in the past? Or is marriage with one woman just not appealing to you in general? Or is it bc marriage means you can't do everything you want and you don't want to ever compromise?
 
DermViser said:
Were you slighted by a woman in the past? Or is marriage with one woman just not appealing to you in general? Or is it bc marriage means you can't do everything you want and you don't want to ever compromise?
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Why do you think marriage is so good? It's essentially a trap for the dude legally where if either of them ever decide they don't want in it, the male is screwed. You have kids? Automatic full custody to the mom, and you'll get to visit once a week the kids that you are the one paying for. Marriage can be great, but even if I find someone I think is perfect for me, there's no way I'm ever getting married because the legal risk in the event of something happening is just too damn high.
 
PL198 said:
Why do you think marriage is so good? It's essentially a trap for the dude legally where if either of them ever decide they don't want in it, the male is screwed. You have kids? Automatic full custody to the mom, and you'll get to visit once a week the kids that you are the one paying for. Marriage can be great, but even if I find someone I think is perfect for me, there's no way I'm ever getting married because the legal risk in the event of something happening is just too damn high.
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Dude, you're 21. There is a reason that evolutionarily we gravitate towards marriage, families, having children. You can tell yourself that you don't want those things at all - but that's a voluntary, conscious decision. Not everything is a contract/transaction. You're thinking this way too deep.
 
DermViser said:
Were you slighted by a woman in the past? Or is marriage with one woman just not appealing to you in general? Or is it bc marriage means you can't do everything you want and you don't want to ever compromise?
Click to expand...

To answer your questions: No, Yes, and Yes.

Never been slighted, usually I do the slighting and I do feel bad for actions when I was younger.

Marriage to one women is not appealing to me at all. I love meeting new people, especially new beautiful women, and I just don't think I could stay faithful to one, no matter how amazing she was.

I want to do everything when I want and the way I want to do it. I work damn hard, so I don't see why I should have to compromise my free time to satisfy someone else and their desires. I don't want to go shopping, hang out with other stupid couples that I don't like, or pretend to be interested in things I could care less about. If I'm off on Sunday, I want to watch football, not have brunch with her parents. I have little free time, so the time that I do have, I'd rather spend doing things that I actually want to do and with people I want to spend it with.

When I was in my late 20's and early 30's I did get lonely at times, as all my friends were getting married, but now everyone is getting divorced so I have plenty of people to hang out with. Plus I don't have to pay half my salary to anyone. I'm driving a luxury sports car (thanks to mooonlighting during research year) while most of my friends who make way more money than me are driving buckets and can barely survive.

Plus recently divorced women are the best for one night stands!
 
PL198 said:
Why do you think marriage is so good? It's essentially a trap for the dude legally where if either of them ever decide they don't want in it, the male is screwed. You have kids? Automatic full custody to the mom, and you'll get to visit once a week the kids that you are the one paying for. Marriage can be great, but even if I find someone I think is perfect for me, there's no way I'm ever getting married because the legal risk in the event of something happening is just too damn high.
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That's not how custody works in most states...but feel free to continue dislikig marriage
 
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