Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

[notdeadyet]

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Members don't see this ad.

You should get paid on the 15th of October that is assuming EVERYTHING in your paperwork packet is up to date, etc..... Get it done ASAP. Register your dependants, even if you are not putting them on Tricare. If they are not in DEERs, it will screw it up and you will get shorted. As long as the paperwork is good, you should get paid on the 15th.

Great advice here ^^^. But still be prepared to get paid late. Mine came 4 weeks after the 1st and I had all forms in. But after that, it's been like clockwork.

Delighted about the ASR program continuing too. I think this whole drama over the last few months should be further evidence that may recruiters run on gossip and then it spins into fact. If it ain't in writing, it ain't real...

 

[WamWammy]

I am just starting all of my paperwork now. Hoping I can get it in in time!

One question...what kinds of previous medical issues could halt my application? I had GI issues a few years ago, had several tests, but nothing was found. I am not being treated for anything and have no issues now. Will this be a red flag though?

 

[amindwalker]

When I went to MEPS 3 years ago, I was told that there had been a one-eyed doc who got a waiver. That having been said, one has to be off of psych meds for (I think) 2 years to qualify. This includes Ritalin & Adderall BTW. 😀

 

[notdeadyet]

One question...what kinds of previous medical issues could halt my application? I had GI issues a few years ago, had several tests, but nothing was found. I am not being treated for anything and have no issues now. Will this be a red flag though?

More of a yellow flag. You disclose it and they'll ask for documentation. You'll need to get documentation of your medical records showing it was explored and discounted. Depending on what it is, you might need a waiver, but if it's not an ongoing problem, you should be fine.

 

[punkiedad]

More of a yellow flag. You disclose it and they'll ask for documentation. You'll need to get documentation of your medical records showing it was explored and discounted. Depending on what it is, you might need a waiver, but if it's not an ongoing problem, you should be fine.

I would have to agree. It seems like somethign concrete would have to have been diagnosed, but then again some of those things like IBS are a more murky diagnosis. Additionally, since it sounds like you were not treated, it may be not that big of a deal. I would follow chain though and talk with your recruiter, so you get all your ducks in a row BEFORE SHOWING UP FOR MEPS. Otherwise, you will have to go through the whole process again.

Best of luck

 

[MedicalMonkey]

I'm guessing this is a silly question but maybe my assumptions turn out to be wrong. I'm guessing that international medical trips are not an option when you are active duty for the Army NG?? If they are an option how would you go about pursuing a trip? (talk to your C.O?) I'm just trying to add the pluses and the minuses and seeing where I end up. Also, are those spots delegated out to 2010 or do they fill up as quickly as possible?? Because I received a very early admission but will be matriculating in 2010 (early decision program between my university and a state medical school).

Thank you all.

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm guessing that international medical trips are not an option when you are active duty for the Army NG??

Consider that assumption dashed. Many doctors fulfill their yearly two week AT requirement by participating in humanitarian missions the Guard does every year.

I'm not sure if you can participate with any state or if you're assumed to go with your own, but I know California ran annual trips down to Central America. I know other folks who went to the Caribbean. It's definitely do-able. Ask your AMEDD recruiter, and if he doesn't know, ask him to put you in touch with someone in your state who does.

Also, are those spots delegated out to 2010 or do they fill up as quickly as possible??

Ah. If you're talking about as a medical student, I have no idea. The folks who all went on medical missions that I know of were all residents and above. Before you're a doctor, you're of pretty limited use. Nothing person. Me too. Might be able to swing it but it'd be lots harder, I'd imagine.

 

[MedicalMonkey]

Ohhh trust me... I'm of limited use and take none of it personally 🙂. I guess I phrased my question wrong though... is there a protocol for asking for leave? Or something along those lines. I would like to do research in Africa for part of my first summer but if that is impossible it would be only a small sacrifice. Thank you so much for the help by the way, and the idea of doing medical missions when i actually am a doctor sounds very fulfilling.

 

[tsbuqh]

Our unit may go to Italy next summer for AT. They will send our providers one at a time for 3 week stints, so that we can provide relief for the their medical clinic staff for the entire summer. As an MS1 I may not get to go, but they are arranging for one of the MS3's to go as a provider and he will use it as a clinical elective.

MedicalMonkey, you asked if you should apply now with your early admission. The answer is yes. If you have a letter of admission in your hand you can apply. You will get a control number for next July, when you would start ASR, but you can drill until then. Within the first few months of drill, I would bet you will start to have patient contact, which I think is one of the real benefits of the guard.

