Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

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Note, you will incur an additional committment if you take MDSSP your 4th year.
Correct, and at a 1:2 ratio too. (if you take MDSSP your fourth year, you incur a two year obligation)
Believe me, I researched all the HPSP's and NIH and the National Guard hands down kills them all. At least in my case it did considering the tuition.
ASR is simply a fantastic program, but if you're also going to a school that gives you a tuition state break by being in the Guard, its' a no brainer.
 
ASR is simply a fantastic program, but if you're also going to a school that gives you a tuition state break by being in the Guard, its' a no brainer.

Is there a list of schools that do this?

Also, are there any ASR students that frequent here from the state of Florida? I have an acceptance in my home state and have spoken to an ASR student about the expectations of her while in school/residency. However, she was adamenent that I my homework about the state I end up in because they obviously vary state-to-state. Looking for someone in Florida where I have 2 interviews coming up...
 
Fourth year "electives" are kind of unusual animals. For most schools, once you hit fourth year, you have a lot less actual requirements. Some schools may require this class or that, but for the most part, you just have a set number of weeks that you have to fill.

Lots of schools do have a requirement of how many of those weeks need to be "clinical" or "patient facing". This is to make sure that folks don't do 20 weeks straight of electives in which they are doing research or not seeing patients.

But after you satisfy requirements and the required number of clinical weeks, you're left with a bucket of weeks that you can use for vacation, extra research, and classes like Rafting Medicine and that kind of thing. How many weeks varies by school. At mine, it's 16.

The only downside to that is that OBLC eats into that number of essentially freebie weeks. Some schools MIGHT allow you to count OBLC as one of your clinical courses, but I'd imagine they'd be few, as you don't see patients in OBLC. But some schools have very little oversight for fourth year, so you might get lucky. Talk to your senior classpeople, registrar, or advisor.


NotDeadYet -
Thanks for your answers, but I was wondering SPECIFICALLY which schools allowed it, so I had some solid examples to bring to my Dean to get him to accept it as an elective for me and my fellow ASR's at my school. THanks!
 
NotDeadYet -
Thanks for your answers, but I was wondering SPECIFICALLY which schools allowed it, so I had some solid examples to bring to my Dean to get him to accept it as an elective for me and my fellow ASR's at my school. THanks!

I think your question SHOULD be: "Of the schools that have an IDENTICAL approach to patient contact, electives, vacation and its uses during the 4th year as MY school, how many allow their ASR 4th years to attend OBLC on school time rather than the students'?" What he is trying to tell you it depends on YOUR school. I used to do the same thing when I wanted to go somewhere with friends and parents would say no; "Well, Jimmy's parents are letting HIM go!" Maybe your admin is different, but mine would say, "We don't really care what they're doing with their students."

YMMV....

After MSI-II summer, I suspect there is no good time to attend OBLC, without taking vacation to do it. At least at my place.......
 
After MSI-II summer, I suspect there is no good time to attend OBLC, without taking vacation to do it. At least at my place.......
Agreed...

CraeMer75- Mr. Freeze has it right. Your school won't care what my school says. Your school will have its own educational requirements in 4th year. How they will view OBLC is going to depend on how they view courses with no clinical contact. That's where you'll be able to use it. It may just come out of your vacation time.
 
Two random questions:

What's the MOS for folks in ASR?
What branch (within the Army) are we commisioned into? I'm assuming Medical?

Edit:

Totally forgot the important question: What should I expect at the State Board? Just a short interview to make sure I'm not some kind of nut? Or do I really need to worry about being denied?
 
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Two random questions:

What's the MOS for folks in ASR?
What branch (within the Army) are we commisioned into? I'm assuming Medical?

Medical Service Corps until graduation. I may have this wrong, but since you aren't MOS Qualified in ASR, you don't have one. 00E67 (Physician Student) is some sort of classification, but I dunno if this fits into the traditional MOS list somewhere. I'd be curious when you actually get a 60-62 series MOS; after residency? Any of the interns know?

