Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

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This was on the NY ANG web site. It give a lot of useful information about the MDSSP and STRAP programs. I am interested either doing the ASR or MDSSP program, haven't decided which one yet though.
The NY site is a great source of information.

I think for a lot of folks, the smart choice would be to apply to ASR and keep MDSSP as an option should you change your mind or the program become unavailable.
 
This was on the NY ANG web site. It give a lot of useful information about the MDSSP and STRAP programs. I am interested either doing the ASR or MDSSP program, haven't decided which one yet though.

http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/arng/ocs/med_benefits.pdf

more info from same site.

http://dmna.state.ny.us/arng/ocs/amedd_incentives_program_guidance.pdf

They are also advertising the ASR program, but I haven't found any specifics yet.

If you have a choice...ASR is a no-brainer winner.
 
Hi guys,

Well this thread has certainly expanded since I was last here a few months ago. I think I made it through the first 16 pages or so, and now it's become a novel.

In fact, I came on here, because I had decided at this point that I wanted to join the ASR program. Now I see that it is full. Previously I wasn't sure what school I was attending, but now I know I will attend AZCOM - a D.O. school in Arizona this August. I was hoping to join the ASR by this December/January, as I have to lose some more weight first to qualify. I was reading though this page, and see that there may be more openings Oct 1st. So I think I should kick start my weight loss program, so I can meet physical requirements and get in my application on October 1st. Would this work? Or does it mean that one should submit the application months in advance for the October 1st start? I'm not sure if there is an Arizona recruiter who is aware of the details of this program.

If the ASR program goes away, what implications does that have for those already accepted? Do they lose their benefits, or do only new people not get benefits, but the current members continue to receive what they were told they'd get? That makes me somewhat uncomfortable, as even if I am lucky to get into ASR, I wouldn't know if the terms would change on their own.

Does the air force have a similar ASR program? Before I knew anything about army ASR, a few people suggested that I should apply to the air force, though I don't know much about the differences between various branches of military, as I have no military background.
 
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right now there is a waiting list of about 50 (?), with 40 people expected to come off of it next year. nobody knows if this will be faster if new slots opens up.

I'm currently on the waitlist for the ASR program. If the ASR program goes away, I assume the MDSSP program will still be there and will be available as an option, so I felt comfortable knowing that. Nobody knows what will happen if the ASR program goes away, but it seems like those in the program will have the option to get out of their commitment.

The AF (guard I assume you're talking about) does not have a similar ASR program - though you can sign up and drill with them and get paid for drills.
 
At this point, those interested in ASR should be applying ASAP - you'll be put in the queue for a slot, and no guarantee for when you'd actually start ASR. You'd have to pass MEPS for weight/height guidelines before you could get put in the queue.
 
The AF doesn't even have a stipend program.
 
In fact, I came on here, because I had decided at this point that I wanted to join the ASR program. Now I see that it is full.
Yes. There are 200 slots per year and those 200 slots filled by the spring.
So I think I should kick start my weight loss program, so I can meet physical requirements and get in my application on October 1st. Would this work? Or does it mean that one should submit the application months in advance for the October 1st start?
For an October 1st start, your application needs to be complete before September 1st. Complete means you've finished MEPS, sworn in and been approved for the program. This can be done in as little as a few months or in as many as 8-12 months (if you have health or legal issues that require a waiver). If you just start your application packet now, you have a shot at getting done in time, but you should realistically plan on starting January 1st, spots permitting.
I'm not sure if there is an Arizona recruiter who is aware of the details of this program.
There are AMEDD Recruiters in every state. If no one knows one in Arizona on this thread, you can go to the Guard website and find one in your state.
If the ASR program goes away, what implications does that have for those already accepted?
For those already in ASR, if the funding goes away for our positions, we are allowed to resign our commissions.
Do they lose their benefits, or do only new people not get benefits, but the current members continue to receive what they were told they'd get?
They could close the program to new applicants or they could cancel it entirely. Hard to say which they'd do, since the Guard hasn't actually officially communicated doing either. See the post above. The rumors run from the program being scrapped to expanded. I wouldn't take
That makes me somewhat uncomfortable, as even if I am lucky to get into ASR, I wouldn't know if the terms would change on their own.
If you get in the program, you can resign if it is cancelled. It's in writing. If you go through the thread, you'll find the long PDF program description that has the language.
Does the air force have a similar ASR program?
No, it doesn't. The Air National Guard doesn't, nor does any active branch of the U.S. Military. Only the Army National Guard has ASR and (in my admittedly biased opinion) it's far and away the best game in town for medical students interested in serving.
 
