Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

[notdeadyet]

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Good question.. Ok so I just briefly read FY11 AMEDD Officer policy memo and this is what I found:

Page 10 item 9c: MDSSP... this obligation period will be satisfied immediately following program completion ; which is residency for medical students.. Unless the individual elects to enter into the STRAP program for residency in an eligible specialty. In that event, the original MDSSP contract will be amended. Please see ... guidance in paragraph 10.

Page 12 item 10c: in the case of an MDSSP participant who enters into a training program not designated... as a specialty critically needed by the Army in wartime OR who enters into a training program that is critically short but declines to contract for STRAP, the obligation incurred under the MDSSP agreement begins upon completion of the residency and/or fellowship.

Wow. This is a big change to policy, infirmarydude. And I've confirmed it as well. The first (and latest) mention I've seen of this new payback scheme is from March of this year. Prior to that, MDSSP began payback upon completion of medical school. Now, MDSSP recipients will begin payback upon completion of residency. This closes a loophole a lot of us have been waiting to see closed. That loophole was to take MDSSP during the final two years of medical school, then serve your four years of obligation during residency. These folks could then serve out the final two years of their contract in IRR and feasibly never serve as BE/BC physicians. Looks like this is no longer a possibility.

Don't these seem to contradict?

No, I don't see a contradiction between the two paragraphs. MDSSP now enters payback after completion of residency. Where do you read the contradiction? I may be missing it...

 

[notdeadyet]

Will notdeadyet or one of the other thread old-timers please comment on how these policy changes usually shake out for those who signed contracts just prior to the change?

It's going to depend on what your individual contract reads. If yours reads obligation according to the old policy, that will be honored regardless of the new policy. Unfortunately, I can't specify better than that because I've never signed up anyone to MDSSP before so I haven't seen a draft of the contract.

If, for example, one had a signed contract with dates consistent with the previous policy, would that contract be honored...or amended?

The contract will be honored. The only potential bug is if the contract reads "the payback will begin after conclusion of medical school or as per current DoD policy" or somesuch. Anything that reads "according to current policy" should be dealt with caution.

The Army will not amend already signed contracts to suit new policy. Unless you volunteered to do so. Which would be nuts.

Also, is there a proper, non-internet forum contact for questions like this?

For those who've already signed, they should run it by their chain-of-command. For those who haven't, they should run it by their recruiter.

And this policy will be a surprise to a lot of recruiters. The FY AMEDD Incentives policy was already set and a 20 page memo sent out last year at some point. This new one dated in March 2011 (that you linked to) was released mid-year without any fanfare, so the changes may not have been noticed.

This new policy change was a longtime coming. In general, from what I've seen, anytime a program looks too good to be true, look at it again for the catch. If there's no catch, the program has a loophole and expect that loophole to be closed in a few years. The ASR program and MDSSP program both allowed medical students to sign up, reap benefits, and potentially leave without ever serving in a functional/deployable capacity. So they killed ASR entirely and closed the loophole in MDSSP.

 

[notdeadyet]

Also, recently 1starmamtis (if that's his name) was saying that med students are only not deployable in his state if they take mdssp etc. The language in this policy memo does seem to imply that... It mentions those in mdssp and strap are protected from deployment specifically.

The non-deployability of medical students and residents is national policy, not state, so it's the same for everyone. If you are in a medical student MOS, you are non-deployable. If you are in residency, you are non-deployable.

There's a separate policy memo that covers this (Exemption Policy from Involuntary Mobilization for Reserve Component AMEDD Officers Participating in Health Professional Programs).

The only way you can be deployed as a medical student is if you are prior service with a deployable MOS that is not changed while you are in medical school. If you are prior service, you need to ensure that your MOS is changed to that of a medical student and you're good.

 

[notdeadyet]

Are residents eligible for the $2,500 CME credit each year while doing STRAP?

Yes, but it's up to the discretion of your command, so it's not universal. I've heard of lots of residents using it, but haven't heard of it being denied, but technically your state could do so.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

It's going to depend on what your individual contract reads. If yours reads obligation according to the old policy, that will be honored regardless of the new policy. Unfortunately, I can't specify better than that because I've never signed up anyone to MDSSP before so I haven't seen a draft of the contract.

The contract will be honored. The only potential bug is if the contract reads "the payback will begin after conclusion of medical school or as per current DoD policy" or somesuch. Anything that reads "according to current policy" should be dealt with caution.

The Army will not amend already signed contracts to suit new policy. Unless you volunteered to do so. Which would be nuts.

For those who've already signed, they should run it by their chain-of-command. For those who haven't, they should run it by their recruiter.

And this policy will be a surprise to a lot of recruiters. The FY AMEDD Incentives policy was already set and a 20 page memo sent out last year at some point. This new one dated in March 2011 (that you linked to) was released mid-year without any fanfare, so the changes may not have been noticed.

