ARNG During Residency

[EsTxDr]

I have searched through the topics and found some good information. But as quickly as things change I was curious if anyone has any recent experience with the ARNG during residency. I'm a 4th year currently and looking at National Guard during residency.

I'm open to suggestions, experiences, both positive and negative. I want to serve for the sake of serving but am also interested in the benefits and opportunities. Any updated information, ideas, experiences would be greatly appreciated.

For instance, any of you serving currently during residency? Do you find it stressful? Is the stipend worth the commitment? Are there opportunities to train during residency? Is that feasible? Are there requirements on your time during residency? I have contacted a recruiter but would love to hear you guys thoughts and experiences as well.

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[EsTxDr]

So let me clarify my questions a bit to help with responses. My decision to serve is made. So the question is not should I join, but what programs and benefits can I take advantage of.

I have yet to get an ARNG AMEDD recruiter to get back with me, so let me pose a few specific questions and see if you guys can help answer them for me. I am researching and debating STRAP vs HPLRP (or a combination as detailed in other threads).

1) Medical Professional Officer Special Pay. Is this available to residents or only to practicing physicians?
2) If available to residents can it be combined with STRAP or HPLRP?
3) Both STRAP and HPLRP carry a tax burden I assume? If so, does anyone know how the burden would differ if at all between the programs? It seems they would be pretty similar as far as annual income goes but I'm no tax genius.
4) HPLRP. Can this be taken alone during residency? The obligation would be 1:1 so for a 3 year EM residency I would be obligated to 3 years? Assuming the remaining 5 would be IRR? Is that correct?
5) Sort of a different angle, anyone know if tricare (reserve select I assume) is available to families while taking STRAP or HPLRP?

Thanks in advance.

 

[notdeadyet]

For instance, any of you serving currently during residency? Do you find it stressful?

Yes. No. You are non-deployable, so it's a weekend of work, but it's not really any more stressful than residency. Your life prior to getting licensed is fairly busy-work, after that it depends on your role and unit.

Is the stipend worth the commitment?

I didn't take the stipend. Personally, I think that for a 2:1 commitment, I wouldn't do it for the money. I think financially you'd be better off not taking the commitment and taking the $240K in HPLRP rather than take STRAP and have to defer HPLRP until you have STRAP paid back six years post-residency (assuming you're in a 3 year residency).

Are there opportunities to train during residency? Is that feasible?

What kind of training do you have in mind?

Are there requirements on your time during residency?

Yes. 1 weekend per month and a 2 week annual training per year. You will likely be under "flexi-training" which means you can miss as much as every other drill if need be.

 

[notdeadyet]

1) Medical Professional Officer Special Pay. Is this available to residents or only to practicing physicians?

Special Pay is only post-residency. You can take it and HPLRP consecutively, not concurrently.

3) Both STRAP and HPLRP carry a tax burden I assume? If so, does anyone know how the burden would differ if at all between the programs? It seems they would be pretty similar as far as annual income goes but I'm no tax genius.

Talk to your accountant. STRAP is taxed like FAP or any other stipend. HPLRP goes directly to wipe out student debt, but it counts as $40K, which bumps up your income level, which likely obligates you to higher income tax. Again, accountant question. I'm not taking HPLRP.

4) HPLRP. Can this be taken alone during residency? The obligation would be 1:1 so for a 3 year EM residency I would be obligated to 3 years? Assuming the remaining 5 would be IRR? Is that correct?

For most folks, HPLRP is only taken after residency. $40K is taken off of your loans each year you take it. You can not take it while paying off any other obligation (such as STRAP).

The one exception is if you take STRAP during residency. In this case, during your PGY-3 year and beyond, you can take HPLRP while taking STRAP. But after residency, you will still need to pay back STRAP and can't take HPLRP any further while you do.

