Army promotion rate to major?

[residentphysician20]

I've always had the understanding that promotion to major is "guaranteed/automatic" in the army medical corps after six years as a captain as long as one stays out of trouble. Is this still the case? I heard that starting this year, the promotion rate from captain to major is 95% best qualified, which means 5% of doctors will not be promoted to major.

Granted, my HPSP obligation means my ADSO will probably be close to over by the time I meet the requirements for promotion to major. But I may want to stay beyond my commitment and potentially stay until retirement, and the thought of being stuck as a captain years after residency is not very palatable, to say the least.

Has anyone heard anything about the promotion change this year?

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[Chonal Atresia]

I've always had the understanding that promotion to major is "guaranteed/automatic" in the army medical corps after six years as a captain as long as one stays out of trouble. Is this still the case? I heard that starting this year, the promotion rate from captain to major is 95% best qualified, which means 5% of doctors will not be promoted to major.

Granted, my HPSP obligation means my ADSO will probably be close to over by the time I meet the requirements for promotion to major. But I may want to stay beyond my commitment and potentially stay until retirement, and the thought of being stuck as a captain years after residency is not very palatable, to say the least.

Has anyone heard anything about the promotion change this year?

Promotion to major is guaranteed as long as you don’t fail the PT test.

> 90% of all physicians that enter the military leave after their initial ADSO is up so promotion to all ranks in the medical corps (O-4, O-5 and O-6) is easy, as long as you play their stupid game (CCC, ILE, CSWC, deployments, etc).

Those physicians that don’t play the game generally could care less about promotion and GTFO ASAP.

 

[residentphysician20]

Promotion to major is guaranteed as long as you don’t fail the PT test.

> 90% of all physicians that enter the military leave after their initial ADSO is up so promotion to all ranks in the medical corps (O-4, O-5 and O-6) is easy, as long as you play their stupid game (CCC, ILE, CSWC, deployments, etc).

Those physicians that don’t play the game generally could care less about promotion and GTFO ASAP.

Thanks for the response Chonal Atresia

I certainly hope that promotion to O-4 remains automatic as long as there are no derogatory marks.

I do know that promotion rates can vary from year to year, so the 95% best qualified criteria this year may have been a fluke. Regardless, it'll be another few years before I am eligible for promotion, and there's no telling what may happen at that time.

 

[Dr. Wexler]

Promotion to major is guaranteed as long as you don’t fail the PT test.

No longer the case. Most recent board was "best qualified" not "fully qualified". 93% selection rate.

 

[armytrainingsir]

If you're not a total d-bag you should be fine.

Even a 93% pass rate is pretty good when you think about those that cant pass height/weight, cant pass PT test, or are unlikeable enough to get really dinged on a couple of OERs leading up to the board. Heck, 9-15% of US adults have a personality disorder, so there is your 7% right there.

Regardless, if the criteria has changed, nothing you can do about it other than don't be a jerk, don't have second helpings, and make sure you can run in circles in the allotted time.

Good luck.

 

[residentphysician20]

No longer the case. Most recent board was "best qualified" not "fully qualified". 93% selection rate.

Could you elaborate a bit on what exactly the terms "best qualified" and "fully qualified" means?

Does "fully qualified" mean every single captain in the medical corps who has served as least 6 years in grade? Or does the fully qualified category ALREADY excludes individuals with negative marks on their record - such as PT failures, negative counseling, etc?

And if it's "best qualified" does it mean that certain individuals who are promotable (meeting the fully qualified criteria) will never get promoted simply because of a number cut-off?

In other words is it 93% of captains who have clean records or is it 93% of total captains?

 

[armytrainingsir]

My understanding is 'fully qualified' is TIG and no active adverse actions( ie not flagged for PT, fatty, PME meets requirement, etc)
'Best qualified' is that plus PME above and beyond, no bad OERs, ie your bosses actually want to you promoted and given more authority and pay

A union demands everyone that is fully qualified be promoted.
A meritocracy demands that only those best qualified be promoted.

The army states they want to be a meritocracy and not a union. (please hold your laughter until the end of my presentation, k? thx)

This article explains its implementation in the enlisted ranks.

Army makes big changes to centralized promotion board system

The Army is revising its centralized promotion board processes to deliver

www.army.mil

 

[Vandalia]

Could you elaborate a bit on what exactly the terms "best qualified" and "fully qualified" means?

Does "fully qualified" mean every single captain in the medical corps who has served as least 6 years in grade? Or does the fully qualified category ALREADY excludes individuals with negative marks on their record - such as PT failures, negative counseling, etc?