This new policy change was a longtime coming. In general, from what I've seen, anytime a program looks too good to be true, look at it again for the catch. If there's no catch, the program has a loophole and expect that loophole to be closed in a few years. The ASR program and MDSSP program both allowed medical students to sign up, reap benefits, and potentially leave without ever serving in a functional/deployable capacity. So they killed ASR entirely and closed the loophole in MDSSP.

Just to clarify for anyone that signed under the old policy, the exact language regarding repayment is: "That upon completion of medical, osteopathic, or dental school, I will serve in and participate satisfactorily in the Selected Reserve for one year for each six months (or part thereof) for which I received a stipend."

The contract also states the date that MDSSP payments/participation will terminate, and a specific date, should the soldier receive the stipend during the specified period, that the service obligation will end.

 

[infirmarydude]

Notdeadyet thanks for the replies.

Seems like the new policy is closing the loopholes as well as making the complicated mathematical equations of mdssp and strap slightly easier... Basically take all or none...

So the way I see it... NG with all the benefits of mdssp strap hplrp special pay taken to full extent (in my case) would get me to year 20 and retirement, possibly. The main thing I am not comfortable with is that I am essentially committing many years to being a NG physician prior to actually experiencing what it is like (since my commitment builds from mdssp while in med school). I really do want to serve and the money is a nice incentive but its a huge decision. (but I have months to decide while my app is in process... Ps I passed MEPS but no surprise there)

Also thanks for explaining the field surgeon thing, I must have read the chart differently.

 

[Chowdahead2013]

Notdeadyet thanks for the replies.

Seems like the new policy is closing the loopholes as well as making the complicated mathematical equations of mdssp and strap slightly easier... Basically take all or none...

So the way I see it... NG with all the benefits of mdssp strap hplrp special pay taken to full extent (in my case) would get me to year 20 and retirement, possibly. The main thing I am not comfortable with is that I am essentially committing many years to being a NG physician prior to actually experiencing what it is like (since my commitment builds from mdssp while in med school). I really do want to serve and the money is a nice incentive but its a huge decision. (but I have months to decide while my app is in process... Ps I passed MEPS but no surprise there)

Also thanks for explaining the field surgeon thing, I must have read the chart differently.

I took a look at this new policy and (tentatively) have decided to not take MDSSP or STRAP and just collect drill/training pay until I am HPLRP eligible.

Now that these loopholes seem closed, avoiding any 2:1 payback options seems like the best if one is not sure about a 20 year commitment. I'll still be borrowing some to finish my degree, but $40k/year payback in PGY3+ will knock my loans out much faster than accepting a stipend now would reduce my loan burden. I'd rather have year-to-year incentives like HPLRP or the special Drill Pay so that I can have a couple 'outs' along the way if I decide a 20-year career is not for me.

Question - has anyone used any of these GI bill incentives? I know the Yellow Ribbon thing is for returning vets but there seem to be other programs for going to school. Tuition reimbursement (that's a state-by-state thing) and the GI Bill/Kicker for some book money. Can we get those for med school, or is that undergrad only?

 

[infirmarydude]

I took a look at this new policy and (tentatively) have decided to not take MDSSP or STRAP and just collect drill/training pay until I am HPLRP eligible.

I was thinking this as well.

Now that these loopholes seem closed, avoiding any 2:1 payback options seems like the best if one is not sure about a 20 year commitment. I'll still be borrowing some to finish my degree, but $40k/year payback in PGY3+ will knock my loans out much faster than accepting a stipend now would reduce my loan burden. I'd rather have year-to-year incentives like HPLRP or the special Drill Pay so that I can have a couple 'outs' along the way if I decide a 20-year career is not for me.

FYI: from what I understand, you are only HPLRP eligible as a PGY3+ IF you ALSO take STRAP concurrently with HPLRP. If you opt to not take STRAP, then you will not be eligible to take HPLRP until after you complete residency.

is for returning vets but there seem to be other programs for going to school. Tuition reimbursement (that's a state-by-state thing) and the GI Bill/Kicker for some book money. Can we get those for med school, or is that undergrad only?

great question.. I'm sure someone more knowledgable will have an answer

 

[notdeadyet]

Just to clarify for anyone that signed under the old policy, the exact language regarding repayment is: "That upon completion of medical, osteopathic, or dental school, I will serve in and participate satisfactorily in the Selected Reserve for one year for each six months (or part thereof) for which I received a stipend."

TMR- Thanks for posting that. Very reassuring to anyone who already signed up. Good news.

Seems like the new policy is closing the loopholes as well as making the complicated mathematical equations of mdssp and strap slightly easier... Basically take all or none...

Mmmm... I'm not sure I'd look at it that way. You can take either MDSSP or STRAP if you just want $100K through school or residency and an 8 year commitment.