 

[jkmph]

Hey all - I read about 10 pages of this thread before I gave up. I'm applying this cycle and have been seriously considering HPSP. After spending some more time investigating this ASR program, I'm beginning to wonder if it's not a better (if not significantly better) option.

First. I went to my home states website and submitted a request to talk to a recruiter. I'm well aware someone who is looking to enlist me is going to respond. Can anyone put me in touch with recruiter who works with ASR students? My home state is Maine, but I've applied all over the east coast so I have no idea what state I'll end up in for medical school.

Secondly. You're only paid for the first 3 years of the program, correct? Is this an issue for anyone else? Medical school is 4 years. What revenue stream do you have during your 4th year to sustain the 45-55k that you are no longer receiving this year?

Third. How are you all actually paying tuition? Let's say you're receiving that 45,000$ over the course of a 12-month calendar year. You're tuition is presumably due in July/August before classes begin. Is everyone using FAFSA stafford loans? Are they borrowing the full ammount and paying it back over the year?

Thanks,
J

 

[notdeadyet]

Can anyone put me in touch with recruiter who works with ASR students? My home state is Maine, but I've applied all over the east coast so I have no idea what state I'll end up in for medical school.

I sent you info via PM of a great national recruiter some of us have used. He'll treat you right.

You're only paid for the first 3 years of the program, correct? Is this an issue for anyone else? Medical school is 4 years. What revenue stream do you have during your 4th year to sustain the 45-55k that you are no longer receiving this year?

You should apply for financial aid, just like everyone else. Get your loans and pay off whatever you want/can with your ASR money. This is not a scholarship. It's a $50-60k/year salary. If that's enough to pay off med school as you go, great. If not, you use loans for the rest like everybody else.

DEFINITELY take out the loans though. If ASR is cancelled, you don't want to be scrambling to find someone willing to give you a $60k loan all of a sudden. Take the loans and pay as much as you can with ASR.

How are you all actually paying tuition? Let's say you're receiving that 45,000$ over the course of a 12-month calendar year. You're tuition is presumably due in July/August before classes begin. Is everyone using FAFSA stafford loans? Are they borrowing the full ammount and paying it back over the year?

Yes. Exactly.

 

[EMH]

I even recommend taking out just enough loans to pay tuition and using the guard money to live off of and to save some of it. You'll want to buy a house when you start residency and a good down payment will help you out tremendously.

 

[jkmph]

I even recommend taking out just enough loans to pay tuition and using the guard money to live off of and to save some of it. You'll want to buy a house when you start residency and a good down payment will help you out tremendously.

One of my 'bigger' concerns is that you are on your own that fourth year. I'm not really sure I understand why they would make this program 3 years instead of 4. None-the-less one is required to deal with the loss of revenue for the 4th year (or possibly 1st if they started this as an M2).

It would seem to me that you would need to save money during years 1-3 so that during your 4th year you have enough savings to cover your costs. I realize that this is only the 2nd or 3rd year of the program so it's unlikely anyone has actually encountered this issue yet.

If you make 50k/year x3 years ,you're netting 150k. You could hypothetically save 37.5k for that 4th year to live on; which for any med student should be far more than enough. Is this everyone elses plan?

Also as a resident it's somewhat unclear what kind of financial opportunities and guard responsibilities exist as an ANR enrollee. Can anyone answer this question factually?

 

[notdeadyet]

One of my 'bigger' concerns is that you are on your own that fourth year. I'm not really sure I understand why they would make this program 3 years instead of 4. None-the-less one is required to deal with the loss of revenue for the 4th year (or possibly 1st if they started this as an M2).

I think you might be looking at this the wrong way. This is not a scholarship. This is a program in which you're a drilling member of the National Guard. Given that you're in a unique position as medical student and the Guard is in dire need of physicians, you are given a very generous salary for up to three years in which you're expected to help recruit doctors and other medical students.

Can the money you make from the National Guard allow you to coast through med school loan-free? Well, that obviously depends on your med school. After taxes, you'll pull in anywhere from $38-45K/year (depending on allowances, if you're single, and your zip code). That's not enough to cover my three years of med school, let alone four.

I take out loans all four years. Again, it's your call. No one can tell you the best choice, because it depends on your preferences. Some will take out bear minimums to keep down debt, but then have to borrow more money when they take out a mortgage. Others take out low-interest student loans because they'd rather put a bigger down on a house.

But think of this as essentially a $120K job for three years. It's not meant to pay for med school. If it does, cool.

 

[notdeadyet]

If you make 50k/year x3 years ,you're netting 150k.