For you, your options of joining would be:

1. Join without STRAP. Serve 3 years. Take HPLRP after finishing residency. You could pay off $200K in student loans by the time you finished five years post residency. If you wanted to pull the plug early, you could leave drilling status in as little as 3 years post-residency and serve 2 years in IRR.

2. Join with STRAP. Serve 3 years getting the stipend. Owe the Guard 6 years drilling status post-residency. You can take HPLRP, but not while paying back STRAP.

5) Sort of a different angle, anyone know if tricare (reserve select I assume) is available to families while taking STRAP or HPLRP?

Guardsmen and Reservists can opt in for Tricare. I don't know anyone who did, because their hospital benefits for their family were better and cheaper-to-free. Might be different for private or small community residencies though.

Hope this helps...

 

[EsTxDr]

Thanks for the response.

I didn't take the stipend. Personally, I think that for a 2:1 commitment, I wouldn't do it for the money. I think financially you'd be better off not taking the commitment and taking the $240K in HPLRP rather than take STRAP and have to defer HPLRP until you have STRAP paid back six years post-residency (assuming you're in a 3 year residency).

This speaks to # 4 in my above post. Am I to assume HPLRP is then available to residents? The obligation is 1:1 with the loan "payment" arriving at the end of the obligation year. So technically I could take HPLRP for one year and not the next with no further obligation?

What kind of training do you have in mind?

Mostly thinking of the officer training. I would be interested in any further training with regards to military medicine but thats a secondary issue.

Yes. 1 weekend per month and a 2 week annual training per year. You will likely be under "flexi-training" which means you can miss as much as every other drill if need be.

Am I misinformed or can your drilling be satisfied with certain types of training you might receive in residency anyway? For instance, I spoke with a resident who said he would go to conferences, etc and fill out "paperwork" to get that counted as his drill commitment, etc.

 

[EsTxDr]

Sorry to keep leapfrogging your posts.

For you, your options of joining would be:

1. Join without STRAP. Serve 3 years. Take HPLRP after finishing residency. You could pay off $200K in student loans by the time you finished five years post residency. If you wanted to pull the plug early, you could leave drilling status in as little as 3 years post-residency and serve 2 years in IRR.

2. Join with STRAP. Serve 3 years getting the stipend. Owe the Guard 6 years drilling status post-residency. You can take HPLRP, but not while paying back STRAP.

Does joining without STRAP still make you non-deployable status?

Hope this helps...

It does, I really appreciate it.

 

[notdeadyet]

Am I to assume HPLRP is then available to residents? The obligation is 1:1 with the loan "payment" arriving at the end of the obligation year. So technically I could take HPLRP for one year and not the next with no further obligation?

No. HPLRP is only available to folks after residency. You sign a form on July 1st and if you're still drilling 1 year later, you get $40K of federal student loans wiped out.

You must be in full unrestricted drilling status (meaning, not in residency training). The only exception is for folks already taking STRAP (as I explained above). Otherwise, if you owe STRAP (2 years for every 1 year of benefits in residency, to be paid back after residency), you can not pay back that obligation while taking HPLRP.

Mostly thinking of the officer training. I would be interested in any further training with regards to military medicine but thats a secondary issue.

You will be required to attend BOLC, an officer school. Just under 4 weeks, very easy. Interesting learning. Beyond that, how much military training you do will depend on state, command, and specialty.

Am I misinformed or can your drilling be satisfied with certain types of training you might receive in residency anyway? For instance, I spoke with a resident who said he would go to conferences, etc and fill out "paperwork" to get that counted as his drill commitment, etc.

What constitutes "drill" for residents varies a lot by state and command. In most, you are under "flexi-training" which means you only drill every two months if needed. In some, you can get paid for drill occasionally when you're actually working your residency job or going to a conference (what you're referring to, called a SUTA).

I would plan on drilling every 2 months and if you luck into a command that lets you not show up regularly, it's a bonus.

 

[notdeadyet]

Does joining without STRAP still make you non-deployable status?