NG with all the benefits of mdssp strap hplrp special pay taken to full extent (in my case) would get me to year 20 and retirement, possibly. The main thing I am not comfortable with is that I am essentially committing many years to being a NG physician prior to actually experiencing what it is like (since my commitment builds from mdssp while in med school).

Luckily, you don't commit to all of it, kit and kaboodle. You take it piecemeal. And even if you only take 4 years of STRAP, you're looking at almost 20 years if you take the full HPLRP.

MDSSP used to be a great "taster" where students could see what it's like to wear a uniform and decide as they go if they want to actually serve a deployment. Now that that's no longer an option, folks should consider carefully between STRAP or MDSSP before signing. There's a strong case to be made for serving without taking either program and just doing it for the HPLRP benefits and pulling the plug at your convenience. On the other hand, this assumes HPLRP will still be at $240K 8 years from now, which is far from guaranteed.

 

[infirmarydude]

Mmmm... I'm not sure I'd look at it that way. You can take either MDSSP or STRAP if you just want $100K through school or residency and an 8 year commitment.

Yes taking MDSSP will give you an 8 year commitment that must be repaid after residency - but I thought if you do MDSSP and STRAP then they both become a 1:1 which means 4 years of both = 8 years total commitment but double the money?

On the other hand, this assumes HPLRP will still be at $240K 8 years from now, which is far from guaranteed.

good point

 

[notdeadyet]

I took a look at this new policy and (tentatively) have decided to not take MDSSP or STRAP and just collect drill/training pay until I am HPLRP eligible.

Good stuff, Chowdahead. Just make sure that you're put in a medical student (non-deployable) slot. I believe it's usually 00E67.

Now that these loopholes seem closed, avoiding any 2:1 payback options seems like the best if one is not sure about a 20 year commitment. I'll still be borrowing some to finish my degree, but $40k/year payback in PGY3+ will knock my loans out much faster than accepting a stipend now would reduce my loan burden.

The $40K/year HPLRP (loan repayment) is not available to you until you finish residency. It's only available in PGY3+ to folks a) in the STRAP program and b) doing a residency on the critical warfare shortage list.

I'd rather have year-to-year incentives like HPLRP or the special Drill Pay so that I can have a couple 'outs' along the way if I decide a 20-year career is not for me.

Good strategy.

Question - has anyone used any of these GI bill incentives? I know the Yellow Ribbon thing is for returning vets but there seem to be other programs for going to school. Tuition reimbursement (that's a state-by-state thing) and the GI Bill/Kicker for some book money. Can we get those for med school, or is that undergrad only?

Are you talking about GI Bill incentives earned while a med student or prior service? If your only service in the Guard is as a medical student, you are eligible for the Montgomery GI Bill- Selective Reserve (aka Chapter 1606). This pays out at $337/month. You can take this benefit only after completing BOLC and you'll need to have 6 years service ahead of you after you take it.

The Post-9/11 GI Bill (the big gun), isn't available to you unless you deployed under Title 10 (federal) orders.

Everyone is eligible for Federal Tuition Assistance (which comes to $4500/year). Other specific states have additional tuition benefits.

 

[notdeadyet]

Yes taking MDSSP will give you an 8 year commitment that must be repaid after residency - but I thought if you do MDSSP and STRAP then they both become a 1:1 which means 4 years of both = 8 years total commitment but double the money?

No, this has never been the case. If that was true, then anyone taking 4 years of MDSSP would automatically just take 4 years of STRAP since both obligations would be 8 years, right?

If you take MDSSP or STRAP, you incur an obligation of 2:1 (2 years drilling for every 1 year of benefits). Under current policy, the obligation will start to be paid back after you complete residency.

If you take MDSSP AND STRAP, you incur an obligation of 1:1 (1 year drilling for every 1 year of benefits) for MDSSP and an obligation of 2:1 (2 year drilling for every 1 year of benefits) for STRAP. A four year medical degree and four year residency would total 12 years of drilling, payable immediately after residency. This has been the policy at least for the past 3 or 4 years.

 

[infirmarydude]

If you take MDSSP AND STRAP, you incur an obligation of 1:1 (1 year drilling for every 1 year of benefits) for MDSSP and an obligation of 2:1 (2 year drilling for every 1 year of benefits) for STRAP. A four year medical degree and four year residency would total 12 years of drilling, payable immediately after residency. This has been the policy at least for the past 3 or 4 years.

Wow! thanks for clarifying! That is been something I have been unclear about for a while.

 

[notdeadyet]

Wow! thanks for clarifying! That is been something I have been unclear about for a while.

No worries. The MDSSP + STRAP thing throws people. So does when you can take HPLRP and how it affects payback of other programs. It gets confusing.

 

[infirmarydude]

On the topic:
if I take MDSSP MS 3-4 and then STRAP year 3-4 (so I can get HPLRP) will the two years of STRAP make the two years of MDSSP into 1:1 or does that only work if I take them all the years?