So, you don't have one yet, and don't buy MC insignia yet. 😉
 
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Yea, we're in the medical service corps branch. From what I've seen the 60-62 MOSes involve a specialty, so I would think that you get one after residency. There's a list of them at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_careers

From what I've heard, for med students the boards are usually just a formality because they need us (not always the case for other slots). Just take it seriously - it's a good chance to chat with some senior officers about their own experiences in the guard, and they have interesting stories too. They'll probably ask you why you want to join, what you do outside of school, stuff like that - piece of cake after med school interviews. Good luck!
 
How long is it taking you guys to have your packets processed and MEPS scheduled? I had my packet in about 4-5 weeks ago and still nothing... 😕
 
Thanks for the great information.

This program sounds great, and I would like to learn more about it, but my local recruiter doesn't seem up to par. I first set up a meeting with him, and he didn't show up. He called later to say he had some sort of emergency (more likely that he forgot the meeting), and he hasn't called me back in two weeks.

On top of that, he has never heard of this program.

So, is there some sort of national recruiter, or way that I could talk to somebody other than my local recruiter to get the process started?

Thanks.
 
Thanks for the great information.

This program sounds great, and I would like to learn more about it, but my local recruiter doesn't seem up to par. I first set up a meeting with him, and he didn't show up. He called later to say he had some sort of emergency (more likely that he forgot the meeting), and he hasn't called me back in two weeks.

On top of that, he has never heard of this program.

So, is there some sort of national recruiter, or way that I could talk to somebody other than my local recruiter to get the process started?

Thanks.

Make sure you're talking to an AMEDD recruiter and not a standard Army or NG recruiter. Very different folks.

Check if your state's NG AMEDD has a website and look for contact information their. The person you contact should help you out or point you in the direction of the right person.
 
So, is there some sort of national recruiter, or way that I could talk to somebody other than my local recruiter to get the process started?
What state are you in? If it's a state represented by someone we're familiar with, we'll point you in the right direction. If you're in a state where we don't know anyone, we can give you the name/contact info of the national guy.
 
Yeah, sorry about that. I should have included the state originally.

I am in Portland, OR. If you know anyone here, point them my way. Otherwise I will try and find the right recruiter.
 
How long is it taking you guys to have your packets processed and MEPS scheduled? I had my packet in about 4-5 weeks ago and still nothing... 😕
It didn't take much time (less than a week) to set up a MEPS date for me after I submitted my packet. I think the two are independent - you don't need to have a packet finished to schedule your MEPS. Just call or email your recruiter to check in - they do have a lot of stuff to take care of.
 
It didn't take much time (less than a week) to set up a MEPS date for me after I submitted my packet. I think the two are independent - you don't need to have a packet finished to schedule your MEPS. Just call or email your recruiter to check in - they do have a lot of stuff to take care of.
Yeah, this is largely going to depend on 1) how busy your state is with AMEDD packets and 2) how staffed your recruiting team is. In California right now, it's taking some folks 4-6 weeks from application submission to MEPS appointment.

Unfortunately, n618ft, there's not much you can do to hurry the process other than weekly pings to your recruiter.
 
It didn't take much time (less than a week) to set up a MEPS date for me after I submitted my packet. I think the two are independent - you don't need to have a packet finished to schedule your MEPS. Just call or email your recruiter to check in - they do have a lot of stuff to take care of.

It looks like I'm set right now actually - they said I needed my medical read approved and it seems like it just got it (as they said it was still in process last week.) It might have to do with a couple small surgeries I had (absolutely nothing disqualifying). Hooah!
 
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Tangential questions:

Anyone know the shortest AD commitment a physician (post residency) can take?

Part of the appeal of ASR for me is that I have the option of trying out AD later on, if I want, without having to worry about the 8 year MSO.

Also, can ASR folks apply to the military medicine match if they want (I assume it comes with a 1 for 1 AD commitment afterwards)?
 