right now there is a waiting list of about 50 (?), with 40 people expected to come off of it next year. nobody knows if this will be faster if new slots opens up.
Again, officially right now, there is a waiting list of 50 people who are hoping for a 1 October start when the 200 slots open up. The idea of new slots opening up only when folks leave (like the 40 mentioned) is something talked about on this thread, but not mentioned anywhere in writing. Rumor.
I'm currently on the waitlist for the ASR program. If the ASR program goes away, I assume the MDSSP program will still be there and will be available as an option, so I felt comfortable knowing that.
That's a safe assumption. The ASR program was mentioned as taking 200 folks/year for three years. This upcoming fiscal year would be the third year. MDSSP is a permanent program, so I'd be shocked if anything ever happened to that. MDSSP and STRAP both recruit more doctors into the National Guard than ASR does.
 
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If you have a choice...ASR is a no-brainer winner.

I agree, but since the future of that program is yet to be determined, I will keep the MDSSP in my back pocket (and the ability to use STRAP in residency is nice).
 
I agree, but since the future of that program is yet to be determined, I will keep the MDSSP in my back pocket (and the ability to use STRAP in residency is nice).
But do keep in mind that if you take MDSSP plus STRAP (assuming a three year residency), you're looking at 10 years drilling in the Guard after you graduate. That's a very, very big commitment.
 
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Thanks very much Eflix and Notdeadyet for answering my questions! It makes sense that January 1st would be the most feasible start date for me, if spots are still available. It seems the best thing I can do for myself right now is to get in physical shape, and then see what is available as soon as I'm ready to qualify for the fitness test in a few months. Does anyone know where I can find more information about MDSSP and what it is?

PS~ Notdeadyet, it seems on your post #1608, you attached my name to Eflix's quote. No big issue, but thought I'd mention it.
 
It seems the best thing I can do for myself right now is to get in physical shape, and then see what is available as soon as I'm ready to qualify for the fitness test in a few months.
Best of luck. By "fitness test", you're talking height/weight requirements, right? There are no pushups or anything like that awaiting you at MEPS.
Does anyone know where I can find more information about MDSSP and what it is?
Read the post on page 33 from AliceNWndrlnd with the links to the NY site. One of them is the amedd_incentives_program_guidence that has the actual memo describing the nuts and bolts of all of the programs. MDSSP is mentioned on Page 9.

You get a monthly stipend (I think $1900/mo). In exchange, you owe the Guard 2 years of drilling for every 1 year of financial support. So four years of medical school = 8 years of drilling time, and the tock starts clicking after you complete med school. Also, you are required to drill while in med school as well. This may be enforced somewhat spottily like drilling in ASR is. I don't know.
PS~ Notdeadyet, it seems on your post #1608, you attached my name to Eflix's quote. No big issue, but thought I'd mention it.
Sorry about that. Doing too many things at once. I corrected it.
 
After you graduate med school or residency?
It works like this: It's 2:1 commitment for MDSSP or STRAP in exchange for the monthly stipend (you owe two years for every year you take the stipend). While you are taking the stipend, you are drilling. You start payback after your stipend ends.

So if you take 4 years of MDSSP in med school, you drill through med school, then start paying back your 8 years of drilling once you graduate med school. Some of that time while in residency, some after.

If you take 3 years of STRAP while in residency (but took nothing in med school), you'd drill through residency, then start paying back 6 years of drilling after you are done with residency.

But if you BOTH MDSSP and STRAP, then MDSSP becomes a 1:1 commitment. So if you took 4 years of MDSSP during med school and then did 5 years of STRAP during your radiology residency, you'd owe 4 years of drilling for MDSSP and 10 years of drilling for STRAP. You would drill throughout med school and residency and start your obligation payback of 14 years after finishing residency.

On the downside, this means that if you do MDSSP for 4 years and STRAP for 4 years, you are going to be drilling for a total of 20 years. On the upside, this means that when you're done with your obligation, you can retire!
 
I don't get STRAP. Why take this during residency if you are already getting paid and loans are deferred? I can see MDSSP bcuz you need it to live, but putting that much of extension onto your overall committment just to have extra money, when you really don't even have time to spend it...

Am I missing something?
 
I don't get STRAP. Why take this during residency if you are already getting paid and loans are deferred?
Well, for one thing, loan deferment goes away this year.

STRAP, MDSSP, and ASR are all based on the same idea: give the candidate a bit of money now for a bit of service later.
I can see MDSSP bcuz you need it to live, but putting that much of extension onto your overall committment just to have extra money, when you really don't even have time to spend it...
MDSSP doesn't make any more or less sense than STRAP. You don't need money in med school any more than in residency. If you take the loans offered, you'll have enough to live on. The only time it's not enough is if you have kids and a non-working spouse, in which case your resident salary probably isn't enough either.