 

[DeadCactus]

Anyone here put in for 1LT? How long did the process take? I'll have the requirements done a month or two past the earliest date I could have been promoted; I'm just curious how many pay cycles of 1LT pay my procrastination cost me...

 

[notdeadyet]

Anyone here put in for 1LT? How long did the process take? I'll have the requirements done a month or two past the earliest date I could have been promoted; I'm just curious how many pay cycles of 1LT pay my procrastination cost me...

It took me about 8 weeks to go from 2LT to 1LT from when I was eligible.

Keep in mind, you are backdated your pay. My pay stayed at 2LT level for 8 weeks after eligibility, then I got a big paycheck, then I was on 1LT rates. Make sense?

 

[DeadCactus]

It took me about 8 weeks to go from 2LT to 1LT from when I was eligible.

Keep in mind, you are backdated your pay. My pay stayed at 2LT level for 8 weeks after eligibility, then I got a big paycheck, then I was on 1LT rates. Make sense?

I was aware they back-date the pay, but I was unsure of what date they back-date it to.

My understanding is that:
1) You need 18 months, a current passing PFT, and completion of OBLC
2) When you meet the requirements, the state promotes you and then forwards the promotion to the federal level for approval
3) Federal approval comes through and you pin on 1LT and get some back pay

Correct? Now do they back-date to 18 months, to the date you complete all the requirements, or to the date you get state approval?

I would think state approval, though in practice the difference between that date and the date you complete the requirements may be negligible if there's no need for a board or anything. Not sure what exactly is involved in the promotion to O2 since its basically automatic...

 

[notdeadyet]

Your understanding is correct about 1-3...

Now do they back-date to 18 months, to the date you complete all the requirements, or to the date you get state approval?

They back date it to date of eligibility (meaning, when you've completed BOLC or hit the 18 month mark, whichever is later).

I would think state approval, though in practice the difference between that date and the date you complete the requirements may be negligible if there's no need for a board or anything. Not sure what exactly is involved in the promotion to O2 since its basically automatic...

I haven't heard of anything about state approval being a marker, but maybe it varies by state? I know in mine, they didn't seem particularly rushed about submitting the paperwork, saying it's backdated to eligibility anyway.

 

[DeadCactus]

Good stuff. As always, thanks for the info.

 

[notdeadyet]

On the off-chance we still have some of the old-timers still on this thread, has anyone used the $2,500 CME allowance that we're supposedly eligible for once we're residents?

 

[zubirix2k]

Hi All, I have been lurking in this thread for a while and decided to post.

I graduated med school recently and I am going to be attending a 6 year residency program. Because I have always wanted to serve and because of the NG contract made sence for my family (I am married without kids), I am considering signing the contract.

During the contract i plan on taking drill pay as well as the tuition repayment. From what I have read here the repayment does not begin until pgy-3. The recruiter told me that it would begin in PGY-1? Is he lying? Wrong?or is it a state by state thing? I am in Michigan by the way. Does any one have a link to the official wording?

One last question I have is regarding resigning a your commision before it is up. My wife is concerned that what if we really dislike the commitment and it is very hard on our family. Does anyone know what would happen if I applied and was granted my resignation? Any links or sources to this info.

Thanks in advance.

 

[notdeadyet]

During the contract i plan on taking drill pay as well as the tuition repayment.

So I take it that you will be joining as a drilling medical resident without taking STRAP (the program that pays residents $2K/month)?

From what I have read here the repayment does not begin until pgy-3. The recruiter told me that it would begin in PGY-1? Is he lying? Wrong?or is it a state by state thing? I am in Michigan by the way. Does any one have a link to the official wording?

When I was looking at joining and asked about HPLRP, I was also told it would be available PGY-1. I'm not sure if this is really old info or just a bad rumor, but I can't find evidence that it's ever been true.

As for what is true right now, for non-STRAP applicants, you can not take HPLRP unless you are board eligible (i.e.: finished residency).

The PGY-3 thing is an exception to this that is allowed in a very specific circumstance. If you are already taking STRAP, you can take HPLRP in PGY-3 and beyond as long as you are in a specialty on the critical warfare shortage list.

Example 1: You are not taking STRAP, you are just drilling status. You can not begin taking HPLRP until you are done with training.

Example 2: You are taking STRAP for your six years of residency. During PGY-3, 4, 5, and 6, you can take HPLRP for a maximum of $160K paid out during that time. After you complete residency, you will pay back the 12 years for which you owe from taking STRAP. Or you can possibly continue on HPLRP for an additional two years to take the additional $80K (for the total maximum of $240K). Then you would pay back the 12 years owed from STRAP.

For full details of these programs, the most recent incentives policy document was linked from this post.

See page 6, section 6.f.9, for description of HPLRP alone. See page 12, section 11 for description of taking HPLRP with STRAP. The document describes in further detail what I mentioned above.