On the topic, anyone looked into trying to go to one of the fun bits of military training? Something like airborne school?

I know it's possible because a dentist in my state went. You just have to meet the fitness requirements and get a spot.
 
I probably already know the answer to this question, but am still going to ask it. What if you don't meet the weight requirements? I am not too much over, but just can't drop the weight for some reason. Other than that, I easily meet all of the physical requirements for push-ups, sit-ups, and running. I'm just a little irked that these few extra pounds won't go away and am hoping that maybe the answer I get isn't the one I am expecting. Thanks in advance.
 
I probably already know the answer to this question, but am still going to ask it. What if you don't meet the weight requirements? I am not too much over, but just can't drop the weight for some reason. Other than that, I easily meet all of the physical requirements for push-ups, sit-ups, and running. I'm just a little irked that these few extra pounds won't go away and am hoping that maybe the answer I get isn't the one I am expecting. Thanks in advance.

You could be taped and if OK there get in, but weight requirements are not waiverable.
 
I probably already know the answer to this question, but am still going to ask it. What if you don't meet the weight requirements? I am not too much over, but just can't drop the weight for some reason. Other than that, I easily meet all of the physical requirements for push-ups, sit-ups, and running. I'm just a little irked that these few extra pounds won't go away and am hoping that maybe the answer I get isn't the one I am expecting. Thanks in advance.

Google Army Body Fat and see what you can find. There are spreadsheets and different tools out there, or you can just get the formula and work it out yourself.

http://www.armystudyguide.com/conte...eight_control/automated-body-fat-conten.shtml
 
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I want to apply for this program but don't know who to contact. I live in Georgia. Can anyone PM me the contact info for a recruiter? Thanks!
 
Hi all -

OK, so I have been around the whole Army HPSP / Army National Guard application process since about April 2008 - finally, after a few roadblocks it looks like I am on my way with ASR in NY.

I do have one question that I was hoping someone might be able to answer ... I am wondering how my future residency interviewers / program directors will look upon the fact that I do have a commitment to the NG and that I would disappear for a weekend here and there (and once a year for an extended period of time) over the course of my residency. Has anyone had any experience with PDs in any specialty and what their thoughts are about residents in the Guard?

On a separate, less important note (for me, right now anyways), does anyone know the policy RE: fellowships for Guard members? I know about the protection from deployment while in residency - and I understand that the same doesn't apply to fellows, but does anyone know what the chances are of uninterrupted fellowship training?
 
Hi all -

OK, so I have been around the whole Army HPSP / Army National Guard application process since about April 2008 - finally, after a few roadblocks it looks like I am on my way with ASR in NY.

I do have one question that I was hoping someone might be able to answer ... I am wondering how my future residency interviewers / program directors will look upon the fact that I do have a commitment to the NG and that I would disappear for a weekend here and there (and once a year for an extended period of time) over the course of my residency. Has anyone had any experience with PDs in any specialty and what their thoughts are about residents in the Guard?

I e-mailed the program director of one of the big name programs of the most competetive residency (a surgical-subspecialty) that I was interested in. The reply was that it shouldn't be an issue (though I wonder if they could even legally admit otherwise). On the other hand, I've had numerous residents and attendings say residencies want the best resident possible and having to share you with the military takes away from your applicaiton. In the end, it's probably entirely program dependent. I'm sure there are programs out there where being a woman or minority can still hurt your application.

On a separate, less important note (for me, right now anyways), does anyone know the policy RE: fellowships for Guard members? I know about the protection from deployment while in residency - and I understand that the same doesn't apply to fellows, but does anyone know what the chances are of uninterrupted fellowship training?

You can probably ask for it, but it's certainly not guaranteed and I doubt it's very likely. At that point, I imagine you've spent far too long in training for the Guard to agree delaying getting some work out of you. Protection during residency (past intern year) isn't even guaranteed to my knowledge. Personally, I'm going in with the assumption that my residency will be interupted. Is it likely? No. But I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than dissapointed.