Any resident is in non-deployable status. STRAP doesn't matter.

This is not contactual, this is policy, which means it can change. But it didn't even at the height of OEF/OIF, so I wouldn't be that worried. And if they changed the policy, STRAP vs. non-STRAP wouldn't matter. It's the residency status that protects from deployment, not the incentive plan.

 

[EsTxDr]

Thanks for the response and information. Its been a huge help. In light of your last couple of posts, let me ask you a few questions.

For you, your options of joining would be:

1. Join without STRAP. Serve 3 years. Take HPLRP after finishing residency. You could pay off $200K in student loans by the time you finished five years post residency. If you wanted to pull the plug early, you could leave drilling status in as little as 3 years post-residency and serve 2 years in IRR.

2. Join with STRAP. Serve 3 years getting the stipend. Owe the Guard 6 years drilling status post-residency. You can take HPLRP, but not while paying back STRAP.

As far as option #1 goes:

1. What is the benefit of this over waiting until after residency and taking HPLRP or special pay bonuses, etc? Obviously I would be serving, but during residency it sounds like "serving" isn't actually doing a whole lot
2. I assume these 3 years would count toward promotion / retirement?
3. Are you eligible for special pay bonuses, retention bonuses before your IRR years are served? For instance, in your example if I pulled the plug early to get out in 3 years would I then be eligible or have to wait until after my IRR years are served?

Just trying to figure out if this route would be more financially beneficial than STRAP. Again, this is all secondary to my decision to serve, I'm just trying to look at all the options and choose whats best for me.

 

[notdeadyet]

As far as option #1 goes:

1. What is the benefit of this over waiting until after residency and taking HPLRP or special pay bonuses, etc? Obviously I would be serving, but during residency it sounds like "serving" isn't actually doing a whole lot
2. I assume these 3 years would count toward promotion / retirement?

When you are commissioned as an officer, you are on for an 8 year obligation. In the Reserve Corps, this is 6 years of active drilling plus 2 years of IRR.

If you were to join during residency and did a 3 year residency, you would only owe 3 years of drilling post-residency. If you were to join after residency, you would owe 6 years drilling post-residency.

As for how much you are doing during residency, again, it depends on your specialty, command, and unit. The first 18 months of residency, your abilities are limited, since you don't have a medical license. But once you do, you function in your specialty. In other words, as an EM resident, you can fulfill the same duties as a BE/BC EM doc in the Reserve. The obvious and big exception is that you do not deploy. But with the current tempo, there is no certainty that you'd be deploying more than once every few years anyway and in between, you're doing the same job at drill. Make sense?

Your time in residency do count towards retirement and promotions.

1. Are you eligible for special pay bonuses, retention bonuses before your IRR years are served? For instance, in your example if I pulled the plug early to get out in 3 years would I then be eligible or have to wait until after my IRR years are served?

I'm not sure I understand your question. In example #1, after you finish residency, you could take 3 years of HPLRP (or Special Pay, but not both), and you would have served your six years active drilling. You could then serve out your last 2 years in IRR (but you could not take any bonuses during this time) or stay in as long as you wanted and continue to take HPLRP or SP for as long as you were legible (6 years HPLRP vs. 3 years SP minimum).

In example #2, you would have to finish residency, then serve 6 years post residency paying off your STRAP obligation, THEN start taking HPLRP or SP. Make sense?

 

[EsTxDr]

Great, once again thanks for the info. I actually think I'm going to end up going this route.

What I was attempting to ask was will the 2 IRR years still required of me stop me from taking another incentive program like retention bonuses, etc. For instance, if I joined for 3 years of residency (without incentive) took HPLRP for three years post residency. Would I then be able to take advantage of incentives or would my 2 IRR years need to be served first? Does that make any sense? Also, there aren't any problems taking HPLRP after serving 3 years during residency is there? For instance, its only available to non-prior service, or first time signers, etc?