What specialty are you going into? I ask because I don't know of any six year residencies that are on the critical wartime shortage list. Which means that you'll have to be willing to work as a field surgeon or flight surgeon while you're serving in the National Guard.

 

[notdeadyet]

One last question I have is regarding resigning a your commision before it is up. My wife is concerned that what if we really dislike the commitment and it is very hard on our family. Does anyone know what would happen if I applied and was granted my resignation? Any links or sources to this info.

Once you sign your contract and are commissioned, you are committed to the military and you will not be able to leave just because it's hard on your family.

If you sign up for STRAP for six years of residency, you will be in the National Guard for 18 years minimum (from time of joining until you can resign your commission).

If you join as a PGY-3 and sign up for STRAP to get HPLRP benefits right away, you will be in the National Guard for 12 years minimum.

If you join as a PGY-1 without taking any program, you will be in for the six years in drilling status every month and two weeks every year. With Flexi-Training, you can drill as little as once every 3 months and two weeks every other year.

And keep in mind if you are starting the process now, it will likely be 3-6 months before you are commissioned and the clock starts ticking, so it will be 6 years from that point. If that give you six months post-residency that you are drilling, you are deployable for that time.

Also keep in mind that you may only be in drilling status for 6 years, but your military service obligation is 8 years. The last two years are spent in the IRR (Individual Ready Reserve) in which you do nothing, but could theoretically be called up if we hit WWIII or the like.

This isn't meant to be scary, but once you join, you will fulfill your contract. There are exceptions, but these exceptions are much worse than actuallly fufilling your contract (e.g.: you and your wife have kids and your wife dies and you can't take care of the kids, you suffer a severe disability or crippling injury, etc.).

There is some variation in how serious each state's National Guard takes itself. In some states, it's very much considered being in the Army; in other states, it's much more lax how they treat themselves (though the good-old-boy, kicking-back-on-the-weekend thing is limited to fewer and fewer states now). But do not expect any laxity on getting out of a contract early, as that goes through Washington and they are not going to be sympathetic or flexible.

Have a long talk with your wife and make sure this decision is right for your family.

 

[zubirix2k]

So I take it that you will be joining as a drilling medical resident without taking STRAP (the program that pays residents $2K/month)?

Yes I am not taking strap and just the drill pay with the HPLRP.

When I was looking at joining and asked about HPLRP, I was also told it would be available PGY-1. I'm not sure if this is really old info or just a bad rumor, but I can't find evidence that it's ever been true.

THen I do not understand why the recruiter keeps saying this, I am going to challenge him on that testament, as well as ask to see it in writing.

What specialty are you going into? I ask because I don't know of any six year residencies that are on the critical wartime shortage list. Which means that you'll have to be willing to work as a field surgeon or flight surgeon while you're serving in the National Guard.

Yes I am not taking strap and just the drill pay with the HPLRP.

Regarding the HPLRP starting at PGY3 and not PGY1, then I do not understand why the recruiter keeps saying this, I am going to challenge him on that testament, as well as ask to see it in writing.

I am doing a six year orthopaedic surgery program. 5 years clinical and 1 year research.

 

[zubirix2k]

If you join as a PGY-1 without taking any program, you will be in for the six years in drilling status every month and two weeks every year. With Flexi-Training, you can drill as little as once every 3 months and two weeks every other year.


Why is this different than the normal 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year. Because why wouldn't everybody want to do that sort of commitment?

 

[notdeadyet]

Regarding the HPLRP starting at PGY3 and not PGY1, then I do not understand why the recruiter keeps saying this, I am going to challenge him on that testament, as well as ask to see it in writing.

Do. And print out the document that was linked above. This is the most recent list of AMEDD incentive programs. I'll be shocked if he has anything different, but again, that rumor definitely goes around.

I am doing a six year orthopaedic surgery program. 5 years clinical and 1 year research.

It will be interesting to hear what your state makes of this. In some states, folks recruited in med school who end up going the orthopedic surgery route end up either working as Field Surgeon's (think: intern-level primary care) or transferring to the Reserve.

Although Orthopedic Surgeon's used to be eligible for STRAP, Special Pay, and HPLRP, they aren't any longer. So if you were looking to take HPLRP after you finished residency (you couldn't take it while in residency, since you're not STRAP), you would likely have to be willing to work as a Field Surgeon rather than actual surgeon, unless you wanted to look at switching to the Reserve.

 

[notdeadyet]

Why is this different than the normal 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year. Because why wouldn't everybody want to do that sort of commitment?

I may not understand your question.

Flexi-Training is only offered to med students and residents. It is dependent on the approval of your commander. Some states are very lax, and once every few months you punch in for a few hours on the weekend. Others expect you to be at every drill, though you can miss one if you are unavailable.

Flexi-Training is great and gives some much-needed flexibility to busy residents. There's no real downside, though you need to make sure you are earning enough points to be eligible for a "good year" for retirement. This isn't so important if you're not staying in, but it's VERY important if you're in STRAP and hoping to take HPLRP; if you don't qualify for a "good year" while on HPLRP, you don't get the money for that year.