No, you're grossing $150k. You'll be netting closer to $120K.

You could hypothetically save 37.5k for that 4th year to live on; which for any med student should be far more than enough. Is this everyone elses plan?

For the vast majority of medical students, $30k is not enough to cover medical school each year. For many, that's not even tuition. Most take out loans. With ASR, folks are lucky to be able to take out a lot less.

Also as a resident it's somewhat unclear what kind of financial opportunities and guard responsibilities exist as an ANR enrollee. Can anyone answer this question factually?

ASR is a three year max program. Once you graduate medical school, you are not in ASR. You have no recruiting duties. You are a regular drilling member of the National Guard. During residency you are non-deployable. There are a bunch of different bonuses and loan repayment programs you can get as a physician in the Guard, depending on specialty and how many more years you want to be obligated. The programs are all covered in this thread.

 

[EMH]

The reason the program is for only 3 years is that the trick to this program is that they're putting us on ADSW (or now known as ADOS) orders as a way to pay us during school. The way the reg on ADOS orders is written says that a soldier can only be on ADSW orders for a certain period of time that works out to be almost exactly 3 years.

On another note: I just got my $4500 Federal Tuition Assistance money. 👍👍

There are some benefits to having some loans but each person's situation will vary. For example one of the things being kicked around congress right now is loan forgiveness for students who go into Primary Care.

 

[jkmph]

Thanks for the replies guys. Emh, the referral in your PM is great! He sent me a million things to read and was very generous.

 

[Barium56]

You can now call me 2LT Barium56. I was commissioned today. Now I will be awaiting those ASR orders starting OCT1.

 

[AlphaPower]

I signed up for health insurance and dental insurance before I got the news they funded another 200 slots. My swearing in date is 8/19. I understand I'm supposed to be covered with TriCare? Does that start on 10/1 as well? What should I do with the health insurance I signed up with (over 2 grand a year)? Cancel it? What do I do about insurance between now and 10/1 if Tricare won't start until then?

 

[AlphaPower]

You can now call me 2LT Barium56. I was commissioned today. Now I will be awaiting those ASR orders starting OCT1.

Congrats Barium!

 

[TKC891]

My spouse is a mid age doctor with easy life and fairly good income. After talking with an army healthcare recruiter, my spouse has jointed Army as a direct commissioned doctor. When talking with the recruiter, he told us everything beautiful about army doctor’s life, including attractive sign-in bonus, easy professional environment, good pension, comfortable retirement and possible placement in countries like Italy and Germany. He has tried to make deployment sound safe and easy. The worst is he has never introduced any detail about the officer training program which is actually the first and extremely difficult for someone in mid-age to go through, this is especially hard to a mid age who has no preparation at all for something like walking four miles, jumping out of truck or lunge forward with 40-50 lb. weight. After 8-10 hr physical training, you will have to sleep in a tent for several weeks without running water, clean toilet and taking a shower. The situation may be a lot worse when it is in summer. This type of physical training may cause a young man tired which will be over after a good sleep, but it may cause serious and permanent physical problem to a mid age. Army may have never thought about that direct commissioned doctors are usually about their mid-age and have lived easy life for long time. Not too many of them are used to hard physical experiences like these before they join army. They are happy to work for army, but army should treat them fairly. Mid aged people should not be trained in the same group as 20 year old. It is very unwise to expect a mid age medical professional who has never done any physical exercise in his or her life to behave the same as a 20 yr old. If this is not acceptable to army, then army should not take anyone in that age group. If this type of training is a must for everyone in army, then, army recruiters should tell all applicants in front and let them prepare for this. Army recruiters should not act like a used car salesman to hide everying negative. Now you have ruined our life and killed the reputation of army.

 

[notdeadyet]

I signed up for health insurance and dental insurance before I got the news they funded another 200 slots. My swearing in date is 8/19. I understand I'm supposed to be covered with TriCare? Does that start on 10/1 as well?

Yes, you'll be covered by TriCare fulltime on 10/1. Before that, you'll be covered by TriCare only on drill weekends. You're also eligible for TriCare Reserve Select (I think that's the name for the program) in which you pay for full-time TriCare, but it's probably not worth the hassle for a few weeks of coverage.

What should I do with the health insurance I signed up with (over 2 grand a year)? Cancel it? What do I do about insurance between now and 10/1 if Tricare won't start until then?

I went into talk to my school benefit folks and was able to cancel out in the middle of a quarter and they pro-rated my fees. I cancelled my policy on the 9th and they prorated me from the end of that month and reimbursed the rest of the year.