Any way you cut it, none of the commitment-based military programs make sense if you look at it from a purely financial point of view. The potential for lost income later dwarfs short-term income now. But they're great programs, including STRAP, for folks who know they want to participate in military service and get some cash for saying so.
 
Well, for one thing, loan deferment goes away this year.

STRAP, MDSSP, and ASR are all based on the same idea: give the candidate a bit of money now for a bit of service later.

MDSSP doesn't make any more or less sense than STRAP. You don't need money in med school any more than in residency. If you take the loans offered, you'll have enough to live on. The only time it's not enough is if you have kids and a non-working spouse, in which case your resident salary probably isn't enough either.

Any way you cut it, none of the commitment-based military programs make sense if you look at it from a purely financial point of view. The potential for lost income later dwarfs short-term income now. But they're great programs, including STRAP, for folks who know they want to participate in military service and get some cash for saying so.

Are there any hard facts or sources on the "no more deferrments" rumor? I'm not saying that whay your saying is not true, I just have never heard it any way but a rumor.

Some folks are coming out of med school owing 300K....this would be a payment of approaching 2500 dollars a month. If your residency stipend only pays you 2200 what do you do? I find it hard to believe that deferrment for med residents is just "going away". You'd have thousands of residents defaulting every month...
 
Are there any hard facts or sources on the "no more deferrments" rumor? I'm not saying that whay your saying is not true, I just have never heard it any way but a rumor.
Google medical resident deferment 2009 and you'll see all the links you need. It's fact and it's affecting all residents beginning with the new years starting in the next couple of weeks.
Some folks are coming out of med school owing 300K....this would be a payment of approaching 2500 dollars a month.
If your residency stipend only pays you 2200 what do you do? I find it hard to believe that deferrment for med residents is just "going away". You'd have thousands of residents defaulting every month...
Under the old laws, the deferment was based on a debt to income ratio that went away. Now it's based on hardship alone, which is capped at about $16K/year, so residents don't qualify.

So now there's an income-based repayment program in which their loan payments are capped at 15% of their income if their income is not above 150% over the poverty line for their family size. So the example used is that if you earn $45K/year as a resident, you will be required to make monthly payments of $365. But when your take home is somewhere around $2,600/mo, that pinches.
 
Google medical resident deferment 2009 and you'll see all the links you need. It's fact and it's affecting all residents beginning with the new years starting in the next couple of weeks.

Under the old laws, the deferment was based on a debt to income ratio that went away. Now it's based on hardship alone, which is capped at about $16K/year, so residents don't qualify.

So now there's an income-based repayment program in which their loan payments are capped at 15% of their income if their income is not above 150% over the poverty line for their family size. So the example used is that if you earn $45K/year as a resident, you will be required to make monthly payments of $365. But when your take home is somewhere around $2,600/mo, that pinches.

Wow, that really sucks. I just can't see them changing this back to deferment later on...it is going to be a real hardship.

In the example you have if the FPL is 14,000 then 150% would be 35K..so 45K is above the 150%...what happens then?
 
Wow, that really sucks. I just can't see them changing this back to deferment later on...it is going to be a real hardship.
I haven't heard any mention of this being temporary. Plan for it to stick.
In the example you have if the FPL is 14,000 then 150% would be 35K..so 45K is above the 150%...what happens then?
Google it if you're interested. I'm not a resident, so I haven't looked into it too much. But all the residents I've spoken to have talked about the $350-$380 they now need to pay back. I haven't heard anyone mention anything more than that, so I wouldn't sweat it.
 
I haven't heard any mention of this being temporary. Plan for it to stick.

Google it if you're interested. I'm not a resident, so I haven't looked into it too much. But all the residents I've spoken to have talked about the $350-$380 they now need to pay back. I haven't heard anyone mention anything more than that, so I wouldn't sweat it.

Looks like the income based repayment gig is changing come July 1st. This new program has a twist......Public service. You can have IBR and if you work in the public service, the rest of your loans are FORGIVEN AFTER 10 YEARS. there are a lot of different angles, I am sure. I just have not had that much time, so I thought I would throw it out there for all of you folks. Even though this is not related to ASR, I thought I would mention it...

Also, I believe every residency qualifies as public service because they are usually 503b companies. Additionally, if you work as a hospitalist, ER doc or hospital owned practice that is non profit, you could have IBR for 10 years and the rest of your debt is forgiven.

Here is the link. Take a look....maybe a new thread is worthwhile??

http://www.ibrinfo.org/index.php
 
Looks like the income based repayment gig is changing come July 1st. This new program has a twist......Public service. You can have IBR and if you work in the public service, the rest of your loans are FORGIVEN AFTER 10 YEARS. there are a lot of different angles, I am sure. I just have not had that much time, so I thought I would throw it out there for all of you folks. Even though this is not related to ASR, I thought I would mention it...