 

[zubirix2k]

I may not understand your question.

Flexi-Training is only offered to med students and residents. It is dependent on the approval of your commander. Some states are very lax, and once every few months you punch in for a few hours on the weekend. Others expect you to be at every drill, though you can miss one if you are unavailable.

Flexi-Training is great and gives some much-needed flexibility to busy residents. There's no real downside, though you need to make sure you are earning enough points to be eligible for a "good year" for retirement. This isn't so important if you're not staying in, but it's VERY important if you're in STRAP and hoping to take HPLRP; if you don't qualify for a "good year" while on HPLRP, you don't get the money for that year.

Thanks for the info but I still need to figure out the whole resigning my commision if the situation is unberable. From my research it seems that it is kind of difficult but is granted in harship situations but I will remain in IRR.

I think that I need to contact somebody in JAG or another recruiter that really knows what they are talking about when it comes to seperation from the military.

 

[USCguy]

On the off-chance we still have some of the old-timers still on this thread, has anyone used the $2,500 CME allowance that we're supposedly eligible for once we're residents?

I met with my recruiter last week to go over my SF86, and all that other paperwork, and I brought up the $2,500 and if I would receive it during residency. He said he thought so, but would check on it. I haven't heard anything yet. I have personal subscriptions to a few journals, planning to get USMLEWorld for Step 3, and the new edition of Harrison's is due out in August, so I would like to get the guard to pay for this if possible, or at least tell me what kind of a trip I can take that they cover. Any links to info on this?

 

[notdeadyet]

Thanks for the info but I still need to figure out the whole resigning my commision if the situation is unberable. From my research it seems that it is kind of difficult but is granted in harship situations but I will remain in IRR.

You can definitely be granted an early release in the case of hardship. But "it's hard on my marriage" and "I don't have the time" does not constitute hardship to the Army. If you read over this forum long enough, the one thing you'll find is that many, many people are miserable in the military, many find it unbearable, and no one was given an early out. You need to literally be hurt, near crippled or dying. Leaving for reasons of dissatisfaction, professional concerns, and marital issues will not qualify.

I think that I need to contact somebody in JAG or another recruiter that really knows what they are talking about when it comes to seperation from the military.

Definitely talk to your recruiter about this. Not sure that anyone will give you access to JAG. If your recruiter says you can get out of your commitment early for some reason, make sure to get those reasons in a policy memo in writing. I'm personally uncomfortable with a recruiter who tells prospects they can get out early if they don't like it, because that's just something I've never seen or heard of.

Also consider posting a new thread on the forum asking others if they've heard of anyone who ended their military service before obligation was done. I think you'll find it's an extremely-rare-to-never event outside of the reasons mentioned above.

If you have lingering concerns you will find the Guard unbearable, I'd think long and hard about finding other ways to serve that do not involve such iron-clad commitments.

 

[notdeadyet]

I met with my recruiter last week to go over my SF86, and all that other paperwork, and I brought up the $2,500 and if I would receive it during residency. He said he thought so, but would check on it. I haven't heard anything yet. I have personal subscriptions to a few journals, planning to get USMLEWorld for Step 3, and the new edition of Harrison's is due out in August, so I would like to get the guard to pay for this if possible, or at least tell me what kind of a trip I can take that they cover. Any links to info on this?

Thanks for the info, USCguy. I don't have any links of substance, just references that the $2,500 is out there. The one thing I've noticed (and heard) is that the $2,500 is referred to as being for fees and travel involved in attending GME events. Some states may allow it for journals, equipment, and study aids, but all the written references I've seen talk about GME.

If I come across anything more substantial, I'll post it. Thanks for the info.

 

[infirmarydude]

I am reading a lot about people who are unhappy with their military commitment but it seems to me that it's mostly people in full time service and not generally national guard. Anyone here personally, or know of anyone, who was so unhappy with the national guard?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

I am reading a lot about people who are unhappy with their military commitment but it seems to me that it's mostly people in full time service and not generally national guard. Anyone here personally, or know of anyone, who was so unhappy with the national guard?

I know of 2 docs who had their 90 day desert vacations extended. One was 9 months in the sand, and the other was a full year. Neither was pleased. One separated from the .mil, and the other stuck it out. I also know a few who are still non-deployable and have decided to separate as soon as eligible. I haven't pressed them for their reasons. Overall, retention and satisfaction in the ARNG does seem much higher than our active duty soldier docs.

 

[militaryman]

I met with my recruiter last week to go over my SF86, and all that other paperwork, and I brought up the $2,500 and if I would receive it during residency. He said he thought so, but would check on it. I haven't heard anything yet. I have personal subscriptions to a few journals, planning to get USMLEWorld for Step 3, and the new edition of Harrison's is due out in August, so I would like to get the guard to pay for this if possible, or at least tell me what kind of a trip I can take that they cover. Any links to info on this?