A few other questions if I may?

1. Do you know of a good resource or list of medical ARNG units by state?
2. Do you know of a recent list of AMEDD recruier contact info? I have been unable to get a response from anyone.
3. Are there any signing bonuses, or officer accession bonuses, etc if singing up during residency that you know of (if not taking STRAP, etc)?

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.

 

[notdeadyet]

What I was attempting to ask was will the 2 IRR years still required of me stop me from taking another incentive program like retention bonuses, etc. For instance, if I joined for 3 years of residency (without incentive) took HPLRP for three years post residency. Would I then be able to take advantage of incentives or would my 2 IRR years need to be served first? Does that make any sense?

Ah, I see the confusion.

Every officer has an 8 year obligation. But different folks have different requirements to satisfy that. Some folks who join active duty may only have 4 years of service required. Some may have 7 years of drilling. When the requirements are less than 8 years, the remainder can be served by IRR. So for folks who join the Reserve Corps as officers and have a requirement of 6 years drilling, they can satisfy the last two years of their 8 year obligation by either continuing to drill, or IRR. If you satisfy them by continuing to drill, you can take HPLRP, Special Pay, etc. So in your case, if you did your three years in residency, afterwards, you could take up to 6 years of HPLRP and then 3 years of SP for as long as you kept drilling. Make sense?

Also, there aren't any problems taking HPLRP after serving 3 years during residency is there? For instance, its only available to non-prior service, or first time signers, etc?

No. Any doc in the Guard/Reserve is eligible for this. It is not an accession bonus, it is retention.

1. Do you know of a good resource or list of medical ARNG units by state?
2. Do you know of a recent list of AMEDD recruier contact info? I have been unable to get a response from anyone.

It's painful enough just to get a good list of units in my OWN state. I don't know any organized list that's complete.

I would go the usual route (call 800-Go-Guard) to get the latest for your state's AMEDD Officer recruiter. They usually have the most up to date info.

1. Are there any signing bonuses, or officer accession bonuses, etc if singing up during residency that you know of (if not taking STRAP, etc)?

Nope. The Guard has great student loan repayment, but not accession/signing bonuses. You need to go active to get that.

 

[EsTxDr]

Great information as always.

I appreciate all the help. Now to track down my AMEDD recruiter.

 

[Logically]

A few other questions if I may?

1. Do you know of a good resource or list of medical ARNG units by state?
2. Do you know of a recent list of AMEDD recruier contact info? I have been unable to get a response from anyone.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.

1. What states are you looking at? MOST states do have a list, but they can be an absolute pain in the rear to find.
2. Message LT. Col. Matthe Richie. He is NOT an AMEDD recruiter nor a Doctor, but he can put you in contact with a good AMEDD recruiter in your area. Just let him know you've reached out to a few and they aren't responding back and that you'd like his help in geting in contact. Be polite and professional and he'll help.

 

[EsTxDr]

1. What states are you looking at? MOST states do have a list, but they can be an absolute pain in the rear to find.
2. Message LT. Col. Matthe Richie. He is NOT an AMEDD recruiter nor a Doctor, but he can put you in contact with a good AMEDD recruiter in your area. Just let him know you've reached out to a few and they aren't responding back and that you'd like his help in geting in contact. Be polite and professional and he'll help.

1) I'm applying regionally so Texas and possibly a few of the surrounding states, mainly Louisiana. I'm not opposed to drilling out of state if things worked out that way. I've had a very hard time finding anything online.

2) Thanks for the contact, I've seen his posts over at the guard forum. I'll give my recent contacts a little bit of time and then I'll reach out to him if needed. I appreciate it.