Unless I'm mistaken, the only thing in your contract (and enforced by all practicality) is three years of AD pay/benefits and protection from federal deployment until you get your license. I'd be wary of expecting more...
 
I am wondering how my future residency interviewers / program directors will look upon the fact that I do have a commitment to the NG and that I would disappear for a weekend here and there (and once a year for an extended period of time) over the course of my residency. Has anyone had any experience with PDs in any specialty and what their thoughts are about residents in the Guard?
Use the "search this thread" command at the top of the thread and put in "residency". You'll get some hits, but some will link to discussion about your topic from months ago. PD's opinions about your commitment will vary.
does anyone know the policy RE: fellowships for Guard members? I know about the protection from deployment while in residency - and I understand that the same doesn't apply to fellows, but does anyone know what the chances are of uninterrupted fellowship training?
Protection from fellowship training is decided on a case-by-case basis. I would think you'd be less likely to be deployed that someone not in training, but if they need you bad enough, I doubt they'd hesitate much to yank you. Regardless, you'd still have your spot held for you in the residency by law.
 
Hi everyone-

I know the ASR program has been very popular. I started the application process last year and because of some family problems deferred medical school a year, but now we're all go. I have a couple questions. I know that you have to be sworn in before you even submit a formal application to ASR. What happens if you join the Guard assuming you'll get an ASR spot and then they are either all full for the fiscal year or you're denied? Are you then committed w/o the deployment protections during school, etc.? Is getting an ASR sport automatic after getting in, even if you have to wait for the start of the new fiscal year?

The other thing I'm wondering is if there is a national level recruiter that can submit my packet? My packet never ended up going in a year ago, but the recruiter I was working with was extremely difficult. Forgot appointments, never answered questions, tried to schedule my MEPS in a state 1000 miles away because he/she forgot where I lived, told me to contact the local recruiter who then informed me that was wrong and he would speak with he/she to explain how to do things...just curious if I have to work with the local recruiter or if I can work with someone on a national level. Thanks!
 
1. As far as I can tell, the National Guard offers the following distinct programs. Is this correct?
You are correct. MDSSP and ASR are for medical students. STRAP is for residents. HPLRP are for docs. Keep in mind that you can participate in multiple programs. If I decide to make a career out of the Guard, I'll be taking HPLRP even though I'm already taking ASR.
2. I'm entering medical school starting next year (class of 2014)--I just read that the Air National Guard doesn't have an ASR program. What programs does the ANG have that are comparable in attractiveness to the ARNG?
There's no equivalent to the ASR program. The Air National Guard has the equivalent of the HPLRP (though I don't know the exact amounts) and something like STRAP (though it's only $900/mo). I don't know of any programs for med students. I'd call one of their recruiters.
3. I've been told by friends in the military that the ANG (or Navy Reserve) are much better than the ARNG; apparently the ANG and Navy Reserve have a lower chance of deployment. What do you know about this?
I know nothing about the Air National Guard or their deployment tempo. It's not an attractive proposition for medical students, so it's not on my radar.

In terms of the reserve forces, the Naval reserve docs were getting pulled up for 12 month deployments while the Guard was getting deployed for 90 days, when I was looking into each program.

Be very careful about what "friends in the military" say. You need to talk to doctors. The deployment tempo and length of a National Guard doctor is VERY different from that of the guy pulling the trigger. Likewise, the tempo/length of naval deployments will be very different from the Navy doctor and the enlisted guy.
4. There are 200 spots open in the ASR program of the ARNG and the military year started in October, correct? How does one apply? Thanks a lot!
The 200 spots are down to under 50 right now. If you want to apply you need to scramble. Additional spots will supposedly be opening up as folks leave the program, though I don't think anyone is totally sure how long that will be for.

If you're interested in applying, let us know what state you'll be going to medical school in. If it's one of our states, we can help you. If it's not, we can either find out who it is or send you to a great national recruiter.
 