I tried uploading the National Guard CME policy memo on SDN but the file was too large. Normally you can use it for one event only, such as a conference, and not for multiple events such as journal articles, dea license, state license, etc.

The memo is titled "NGB-ARS FY10-11 Continuing Medical Education Program Mangement and Execution." Goggle the memo title and you should find the policy. The newest policy I have seen is from 5 Feb 2010.

 

[jkmph]

Regarding the changes for the MDSSP commitment, can anyone comment on whether these apply to the air guard as well? I'm pretty close to accepting a commission in the army guard, but this change is a huge turnoff...

 

[infirmarydude]

Regarding the changes for the MDSSP commitment, can anyone comment on whether these apply to the air guard as well? I'm pretty close to accepting a commission in the army guard, but this change is a huge turnoff...

Same boat here... But I'm thinking of still doing guard but without incentives. You still make money drilling, 4500 FTA, and the HPLRP is great. Also always wanted to join cuz I wanted to.

 

[jkmph]

Same boat here... But I'm thinking of still doing guard but without incentives. You still make money drilling, 4500 FTA, and the HPLRP is great. Also always wanted to join cuz I wanted to.

Agreed, but if that change doesn't apply to air guard, I'll probably switch. Had a buddy from high school spend 45 minutes last night telling me I was an idiot for going army guard over air guard haha...

 

[notdeadyet]

Make sure you all get the Air Guard stuff in writing via policy memo rather than just the word of the recruiter. And prepare for hemming and hawing; the ANG seems to share little in the way of paper.

Although the Air Force seems to spend a boatload on recruiting, the Air Guard has always been a nightmare trying to get anything out of in writing. I actually tried to set up some relationships with Air Force counterparts, figuring I could send folks their way if the Army wasn't the right fit for some reason and I got nothing but tumbleweeds.

 

[notdeadyet]

militaryman- thanks for the post. That jibes with what I'd heard and read- The $2,500 is for CME.

 

[Imagainstthis]

On the topic:
if I take MDSSP MS 3-4 and then STRAP year 3-4 (so I can get HPLRP) will the two years of STRAP make the two years of MDSSP into 1:1 or does that only work if I take them all the years?

Here's a challenge for you Notdeadyet and anyone else with accurate knowledge on the subjects.

1) what is the answer to infirmarydude's post? See above

2) if I wanted to do a year of research abroad (Europe) between MS II and MSIII how would I do that? (not taking MDSSP. Just regular old guard) can you take a leave of absence and tack it on later?

3) can I do a residency at McGill in Canada and still be in the guard? Say new yorks guard or vermonts?

4) and finally if one isn't accepting MDSSP can a med student sign a national guard contract for anything other than 6 years drill 2 years irr? Can you do 8 years drill? 2years drill, six years irr? 4 years drill, 4 years irr?

Thanks for all the accurate info so far. Extremely extremely helpful.

* username has nothing to do with us military.

 

[notdeadyet]

1) what is the answer to infirmarydude's post? See above

if I take MDSSP MS 3-4 and then STRAP year 3-4 (so I can get HPLRP) will the two years of STRAP make the two years of MDSSP into 1:1 or does that only work if I take them all the years?

Infirmarydude- not sure how I missed this one. Apologies...

You take MDSSP for MS 3-4, then go to plain old drilling status PGY1-2, then go to STRAP on PGY 3-4.

The policy is a little vague on this, in a way that benefits the soldier. The policy language talks about "STRAP program following MDSSP program" and MDSSP participants who enter into a "subsequent agreement under the STRAP." There is no mention that I can see requiring the "subsequent" STRAP to be immediately after.

One thing to note, the policy is clear on the fact that MDSSP is converted from 2:1 to 1:1 based on how many years you take STRAP. So if you have four years of MDSSP and three years of STRAP, you will have 11 years of drilling after residency (3 years of MDSSP at 1:1, 1 year of MDSSP at 2:1, and 3 years of STRAP at 2:1). Make sense?

So unless there's a change to policy, the way it would go for the example outlined by infirmarydude would be:

1. Join NG as MS 3.
2. Take MDSSP MS 3-4. You have now incurred 4 years drilling service to be completed after residency.
3. Complete PGY 1-2.
4. Take STRAP PGY3-4. You have now incurred 6 years drilling service to be completed after residency (2 years of MDSSP at 1:1 and 2 years of STRAP at 2:1).
5. Drilling status for six years after residency.

That said, if anyone were to go this path, they should clarify this with their recruiter and get it in writing. The policy memo doesn't forbid a break between MDSSP and STRAP, but it also doesn't specifically discuss it.

 

[notdeadyet]

2) if I wanted to do a year of research abroad (Europe) between MS II and MSIII how would I do that? (not taking MDSSP. Just regular old guard) can you take a leave of absence and tack it on later?