 

[USCguy]

I took the STRAP stipend during residency. I elected to start taking it in January of intern year. it is a 1 year for 6 month commitment, so I end up owing them 5 years post residency (fulfilling the 8 year commitment). I took the money up front instead of waiting. I saw $25,000/year while making $45,000 as a resident as more beneficial than $25,000/year while making $200,000/year after residency. I'm taking the $40,000 loan payment this year (PGY 3). Now, the downside is that I will be in drilling status all 8 years (no option for IRR the last two years); however, in my current medical unit drill is not a big deal. I could definitely think of other stuff to do one weekend a month, but it really isn't that bad. I know all units are different, and if you somehow get attached to a line unit, you may end up in the field in the rain all weekend - but thats not been my experience.

The other downside is waiting out the STRAP payback before continuing HPLR. At the end of the day, you can't have it all. If you were in a long residency, say gen surg, then you could get the loans paid off while a resident (but you would owe some big time (~12 years) in payback.

The bottomline for me was that $25k helps a lot right now, and I doubt it would make a large difference once I'm an attending.

 

[harvardslacker]

I can't add anything to notdeadyet's typically thorough discussion of the complicated system of incentives, which at some point I gave up trying to understand myself. However, I have two small points to add about training:

1. If you're a fourth year medical student about to start residency, I would strongly consider joining now, rather than in residency, and getting your basic officer training (BOLC) out of the way during some of the free months I presume you will have this year, rather than waiting until residency. They may just let you postpone it until after residency, in which case the only downsides would be that you might be forced to stay a lieutenant or something (I don't know if you can be a captain with an MD but no BOLC...) and that you might understand less about basic Army stuff like how to wear your uniform. (Big potential caveat: make sure you understand all those incentives and that you're not missing out on anything by joining prior to becoming an MD. I assume you'd have a few months drilling as a medical student, slightly shortening your post-residency commitment, during which time you wouldn't be deployed. Then when you got your MD you'd get re-commissioned as a CPT, and could elect to take whichever incentives you're hoping for. But as I said, I don't understand the ins and outs of the incentives.)

2. As notdeadyet says, you can get credit for drill (called a SUTA) for doing things like going to conferences or perhaps for various other things like attending an ACLS course or maybe even doing some normal part of your residency duties. As I write this, I am actually on orders spending the weekend at a conference and getting credit (and pay) for it. That said, I got a call the day before I got on the plane to this conference with lots of questions from a high ranking officer at the National Guard Bureau asking me why this should qualify for training, and the only reason I'm here is because my NCOIC (non-commissioned officer in charge) went to bat for me and knew how to justify this particular type of training. I didn't know until about 2 hours before my flight that I'd be able to go, and I was presenting an abstract at this conference. So the bottom line is that not only can things like this change as policies change, but you can't really rely on any particular interpretation of the current policies. So you should be comfortable with the idea that you might be spending two golden days off per month in residency drilling with the Army, and then be grateful if you end up in a situation that is more flexible.

 

[EsTxDr]

I'm moving ahead with this and would love to get y'all's thoughts on something else. As harvardslacker mentioned in the last post I was thinking of joining now (before graduation) just to get a few months in and possibly get officer basic training out of the way.

My question is knowing the speed and efficiency the military moves, is it worth trying to get this done before graduation? I graduate in May, so if this takes 5 months to complete (totally random number there), I'll have under 2 months as a med student (2LT) before having to go through the process of recommissioning as an MD (CPT). Is it worth the two months to go through that process? (I'm non-prior service so this is all new to me). Is the recommissioning process long/difficult? Is it worth doing just to have a few months under my belt? I know its a personal decision and I'll make it as such, but would love to hear your thoughts on it.

Also consider having to contact residency programs (or at least where I match) and update that I now have a military responsibility. Not knowing 100% where I'll actually end up until match day in March this year, etc.

I'm trying to find what the benefit to joining before graduation actually is now. Sure I could get BOLC out of the way (maybe) but even that is questionable.

Would love to hear thoughts from those who have experience with the process.

 

[notdeadyet]

harvardslacker has some great advice about getting BOLC under your belt before heading off into residency. It's definitely worth getting done.