I know that you have to be sworn in before you even submit a formal application to ASR.
No, you can apparently get a control number issued to you prior to swear in. It won't happen until just prior to your commissioning, obviously.
Is getting an ASR sport automatic after getting in, even if you have to wait for the start of the new fiscal year?
An ASR spot is automatic once you have a control number. Not before then. Once you get your control number, you're golden.

Control numbers aren't competitive. They're issued to folks requesting them. They're just short in quantity.
The other thing I'm wondering is if there is a national level recruiter that can submit my packet? My packet never ended up going in a year ago, but the recruiter I was working with was extremely difficult. Forgot appointments, never answered questions, tried to schedule my MEPS in a state 1000 miles away because he/she forgot where I lived, told me to contact the local recruiter who then informed me that was wrong and he would speak with he/she to explain how to do things...just curious if I have to work with the local recruiter or if I can work with someone on a national level. Thanks!
There is someone at the national level that's handled the processing of paperwork and appllications, but eventually, he has to turn you over to the local recruiter, usually at the process of MEPS.

To be honest, if you were working with a recruiter to the point of MEPS, you're already in the system and your packet has been submitted. The national recruiter can't help you. You have to deal with your state folks.

If you want to post your state, if some of us know folks there, we might be able to help. If you're uncomfortable doing so, no worries. Sorry for your troubles...
 
Thanks for responding to my post; I talked to an ARNG recruiter today and will meet face-to-face with him next week.
If this guy isn't an AMEDD recruiter, I would ask him to introduce you to one. Universally, general Guard recruiters have been zero use to folks interested in the ASR program. Make sure you're talking to an AMEDD recruiter or else you'll get no or bad info.
They say that the best branches to join in the national guard are:

ANG>Navy Reserve>ARNG.
Sigh... This is why I'm worried about either the information you're getting or how you're interpreting it. The Navy Reserve is NOT part of the National Guard. There's the Air Guard and the Army Guard. No Navy Guard. The Navy has a Reserves corps, which is totally different. The Army has a Reserves corps too, which is completely different from the Army National Guard.
They are very knowledgeable and have told me that the army is known for not fulfilling their commitments--witness the stop loss orders overseas.
If they think that the Navy Reserves is part of the National Guard, I'd question how knowledgeable they are.... As for stop loss orders, I've never heard of this happening to a doctor in any service. Like I said, careful about inferences made from what you hear about how folks pulling the trigger are treated vs. docs.
2. The recruiter for the ARNG said that you are non deployable for medical school *and* residency. (not just intern year)
Agreed. The policy paperwork indicates that folks in residency programs are exempt from deployment.
However, there might be a clause that says, "The army's needs supersedes the above contract stipulations"
You're talking about the military. The same folks who draft people. Everything you know about ASR (or HPSP or STRAP or FAP) can be changed if WWIII pops up.
3. How are there only 50 spots left? If I understand correctly, the military year only started in October and you need to have been accepted to a medical school to apply. Many (most?) have not been accepted to medical school yet.
115 (ish) slots were taken up for the 01OCT start. Some by new applicants, some by folks who were waiting for the new fiscal year to start. The October and November board were very busy too.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that unless new slots are opened up by folks leaving the program, the remaining slots will be gone with the January board, or February at the latest. Just a hunch.
4. Yes, please put me in contact with a "great national recruiter" There is a 99% chance that I will be attending medical school in Michigan. Thanks a lot!
If you're already speaking to a recruiter and meeting up with him next week, jumping over to another one is poor form. See how the one you're working with turns out.
 
1. I know that there is no navy guard. (my sources are currently in the national guard, are physicians, have spent many years (30?) in the military, and are very competent)
They say that the best branches to join in the national guard are:

ANG>Navy Reserve>ARNG
.
Your posting gives the impression that either you or your sources think the Navy Reserve is part of the National Guard. Not sure where the confusion came from, but it sounds like you're on the right page now. I want to make sure no one else is confused. If the Guard had a program with boats, I'd be all over it.