It shouldn't be a big hassle. Lots of folks cancel their med school health insurance in the middle of the year, often because it's cheaper getting coverage via a working spouse.

btw, Barium, congrats- It's been a long time...

 

[notdeadyet]

After talking with an army healthcare recruiter, my spouse has jointed Army as a direct commissioned doctor. When talking with the recruiter, he told us everything beautiful about army doctor's life, including attractive sign-in bonus, easy professional environment, good pension, comfortable retirement and possible placement in countries like Italy and Germany. He has tried to make deployment sound safe and easy.

I take it you are foreign-born, TKC891, yes? I'm not sure about other countries, but in the U.S., you should be very careful with the story people tell you when they're trying to sell you something. This is true of military recruiters, corporate headhunters, car dealers, and medical school admissions. If your wife is smart enough to get into med school, she's smart enough to read the contract. And unless it's guaranteed by contract, the safest approach is to assume it won't happen.

The worst is he has never introduced any detail about the officer training program which is actually the first and extremely difficult for someone in mid-age to go through,

Officer training would be very hard for someone in bad shape at any age to go through. If you're in decent shape, even decent shape for someone middle aged, it shouldn't be impossible. And it's supposed to be hard.

this is especially hard to a mid age who has no preparation at all for something like walking four miles, jumping out of truck or lunge forward with 40-50 lb. weight.

None of these things should be hard for someone middle aged who is in basic physical shape.

After 8-10 hr physical training, you will have to sleep in a tent for several weeks without running water, clean toilet and taking a shower. The situation may be a lot worse when it is in summer.

This is the Army. Did your wife expect chocolate on the pillows?

 

[notdeadyet]

Army may have never thought about that direct commissioned doctors are usually about their mid-age and have lived easy life for long time.

Not true. Most doctors have had to struggle for many years to get where they are. Some (though god knows not all) struggled for the first part of their lives as well.

Not too many of them are used to hard physical experiences like these before they join army.

Your average doctor is in MUCH better shape than your average American. Your average doctor exercises fairly regularly and eats moderately well. That's enough of a fitness base to make it through officer training.

They are happy to work for army, but army should treat them fairly. Mid aged people should not be trained in the same group as 20 year old. It is very unwise to expect a mid age medical professional who has never done any physical exercise in his or her life to behave the same as a 20 yr old.

The Army does this. If your wife is 37, she needs to do 13 push-ups. An average age male med student, say 25, needs to do 40.

But yes, they all need to sleep in the dirt and carry a backpack and be able to run. You need to be able to work in a war zone and that requires that you have a certain set of skills and a basic physical ability.

If this type of training is a must for everyone in army, then, army recruiters should tell all applicants in front and let them prepare for this.

Your wife should have done a very basic read of what she was signing up for. The requirement of officer training is pretty obvious and what it is composed of is very easy to find. It would take a five minute google search to turn this up.

Army recruiters should not act like a used car salesman to hide everying negative.

You and your wife should have put in at least as much research into signing away 8 years of her life as you would for buying a used car.

There are many unpleasantries in military medicine that are hard to find out about unless you look really hard (AHLTA, Tricare appts, etc.). The requirement to go to OBC and what you have to do at OBC? Basic stuff.

 

[eflix]

Congrats Barium!

I'm guessing TKC891's spouse is not in the national guard based on the description about sign-in bonus, which is not applicable to this thread and should be moved.

But just to share my own experience, my recruiter was excellent. My fed rec board warned me about the possibility of deploying to the desert so I'm surprised similar boards in the Army never did so.

 

[Kimaris]

Hey notdeadyet I have a question. Is there a quota of how many people that you have to recruit? If there is then what are the consiquences if you don't meet them? I sorry if this has been covered but this thread is going on 40 pages. Thanks
Kimaris

 

[notdeadyet]

Hey notdeadyet I have a question. Is there a quota of how many people that you have to recruit? If there is then what are the consiquences if you don't meet them?

Nope, no quota. In my state, they request that we forward names/addresses of prospects that are interested, to show that we're still talking to people, but there's no quota out there.

I sorry if this has been covered but this thread is going on 40 pages. Thanks
Kimaris

No worries. But be sure to read through all 40 pages before making up your mind. There are lots of little nuggets of benefits you might not be aware of and answers to concerns that you might not have thought of. Folks here ask lots of really intelligent questions.

 

[tech2doc]

Question for those of you who have received FTA already. When does it normally disburse? When should I expect to see it posted to my university account?