Also, I believe every residency qualifies as public service because they are usually 503b companies. Additionally, if you work as a hospitalist, ER doc or hospital owned practice that is non profit, you could have IBR for 10 years and the rest of your debt is forgiven.

Here is the link. Take a look....maybe a new thread is worthwhile??

http://www.ibrinfo.org/index.php

Punkie so your saying if I do a 4 year DO EM residency and then work for any non-profit hospital/ER, etc. that my 260K debt could be wiped 6 years post residency? Wow. Well, I'm sure once the beaurocrats get ahold of this.....bye bye. Remember, docs always get screwed, no matter what.
 
Looks like the income based repayment gig is changing come July 1st. This new program has a twist......Public service. You can have IBR and if you work in the public service, the rest of your loans are FORGIVEN AFTER 10 YEARS.
This has been kicked around in a lot of forums around SDN for the past year. It works great for some, it's a money suck for others, and it has an element of risk. A few folks have calculated that if you go into a decent paying specialty after residency, you end up paying a lot more with that program than you would with a flat fee.

It also begs the question that if the program gets cut, you're left with a whole lot of interest on unpaid loans hanging over your head.

Do a general search and you might find folks' thoughts on it who put a lot more time looking into it than I did.
 
Punkie so your saying if I do a 4 year DO EM residency and then work for any non-profit hospital/ER, etc. that my 260K debt could be wiped 6 years post residency? Wow.
It's income based. If you, for example, earn $200k/year and have $200K in debt, you'll end up paying about $2,800/mo or $276K. If you make less, it's a better deal, if you make more it's a worse deal.
Well, I'm sure once the beaurocrats get ahold of this.....bye bye. Remember, docs always get screwed, no matter what.
Doctors slid in through a loophole. It's meant to get folks to go into teaching, social work, and other career paths in which you take out large loans to get lots of education to make peanuts. Doctors weren't who they had in mind.

If they zipped up the loophole and put a salary cap on it, I'd have no problems with that. It's not intended for us.
 
Here is my plan if I do not get into the Guard prior to this years enrollment deadline.

Say you owe 200K coming out of residency in say Family Practice.

Go into the Guard and get their Physician bonus of 25K per year for 3 year committment. Also get the loan repayment for 50K for the same 3 years.

Thats 125K from the Guard towards loans.

Apply for and work for the NHSC w/ loan repayment option @ 25K per year for 2 years w/ option to extend one year you have fulfilled your 2 year committment.

That's 75K from NHSC.

200K of loans repayed in 3 years. And if you kicked in 20K per year of your own money you could pay off 275K total in 3 years. You would have to live poor for those 3 years, but you wouldnt be living under a bridge. Everything after that is gravy.
 
Go into the Guard and get their Physician bonus of 25K per year for 3 year committment. Also get the loan repayment for 50K for the same 3 years.
According to someone who posted before (I think it iatrosB), you can not take Special Pay Bonus and HPLRP at the same time. So you'd be looking at six years in the Guard post-residency. Which is cool, since when you swear in as an officer, you have to sign an 8 year contract anyway.

Someone also posted about NHSC and you should be able to do that concurrently with the Guard as well, though you'd want to read the fine print in the NHSC contract about what happens to that bonus should you get deployed for four months in the midst of your two year NHSC commitment.
 
It's income based. If you, for example, earn $200k/year and have $200K in debt, you'll end up paying about $2,800/mo or $276K. If you make less, it's a better deal, if you make more it's a worse deal.

Doctors slid in through a loophole. It's meant to get folks to go into teaching, social work, and other career paths in which you take out large loans to get lots of education to make peanuts. Doctors weren't who they had in mind.

If they zipped up the loophole and put a salary cap on it, I'd have no problems with that. It's not intended for us.

I would have to agree here. This program came up because my wife is a teacher and just finishing up her masters. With her undergrad loans and masters loans she ends up paying like $400-$500 per month. If she were single there is no way a teacher can make it after paying loans and living expenses starting out at like 35k, This is a great program for teachers or folks in similar situations that want to work in the public sector
 
According to someone who posted before (I think it iatrosB), you can not take Special Pay Bonus and HPLRP at the same time. So you'd be looking at six years in the Guard post-residency. Which is cool, since when you swear in as an officer, you have to sign an 8 year contract anyway.

Someone also posted about NHSC and you should be able to do that concurrently with the Guard as well, though you'd want to read the fine print in the NHSC contract about what happens to that bonus should you get deployed for four months in the midst of your two year NHSC commitment.