That said, in your particular case, it would be a REAL stretch to get that sorted out.

First off, you need to get commissioned. From the time you tell the recruiter "let's do this" to the time you raise your hand and swear in, you're looking at 3-6 months, assuming you don't have any waivers. Most folks I helped sign on took 4 months minimum. After that, you'll need to get an approval for BOLC, they'll need to find a course offering that finishes before July 1st, and hope that it has vacancies (the BOLC short course only runs a handful times per year). You'll have to also enroll in and complete the 40 hour distance learning course first (assuming this is still in effect).

This is a lot of if's. You can probably make things very easy by asking your recruiter to check out ATRRS (he'll know it) and find out what the dates are for the 27 day BOLC courses in Spring and if they have any vacancies. If there aren't any, you've answered your own question. If there are, see what your recruiter thinks about timelines.

The advantages of hurrying to join as a medical student are the longshot of getting BOLC done. That's about all that comes to mind. If you don't join, you will likely have to do BOLC during residency. If you go to a public university residency, most have military leave as part of your contract (they may need to dig around to discover this fact, as mine did). Most programs have up to 30 days military leave. You only have so long to do BOLC, so you can consider this manadatory service and have your CO write you a letter to this effect.

That's about it for advantages. For disadvantages, you are ethically obligated to tell residency programs of your military obligations. You are also probably legally obligated, as you are changing your status from when you applied via ERAS. This will really highlight your military obligations and make it more prominent on your application. Probably not a big deal, but still.

Anyway, call your recruiter (if he's working) and ask him whether there are even BOLC classes available in the Spring. If not, it's largely a moot point.

 

[EsTxDr]

NDY, as always thanks for your response. That is precisely what I've been concerned about. Great advise in checking vacancies this spring. My recruiter is working now so she will be checking this week.

I'm looking forward to getting this all done. Thanks so much for all your help and advice Notdeadyet, you have been a big help.

 

[notdeadyet]

Any time. Keep us posted on the thread how it goes.

 

[USCguy]

I contacted a recruiter during December of my 4th year. It was my home state who said they could swear me in the day I graduated as a captain. I ranked a program in another state top on my list so I contacted a recruiter there. I met with them soon after match day. It took forever to get through the process. I was finally able to swear in in November. You have 36 months to do BOLC while in strap and can apply for up to a 36 month extension after that. I have been asked several times when I am going to bolc, an I reply that I will go when I finish residency. That has sufficed so far.

The down side is I came in and was somewhat out if sorts with military customs. However, as you are likely to be in a medical unit with a bunch of officers who walk around with hands in pockets, they will give you guidance on how to act if you are humble and let them know you aren't prior service. I went ahead an apologized in advance for calling people the wrong thing the first day I showed up at drill. My first AT was a little nerve racking too going to a range for the first time, shooting a M16 and breaking down a M9 for te first time. However, I learned a lot and got through it.

 

[EsTxDr]

Well that works out well since I only applied to 36 month programs. lol

I like the idea of swearing in day of graduation, thats a cool idea. My main concern is customs and courtesies. I'm non-prior service and would love to be educated in that asap. I'm kind of the opposite as far as the range and all goes. I can break down an M16 like a champ I still will have spent more time on the range than in the hospital at that point haha.

Thanks for all the responses guys, I'll keep y'all updated on how it goes.

 

[EsTxDr]

Any time. Keep us posted on the thread how it goes.

Anyone have the newest ARNG AMEDD Officer Accession SOP?
I've been reading through this one but didn't know if there was a more recent one.

 

[EsTxDr]

Any time. Keep us posted on the thread how it goes.

Getting close to the one year mark and still radio silence from ARNG. I haven't even been able to complete the process.

 

[DeadCactus]

Who are you working with? Don't waste your time at the national level. Your state has someone sitting around being paid and judged on how many physicians they can bring into the Guard. Find that person. The bureaucracy should take awhile but there shouldn't be any prolonged radio silence...