 

[notdeadyet]

Question for those of you who have received FTA already. When does it normally disburse? When should I expect to see it posted to my university account?

After you give your school the form, and after they send the form in to the Guard, and assuming your school can accept the EFT, it's supposed to take about two months.

 

[AlphaPower]

After you give your school the form, and after they send the form in to the Guard, and assuming your school can accept the EFT, it's supposed to take about two months.

I will be swearing in on the 19th. Is that when I can apply for the FTA? A few questions on that:

1. How/when do I apply?
2. What additional MSO comes with it? (I'm MS1, and if everything goes smoothly, I'll get paid in Oct)
3. Same questions for tuition $ given at the state level. (I'm in NC, and I think NC gives out like $2000/yr)

 

[eflix]

Unfortunately, it takes a while to get into the computer system. You need a ID card to apply for FTA, and it took me a while for the system to recognize it. You can apply for it here: https://minuteman.ngb.army.mil/Benefits/Unsecured/Login.aspx?ReturnUrl=/benefits

Also, I was told you have to apply before the start of classes (i got an email saying the deadline for me to submit an application was aug 15). Check it out for your state though - that may be different.

 

[AlphaPower]

I swore in today. I'm officially a 2LT of the National Guard! Thanks to everyone who contributed to this wonderful thread! Couldn't have made up my mind without it!

 

[Barium56]

Congrats AlphaPower! I agree about the thread, everyone here helped me make up my mind to join.

 

[thedukeofelms]

Just because.
Somebody has to speak up against this nonsense.
120k is not worth your freedom for the rest of your life. Do some reading folks. And yes, the recruiters are absolutely going to tell you anything to get you to join. The incentives look great, you are naive and weak and want the money, you sign up for a lot more than you think. You enlist. That means your name is on their list. That means, you are in their service and that piece of paper that says "discharge" means jack **** if they decide it means jack ****. Can you safely say that America is not going to repeat the episode of the last decade? Can you say that America, with its horrible policy on green energy and complete dependence on oil... still... is going to stay ahead of the rest of the world which is pioneering what Thomas Freedman has referred to as the "Green Revolution" and will lead the world into a new era?

Read this fast, copy and paste it, I have no doubt it will be sequestered by the admins here. If I can dissuade one person I have done good.

Enjoy.

http://www.ng.mil/news/archives/2009/03/031909-Stoploss.aspx
"We have the legal authority to do it," Gates said during a Pentagon news conference. "But ... I felt, particularly in these numbers, that it was breaking faith. It wasn't a violation of the enlistment contract. But I believe that when somebody's end date of service comes up, to hold them against their will, if you will, is just not the right thing to do."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/18/AR2009031802504.html
Still, Gates said that changes "do carry some risk," and that the Army retains the authority to use stop-loss under "extraordinary" circumstances. But he said that should happen only in an "emergency situation where we absolutely had to have somebody's skills for a specific, limited period of time." Such decisions would be made by the secretary of the Army, he said.

Such a renewed use of stop-loss might stem from a sudden demand to deploy a large Army force, said Lt. Gen. Michael Rochelle, the Army's deputy chief of staff for personnel.

"Stop-loss has been a vital tool," Rochelle said. But, he added, "we know that this has been a hardship . . . on Army families."

Stop-loss began with an executive order in 1990, which gave the defense secretary the authority to hold on to or bring back from retirement military personnel deemed essential to U.S. national security. The Army used it during the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War and again after the 2001 terrorist attacks.

More recently, the Army has used stop-loss to maintain the cohesion of military units, keeping together personnel as they train and deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Army now aims to achieve the same goal by offering monetary incentives for soldiers to voluntarily extend their service until 60 days after the end of overseas deployments, said Maj. Gen. Gina Farrisee, the Army's director of military personnel management. The details of such an incentive plan have not been released.



http://www.crazyontap.com/topic.php?TopicId=44053&Posts=24



http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/fraud/us_government/news.php?q=1227479352



http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/62fb7/national_guard_why_not_join_good_reason_to_not/

 

[notdeadyet]

Just because.
Somebody has to speak up against this nonsense.
120k is not worth your freedom for the rest of your life. Do some reading folks. And yes, the recruiters are absolutely going to tell you anything to get you to join. The incentives look great, you are naive and weak and want the money, you sign up for a lot more than you think. You enlist.

No, you don't enlist. You are commissioned. The enlisted soldiers, especially those in combat arms on the active side, have been the ones bearing the brunt of stop loss.