NotDead, I'm certainly no expert but a couple of things...

The site is ambiguous as to whether you can take Special Pay Bonus and HPLRP but it does say that you may be eligible for all of them...
It also refers several times to a 3 year committment, even going as far as to say...if you sign up for "another 3 year commitment" yada yada. I have heard the "8 years or nothing" but not from any credible source the site seems definitive. When you say 8 year contract is that to say you can do 3 drilling and 5 in IRR? So what does it mean when you sign up for "another 3 year committment"? I don't know....

source: http://www.nationalguard.com/explore/medical/hpb.php

I have looked into the NHSC details and if you read this document, specifically page 18 and on:

http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/loanrepayment/nhsclrpaib.pdf

It says you may not have any other service obligation but explicitly excludes member of reserve components or the National Guard. It also makes provisions for you if you are deployed. You cannot lose your position under the Soldiers and Sailors act, and your time while active does not count as re-payment to NHSC, so you will basically have to pick up where you left off......no big deal.

In your post you mention being deployed for 4 months....I was under the impression that all Guard physicians were under the "90 days boots on the ground" deployment rules. Is this not true?
 
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The site is ambiguous as to whether you can take Special Pay Bonus and HPLRP but it does say that you may be eligible for all of them...
Sure, you're eligible for both of them. It's just a question of whether or not you can take them concurrently.
It also refers several times to a 3 year committment, even going as far as to say...if you sign up for "another 3 year commitment" yada yada. I have heard the "8 years or nothing" but not from any credible source the site seems definitive.
The 8 year thing is set in stone. Anyone who is commissioned agrees to serve for eight years.

The question is how much of that 8 years you must spend in active duty (if you're active side) or drilling duty (if you're in the Guard).
When you say 8 year contract is that to say you can do 3 drilling and 5 in IRR?
All newly commissioned Guard offers spend a minimum of six years in drilling status, the other two can be IRR. I don't think they make exceptions to this, unless you're prior service and have already done six years or somesuch (I half listened to that part, because I'm not prior).

Glad to hear NHSC is cool about the Guard thing.
In your post you mention being deployed for 4 months....I was under the impression that all Guard physicians were under the "90 days boots on the ground" deployment rules. Is this not true?
"90 days boots on sand". Meaning you're physically in Iraq, or Afghanistan, for 90 days. This does not count for pre-/post-deployment duties, which can last up to 30 more days.

And I wouldn't call it a deployment "rule". It's more of a guideline, really. It's a policy that is not in anyone's contract.
 
Huh...that's all good info thanks. I just wonder why they refer to the 3 year committment on the site.
 
Huh...that's all good info thanks. I just wonder why they refer to the 3 year committment on the site.
Take me for example. I'll be done with my drilling duties by 2015, right about when I finish residency. If I decide to take the Special Pay Bonus, I've committed myself to three more years.

When they talk about how long you have to commit for any program they put on their website, it doesn't over-ride the minimum you sign up for when you join the Guard.
 
NotDead, I'm certainly no expert but a couple of things...

The site is ambiguous as to whether you can take Special Pay Bonus and HPLRP but it does say that you may be eligible for all of them...

From the operating instructions found here http://dmna.state.ny.us/arng/ocs/amedd_incentives_program_guidance.pdf

7. Special Pay.
b. The following qualifications apply to certain specialties:
((2) If the applicant initially received the special pay at the time of accession, he orshe is eligible for the special pay for retention purposes. Special pay may not
offered again until the receiving individual has fulfilled any remaining service obligations from other incentives previously executed.

12. Dual participation in both HPLR and Special Pay programs.
a. Special Pay and HPLR may be offered and contracted at the same time, in either order. However, payments and the payback time will be consecutive.

b. Applicants must meet the requirements listed in paragraphs 6 (HPLR) and 7
(Special Pay
Example: A
Physician Assistant (65D) joins a MTOE unit for the HPLR and Special Pay. The
service member signs the Healthcare Professional Bonus Addendum for 3 years at $10,000 per year and the HPLR for 3 years and chooses to receive the HPLR first. The service member will have the first payment made (up to $20,000) 1 year from date of contract (anniversary date). The second payment, up to $20,000, will be paid at the end of second year. The third payment will be the lesser of the remaining amount of the loan or the remaining portion of the $50,000 total eligibility. At the beginning of the fourth year, eligibility for Special Pay starts with anniversary payments of $10,000 (less tax) for years 4, 5, and 6. Regardless of the critical shortage list at the time the Special Pay starts, the applicant had to be eligible when both incentives were contracted. The gross amount to the applicant is $80,000. The net contractual obligation is 6 years.