2. So there is no flexible drilling policy? The recruiter said that it is up to the discretion of the commanding officer but a precious post (page 4?) said that one has to drill once a month.
Yes there is a "Flexi-Training" drill policy, in which folks in ASR can drill as infrequently as once every three months, but this policy is up to the discretion of the CO.

Some folks do not drill at all. In some states, they come in to the armory once every three months and study. In other states, you're expected to drill every month unless you have a valid reason not to (Step I, a final, etc.) in which case you can drill as infrequently as once every third month.

I have never heard of any state in which ASR members were denied the ability to do flexi-training. You can meet with your CO prior to signing to confirm.
Does anybody have objective data (or anecdotal) saying what % of people are deployed or how many agreements are broken.
No one from ASR has been pulled to be deployed. We tried to find if anyone in the Guard protected from deployment during residency was activated and we haven't been able to confirm any (and frankly, I would think we'd be able to find out; docs are like cats and tend to make lots of noise when they're dirty).

But it's the military. If you're looking for a contract that can't be modified or changed by anything this side of God, do not join the military in any form.
There is a reason that they are offering so much....TINSTAAFL (There is no such thing as a free lunch)
Yes, for $50K/year they get someone to act as a recruiter. You can recruit med students a lot easier as an ASR than some full-time Army NCO who's never been through med school. You're also going to be in the Guard in drilling status as a doctor for three years minimum.

And the National Guard has a great retention rate, so of all us ASRs out there, a good few are going to make careers out of it. Being a doc in the Guard is a pretty good deal. It's not like active duty.

But in the National Guard, your job is to defend your community, your state, and your country. This means domestic missions helping out during natural disasters and rarely (these wars are fairly rare exceptions) be sent internationally to help serve your country. If these are non-palatable possibilities, do not join the National Guard.
 
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there are how many medical schools across 50 states?
200 slots per year (up to 600 total) and there are 50 left for the fiscal
year that started a month ago? and your job is to be a 'recruiter'?

that's kind of funny. 🙂 in a good way.

:laugh:
 
Does anyone know the future plans for the program?
Such as...how many more years are left, if rotc cadet who commission through army rotc can apply ?

I am currently air force rotc, but i am totally willing to switch to army rotc if it will give me and edge in applying for this program and if it will be around for another couple years.
 
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Just because there are, let's just say 50 slots left open today, does not mean that there will only be 50 slots open for the future. I was told that the national guard sets aside three years worth of pay for each slot. However, not every person is using all three years. Most PA schools are only 2 years and that's all that they'll be able to take. So the extra year of pay that is left by him not taking ASR for the third year goes back to the pool. Some people joing ASR their 3rd or 4th year of med school, and not using all the money assigned to that slot. The alloted ASR money does not go back to the govt, so it will be used up by new students. So as there individuals graduate or leave the program, new spots are opening up depending on the number of cash left in the pool.
 
Well I guess I should grab a set of ACU's just in case I need a uniform for whatever reason. What all constitutes a set of ACUs?

I'm guess I should grab:

a pair of boots
a pair of trousers,
a coat,
a hat (beret I'm assuming, maybe a patrol cap too?)
a belt
2-3 t-shirts
2-3 pairs of socks

Am I missing anything clothings wise? What all do we need in terms of tapes? (I would guess name, branch, and rank.)

What route did you all go with boots? On one hand I'm tempted to get the nicest pair I can just because they do miracles for being comfortable. On the other hand it makes sence to get the cheapest pair of decent boots and buy some goods ones when I'm out of school and morel ikely to actually need them.
 
I'd go for the patrol cap over the beret - the beret is functionally useless in terms of keeping the sun out of the eyes and everybody says it's a pain to wear, so I haven't bought it myself. Will probably purchase it before OBLC though.

Your list of stuff (including tapes) looks good. There are good reviews of boots on http://www.nationalguard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10736
I went with the Oakleys. After a few months, the fit in the left boot started rubbing the skin a little, so mixed feelings about my purchase.
 
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