 

[notdeadyet]

Who are you working with? Don't waste your time at the national level. Your state has someone sitting around being paid and judged on how many physicians they can bring into the Guard. Find that person. The bureaucracy should take awhile but there shouldn't be any prolonged radio silence...

Agree with this. Call 800-GO-GUARD and they will be more than happy to put you in touch with you "AMEDD Officer Recruiter." Find that individual and they will be happy to speak to you and incented to sign you.

 

[EsTxDr]

Been working with my states AMEDD recruiter for nearly a year now. Been through MEPS, finished paperwork, then things stalled out with references from a couple physicians at my old med school. The technician kept emailing asking for them to be resent due to fax machine problems, scanned crooked, etc. Now I can't get either the recruiter or the tech to respond.

Frustrating to say the least.

 

[EsTxDr]

Any suggestions from you guys? I'm still interested and I've now finished med school and started residency. Would love to get this completed asap. Contacted the national guard and the only name they have for my states amedd recruiter is who I've been working with. *sigh*

The army reserves recruiter was breaking down my door.

 

[EsTxDr]

@notdeadyet or anyone else, got a question. Yes, I'm still in the long process of pursuing my commission. Its basically done and I decide to go after a fellowship. Getting some confusion from the Guard about how doing a fellowship changes my commitment and depolyable status. I'm non-deploy in residency but if I add a fellowship am I still in a non-deploy slot? I'm an EM resident so my fellowship would only be one year. Any thoughts, experiences?

 

[notdeadyet]

Fellowship is decided on a case-by-case basis. It likely varies by state, but for most, they will try not to deploy you during a one year fellowship and you are instead next up immediately after. However, if they are desperate, they can still pull you. Of course, if they are desperate they can pull you from residency too after you're licensed. I haven't heard of that happening.

So you still haven't commissioned? If not, if you're rally worried about being activated out of fellowship, why not wait to join until post-fellowship?

 

[EsTxDr]

Fellowship is decided on a case-by-case basis. It likely varies by state, but for most, they will try not to deploy you during a one year fellowship and you are instead next up immediately after. However, if they are desperate, they can still pull you. Of course, if they are desperate they can pull you from residency too after you're licensed. I haven't heard of that happening.

So you still haven't commissioned? If not, if you're rally worried about being activated out of fellowship, why not wait to join until post-fellowship?

Thanks. No, still haven't commissioned. Lots of radio silence from recruiters, then finally got things complete and they changed the form numbers ... need to complete the new forms before it can go to the board. ugh.

I've been considering post fellowship now that its this far in. Only benefit to joining now is to eat up a little service time so I have less commitment after residency/fellowship. Being non-prior I want to take the smallest bite I can before making large commitments in case it just doesn't fit with my family. Also, I'm not getting any younger. Would certainly have to do METS again if I wait and I'll be older, fatter, and less healthy by then. Actually getting that way by the minute these days. Mountain of paperwork completed is a good incentive to go ahead now.

 

[EsTxDr]

Fellowship is decided on a case-by-case basis. It likely varies by state, but for most, they will try not to deploy you during a one year fellowship and you are instead next up immediately after. However, if they are desperate, they can still pull you. Of course, if they are desperate they can pull you from residency too after you're licensed. I haven't heard of that happening.

So you still haven't commissioned? If not, if you're rally worried about being activated out of fellowship, why not wait to join until post-fellowship?

So I put the hold on all of this after considering a fellowship, now I've decided not to pursue a fellowship and getting close to my third (and final) year in residency and considering strongly STRAP + HPLRP this last year of residency.
If i recall correctly I take both this last year, serve out obligation for STRAP (two years) whole not taking HPLRP and then am eligible for HPLRP again if desired. That sound about right?
Any problems moonlighting a as a resident while officially commissioned?