Stop-loss sucks. But I've never heard of any National Guard physicians who have been stop-lossed. If you have a link to any article that describes that, it would be useful to read. Otherwise, the stuff you're referencing is old news and not particularly applicable to those of us in our program.

 

[thedukeofelms]

No, you don't enlist. You are commissioned. The enlisted soldiers, especially those in combat arms on the active side, have been the ones bearing the brunt of stop loss.

Stop-loss sucks. But I've never heard of any National Guard physicians who have been stop-lossed. If you have a link to any article that describes that, it would be useful to read. Otherwise, the stuff you're referencing is old news and not particularly applicable to those of us in our program.

Wow that was tough. Took me a whole 10 second google search to find out that yes, you docs lose your freedom too. Read on. Just let this sink in, they have clauses in the contract you sign that let them change the contract you signed.

http://media.www.thespartandaily.co...on/StopLoss.Needs.The.Red.Light-3297641.shtml
"A Selective Service spokesman mentioned a "skills-based draft," which would stop-loss engineers, linguists and medics, among other people. No one should think this policy doesn't concern him simply because he doesn't know any soldiers. The Army could need your mom or your friend next."

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-3631164/Doctor-wins-discharge-from-the.html
"The Army has reversed course and decided to let an Army physician resign, after first demanding that he stay in the reserves as part of a "stop-loss" wartime policy."
"The Army re-evaluated Maj. Ginestra's resignation and approved his resignation on January 7, 2005, five days before he filed his lawsuit. We honor his service to his country and wish him well. Regarding the stop-loss policy, a soldier's job specialty is immaterial to the policy. No one [military occupation specialty] or specialty would stand apart from the unit stop-loss policy."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6862691/the_return_of_the_draft/
The memo duly notes the administration's aversion to a draft but adds, "Defense manpower officials concede there are critical shortages of military personnel with certain special skills, such as medical personnel, linguists, computer network engineers, etc." The potentially prohibitive cost of "attracting and retaining such personnel for military service," the memo adds, has led "some officials to conclude that, while a conventional draft may never be needed, a draft of men and women possessing these critical skills may be warranted in a future crisis." This new draft, it suggests, could be invoked to meet the needs of both the Pentagon and the Department of Homeland Security.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2008-10-26-stoploss_N.htm

This one sounds like it is better news for you guys, but then you realize that this is a military website and they are not going to be straight about it. You are still subject to stop loss. They still own you.
"What is “Stop Loss” and are military physicians subject to involuntary retention on active duty?
“Stop Loss” is a program in the military that retains a military member on Active Duty beyond the date that the person is scheduled to leave the military due to retirement or discharge. This can be invoked by the Secretary of Defense and/or the President in the event of a national emergency. When Donald Rumsfeld was Secretary of Defense he instituted a “Stop Loss” for certain military specialties. Physicians were subject to this for a brief period of time. Since Mr. Rumsfeld left office, the current Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, has said publically that he will not invoke the “Stop Loss” program unless there are extreme circumstances. Over the past three-plus years none of the military docs we have represented were held on Active Duty beyond their scheduled date of departure." http://www.ushpp.net/index.php?pageID=3500_2#faq9

I don't think this guy is a medic, but its a pretty common scenario of what has happened in the last decade.
"Stop-loss has survived at least a dozen court challenges. One of the more visible was filed by Oregon National Guard Sgt. Emiliano Santiago. Two weeks away from the end of his eight year stint, Santiago was ordered to Afghanistan, his contract extended until 2031.

Santiago’s attorney, Steven Goldberg of Portland, Oregon sued (Santiago v. Rumsfeld, 2005 U.S. App. LEXIS 8461 (9th Cir. May 13, 2005)), saying the policy doesn’t apply to Santiago because without a declared war, Santiago had fulfilled the terms of his eight year contract. But the court disagreed. Read the fine print of your contract the court said - “laws and regulations that govern military personnel may change without notice to me.”