So you can not be payed both incentives at the same time. sorry
 
Hi,

I am starting medical school this fall and have already been commissioned into the National Guard and I am also on the ASR waiting list. I was looking at next year's (2010) OBLC dates and unfortunately all of the dates fall within my school's academic terms. The summer course starts on 19 August,2010 and ends on 14 September, 2010. My school's fall quarter starts at the end of August which means that if I go to the course, I will miss over two weeks of classes. I have already talked with someone in my schools administration and they say it will be very difficult to make up two weeks worth of classes.

It is my understanding that for the ASR and other National Guard programs, one has to complete OBLC within the first two or three years of being commissioned.

Are any of you having any problems with scheduling your OBLC dates or do you have any advice for me on this issue?

Thanks.
 
Hi,

I am starting medical school this fall and have already been commissioned into the National Guard and I am also on the ASR waiting list. I was looking at next year's (2010) OBLC dates and unfortunately all of the dates fall within my school's academic terms. The summer course starts on 19 August,2010 and ends on 14 September, 2010. My school's fall quarter starts at the end of August which means that if I go to the course, I will miss over two weeks of classes. I have already talked with someone in my schools administration and they say it will be very difficult to make up two weeks worth of classes.

It is my understanding that for the ASR and other National Guard programs, one has to complete OBLC within the first two or three years of being commissioned.

Are any of you having any problems with scheduling your OBLC dates or do you have any advice for me on this issue?

Thanks.


There was already some talk on this subject. There will be a session during the summer months (June and July). They just dont know when yet. So u should be set!
 
DoctaJMa,

Thank You for your reply. Do you have any other information (i.e starting and ending dates) about this course? My unit checked ATTRS this morning and the following are the only courses scheduled:

3651947776
 
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From the operating instructions found here http://dmna.state.ny.us/arng/ocs/amedd_incentives_program_guidance.pdf

7. Special Pay.
b. The following qualifications apply to certain specialties:
((2) If the applicant initially received the special pay at the time of accession, he orshe is eligible for the special pay for retention purposes. Special pay may not
offered again until the receiving individual has fulfilled any remaining service obligations from other incentives previously executed.

12. Dual participation in both HPLR and Special Pay programs.
a. Special Pay and HPLR may be offered and contracted at the same time, in either order. However, payments and the payback time will be consecutive.

b. Applicants must meet the requirements listed in paragraphs 6 (HPLR) and 7
(Special Pay
Example: A
Physician Assistant (65D) joins a MTOE unit for the HPLR and Special Pay. The
service member signs the Healthcare Professional Bonus Addendum for 3 years at $10,000 per year and the HPLR for 3 years and chooses to receive the HPLR first. The service member will have the first payment made (up to $20,000) 1 year from date of contract (anniversary date). The second payment, up to $20,000, will be paid at the end of second year. The third payment will be the lesser of the remaining amount of the loan or the remaining portion of the $50,000 total eligibility. At the beginning of the fourth year, eligibility for Special Pay starts with anniversary payments of $10,000 (less tax) for years 4, 5, and 6. Regardless of the critical shortage list at the time the Special Pay starts, the applicant had to be eligible when both incentives were contracted. The gross amount to the applicant is $80,000. The net contractual obligation is 6 years.

So you can not be payed both incentives at the same time. sorry

Thanks for clearing that up...I still think it's is a good deal for going in after residency. It is a guaranteed 125K for your 8 year committment. If you combined that with maybe 15K/year of your own money and 2 years in the NHSC you could be debt free in a reasonable amt. of time.
 
Thanks for clearing that up...I still think it's is a good deal for going in after residency. It is a guaranteed 125K for your 8 year committment. If you combined that with maybe 15K/year of your own money and 2 years in the NHSC you could be debt free in a reasonable amt. of time.

Agreed...but remember, all the loan repayment crap is taxed...you get like 65-70% of it...factor that in your calculations.
 


Im not sure as to the date yet. However, my guess is they are trying to schedule the HPSP/USUHS first because it is six weeks long (I will be going next summer). Then once they have that set, they will probably schedule the NG training. This year they have the HPSP/USUHS training from around June 17th to the end of July sometime. Your training would prolly be before or after this training.

I want to say this is only a GUESS. I could be completely wrong even though it makes sense. Hope this helps.
 
Hi,

I am starting medical school this fall and have already been commissioned into the National Guard and I am also on the ASR waiting list. I was looking at next year's (2010) OBLC dates and unfortunately all of the dates fall within my school's academic terms. The summer course starts on 19 August,2010 and ends on 14 September, 2010. My school's fall quarter starts at the end of August which means that if I go to the course, I will miss over two weeks of classes. I have already talked with someone in my schools administration and they say it will be very difficult to make up two weeks worth of classes.