 

[notdeadyet]

If i recall correctly I take both this last year, serve out obligation for STRAP (two years) whole not taking HPLRP and then am eligible for HPLRP again if desired. That sound about right?

Yes, but only if the specialty you are training in is on the critical warfare shortage list. I haven't seen the current one.

Any problems moonlighting a as a resident while officially commissioned?

Nope. This is the beauty of the Reserve Corps. The Army owns your a$$ part-time only (til deployment). They have no direct voice on your civilian career.

 

[EsTxDr]

Yes, but only if the specialty you are training in is on the critical warfare shortage list. I haven't seen the current one.

Nope. This is the beauty of the Reserve Corps. The Army owns your a$$ part-time only (til deployment). They have no direct voice on your civilian career.

Nice. I'm emergency so I'm sure its on there, I'll double check.

 

[notdeadyet]

Emergency Medicine is not on the Critical Shortage list for ARNG. It hasn't been for a while (lots of EM docs in the Army).

That said, some states will look past that for the sake of getting you HPLRP and STRAP concurrently if you agree to take a Field Surgeon slot while you are in residency. Which is fine, since that's what you'll primarily be slotted into since the Guard does not have EM docs as such.

 

[EsTxDr]

Emergency Medicine is not on the Critical Shortage list for ARNG. It hasn't been for a while (lots of EM docs in the Army).

That said, some states will look past that for the sake of getting you HPLRP and STRAP concurrently if you agree to take a Field Surgeon slot while you are in residency. Which is fine, since that's what you'll primarily be slotted into since the Guard does not have EM docs as such.

Interesting, very different than I was told going through the process thus far. Maybe its my state doing what you mentioned. I'll have to check into it, thanks for the info!
So field surgeon slot in residency meaning drilling and depolyable? What is the significance of taking that slot that would make them overlook the critical shortage list?

 

[notdeadyet]

Interesting, very different than I was told going through the process thus far. Maybe its my state doing what you mentioned. I'll have to check into it, thanks for the info!

They might be. I would just ask the specifically and try to get it in writing. You don't want to join and then get a shrug when you try to put in for HPLRP and STRAP concurrently and told you have to wait a year.

So field surgeon slot in residency meaning drilling and depolyable? What is the significance of taking that slot that would make them overlook the critical shortage list?

I wasn't very clear. Think of slots as job openings that need to be filled.

There are slots for EM docs in the active Army because they have ERs. The Reserve Army has them because they have hospitals (and presumably ERs).

The Guard is primarily combat and combat support. Since we don't have hospitals, we don't have ERs and therefore don't have a need for dedicated EM slots. But battalions and brigades have doctors assigned, which are "Field Surgeon" slots. These can be filled by most docs and this is where most docs in the Guard get assigned. Docs who are in the Guard who are prohibited from filling these slots (like pathologists or radiologists) tend to get transferred to the Reserve.

So as an EM doc, they would likely put you in a Field Surgeon slot where you would function in a primary care type role (though they'll love your EM background as you will be dealing with the occasional emergency). What this means your drill will look like, I can't really say (I'm a psychiatrist). In the Guard, some of these folks do shot missions and physicals, others are out with the infantry manning the aid tent and sleeping in dirt.

You will not be deployable in residency, regardless of your slot. As to your drilling question, I have heard about states where medical students don't drill. If they are telling you that you won't be drilling as a resident, I'd get that in writing. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't want a licensed doc drilling, since there is a lot you can actually do. That said, I'm in a state that is a lot stricter and busy than most, so I may be projecting.

 

[EsTxDr]

Good information as always, thanks!
Sounds like the field surgeon slot fits more with my interests in the Guard anyway. Boy we could use some better education and information with our AMEDD recruiters.

 

[EsTxDr]

@notdeadyet one other question. So you are non-deployable until you complete officer basic right? So does that mean your payback of incentives doesn't start until you take officer basic? Because you can delay it for a couple years due to residency, etc. IIRC.