Read more: http://www.injuryboard.com/national-news/part-stop-loss-real-life.aspx?googleid=28348#ixzz0OjLXBASa

"Reserve and NG Army PA's are called up for longer periods of time, but they serve at unit level (battalion) and are very important for unit cohesiveness.
Ask why the other services are allowing their PA's to retire and ETS, at the same time, enforcing stop loss on Army PA's, as essential to the mission.
I asked about coming back on AD for a year, recieved no calls from branch (AMSC) PA's, the Army medical department or anyone else. All I got was a form letter to let me know that I would be expected to meet height and weight, PT test, standards, plus give up retired pay, And told there was no hope to be promoted. In all, I could end up dead, lose my retired' pay as well as get caught up in "stop loss " myself for who knows how long.
http://www.sftt.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=102

A lot of you may be saying "but Bush is gone and Obama would never do this to us" and you have a point. The Bush administration was ruthless with stop loss, the current administration is weening off of it. But. And there is a but. Necessity trumps all, and it looks like we are going to have our hands full in a slew of conflicts within the next decade. Need proof? Here is a guarantee.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/29/7364


Wait wait wait. OK, this one might be the checkmate.
Make sure to read the entire thing and, if you still think I am wrong, go through several of the links at the bottom.
http://hasbrouck.org/draft/health.html
http://www.hasbrouck.org/draft/draftandwar.html
Remember what GI Joe says. Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!

 

[thedukeofelms]

Just a side thought.
Have you all heard about the expected medical crisis in our lifetimes? The one where we have nowhere near enough doctors to fulfill the needs of our population? What do you think is going to happen to the military? If you think they are going to do whatever they can to keep doctors for themselves, you are probably right.

 

[notdeadyet]

Wow that was tough. Took me a whole 10 second google search to find out that yes, you docs lose your freedom too. Read on. Just let this sink in, they have clauses in the contract you sign that let them change the contract you signed.

Duke, the article you posted is about an Army doc who wasn't stop lossed. Also, I don't know how familiar you are with the military but this thread is about the National Guard. The article you're referencing is about an Army reservist.

As for your articles about the military working hard to attract doctors and try to keep them in, that's exactly why we have the ASR program. The military shortage of doctors isn't a surprise to anyone. It's why they're offering money and tuition to people.

Over the past three-plus years none of the military docs we have represented were held on Active Duty beyond their scheduled date of departure." http://www.ushpp.net/index.php?pageID=3500_2#faq9

So your example of a NG doc being stop lossed was actually a reservist not being stop-lossed, and your proof of it happening is an article saying that it hasn't?

I don't think this guy is a medic,

Again, not sure how much you know about the military, but none of us are applying to be medics. Physicians are a different animal.

If you have something to ask or mention about the ASR program, you're encouraged to do so. If your rant is about military medicine, the military in general, the war, or a draft that hasn't happened in 35+ years, please start a new thread.

 

[mfrizzo3]

Just a side thought.
Have you all heard about the expected medical crisis in our lifetimes? The one where we have nowhere near enough doctors to fulfill the needs of our population? What do you think is going to happen to the military? If you think they are going to do whatever they can to keep doctors for themselves, you are probably right.

So......why are you here?

 

[Barium56]

Does anyone have current information on when OBC will be offered in 2010? Last I heard there was no date for Summer (June-July). The summer date would work best for me, as I'm sure it does for most of you. Thanks.

 

[CoyoteDoc]

Just a side thought.
Have you all heard about the expected medical crisis in our lifetimes? The one where we have nowhere near enough doctors to fulfill the needs of our population? What do you think is going to happen to the military? If you think they are going to do whatever they can to keep doctors for themselves, you are probably right.

He has a point. The military needs doctors very badly. It's sad to me that there are so many people out there who are too greedy/scared/ etc to join the military in order to treat wounded soldiers fighting to defend our country. I would be absolutely embarrassed to show how much of a scared pathetic waste of a doctor I really was by posting the things he did. It's one thing to complain about how badly the brave soldiers of this country need more physicians to care for them; it's something completely different to use that as an excuse to hide your fear. Go curl up in the corner on your own if you'd like, but don't try to dissuade people from showing their own bravery simply because you aren't man enough to do it yourself.

By the way... Swore in 2 wks ago, waiting on my control number. Any clue on how long that usually takes to get?

 

[jyoudan]

Hi There,

I know its been awhile since I posted, but I wanted some time to really think about if this was the right program for me, and I sure its something I really want to do at this point. After looking up some additional information on national guard benefits in each state, Ive just ended up with more questions. Hopefully, you guys will be able to answer them for me.

1. Receiving a paycheck, I understand I could use this to help pay tuition, loans, etc, but are we also eligible to receive the National Guard educational benefits? For example, if I could get into UMDNJ, tuition is 100% covered if you're an active member of the national guard. Would we be eligible for programs such as this?

2. Also, most states allow OOS-accepted national guard members to pay the in-state cost, but a few, such as California, with the stipulation that you are not there solely for educational purposes. Im assuming this includes us, but I pray that Im wrong. Anyone know what we'd officially consider ourselves as?