It is my understanding that for the ASR and other National Guard programs, one has to complete OBLC within the first two or three years of being commissioned.

Are any of you having any problems with scheduling your OBLC dates or do you have any advice for me on this issue?

Thanks.

I am in the same boat, or humvee if you will.

I start ADOS orders 7/1 and was not able to make it into OBC this year. I tried everything and pushed hard, even talking with my recruiter on Friday to still try to get me into OBC that starts tomorrow, but had no luck. Additionally, I am starting school next month and will go year round for three years and maybe right into residency, so I was a bit concerned as well. My recruiter said ASRs have until three years after residency to do OBC?? Not sure if this is totally true but that would mean (although I plan to stay in long term) I could be out before I am in???

Check with your recruiter, but I would not worry too much, though if you can get into OBC within 18 months you can get promoted to 1LT after 18 months, otherwise, like me, you will haveto wait until graduation.
 
punkiedad- you don't get any 4th year electives? Even my school, which is pretty rough on 4th year requirements, is letting me take 4 weeks as an elective.
 
punkiedad- you don't get any 4th year electives? Even my school, which is pretty rough on 4th year requirements, is letting me take 4 weeks as an elective.

Am in (hopefully but will not know for sure till october) the same pathway as Amindwalker....PCSP at LECOM Erie. 4 years of med school tucked into three years. Not that bad though have heard it is tough on boards. Normal medschool is like a 38 month curriculum plus electives. LECOM's PCSP pathway gets you done in 36 months by mot having any time off (literally almost nothing even during holidays) and you lose a couple electives all for agreeing to stay in primary care for at least 5 years. for someone like me that is focused on PC, and having worked for 15 years so I will not miss summers, it is a perfect gig, except for fitting in OBC🙄
 
The 8 year thing is set in stone. Anyone who is commissioned agrees to serve for eight years.

The question is how much of that 8 years you must spend in active duty (if you're active side) or drilling duty (if you're in the Guard).

All newly commissioned Guard offers spend a minimum of six years in drilling status, the other two can be IRR.

Question for you guys...

I think you might have been discussing this in the post above, but I'm not sure. I'm about to start my 3rd year of med school. If I sign up for MDSSP now, and am in the program for 2 years, how many years of drilling will I owe when I graduate?

It sounds like Notdeadyet is saying once you sign up, you're in for 8 years no matter what? Please correct me if you're talking about something else. This is new to me. But the brochure I downloaded from the Nat'l Guard site says this:

"Example: If you take six months of the MDSSP, you will owe 1 year of service obligation. If you take the incentive fore fourteen months, you will incur a 3 year contractual of service obligation."

This makes it sound like if I'm in the MDSSP program for 2 years, I'll owe 4 years of drilling when I graduate. Which sounds decent to me. Is this accurate, or am I misunderstanding something?

Question #2:

If I'm drilling for 4 years during my 4-year residency, am I guaranteed not to get "mobilized" during this time while I'm training?

I see it says if you sign up for STRAP you won't get mobilized, but what if you don't sign up for STRAP and you're just fulfilling your time from MDSSP? I'm not saying I wouldn't do STRAP but I'm not sure at this point. I'm a little bit of an older student so I've got to take some other things into consideration.

Any help with these questions would be appreciated... esp from Notdeadyet since I'm not sure if I'm talking about the same topic you discussed before.
 
This makes it sound like if I'm in the MDSSP program for 2 years, I'll owe 4 years of drilling when I graduate. Which sounds decent to me. Is this accurate, or am I misunderstanding something?

Your obligation is always 8 years total, but not all of them are spent drilling. If you took MDSSP for 2 years, you would owe 4 years in an active drilling status (2 days/month and 2 weeks/year). After that, you would owe 4 years on an inactive status, which means you don't have to do anything (training, drilling, annual tour, etc...), but it is possible, however unlikely, for them to call you back up.

Question #2:
If I'm drilling for 4 years during my 4-year residency, am I guaranteed not to get "mobilized" during this time while I'm training?

I see it says if you sign up for STRAP you won't get mobilized, but what if you don't sign up for STRAP and you're just fulfilling your time from MDSSP? I'm not saying I wouldn't do STRAP but I'm not sure at this point. I'm a little bit of an older student so I've got to take some other things into consideration.