And if it's "best qualified" does it mean that certain individuals who are promotable (meeting the fully qualified criteria) will never get promoted simply because of a number cut-off?

In other words is it 93% of captains who have clean records or is it 93% of total captains?

"Fully qualified" is like medical school graduation. If you meet the requirements, you graduate. Doesn't matter if that is two people or two hundred.

"Best qualified" is like getting a residency spot. You are competing against others for a fixed number of positions which will generally be less than the number of applicants.

The 93% is determined based on the number that meet the requirements for the board. That is, for this example, Captains in that year group; t will include people who were court-martialed, whatever. As long as they are in that year group.

As mentioned, if you take out those court-martialed but not dismissed, multiple Article 15's, lost privileges, etc., you pretty much already have the 7% who won't get promoted.

 

[TheEarDoc]

Not so in the guard/reserves. The recent promotions rates for 0-4, 0-5, and 0-6 have been the worst they've been in AMEDD ever! I think we are seeing a huge reduction in force for AMEDD that hasn't occurred before and I am not sure if it's the threat of purple medicine or more the fact we are winding down from two wars or a combination of both. I would have thought with COVID the powers that be would have learned the actual utility of AMEDD especially in the reserve/guard forces, but who knows.

I just know several amazing officers in nurse corps, specialist corps, and service corps who all got passed over in zone for 0-4 and some for 0-5 who were above zone and got passed over.

I think unless something changes the checking the boxes and no adverse actions is not going to be enough to get 0-4 and above.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

Not so in the guard/reserves. The recent promotions rates for 0-4, 0-5, and 0-6 have been the worst they've been in AMEDD ever! I think we are seeing a huge reduction in force for AMEDD that hasn't occurred before and I am not sure if it's the threat of purple medicine or more the fact we are winding down from two wars or a combination of both. I would have thought with COVID the powers that be would have learned the actual utility of AMEDD especially in the reserve/guard forces, but who knows.

I just know several amazing officers in nurse corps, specialist corps, and service corps who all got passed over in zone for 0-4 and some for 0-5 who were above zone and got passed over.

I think unless something changes the checking the boxes and no adverse actions is not going to be enough to get 0-4 and above.

I would venture to say the medical corps is much different than the medical service corps, nursing corps, etc (ie much easier to get promoted because > 90% of physicians high tail it out of the military ASAP because of much better opportunities in civilian medicine). Less physicians means less competition.

Maybe I am wrong but glad I’m not around to find out.

 

[Dr. Wexler]

I would have thought with COVID the powers that be would have learned the actual utility of AMEDD especially in the reserve/guard forces, but who knows.

The good AMEDD did was mostly limited to non physicians doing testing and immunization.

AFAIK the idea to mobilize RC physicians (who were almost exclusively already working as physicians in their civilian life) in large #s was squashed once they realized such a move would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Thank goodness.

The AD physician "deployments" that I am aware of did not treat many patients.

 

[armytrainingsir]

MC is a different beast not only to the army as a while, but to the rest of AMEDD, no doubt.

AMEDD is overstrength in most everything except MDs, CRNAs and maybe PAs. So it is no surprise those boards are competitive.

 

[Mace1370]

It is surprising because MC is composed of only MDs and DOs and because these boards have not been competitive since basically forever. People are entering training and signing up for large commitments with the understanding of a certain compensation in return for said commitment. This kind of "altering the deal" isn't strictly against the rules, but it is supremely disappointing.

 

[Baron Samedi]

The only folks who I haven't seen make O-4 had serious pending judicial issues.

O-5 and O-6 have been trending more competitive. It doesn't seem to be quite as much a given as it was previously.

 

[armytrainingsir]

The AD physician "deployments" that I am aware of did not treat many patients.

Never let the lack of actual patient care get in the way of a good award’s bullet point!

😂

 

[TheEarDoc]

I would venture to say the medical corps is much different than the medical service corps, nursing corps, etc (ie much easier to get promoted because > 90% of physicians high tail it out of the military ASAP because of much better opportunities in civilian medicine). Less physicians means less competition.

Maybe I am wrong but glad I’m not around to find out.

I think what’s going to be the problem if they keep having such poor promotion potential is people will do their bare minimum commitment to get what scraps of compensation they want and pop smoke. Then it will become a revolving door of untrained providers who are not in medical corps. I think some people aren’t looking at the long game of all the specialities and services medical service corps and specialty corps bring to the table. The whole point of the reserves is having that pool of highly skilled civilian and military ready soldiers/providers to pull from when they need them. I have feeling if things keep going this way and the next 9/11 happens once again the armed forces will be caught with its pants around its ankles and scrambling to get the providers it needs. Just my opinion as a lowly 0-3 with about 4 times the amount of civilian career experience as military experience.