3. Currently, you cant be deployed during medical school, but as some medical schools allow 5 year MD/MS programs, does anyone know if the deployment restriction is lifted during the MS year? It falls after the second year, then after that year, you spend your last two years finishing up ur MD.

Ill be grateful for any help I can get. Great job to those that have gotten off the waitlist! Hopefully some spots will be available by the time I can join.

 

[TopSecret]

Just a side thought.
Have you all heard about the expected medical crisis in our lifetimes? The one where we have nowhere near enough doctors to fulfill the needs of our population? What do you think is going to happen to the military? If you think they are going to do whatever they can to keep doctors for themselves, you are probably right.

They could draft doctors. The Selective Service looked into this possibility a few years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/19/p...=42673cf02ce209cc&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

 

[notdeadyet]

Welcome back, jyoudan...

1. Receiving a paycheck, I understand I could use this to help pay tuition, loans, etc, but are we also eligible to receive the National Guard educational benefits? For example, if I could get into UMDNJ, tuition is 100% covered if you're an active member of the national guard. Would we be eligible for programs such as this?

You are. The benefits vary. Several states have free tuition to all active members of the National Guard. You qualify for this. Some states have percentage discounts on tuition. You would qualify for those too.

2. Also, most states allow OOS-accepted national guard members to pay the in-state cost, but a few, such as California, with the stipulation that you are not there solely for educational purposes. Im assuming this includes us, but I pray that Im wrong. Anyone know what we'd officially consider ourselves as?

This isn't a Guard thing, it's a state residency thing. In California, no one can become a resident for tuition purposes unless they move to California for reasons other than for getting in state tuition. I understand that's due to the fact that it's against our state charter to charge tuition, so they have this rule to keep people from flooding the state for free tuition. Of course, the politico's sort of loopholed this by charging us $30K/year in "fees" instead, but I'm editorializing.

Several states exempt military folks from this, but again, it varies by state. Some allow any member of the military to get state residency, but most require you to be active duty and stationed at a particular base in-state. Whether or not ADSW for the Guard qualifies will be up to the school. I'd contact them directly.

3. Currently, you cant be deployed during medical school, but as some medical schools allow 5 year MD/MS programs, does anyone know if the deployment restriction is lifted during the MS year? It falls after the second year, then after that year, you spend your last two years finishing up ur MD.

My read of my contract is that you are not deployable until you are a licensed physician (i.e.: after your intern year). If anyone has a different read, I hope they'll post.

Ill be grateful for any help I can get. Great job to those that have gotten off the waitlist! Hopefully some spots will be available by the time I can join.

We had 200 new spots open for October 1st, so there's no one has to wait for people to resign and get off a waitlist....

 

[notdeadyet]

They could draft doctors. The Selective Service looked into this possibility a few years ago.

Thank God cooler heads prevailed. Talk to folks who served with a drafted Army and they shudder at the memory...

By the way, maybe I'm on SDN too much, but is anyone else getting tired of looking at animals walking across the top of the screen?

 

[tele turnin]

are there really states where you would get "free" tuition for 3 yrs while on active asr orders? if so, anybody know which ones, a website, and if you have to be in said state for X amount of time?

 

[notdeadyet]

are there really states where you would get "free" tuition for 3 yrs while on active asr orders? if so, anybody know which ones, a website, and if you have to be in said state for X amount of time?

Do a google search. Here's one site. But ultimately it's going to be your responsibility to make sure the info is up to date by contacting individual schools.

Most states give a tuition break to National Guards folks. About half the states give full tuition scholarships to state schools. For medical schools, some states give free tuition for the state medical school. Some states give free tuition up to the tuition for a year of undergrad. It varies widely. Almost all of these programs do not require state residency, only that you are a member of the National Guard in that state.

But again, it varies by state and by medical school. Contact the financial aid office of a particular medical school to find out what the policy is before making any decisions.

 

[jyoudan]

I really like this site, as it lists benefits by state, and not just on education either. Either way, its a nice start, but the best way is to go to each state's site individually. Understandably, most states only fund tuition at public schools, but some offer assistance for private schools as well!

http://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/EN/bfStateBenf.aspx

 

[DeadCactus]

I just wanted to clear up some things. Do I have the following correct?

Federal Tuition is assistance is available to ASR, but if you have less than four years of obligation left (eg third year of ASR and beyond) it extends your obligation to four years out.

ASR does not allow us to sign up for the active duty GI Bill, but we can still claim the reserve GI Bill?

We do not get active duty pay and moving expenses to do rotations at military hospitals.

Correct?

 

[EMH]

Don't feed the trolls.