The current policy is that everyone in medical school or residency is exempt from mobilization. It does not matter if you took incentives or not. This policy could possibly be changed in the future, but it would seriously hurt their recruitment, so it is very doubtful that it will change. In case you were wondering, people doing fellowships are deployable, but it is evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
 
The sooner you do OBLC the better because 18 months after you swear in as a 2nd Lieutenant you can get promoted to 1st Lieutenant and get paid more...but only if you've done OBLC. That's what I tried to go this year but unfortunately it didn't work out...and it seems like I can't go next year since they aren't offering classes in June. So ends up that I'm losing out on a bunch of money (since I will have almost 9 years of service by then), but oh well...you win some, you lose some.
 
Your obligation is always 8 years total, but not all of them are spent drilling. If you took MDSSP for 2 years, you would owe 4 years in an active drilling status (2 days/month and 2 weeks/year). After that, you would owe 4 years on an inactive status, which means you don't have to do anything (training, drilling, annual tour, etc...), but it is possible, however unlikely, for them to call you back up.

Thanks for the info.

Do the 2 years while on MDSSP count toward the 8 year total? So would the 8-year count-down start after no longer receiving MDSSP (at graduation)?

* Like this: 2 years MDSSP, 4 more years drilling, 4 years IRR

Or do the 8 years begin during MDSSP?

* Like this: 2 years MDSSP, 4 more years drilling, 2 years IRR?

The recruiter I'm talking with is saying that in order to be considered for ASR, you have to be a commissioned officer. I'm not sure if I understand him correctly.

* Can people come into the ARNG and be commissioned specifically for this program or does this mean you would have already had to be commissioned to just apply to participate?

He seems to be implying that the average student off the street is not eligible to *sign up* for the ARNG specifically for ASR, which seems to be at odds with what I'm reading here. Is that correct?

Also, the document I read says: "Current MDSSP recipients cannot voluntarily withdraw from MDSSP in order to participate in ASR." So it sounds like you can't sign up for MDSSP and then switch to ASR if you can get off the waitlist.

Thoughts?
 
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Do the 2 years while on MDSSP count toward the 8 year total? So would the 8-year count-down start after no longer receiving MDSSP (at graduation)?
You start ticking off your 8 years when you start drilling. So if you took MDSSP as an MS III and drilled, you'd only have 6 years owed by the time you graduated. You'd also owe 4 years of drilling time from MDSSP, so you'd have to drill for 4 years and could go to IRR for 2 years.
The recruiter I'm talking with is saying that in order to be considered for ASR, you have to be a commissioned officer. I'm not sure if I understand him correctly.
He's right. You need to be an officer. But most of us were sworn in as officer's specifically for the ASR program. Not many were already in the Guard. Most of us joined FOR ASR.
He seems to be implying that the average student off the street is not eligible to *sign up* for the ARNG specifically for ASR, which seems to be at odds with what I'm reading here. Is that correct?
He's wrong. Most ASR folks join off the street.
Also, the document I read says: "Current MDSSP recipients cannot voluntarily withdraw from MDSSP in order to participate in ASR." So it sounds like you can't sign up for MDSSP and then switch to ASR if you can get off the waitlist.
That is correct. If you take MDSSP, you must finish out your obligation before you can join ASR.
 
Thanks for the great info. This is all becoming clearer now. So can I ask you guys your opinion?

If I start this process now, and assuming it goes moderately smoothly, from what I've read I'm guessing it would be done in ~3 - 5 months? Does that sound approximately right?


  • If ASR has a waitlist now, the earliest I could start on it would be October, right? But how likely is that?
  • Would you say January is more realistic, considering the waitlist and the timeline?
  • Or will there be no waitlist once Oct rolls around? Or is it basically an unknown at this point?

I'm about to start my 3rd year next week. So I can do either ASR or MDSSP for 2 years tops.


  • Do you think I'd be better off just joining MDSSP at this point? Will that be a faster induction?

  • If I start this process pronto and everything goes relatively smoothly, how long do you think it would be before I'm official in either of these programs, ie- showing up for drill, collecting pay, etc?

I can see ASR is hands-down a better deal, but not if it takes forever to join or I can't get in it due to the waitlist/rumored program cuts.

It sounds like if I take one of these programs for 24 months, then I owe 48 months active drilling (plus IRR). But if it takes 3 months for me to get in, and I take the program for 21 months, is it rounded up to 2 years anyway (in terms of what I have to give back, so I'm still going to owe 48 months plus the remainder in IRR)? If so, the longer it takes, the more diminishing the returns.

On second thought:
  • If I start in Oct, I could do ASR for 1.75 years, which still seems like a better deal than 2 years of MDSSP.
  • Or even if I start in Jan, 2010, that would be 1.5 years in ASR, which with the BAH stipend, still seems better than 2 years of MDSSP.

These are the calculations I'm trying to figure out.

Given all that - and the likelihood/timeline of being able to enter either program - what's your opinion about the best course of action?
 
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