 

[Trefoil]

I think what’s going to be the problem if they keep having such poor promotion potential is people will do their bare minimum commitment to get what scraps of compensation they want and pop smoke. Then it will become a revolving door of untrained providers who are not in medical corps. I think some people aren’t looking at the long game of all the specialities and services medical service corps and specialty corps bring to the table. The whole point of the reserves is having that pool of highly skilled civilian and military ready soldiers/providers to pull from when they need them. I have feeling if things keep going this way and the next 9/11 happens once again the armed forces will be caught with its pants around its ankles and scrambling to get the providers it needs. Just my opinion as a lowly 0-3 with about 4 times the amount of civilian career experience as military experience.

I think that mentality is shared amongst most of us, but in the end, if they decrease MC slots they can increase infantry slots, and most of the people moving the pebbles are infantry officers who want more infantry slots. It isn’t immediately obvious to them why we exist until a full scale war breaks out, and you need medical support

 

[TheEarDoc]

I think that mentality is shared amongst most of us, but in the end, if they decrease MC slots they can increase infantry slots, and most of the people moving the pebbles are infantry officers who want more infantry slots. It isn’t immediately obvious to them why we exist until a full scale war breaks out, and you need medical support

Sadly you are correct. When you have full time green suiters having to explain to the command of a base why your specialty is needed and why it can't simply be farmed out to the private sector near base, it just makes you realize how little the folks in charge understand the mission and services that AMEDD offers. Sadly I think when a major conflict jumps off we will be in the same boat were were in post 9/11 where they are going to be hammering some specialties with mobilization and deployment over and over again and giving out huge bonuses to get anyone to sign on the dotted line. It's just a constant cycle.

 

[Trefoil]

Sadly you are correct. When you have full time green suiters having to explain to the command of a base why your specialty is needed and why it can't simply be farmed out to the private sector near base, it just makes you realize how little the folks in charge understand the mission and services that AMEDD offers. Sadly I think when a major conflict jumps off we will be in the same boat were were in post 9/11 where they are going to be hammering some specialties with mobilization and deployment over and over again and giving out huge bonuses to get anyone to sign on the dotted line. It's just a constant cycle.

True, but I think they are basing all of these decisions off of Iraq and Afghanistan. Those were relatively small scale conflicts. The decision to establish the current medical infrastructure was formed in the Vietnam era in response to a lack of physicians generally. The Vietnam war had more casualties than Iraq or Afghanistan, but it pales in comparison to WWII. The types of conflicts they are worried about are with China and Russia. A war with either China or Russia would produce far more casualties than Vietnam. The need for medical personnel would be immense and without a doc specific draft, the numbers wouldn’t be there.

 

[TheEarDoc]

True, but I think they are basing all of these decisions off of Iraq and Afghanistan. Those were relatively small scale conflicts. The decision to establish the current medical infrastructure was formed in the Vietnam era in response to a lack of physicians generally. The Vietnam war had more casualties than Iraq or Afghanistan, but it pales in comparison to WWII. The types of conflicts they are worried about are with China and Russia. A war with either China or Russia would produce far more casualties than Vietnam. The need for medical personnel would be immense and without a doc specific draft, the numbers wouldn’t be there.

You are correct. Unfortunately government is usually reactionary rather proactive. I foresee a lot of mobilizations and deployments for reserve/guard if anything kicks off.

 

[molarballer]

The only folks who I haven't seen make O-4 had serious pending judicial issues.

O-5 and O-6 have been trending more competitive. It doesn't seem to be quite as much a given as it was previously.

Are we talking about articles 15/LoC and the likes?

Or would that include stuff like malpractice lawsuits too? Especially now that military docs can be sued by military members. But makes me wonder if the promotion would ever be privy to that information.

 

[pgg]

Or would that include stuff like malpractice lawsuits too? Especially now that military docs can be sued by military members. But makes me wonder if the promotion would ever be privy to that information.

It's not really correct that "military docs can be sued by military members" ... military members can now sue the government, whereas until recently only dependents/retirees could do so. The individual doctor was not and is not at personal financial risk.

I can't conjure a scenario in which an episode of malpractice would be known to the promotion board, unless it was something so crazy and egregious that it got mentioned on a fitness report. If that's the case you've got bigger problems than not pinning on the next rank.