If you are in regular drilling status, you can switch to Inactive National Guard (ING). During this time, you will not be burning off any obligation, you will not incur time-in-grade towards your next promotion.

Switching to ING will be dependent on your chain-of-command, however. If you're planning on taking a year out to go out of the country, run it by your recruiter and make sure it's not a deal-killer.

3) can I do a residency at McGill in Canada and still be in the guard? Say new yorks guard or vermonts?

Check with your recruiter. I know of certain units in which there have been folks drilling from Canada, but I don't know how far away their unit was. I think you'd be ineligible for STRAP in Canada, but again, you'd need to check with your recruiter on this.

4) and finally if one isn't accepting MDSSP can a med student sign a national guard contract for anything other than 6 years drill 2 years irr? Can you do 8 years drill? 2years drill, six years irr? 4 years drill, 4 years irr?

Any newly commissioned officers in the National Guard sign an 8 year military service obligation (MSO) before they can resign. Of this 8 year MSO, at least 6 years must be in drilling status. You can definitely do 8 years drilling (or 10 or 12...). You could not do 2 years drilling then 6 years IRR.

There's a theoretical possibility that they could sign you up for a special contract in which you did less than 6 years drilling, but given that the Guard has never been more desperate for docs and they haven't started up such a program, I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[infirmarydude]

Infirmarydude- not sure how I missed this one. Apologies...


So unless there's a change to policy, the way it would go for the example outlined by infirmarydude would be:

1. Join NG as MS 3.
2. Take MDSSP MS 3-4. You have now incurred 4 years drilling service to be completed after residency.
3. Complete PGY 1-2.
4. Take STRAP PGY3-4. You have now incurred 6 years drilling service to be completed after residency (2 years of MDSSP at 1:1 and 2 years of STRAP at 2:1).
5. Drilling status for six years after residency.

That said, if anyone were to go this path, they should clarify this with their recruiter and get it in writing. The policy memo doesn't forbid a break between MDSSP and STRAP, but it also doesn't specifically discuss it.

No worries and thanks it does make sense.... But will I be able to take HPLRP if I only take STRAP during 3-4 or 4-5 and not the whole time?

Thanks

 

[Imagainstthis]

mad props notdeadyet. thanks for the info! extremely helpful and really really appreciate the speedy reply.

 

[notdeadyet]

No worries and thanks it does make sense.... But will I be able to take HPLRP if I only take STRAP during 3-4 or 4-5 and not the whole time?

Nothing in the policy memo indicates that you'd need to take STRAP for the entire residency. The only language related to dual enrollment indicates that you can't take HPLRP until you are a PGY-3, enrolled in a critical warfare shortage list specialty, and taking STRAP. No mention of needing to be taking STRAP all four or five years.

 

[Handsome1]

When you talk about the policy of the program...which contract is signed? Do you still sign the standard form that all officers joining the military sign that you serve at the pleasure of the President/can be activated at any time? How do all the policies and protections of this program fit in and what happens if they are changed later?

 

[infirmarydude]

When you talk about the policy of the program...which contract is signed? Do you still sign the standard form that all officers joining the military sign that you serve at the pleasure of the President/can be activated at any time? How do all the policies and protections of this program fit in and what happens if they are changed later?

Great question. As notdeadyet summed it up.. The contract for the army is shorter than the lease to your car. The contract provides very little details besides for commitment like you said

However as a med student will be commissioned as 00E67 (or something similar) and will be assigned to a nondeployable unit. By law you are NOT deployable until after residency. There are things called policy memos which protect you from deployment th duration of residency.. These are not likely to change however they can possibly if needed.

You can read through pages 57-58 in this thread which is where we discussed this exact topic.

Good luck and feel free to ask anything and read this thread for a wealth of info.

 

[Carpal]

Hey, this thread seems like an incredible wealth of information, but where do I begin to start? The very beginning seems like it might be outdated, and recent posts don't seem to apply to what I'm looking up. I'm going to do med school, and I've been thinking about the National Guard. With all the benefits it seemed great, and being in med school I won't be deployed and messed up with schooling. I am very uneducated on the entire thing and don't know where to begin to understand more. I don't want to make an entire career out of the national guard, either. What would drilling be like for the years I owe if I did STRAP and MDSSP? Sorry if this post is very out of place.

 

[Handsome1]

Thanks for the reply. I read those posts and I just wanted to make sure I understand this.

The contract signed is universal. It's the policy memo that puts your protection in writing. Is this signed by both parties?

My concern is that you have signed a document saying you can be mobilized at any time and you serve where president tells you at any time etc... If they change the policy, drop your specialty from the critical needs list etc... You have signed a document stating a full desire to serve basically in any capacity. What protections do you have against them changing the policies? I am a resident and I want to serve just a deployment or forced drilling would be an utter disaster in a program like this one, especially a deployment.